[Top Agency Series] How Branding Shapes Business Trajectories With Dylan Staniul of Burnkit

Dylan Staniul is the Principal and Design Team Leader of Burnkit, a design studio known for its creative and investigative approach to branding. With over two decades of experience, Dylan has judged prestigious design competitions for publications including Communication Arts, Applied Arts, and Strategy and garnered the trust of industry giants. His diverse client experiences have turned Burnkit into a success story, emphasizing the harmony of classic design principles with fresh, innovative ideas. Beyond branding, Dylan draws inspiration from various sources, including history, art, and the varied industries of his clients.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

• [03:53] Dylan Staniul shares how he incorporates his father’s sales wisdom into the design and branding world
• [06:26] How to internalize and bounce back from rejection in a professional setting
• [15:10] Burnkit’s customer success stories
• [18:24] The creative process from discovery to delivering multiple branding options for client consideration
• [21:38] Dylan elaborates on starting with a wide array of design explorations and narrowing down to the final concept 
• [24:38] Common branding mistakes and the distinction between brand and marketing
• [27:22] Why Dylan chose to start a design agency
• [29:42] The origin behind the unique name “Burnkit” and the company’s omnivorous approach to client industries 
• [32:19] Why innovation is often found at the intersection of different industries or disciplines
• [37:14] Dylan discusses his sources of inspiration and the importance of continually seeking new experiences

In this episode…

Have you ever wondered why brands that seem to be doing well still opt for a makeover? Is it possible that a successful track record might hold back an organization’s brand identity? How do branding experts breathe new life into already thriving companies?

Dylan Staniul, a brand design expert, delves into the fine art of branding and the process behind transforming the identity of successful organizations. Discussing the importance of the initial discovery phase, he emphasizes the importance of involving decision-makers early on and preparing clients for a wide range of creative possibilities. The conversation pivots to dissecting common brands’ mistakes and how keeping it simple can often be more effective than trying to “wow” at every opportunity. Dylan also shares his entrepreneurial journey and why being a “design omnivore” has become a distinctive strength for his studio.

In this episode of Inspired Insider Podcast, host Dr. Jeremy Weisz interviews Dylan Staniul, Principal and Design Team Leader of Burnkit, about the power of branding and the creative process. Dylan shares how he incorporates his father’s sales wisdom into the design and branding world, Burnkit’s customer success stories, the creative process from discovery to delivering multiple branding options for client consideration, and how to avoid common branding mistakes.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• Dylan Staniul on LinkedIn
• Burnkit

Special Mention(s):

• 80/20 Sales and Marketing: The Definitive Guide to Working Less and Making More by Perry Marshall

Related episode(s):

• “[Top Giver Series] The Power of Video Storytelling to Transform Your Business with Ian Garlic of StoryCrews” on the Inspired Insider Podcast
• “How to Set and Achieve Goals With Ian Garlic, Founder of Video Case Story” on the Inspired Insider Podcast
• “[Sweet Process Series] How to Save Hundreds of Hours a Month Using Top Productivity Tools with Adi Klevit of Business Success Consulting Group” on the Inspired Insider Podcast
• “Does God Exist? with Perry Marshall, author of Evolution 2.0” on the Inspired Insider Podcast

Quotable Moments:

• “You might have the greatest ideas, but if you can’t convince anybody about a brand idea you have, then it may as well be in the garbage.”
• “It’s like a ping pong match; you can’t just expect your first shot is going to be the one.”
• “Brand informs marketing. It’s like the thing that holds the center.”
• “You have to be ready to try a lot of things.”
• “Speaking up and identifying what’s unusual is part of the process.”

Action Steps:

1. Embrace both classic principles and innovative designs to keep your brand relevant and unique: This blend allows for a strong foundation while still pushing the boundaries, ensuring your brand resonates with a dynamic audience.
2. Diversify inspiration by tapping into various industries, not just your own: Drawing inspiration from outside your industry can lead to breakthrough innovations.
3. Prepare stakeholders for brand evolution to mitigate resistance and garner support: Introducing change as a collaborative journey can help ease uncertainty and encourage stakeholders to embrace new branding strategies.
4. Focus on communication skills to effectively convey your branding ideas to clients and teams: Being able to articulate and sell creative concepts is crucial for gaining buy-in and moving projects forward.
5. Incorporate daily activities that fuel creativity to keep your perspective fresh: Engaging in varied pursuits, like listening to new genres of music or changing routines, stimulates creative thinking that can translate into innovative work.

Episode Transcript

Intro 0:15 

You are listening to Inspired Insider with your host, Dr Jeremy Weisz.

Jeremy Weisz 0:22 

Dr Jeremy Weisz here, founder of inspiredinsider.com, where I talk with inspirational entrepreneurs and leaders today, is no different. I have Dylan Staniul of Burnkit and Dylan, before I formally introduce you, I always like to point out other episodes people should check out. Since this is part of the top agency series, some of the fan favorites. We had Ian Garlic on he started Video Case Story, and basically helps capture customer stories for companies. It was interesting because he grew up in an entrepreneurial household. His dad had a restaurant, and you’ll like this Dylan, because you’re super creative. His dad had live dolphins in the restaurant. Now, I lived in Orlando. That’s still strange to have live dolphins in a restaurant, but at the time of that, that restaurant was in Wisconsin. So can you imagine having lived you go to a restaurant in Wisconsin and see live dolphins, I can’t, maybe Vegas, Orlando.

Dylan Staniul 1:17 

The dolphins weren’t on the menu. Were they?

Jeremy Weisz 1:19 

Not, exactly. They were not reading them. They were not on the menu.

Dylan Staniul 1:24 

Even in Wisconsin, that’s out of line.

Jeremy Weisz 1:28 

So I just like hearing creative ideas in marketing, and we’ll talk about your creative ideas for branding. But that was an interesting one. Another one was Adi Klevit. Adi Klevit, her agency specialized in SOPs, the non-sexy things that make things work. So people call her when they want an easy button for their SOPs and they want to smooth out client process, and we’ll talk about process on this one, but client process, hiring process, any operational things, and we geeked out on our favorite productivity tools. And so I highly recommend that episode as well. And this episode is brought to you by Rise25. At Rise25 we help businesses give to and connect to their dream relationships and partnerships. And how do we do that? We do that by helping you run your podcast.

We’re an easy button for a company to launch and run a podcast. We do the strategy, which is the most important, the accountability and also the full execution. So we call ourselves kind of the magic elves that run in the background and make it look easy for the host so they can create amazing content, develop amazing relationships, and most importantly, focus on running their business. For me, the number one thing in my life is relationships, and I’m always looking at ways to give first and keep giving to my relationships. And I found no better way, over the past decade, to profile the people and companies I most admire and share with the world what they’re working on. So if you’ve thought about podcasting, you definitely should. If you have questions, go to rise25.com or email us at [email protected].

And I’m excited to introduce Dylan Staniul. He’s a branding veteran. He’s principal at Burnkit. And Burnkit is the design studio they founded in 2000 right? 2000 to me doesn’t seem like that long ago, but when you’re like, wait, we’re a couple decades in. So his insightful we’re gonna talk about his creative process, kind of investigates and explores how your brand can be uniquely expressed. And Dylan has also judged some of the most prestigious design competitions for publications, including Communication Arts, Applied Arts and Strategy. And like I said, he’s been doing this work for a couple decades. So Dylan, thanks for joining me.

Dylan Staniul 3:53 

Thank you for having me. Yeah, 2000 for young designers, that’s ancient history, but we’ve been doing it a long time. I have a dad story for you, if you want. You want to start off with something oblique like that, but since you mentioned that. My dad was in sales, and so I always remember that aspect about being able to communicate with people. So even though I took a different path and ended up in design and brand, I always tell young designers, speaking of them to not underestimate the power of being able to sell what it is you’re interested in talking about. You might have the greatest ideas, but if you can’t convince anybody about a brand idea that you have, then it may as well be in the garbage. So you have to live up to that side of your skill set as well. So just a little something that I think about every day.

Jeremy Weisz 4:48 

Dylan, what is some key advice your dad gave you about selling?

Dylan Staniul 4:54 

Well, first thing he said, when you start your own business, he goes “get an American Express card.” That’s the first thing he told me to do.

Jeremy Weisz 5:02 

Even if you’re in Canada,

Dylan Staniul 5:04 

Oh yeah, yeah, it’s a worldwide thing.

Jeremy Weisz 5:07 

They need a Canadian Express card.

Dylan Staniul 5:10 

Oh well, don’t leave home without it, right? But he wasn’t a preacher in that way. It was more through osmosis. I could just see things that were important. He was a broker for different kinds of food lines and food service, and so a lot of selling, a lot of face to face, a lot of calls, a lot of that kind of thing. So I just learned that you have to be ready to go and meet a lot of people and not be afraid of rejection sometimes. And that helps me every day, when you want to talk about something that’s unusual or present concepts that maybe clients haven’t even imagined like you have to be ready to have some feedback that isn’t always perfect. And that’s part of the process. That’s what they’re engaging with you for, is to go somewhere that they otherwise they would have done it themselves.

Jeremy Weisz 6:04 

This is a great topic. How do you internalize rejection, because it happens so much all around us. And I noticed some people really it affects them, and some people it rolls off of them. So how do you internally when you get rejection, what are you thinking about, and how do you handle that internally?

Dylan Staniul 6:26 

I think it’s really something that is super important to balance well. You have to have self-awareness. You have to understand when something you’ve done maybe isn’t right. So when you get that rejection, that means something, but you also have to balance that with a confidence of will that allows you to try something else. That may be even harder, like fighting for one idea is one thing, but picking yourself back up and trying something else, that’s another aspect of confidence and creativity. You have to be able to do that all the time. You can never be down. It’s like a ping pong match, like you can’t just expect your first shot is going to be the one. You’re there for the long haul in these relationships with a creative partner. So I remember that. I think about that every day. Yeah, that’s super important. Yeah.

Jeremy Weisz 7:17 

I think some of the most successful people I know are super persistent, and sometimes they don’t even hear rejection, like they don’t even see it as rejection, sometimes, like they hear and they get a no, and you just see them move forward as if there wasn’t a no, almost sometimes. So, I don’t know if that’s how you saw or how your dad, you saw him, or what he said, or what you saw him, how he handled rejection.

Dylan Staniul 7:46 

I think that there’s something to that. I think that’s it. You have to let certain things roll off your back and you’ve got your eye on the ball. And if that isn’t going to get you there, there’s another way. There’s another path to get there, and that might mean deciding what a good relationship is, let’s say, in work as a client, agent relationship, but it also might mean another way to get to that one idea that you have in mind for that client, or it might mean deciding you’re not going to work with that particular partner anymore. It might not be a good relationship, so you have to recognize those things too and be ready to move on. But it’s definitely not an all or nothing approach. You have to be ready to try a lot of things.

Jeremy Weisz 8:33 

Yeah, no. I could think of a lot of cases when it comes to business, but also when it comes to personal stuff as well. And I feel like sometimes it comes down to a self-confidence thing. Like, if someone could be someone’s asking someone on a date or whatever, and they get rejected, and it’s like, well, you could really internalize that and beat up yourself. Or if someone has maybe self-confidence, it’s like, well, they’re missing out, or maybe it’s my own fault. I didn’t put my best foot forward when I was handling that situation too. I could have done better.

Dylan Staniul 9:13 

Right. I think the key is all those could be true in one person, that’s not one type of person or a different type of person. Everyone’s experienced every one of those situations you just described. And I think when you’re out there in the world sharing your ideas with people, you have to be ready for any one of those possible scenarios to come up. And the key is to transcend those and not let any kind of a bump, kind of get you down. You have to kind of stay on this path. So I think creative people, though, and that can go outside of the realm of work that I do, but they just have to do this, they’ve decided that they’re going to stick their neck out and get it chopped off over and over again. So I think that’s just part of it. It’s part of the joy of being creative.

Jeremy Weisz 10:04 

Talk about maybe a client situation where, again, like you’re creative, you’re presenting ideas to clients, and they may just hate it off the bat, where was a, and by the way, if you’re listening to the audio, since this is obviously we’re talking about design and creativity, we have to show the websites we’re on, burnkit.com, here. But what was an example or a story you remember where you came in and they just hated it, but you presented it, and maybe you slowly won them over time. Because when you present a change, people don’t like, change, like, you change something that they had to something else, right? Like, take my glasses. Like, I got new glasses. My wife is being nice. She says, yeah, I like them. I’m like, I know you hate them, because I was used to wearing a different kind for 10 years, and so, I guarantee she was nice about it, because she’s super nice. But inside she’s thinking, this is so weird, I don’t like it. It just is our natural instinct. So what was the case for you with a client where that happened?

Dylan Staniul 11:15 

Well, people who can’t see, sorry, but the image you have up is some exploration work for Electronic Arts. And in cases like this, we’re looking at new brand concepts and imagining what a brand could be. And so I think the key and to pick up on what you were saying about people aren’t sure about change, or they’re skeptical of change, and they should be, is to prepare them for that experience. Part of our job is to create an engaging environment where people realize they’re going to be inspired. And you might say something quite literally as, look when you come in, you’re going to see some things you love, you’re going to see some things you hate, you’re going to see some things and say, Dylan, like, what the hell is this? Yeah, that’s the path we’re going down, in initial creative presentations, that’s the scenario you want to try and build up. Is that this is going to be a moment where we’re not asking you to decide on anything. We’re asking you to try some things on, try on that new pair of glasses. Maybe these aren’t forever you could explain to your wife, but I’m trying them on so it’s not a do or die situation.

Jeremy Weisz 12:36 

I don’t change glasses every 10 years, so you better like them, right? So what you say is probably better, so yeah, I should go with that.

Dylan Staniul 12:47 

That’s a high pressure moment for her, because she’s got to make a choice because it’s once every 10 years. So even though a brand exercise might only happen once every 10 years for the core brand of an organization that is high pressure, I try and lower the stakes at the beginning of the creative process and explain to people that anything goes right now. You can say anything you like. We can take anything back. And what that does is people let their guard down. They start to have some fun with things. They realize they can speak up and they can tell me that they hate something, and I’m not going to fall over and you start to find out what people are really interested and they gravitate towards certain things that they might have never imagined before. So yeah.

Jeremy Weisz 13:33 

What you do is really difficult, because it’s very subjective. And one thing you could love it, and you bring it in someone’s like, and one thing you do, it looks like, is you create a bunch of options for people. So, like, there’s not just one love it or hate it, but there’s a bunch of options so they can kind of maybe gravitate towards what they like. But it is difficult because it’s subjective, so I mean, probably the team members disagree I imagine.

Dylan Staniul 14:05 

They can, and I think some of what you’re saying and some of the images that we share too, and just a little secret I’ll let people in on, is that some of that open endedness is premeditated. It’s part of the process, if you’d like, but we do have some sense of an outcome that we want sometimes. But what we’re trying to do is allow people to follow us through an arc of thinking. So we might go, here’s a wild idea, and here’s another one. Here’s something a little bit closer to home that you might be familiar with. Let’s walk through these and see where we feel good about things, and people do that with you, and then they realize that you know what, this isn’t such a subjective process.

There is some logic to it, and I can find a way to express what I like about these options, even though I know nothing about design as a professional, you see what I mean? I’m trying to provide an opportunity for my clients, and especially when we’re talking to, let’s say, a director of marketing or a principal of some kind that needs to lead their team through a process like this, to give them the confidence that they could bring a group of people in who might be skeptical in some ways, or might have their own preconceived notions about what this is going to be like, and go, wow, that was valuable. We got to talk about some great things, and I think we got somewhere. So it is trying to create a non-subjective environment for people to express what they think about, what their brand could be.

Jeremy Weisz 15:35 

We’re looking here, if someone is watching the video, we’re looking at the burnkit.com and this is Electronic Arts, some work that you did for Electronic Arts, and we see a bunch of what was this project about?

Dylan Staniul 15:54 

This project was called EA Create, and what that is, is an internal team of thousands of people within the organization in different spots around the globe, and a dozen or more different studios and offices that we needed to brand to create an entity that would have more of a brand cohesion than it did otherwise. So all these disparate studios got to be part of something larger, and it helped them define what their role was within the greater organization. So that’s sometimes an important thing to do within a larger organizations, to define groups within give them their identity, where it’s valuable and helps them do their work better. So yeah, this is a case where EA created a simple naming process of giving them something that was distinct within the overarching brand, and then showing how we could articulate how these different offices and studios with different roles and skill sets could come together into something shared. So hence these different graphic C emblems that you see that live in this larger family.

Jeremy Weisz 17:11 

So in this situation, it’s interesting, because originally, when I was looking through this, I was saying, okay, which one’s the winner? But it seems like all of them are the winner, in the sense of, there’s this main one on top, if you’re looking here, there’s like a main one, but then there’s divisions, right? So you have create animation, create applied research. So these are actually just or create capture. These are all winners within the divisions. Is that accurate?

Dylan Staniul 17:44 

That’s right. And I think you’re touching on something that was important in this project, that was maybe the underlying subtext. How do we create winners out of all these creative people with their own ideas about what their unique qualities are? How are we going to get them to come together into something? And we did that by allowing them to have their own autonomy through their own unique emblem, even though they shared a type of graphic structure and they shared a general look and feel. So yeah, it was a process of herding a lot of cats into something cohesive.

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