Jeremy Weisz 8:00

I want to hear you know, Peter, from the beginning, the initial, what Commit Action looks like in the beginning, and then evolution what it looks like, now. But I love what you said. So what’s holding people back when you’re saying they’re isolated, and they don’t have the proper amount of accountability or community? Is that what you would say? is a big thing? Yeah.

Peter Shallard 8:24

I think and i think that i think it’s very invisible to most people that this is what’s holding them back. Like I think that there’s a very common experience people have of sort of wondering why they’re not more like Elon Musk, like why can’t they step it up and run SpaceX and Tesla and the boring company and neuro link and like, you know, kind of do it all and be this renaissance man of like a, you know, like this amazing entrepreneur who clearly has a morning ritual involving green juice and meditation, that just makes him into like a superhuman, right? Like, what, what is the secret? I think we read books about these people. We read the Steve Jobs biography, we you know, we do all that stuff. And, and, and we, we, we disappoint ourselves by comparison. But what I think a lot of people fail to understand is the environment that they’re operating in. They don’t like they sort of say to themselves in their basement in their PJs, kind of bootstrapping and working away on their laptop to build this thing. They’re like, why and I’m all like, Ilan. Yeah, the reason that you’re more like Ilan is that not more like him is that he’s surrounded by a web of advisors and coaches and investors and direct report executives who earn multimillion dollar salaries who are all singularly like focused on having him show up and be in the zone and be able to do his thing, the you know, work in his zone of genius and that level of social accountability and support unlocks, you know, incredible performance and almost anyone, by choosing to start stuff by being an entrepreneur, we take a withdrawal of that away, and basically try to go and go and build in a total vacuum. And, and and yeah, like I said, I’m forgetting what your original question was. But

Jeremy Weisz 10:05

no, it was just like, Yeah, what’s holding people back? And I just wanted to point out, you mentioned isolation, accountability and community. It was anything, right?

Peter Shallard 10:14

Yeah. The lifeline. And that’s what we focus on is providing that lifeline of accountability to entrepreneurs who would otherwise be isolated. Because I mean, there’s certainly loads of different things that hold people back. But you’re going to work through any challenge you face Foster, if you’ve got if you’ve got that lifeline of accountability in your life, because yeah, as humans, we tend to outsource or sell our mental well being and our optimization to the tribe.

Jeremy Weisz 10:40

So I want to say anyone who’s listening to this podcast, and you’re not watching it, Peter is in a backyard. So you may hear the sounds of nature in the background. He’s not in his typical New York place. So just so you know. And if you’re wondering, there’s whistling in the wind, so I’m sort of jealous that you’re in 70 degree weather in winter.

Peter Shallard 11:04

Not too obnoxious is that the sun just came out a little bit in the cicadas.

Jeremy Weisz 11:08

That’s what I that’s what I hear. I did not know what that was like. The cicadas. Okay. So what’s something comparable? Here? Okay. comparable would be, you know, when I picture accountability for health, okay. And I guess two people use this for business and health, are people using Commit Action in your team, and your coaches for business related things? Because I guess the equivalent? Yeah, go ahead. Yeah,

Peter Shallard 11:36

that’s a good question. I’d say we’re holistic, but our goal is business optimization, like business results. But we believe that like, we’re also playing the long game with our clients, like we don’t, we don’t as so what we what we do is basically accountability, performance coaching, we help people get more focused double their productivity, like by having really clear weekly plans that they, you know, that they commit to with an accountability coach, kind of like having a concierge be your to do list or a personal trainer for productivity. Now, we’re playing the long game, which means if our clients burn out, after two months of the most furious Fast and Furious productivity of their lives, we’re failed. So health, wellness, balance, all of that is actually part of holistic optimization. And it’s one of our big pillars that we actually really focus on, in addition to ideas like, you know, specificity, getting the right level of implementation granularity for all of the things you’re working on, which is a problem people struggle with, when they’re kind of making plans with a whiteboard, just by themselves. We also have this idea of, we just call it the pillar of play, we ask our clients, like, you know, what are you doing to not delay gratification, because entrepreneurs in general, and entrepreneurship is a game of delayed gratification, right? Like, I think all of us, everyone who’s listening to this will resonate with that idea of like, at some point, and why might have been when you were really young might have been later in life, you kind of come to this place where you’re like, if I work really hard, and take a shot at this thing. Now, while my friends are off, screwing around having fun, I’m going to build this thing. And then five years from now, I’m going to have the jetski and the bathtub of champagne, and like whatever else and then I’ll show them right

Jeremy Weisz 13:15

you’re speaking to me Peter, keep going?

Peter Shallard 13:17

Yeah, that bathtub of champagne. Sounds good. Right? Well,

Jeremy Weisz 13:24

no, but I mean, you’re speaking to me, in the sense of we definitely are like, Listen, right now, it’s tough. I’m willing to work long hours, but I know, you know, in X number of years, I’ll be able to relax more than maybe my peers are, who cares about peers, as I’ll be relaxed more, and I’ll have kind of more of the life that I want. So what do you what have you heard, what do people do in the not delay gratification? What have you seen people actually implement because that’s important.

Peter Shallard 13:52

It’s so crucial. And like we try to, we try to find the optimal balance, then again, this is not to like beat the dead horse. But this is the power of accountability. Like when you’re on your own and isolation, pushing yourself, if you’re an entrepreneur, no one’s got bigger expectations for you than you, right? So you’re pushing yourself and you kind of know balance is a thing. And you’re trying to find that like, Okay, well, I’ll take this time off, and I’ll relax, you’re trying to find that sweet spot all on your own. When you have somebody who’s outside the fishbowl who’s like a pro trained professional who’s helping you find that balance, they can pinpoint it much, much quicker. And it’s different for everyone. What we really focus on one of the questions we ask, is almost the it’s not a sort of a clinical term at all. It’s definitely a metaphor, but there’s this really useful idea from old school psychology like Freudian union psychoanalysis, which is the idea of the inner child. What are you doing? I the question I love to ask and our coaches ask sometimes is like when was the last time you did something that your seven year old self would have just been over the moon to do? And a lot of entrepreneurs build because they want freedom and they you know, They are looking to achieve a certain level of lifestyle. But we are good at delayed gratification. And most entrepreneurs only most successful entrepreneurs are actually better at kicking the can down the road and kind of having that that later. And so the thing that we challenge our clients to do when that when we sense that they need balance that connection, as we kind of have them done make a list of like, what did you What did you love to do when you were seven? And then the better question is, what did you wish you could do when seven, then you get to the really good stuff. Because what a lot of people realize is like some of this stuff is well within reach. You know, I remember years ago, we I had a client who had this problem who was building out a multi million dollar business that spat out seven figures of profit, they’re really busy, but one of their dreams was they wanted to learn to fly. And to ultimately, like fly pilot, the private, they wanted to buy a little jet that they could get licensed to fly around and live that kind of lifestyle, and severe delayed gratification. So that takes a long time to do that. One of the breakthroughs that I helped them understand was you can go down and start to work on getting your pilot license. Like I think the introductory class is like $150. And so rather than being a bit stressful, and like almost losing steam and having a crisis of like motivation, because they were so tired after working for 10 years, I was like, hey, look, next Saturday, go take your first pilots, and you got to do that anyway, they don’t let you just hop into the Learjet, you got to start in a little Cessna. And they went and did it and had a blast and started working on it and kind of found some balance instead of working on the 10 year plan. And then I’ll get to have fun actually brought the fun up the minimum viable dosage of fun to the present that refilled them and got them. You know, got them the motivational juice to keep going

Jeremy Weisz 16:50

Peter I love that. Give me another example. I love that because you kind of almost said, Okay, here’s your big goal, but like what’s a small chunk you could actually do that gets you closer to that, but also even fulfill some of it, in a sense in in is maybe just as exciting to do then just think about and wait on. So I love that. Yeah, I want to fly a plane one day own my own job with Well, let’s take a class tomorrow. What’s another good one that you’ve seen people take their minimum viable dose of not delayed gratification.

Peter Shallard 17:26

I mean, one of the it’s less sexy as an example. But one of the things is, is, is just having people understand that they can that they’ve got to carve out time to do the things that they extensively like to do like I am. And and there’s a principle of reducing friction that I think really helps. So I’ll give you an example of this. I, we had a client A while ago who kind of understood this idea. And it was really an like, we asked the question, What did your seven year old self wish she could do? seven year old self was obsessed with motorcycles had posters of motorcycle, white races and stuff all over his bedroom walls, to me was quite a successful entrepreneur. And owned a bunch of bikes like he had a collection lived in New York City and had this garage like everyone does in New York like a little ways away. But he had like six or eight like Ducati keys and like oldest stuff, never drove them the right classic like overworking entrepreneur. And so the conversation we had was about reducing the friction to be able to have those fun experiences. And, and what we came up with was actually he needed to always have a bike out of storage parked outside of where he worked and lived. So that it was just there. And one of the challenges we set was when you feel like when you catch yourself procrastinating, doing whatever it was, was his thing when he kind of like got out of the zone, lost the flow state and started fluffing around. Instead of doing that, just walk downstairs and get on the bike and blast up the Westside highway for 10 minutes, and make that inner seven year old smile. And then when you’re sick of that, come back, like 20 minutes later, whatever, come back and see if you feel like working. And instead of it being this thing where like on a Sunday, if he had time, he would plan and do a major thing and go out on a bike with a friend for five hours. We made it this like everyday mental refresh. And what we’re trying to do, like the psychological principle here is that if your unconscious mind associates work with suffering, you’re not going to want to do it. And what we had to do was inject those those pleasurable moment so that for him working was like a nice overlap and a mix of like, struggle in the service of a long term vision and also like fun and joy and pleasure. And then his unconscious mind started to go Yeah, I can do more of that. And it pulls it out of that.

Jeremy Weisz 19:46

But what was it for you Peter? What was your seven year old self excited to do?

Peter Shallard 19:55

I am I’m a I’m a shame. A shameless video gamer. When I was a kid, I was a dork. I love playing video games. And I still I still do like for me I what I love about it is that it’s very it’s so immediately accessible. It’s very like low friction, right? But yeah, I was I spent for those of you who are keeping score at home and know about this, I spent like the last part of the year and 2020 here, just desperately trying to get a PlayStation five out there in really short supply. But that’s what I really I like I play for minutes a week. It’s not it’s not necessarily a long amount of time, but I love escapism, like I love to. I love to read like a fantasy and science fiction, I love to play games that like take me off to a different place.

Jeremy Weisz 20:42

What’s your favorite game?

Peter Shallard 20:45

Ah, there’s so many I just I finished eating or being becoming a dad, which happened to me a couple years ago, really, to tell my gaming times Exactly. They game Red Dead Redemption two came out just before my son was born. And I finished it took me two years to finish. But I finally finished it, I was amazing.

Jeremy Weisz 21:06

I could totally relate to that, like I’ve been doing hours of research on the Oculus quest two, I think according to this call, I should just go get it. And and do it because it looks amazing.

Peter Shallard 21:19

But actually, if you can connect up what your your professional efforts with, like most rewarding moments where you give yourself something like that it really builds that psychological connection, which is like at the core for everyone, you want to have this mental equation, which is like, the more I work and the more I delay gratification, the more fun my life becomes. And that that cycle has to be there. Otherwise, if it’s not there be there lies burn out.

Jeremy Weisz 21:48

Is there another I love the question about what my seven year old self be excited about? What’s another amazing question that you can ask yourself or other people?

Peter Shallard 22:01

Oh, you’re putting me on the spot. This Sunday?

Jeremy Weisz 22:04

I don’t know if there’s something in like the Commit Action, you know, sequence like you want to make sure okay, you’re the coaches, listen, you need to make sure you ask people this question. Or maybe it’s a point that people get stuck at, in their journey.

Peter Shallard 22:19

A big thing that we do a lot of at Commit Action. So we’re you know, just for your listeners, clarity, we’re meeting with our clients, like our coaches meet without their clients every week, and they make a game plan for the next seven days. It’s like they’ll build out a to do list of the highest leverage highest priority things. And then they’ll actually create like a calendar, which is when like, when are you going to work on those things, let’s set out the idea being we set appointments from meetings with other people were always accountable to we always shot for but we don’t set appointments with ourselves to do the deep game changing work we take that we let that slip in between the cracks of our low leverage couple of days. And it’s like an absurd way of doing things. So we we do the opposite we build out. You know, we make these weekly plans, what they’re going to do you know, what’s the highest leverage thing and when they’re going to work on it. And then the like a thing that we’d like to poke at quite a lot is what’s the what’s the ultimate purpose behind what it is that you that you that you’re working on. Because I think that like a big part of accountability coaching, what we personal training for productivity basically, is making sure that week to week people stay connected with that with highest leverage kind of things that they can be working on. And it’s amazing how much how how often entrepreneurs engage in like a sort of a low level form of self deception about what the best use of their time is.

Jeremy Weisz 23:48

They’re like,

Peter Shallard 23:49

I think we can kind of look we can think about Okay, this is my big plan for the year, this is what I want to accomplish. I’m trying to double revenue, you know, to X number of clients we have or whatever the business goal might be. But it’s amazing how week to week, like at the granular level micro implementation wise, our clients will start really telling the coach like this week, I’ve just got to get to the bottom of my inbox like I need to do that before I can do anything else. And, and we the question we ask is for what purpose? For what purpose? Like, let’s like, okay, you tell you’re telling me this is a priority? For what purpose? Is it a priority? What’s the ultimate intention behind it? And that that is kind of some of the secret sauce of high level accountability is to connect the dots between the little things we think we should do and what our self confessed ultimate aims are, what our ultimate objective is, and what our clients find what every entrepreneur finds is that like, I don’t want to say half the time, but a good chunk of the time, we think we have to do stuff. We think that we’re working on these urgent and important things that are actually not really aligned with our ultimate kind of intention.

Jeremy Weisz 24:58

What are some other excuses. Peter that get in the way, like, you’ve probably heard them all. So I need to get the bottom of my inbox, right? What are the other some excuses that we tell ourselves that we should be aware of? Because in our minds, that’s totally legitimate, well, I have all this stuff. But what you’re saying is, well, what’s the purpose? Right? What are their excuses that we make common ones? You hear?

Peter Shallard 25:22

I think that there’s a lot, there’s a whole mess of stuff around delegation, right? Like a huge one. There’s so many small business owners who and frankly, big business owners, too, who really don’t really, really have control issues, like they, they struggle to be able to let go of certain things. And so they spend a huge amount of time like a half the plateaus that people hit in terms of business growth, a cause by the fact that the founder of the business, actually is too busy for the business to grow any further, because there’s failed at delegating at training and recruiting at the piece of building an organization bigger than ourselves. And that’s, you know, it’s our job to remind entrepreneurs of the definition of entrepreneurship. And I believe that true entrepreneurship is, is the act of building something bigger than ourselves that runs without us. And a lot of a lot of entrepreneurs get caught up being being being an operator as being freelances inside of their own businesses, right? Like, it’s and and there’s a lot, there’s all sorts of psychological reasons. For some, for some people, it’s the this they love the artistry of what they do, right? They love the craft, it has trouble. Yeah, who has trouble letting go? Because they know that, you know, no one’s going to do it quite like they would. But that’s the challenge, right? That’s the that’s the game like entrepreneurship is about figuring out how you build an organization that does better architecture than you could do on your own. So yeah, that’s a big one. You know, nodding away. It’s

Jeremy Weisz 27:02

just, it’s amazing, because, obviously, you’ve worked intimately with met like, 1000s, probably 10s of 1000s at this point, so you hit all these pain points. I mean, those are, you know, the delay gratification, the you know, having control issues or delegating, failing to hire or recruit properly, all these things I, you know, totally hit home. For me, I don’t know anyone listening who hits home. It was funny, because I was talking to another CEO, and really successful guy, he’s, he’s started multiple companies, and successful companies. And he said, Jeremy, how do you maintain balance? Like he just had a child in the past year? And I’m like, I have no idea. Like, talk to, you know, but it sounds like I mean, any any entrepreneur, founder or CEO, who’s who’s thinking about these things, I should just check out Commit Action, and it helps, but to walk through, because you have found this product market fit over the last over a decade. What does that look like now? Like, who’s perfect to work with Commit Action? Right now? And yeah, and then what do you do for them? Yeah, that’s

Peter Shallard 28:18

a great question. Yeah, and we’ve been at it for knock. I’ve been at the shrink for entrepreneurs for a decade connections a little bit younger. But we when you and I first connected, I was just kind of experimenting with it. And the original experiment was, like I kind of looked at, I realized that accountability or lack of accountability was the problem and started thinking to myself, okay, let’s, um, let’s look at what let’s look at what happens if you take like coaching and therapy, and you get rid of all the coaching and therapy, but you just keep the relationship. Like just that, because I have this crazy theory that even bad life coaching, like really bad life coaching is actually somewhat effective. Because even if you have like the world’s dumbest Life Coach, you just have no idea what they’re talking about just having somebody check in and ask you how you’re done asking you Hey, your how’s your week last week, you said you were gonna do this? How did it go? That actually is proven, there’s a lot of research that shows us that that type of inquiry when it’s coming from another human that modifies our behavior, we do a little bit better when we’ve got that. So that sort of basis of Commit Action was like Minimum Viable dose of coaching. And that’s what we started with, like the original iteration that I was on mixergy. Back in the day talking with Andrew about was, we pair entrepreneurs up with somebody who went meets with them once a week over the phone to talk about their goals for the next seven days. And that’s it. We do it again, we check in with them a week later. Really simple, really straightforward. So over time, we’ve kind of stayed true to the spirit of that minimum viable does, but we’ve built it out. You know, we built a proprietary software product that really kind of got us moving, because we kind of realized the ultimate version of this would be if I came in sat with you in your office with your whiteboard, and you’re kind of wolf planning your calendar or whatever. And sort of like, looked at what’s on the whiteboard and maybe scrubbed some stuff out and rewrote it in more specific language like, probed you about it and got got those goals dialed in and more concise and clear. And then sort of circled the top three and said, that’s your focus for the next seven days. I’ll see you in a week. So we built a software platform that enables that collaborative conversation to happen. It’s a it’s a two way like this beautiful web app that works. Like the clients can jump on on their phone and actually see while they’re on a weekly call with their accountability coach, those top the things that they’ve put in getting optimized, the coach will be quizzing them and say, Okay, I’m going to, I’m going to flesh this goal out, see exactly what you need to do, where you’re going to start. And you can see that unfold, see things being reordered and reprioritize. You know, see the calendar being built out of when when you’re going to be working on all of this, take a look at it, sync it with your work your 17 work calendars, make sure that there is actually time, it’s another big part of what we do is like every week, we make this plan, and then we give the clients the ultimate accountability of like, look at your other calendars, your appointments. Now look at this plan for the deep work that you and I’ve just made, are they compatible, or is there space, because one of the things that a lot of entrepreneurs will do is book themselves for 35 hours of meetings in a week, and then have this mental expectation that they should be doing about 20 hours of deep work on top of that, and they’re also a new father, or whatever it might be. And then they finish, it’s obviously not going to happen. And they finished the week beating themselves up because they didn’t get more work done. But they actually set up the rules of the game was such that they were always going to lose. So we catch that before it happens. Get them with a realistic plan. Or even say, Hey, you got to if you want to do this, you got to cancel some of these meetings, you got to make time to work on your business. And so that’s how are those

Jeremy Weisz 31:59

Peter so granular like so how long do Is there a set amount or does varies from week to week? Does the coach meet with saying that the person meets with the client. So

Peter Shallard 32:13

we we do very quick little check in calls, they usually no more than 20 minutes. They’re designed like alcohol, our target market is busy people who don’t want to spend an hour and a half with an introspective life coach on a weekly basis but need that hit of accountability and need a concrete plan Sunday nice and short. And then we’ll check in throughout the coach checks 10 throughout the week via text message via email. So you know when you’re meeting with your coach on Monday, and we kind of identify Thursday afternoon, that’s the that’s the time you’re going to work on you’re going to write that new website copy, you need three hours of dedicated copywriting time. You’re going to text that you know 10 plus three saying Jeremy, straight clock. You’re at your desk. Are you writing

Jeremy Weisz 32:56

and watching YouTube videos? Peter? No. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, sure.

Peter Shallard 33:00

It’s been insane. It’s the knowledge that I mean, really what we do is we give the entrepreneur the ability to have someone whose sole job someone on their team whose sole job is managing their focus. And it’s like crazy to me that that should be the first hire anyone makes we let you do it fractionally for 299 a month, but like you’ve got to have someone on your team who keeps you on track.

Jeremy Weisz 33:26

Yeah, it’s super affordable. And I don’t know if if someone signs up, hopefully they grandfathered in, but I wouldn’t want to mention the price cuz I’m like he’s gonna probably raise it at some point because it’s so inexpensive. For someone right now. It for 299 they have like a personal present holding you accountable. Every single weekend month is is a tremendous value. You know, I love because people do it for their house all the time. Right? And why not do it for your business?

Peter Shallard 33:59

And works. Anybody who’s had anybody who’s worked with a personal trainer, for like at the gym will tell you like the united people might not like the sort of workout style or whatever. But nobody argues with overall works. When somebody is there going dropping, give me 20 you show up and you drop and give them 20 like you do it because we’re and the reason is, there’s 100 million years of evolutionary hardwiring we are we’re social primates, we care very much that the other monkeys think highly of us, because we want them to, you know, look after us and leave enough fruit on the tree for us and our children. we’re hardwired to play that game of like, I got to make sure that I’m being a good person to this other person. I got to make sure that I’m fulfilling my obligations and my promises. And the difference between to take it full circle between like the isolated small business owner and Elan Musk is the amount of relationships that you know he’s got that obligation to show up and perform. And so that’s what that’s what we offer is the the You know, that coach who becomes that for everything that you’re working on? Peter, I

Jeremy Weisz 35:05

have one last question. First of all, thank you. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I mean, I’ve learned, you know, from you, you know, distance wise, just listening to you talk about how do you achieve more what’s holding you back. And so thanks for sharing this and also creating Commit Action where other people can do the same thing in a really systemized fashion. So I want to point people to Check it out, check out other episodes of the podcast and Are there any other places I should point people to online to check out more?

Peter Shallard 35:40

If you want to, I’ve got two humps on the internet connection is the main one, but also my Shrink for Entrepreneurs website and blog that’s been around for now, like an ancient history item in the archives of the internet. been writing about the intersection of business and psychology there for 13 years, or whatever it’s been. So yeah, you can find me there and on Twitter @Peter Shallard. And yeah, get in touch. I love hearing from people. So I’m pretty easy to find. drop me an email. Tell me about what you’re working on. Let’s let’s talk.

Jeremy Weisz 36:12

Check it out. Peter. Last question. We talked about before we hit record, about Carl Mattiola, and talk a little bit about his story.

Peter Shallard 36:27

Carl Carl is a great friend of mine, who I knew before I even started Commit Action. And I think and I gave a talk at a conference he was at where he was trying to figure out how to quit his job at Tesla. He worked he was an engineer there and build a software company. And he joined he was one of the first people who joined Commit Action way back in the day. He worked with us consecutively for like five years or something and went from being a guy working on building his first bootstrap sass company to like, solo where he really needed the accountability to actually quitting and and, and for what I consider to be the only valid reason someone can leave Commit Action, which is that he had such accountability from the team that he built and the partners that he was working with, that he no longer really needed what we were doing, and I was like, that’s great man, like, I enjoy and I think he left when he was a headcount of over 20 he founded a company called Clinic Metrics that helps

Jeremy Weisz 37:27

physical therapists,

Peter Shallard 37:28

physical therapists, yeah, it’s a software business that helps them scale their their businesses and manage their businesses. And then he also spun out Breakthrough, which is a sort of a marketing and, and, and sort of events business within that industry as well. And it’s just been riding on a rocket ship ever since. So he left us with double digits and employees and millions of dollars in revenue, and has just since then taken it to the moon, and a great friends that I’ll have forever, I hope and yeah, like just a cool, a cool testament. So the power of accountability and how it can become self sustaining.

Jeremy Weisz 38:04

What did he say Peter was? What was great feedback from him that was working, what would he say this is what really worked for me with Commit Action?

Peter Shallard 38:13

I think that I think, I think for him the focused on the incremental that a lot of entrepreneurs, especially when they’re getting going, I’ve got the light, I got a 10 X, I gotta go big, I got to figure it out. And what we do it come in action is we’re really about like, blow yourself away with what you incrementally accomplish in a couple months in a year, right? Like, our best customers are the ones who work with us, and set these goals and chip away at these huge plans. And then they turn around 12 months later and are like holy shit, look at what I built. We don’t believe in overnight success. We don’t believe in if somebody’s telling you, they’re going to tenant’s your business in 30 days, they’re lying. Right? Like it doesn’t work that way. But but but incremental execution when it’s relentless, and and and you’ve got to have some balance, you’ve got to have the sustainability. You’ve got to do all these things, but talks about it will it will blow you away what you’re capable of accomplishing long term and I think for Carl, that was what we really helped them do was that that systematic chipping away at this big vision that he was executing on

Jeremy Weisz 39:19

everyone check outCommit Peter I want to be the first one to thank you and everyone will see on the other side.

Peter Shallard 39:27

Thanks for having me.