[Top Agency Series] Mastering the Hiring Process With Noel Andrews of JobRack

Noel Andrews is the Owner and CEO of JobRack, a platform dedicated to helping agency owners hire remote team members from Eastern Europe and South Africa. With a background leading large teams in the corporate world and his entrepreneurial experience, he has grown JobRack to facilitate over 2,000 hires and counting. Noel is passionate about finding the sweet spots in remote hiring and providing high-quality, culturally aligned talent to agencies looking to scale. His innovative approach to vetting, interviewing, and testing has made him an expert in the remote hiring process, offering both job board and hands-on services to suit different needs.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

• [03:30] How JobRack helps businesses hire remote talent, especially in Eastern Europe and South Africa
• [05:31] The evolution of JobRack from a small job board to a full-fledged remote hiring solution
• [07:59] How JobRack’s refined hiring process saves time and energy for agency owners
• [12:12] Common hiring mistakes according to Noel Andrews 
• [19:59] The importance of attitude and energy in the hiring process from Noel’s unique interview method 
• [24:17] How JobRack’s internal process improvements enhance delivery and client experience
• [26:43] Noel’s insights into maintaining company culture in a remote working environment
• [29:18] How to maintain healthy company culture in remote workplaces
• [33:47] What to look for in a good account manager
• [37:25] How to work toward the next stage of business growth — learning to let go of things

In this episode…

Hiring the right talent is a daunting task for many businesses, especially in the competitive markets of the US and Canada. What if there was a way to not only find highly skilled professionals, but also significantly reduce costs? How can companies ensure they’re choosing the best candidates without spending countless hours on recruitment?

Noel Andrews of JobRack has found the solution to this dilemma by focusing on remote hiring from Eastern Europe and South Africa. Noel explains how the excellent education systems, proficient English skills, and cultural alignment in these regions make them ideal for remote hiring. His company not only provides a job board for agencies to post listings, but also offers a comprehensive, done-for-you service. This service includes actively sourcing candidates, rigorous screening, and developing a shortlist tailored precisely to the agency’s needs. Noel’s approach ensures that clients find the perfect fit for roles ranging from software developers to account managers, all while navigating the complexities of remote hiring.

In this episode of the Inspired Insider Podcast, Dr. Jeremy Weisz hosts Noel Andrews, the Owner and CEO of JobRack, as they delve into overcoming challenges in remote hiring. Noel shares insights into the pitfalls businesses often encounter, such as rushing the hiring process and relying solely on resumés. He also discusses practical steps to refine job descriptions and attract top talent, emphasizing the importance of a well-crafted job posting. The conversation covers his strategic shifts in team management and client engagement, providing valuable lessons for any agency owner looking to optimize their hiring strategy and build a strong, cohesive remote team.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• Noel Andrews on LinkedIn
• JobRack
• The Hands-Off CEO: Triple Your Fees and Profitably Scale an Exceptional Consulting Agency that Grows Without You by Mandi Ellefson
• Bureau of Digital
• Agency Mastery
• Dynamite Circle
• Location Independent
• TMBA Podcast
• Hampton
• The Power of Moments: Why Certain Experiences Have Extraordinary Impact by Chip Heath and Dan Heath
• Unreasonable Hospitality: The Remarkable Power of Giving People More Than They Expect by Will Guidara

Special mentions:

• Mark O’Brien on LinkedIn
• Newfangled
• Mandi Ellefson on LinkedIn
• [Top Agency Series] Scaling an Agency With a Hands-Off Approach With Mandi Ellefson of Hands-Off CEO on the Inspired Insider Podcast
• Hands-Off CEO
• Carl Smith on LinkedIn
• Jason Swenk on LinkedIn

Related episodes:

• [Top Giver Series] The Power of Video Storytelling to Transform Your Business with Ian Garlic of StoryCrews on the Inspired Insider Podcast
• Building a Great Team and More Helpful Insights with Jason Swenk Host of The Smart Agency Master Class Podcast on the Inspired Insider Podcast
• [Top Agency Series] Growth Through Acquisitions – What is Your KPI and Northstar? With Jason Swenkon the Inspired Insider Podcast
• [Top Agency Series] Most Valuable Advice When Selling Your Agency With Todd Taskey of Potomac Business Capital on the Inspired Insider Podcast

Quotable moments:

• “Hiring is really hard, especially for US or Canada-based agencies trying to find the right people who want to stick around.”
• “We focus on hiring awesome remote talent from Eastern Europe and South Africa because they are the sweet spots of remote hiring.”
• “The most common mistake is that people jump into hiring too quickly without figuring out what it is they actually need.”
• “A job post needs to be like a sales page; you are selling an opportunity to attract the absolute best talent.”
• “For me, culture is the little things you do that build and make the kind of culture you want, rather than grand gestures.”

Action steps:

1. Evaluate your current hiring process: Streamlining the hiring process helps to focus on attributes that matter and increases the likelihood of finding a good match.
2. Actively source talent: Hunting for quality candidates is far more effective than waiting for applicants to come to you.
3. Incorporate testing into the interview process: Assessing practical skills reduces the risk of a mis-hire.
4. Focus on building company culture: Small, consistent actions can significantly impact employee satisfaction and retention in a remote environment.
5. Leverage automation and delegate tasks: Stepping back from tasks can allow for better business scalability and personal growth.

Episode Transcript

Intro 0:12

You are listening to Inspired Insider with your host, Dr Jeremy Weisz.

Jeremy Weisz 0:22

Dr Jeremy Weisz here, founder of inspiredinsider.com, where I talk with inspirational entrepreneurs and leaders. Today is no different, I have Noel Andrews of jobrack.eu. Noel, before I formally introduce you, I always like to point out other episodes people should check out of the podcast. Actually, Ian Garlic talks about you all the time. I don’t know if you know that. So he’s like, You must have Noel on the podcast. Ian did a great episode with me. He runs Video Case Story, and he talked about how his dad, I don’t know if you talked about this with him at all, how his dad had a restaurant, and that restaurant had live dolphins in it, right? And it beats, I mean, strange in general, I think. But this restaurant was not in Orlando, where he lives now. It was actually in Wisconsin, which makes it even crazier. So we just shared some of the unique stories and, you know, interesting ways to think about business and getting attention. So that was a fun story from that one. Also, there’s two episodes I did with Jason Swenk. I know you know Jason as well. One was how he built up his agency to eight figures and sold it, and the other one how he had been buying up agencies and what he was looking at in the agency space for valuations and and then another good one was Todd Taskye, who runs Second Bite Podcast. He kind of pairs private equity with agencies, help sell agencies and second bite, because sometimes agencies, when the private equity group sells again, they make more in the second bite than they do on the first so that’s also a fascinating interview about the agency space, valuations and all that too. 

This episode is brought to you by Rise25. At Rise25 we help businesses give to and connect to their dream relationships and partnerships. And how do we do that? We do that by helping you run your podcast, or an easy button for a company to launch and run a podcast. We do the accountability, the strategy and the full execution. So kind of like, Noel, what you do to help people get amazing staff. We are the magic elves that work in the background to make it look easy for the host so they can create amazing relationships and great content. You know, for me, the number one thing in my life is relationships. I’m always looking at ways to give to my best relationships, and I found no better way, over the past decade, to profile the people and companies I most admire and share with the world what they’re working on. So if you thought about podcasting, you should. If you have questions, you can go to rise25.com or email us at [email protected].

I’m excited to introduce Noel Andrews. He’s the founder of JobRack. You can find jobrack.eu where they help agency owners hire remote team members from Eastern Europe and South Africa. So I think they’ve had over 2000 hires at this point, and his team are true experts in the remote hiring world. Noel, thanks for joining me. 

Noel Andrews 3:21

Hey, Jeremy, great to be here. 

Jeremy Weisz 3:23

So I’m going to share your website for a second as you’re talking, but just talk a little bit about JobRack and what you do.

Noel Andrews 3:30

Yeah, sure thing. So I mean, it all comes from the point that hiring is really hard, right? If you are a, particularly if you’re a US or Canada based agency, and you’re trying to hire locally, it is really, really tough to find the right people that want to stick around. And so we talk about hiring actually awesome remote talent focused around Eastern Europe and South Africa, because they are the sweet spots of remote hiring. And I can go into that in lots, lots more detail. And again, real focus on real team members, so everything from software developers, operations and client account managers, creatives like graphic designers and video editors, and then we do a lot in the marketing space. So real, you know, PPC, paid media, SEO specialists. So the real kind of experience hires that you build a really successful agency around. 

Jeremy Weisz 4:17

What made you decide to focus on Eastern Europe and South Africa? 

Noel Andrews 4:23

Yeah. So I actually, way back in 2018 I bought JobRack, and it was a tiny little job board at the time focused on Eastern Europe. And the reason why the previous founders had focused on Eastern Europe was because, you know, to them, it was this sweet spot of remote hiring. Reason for that is because there’s a really, really great education system, really great English in terms of people’s communication skills, and a very direct communication style. And it kind of translates into a really great kind of cultural alignment with the Western world, UK, US, Canada, Australia, etc. And it’s got a much, much lower cost of living. So typically, like, kind of half the cost of hiring in, you know, the US or Canada, but typically for, like, equal or better quality people and so, yeah, sweet spot, remote hiring over the last kind of where we five and a half, six years, we’ve kind of grown the business, and about 18 months ago, expanded out into South Africa. Just to help us, there were certain roles that native English is particularly helpful, especially if we get into copywriting. And again, South Africa, same time zone as Eastern Europe. So still great overlap with the US. But that all important kind of cultural alignment. And still, you know, lower cost for kind of, really, really good, great people

Jeremy Weisz 5:31

Talk about the evolution of JobRack. It started off, you said, as a job board. So when you were actually a customer, what it looked like, and take me through a little bit about the changes. 

Noel Andrews 5:44

Yeah. So I had spent 15 years in the corporate world leading, you know, very large teams up to 200 people or so. So lots of kinds of hiring, firing and leading of large teams. I spent a year building an interview coaching business and actually helping candidates. And as I was coming towards the end of that, I wasn’t struggling to scale it. That was my first kind of entrepreneurial failure. And I was then helping people doing some kind of remote hiring consultancy to helping them hire. And one of the routes for that was JobRack was actually a source of really, really great candidates. And the two kind of previous founders that created the business, they had bigger things going on. It was a side hustle for them, and they announced that they were going to shut it down if they couldn’t sell it. And it was perfect for me. It wasn’t very expensive, but all of the things that I would have procrastinated on. So the logo, the branding, the design, you know, it had a database of candidates and clients. Actually, it meant I could get going really, really quickly. So jumped in and kind of, away we went. Did, ran it, kind of, I was, you know, in the corporate world still, you know, slowly building JobRack up. 

And for context, when I bought it, it was doing 15, that’s one, five, $15 a month in revenue. So it was very, very small. It had been mothballed for about a year, and so picked it up out of that kind of like archive kind of mode, and spent two years, kind of slowly growing the job board. And what I realized was that in order to grow a job board, you need two things. You need either digital marketing skills or you need money. And I didn’t have either of those things. And at the same time, I was getting lots and lots of people asking me to help them hire. They were like, No, the candidates are great, the job board is great. But, you know, we’d like just exactly that, just do it for me, right? Hiring is hard. I had a lot of resistance because, well, you know, recruiters don’t always get the best rep out there, so I had a lot of resistance to kind of jump into that world. But it was absolutely the right thing. Absolutely the right thing to do. We jumped in, and the businesses scaled hugely since then. And it’s better for me, because my skill is in really helping people. And so I spend my life, you know, in my days, kind of chatting to agency owners, helping them figure out, you know, which roles are the right things for them to do. And then we help them actually find the team members that they want. 

Jeremy Weisz 7:59

Talk about the process a little bit, because, obviously it starts off as a job board. You get requests on people saying, you know, I don’t want to go through posting, I don’t want to vet candidates. I just want you to do it all for me. So the service evolves as more of like a done for you service instead of, you know, do it yourself. What is the process look like now?

Noel Andrews 8:25

Yeah, so the big thing is, we put a lot of effort into stunt understanding who the right team member is for, you know, the agency owner that we’re hiring for. So, you know, let’s say you’re looking for a really great Operations Manager. Well, the certain skills and experience and kind of traits that you’re going to be looking for. You know, great attention to detail. They’ve got relevant experience working in agency, etc. But the thing that’s really important is figuring out who are they right? Who do they need to be to work well with you and your team and the vibe and the culture that you’ve got. So put a lot of effort into really understanding that and helping make sure people and agency owners are actually looking to hire the right roles. Because oftentimes we get people coming to us thinking they need one role, and actually a couple of conversations later, we realize that actually it’s a different direction that they should take entirely for, you know, what’s right for their agency and their business. So once we’ve got that, we get out there, and a lot of what we do is about active sourcing. 

So the best candidates generally are not hanging out on job boards, right? They’ve got jobs, even ours, right? We have a great little job board. It’s great for some roles, but I would say 80% of the time we are out there hunting, head hunting, and actively sourcing, bringing people into, you know, kind of the hiring funnel, then the hard work really kind of kicks in. You know, in the days the you know, resumes have always been, you know, had their fair share of BS in them. It’s worse, so much worse since ChatGPT. So we ignore all that kind of side of things, and it’s the human to human element that’s so, so important now. So we filter, we screen, we interview and we test, which is a really crucial stage. Somehow the world has come to this place where. You know, the way that we recruit is by interviewing, right? And yet, interviewing is not a good measure of whether someone’s going to be good at being an operations manager or a software developer. 

So testing is really key for us. And then from that, we then use everything that we’ve had to help build a really great shortlist of, typically, like the absolute, very best five candidates for that particular agency owner, right? Which, you know, two agency owners might both be hiring an operations manager or a graphic designer or a SEO specialist, but the right people for each of them might be very, very different based on, based on what they want. So we figure that out, get that really, really tight shortlist, and then we kind of hold the agency owner’s hand through the rest of the process, through interviewing, figuring out who to make an offer, to how to reference them, how to contract them, and how to pay them when they’re remote and they’re in a different country, and so really kind of being that kind of hiring partner, and just yeah, holding their hand throughout the whole process, even when it gets a little bit sweaty.

Jeremy Weisz 10:57

And it looks like no you still have, people still can do it themselves, if they prefer. So they could still go in and post on the job board and use that function, or they can do the just everything’s done for them.

Noel Andrews 11:12

Yeah, absolutely. And for some people, that’s right, right? There are a kind of, there’s a lot of good business reasons for me to actually remove the job board, right? Because it, you know, it gives a little bit of confusion to people, like, which option should they choose? But there are some people that are maybe earlier stage in terms of revenue, maybe they’re looking for, you know, just a kind of, you know, 5-10 hours a week of time. And it maybe makes less sense to work with us, you know, the hiring service, like, financially and it, so, yeah, it’s still there very much. It’s very, very cost effective financially. It’s not so cost effective from a time perspective, right? So it’s $249 to post the job ad, but it’s going to take you, like, 40-50 hours of effort in order to hire someone really, really good. So it’s, yeah, it’s all down to how much time and energy and desire you’ve got to run the hiring process, right?

Jeremy Weisz 11:59

So now we’re at the point someone, someone wants someone good. What are some of the big mistakes you see people making with hiring, or maybe that even you made early on?

Noel Andrews 12:12

Yeah, to the big and still do make some from time to time. We managed to catch ourselves, most of it. I think the biggest mistake is that people jump into hiring too quickly, right? So they realize they’re like, right? I need to hire someone. I’ve got to get some help. I’ve got the budget. I’m going to do it. So they go on ChatGPT, they whip up a quick job post based on what ChatGPT thinks they need, and they post it, and they start, you know, advertising, they start filtering candidates. And then what typically happens is, at some stage through the process, hopefully, before they make an offer, they realize that they’re looking for the wrong thing, or they start interviewing candidates, and they come off these interviews and they’re like, why? Oh, hang on, why is this so painful? And it all comes back to the fact they haven’t spent enough time upfront figuring out what it is that they actually need doing and who is the right person to do it. And so a lot of what I do, and I love hanging out with agency owners and having these kinds of chats, a lot of it is almost like business coaching. It’s almost like going right well, what are the challenges that you’ve got? What are the goals, where do you actually want to head to? And then figuring out what’s the right path of hiring to actually get them there. 

So I think that’s the biggest mistake, people jump into hiring too quickly, and because they’re normally desperate, they’re, you know, they’re normally snowed under with work in the agency world, and then they make mistakes that can be really expensive and really frustrating, by not spending that time upfront and getting the enough input to make sure you get kind of on the right direction.

Jeremy Weisz 13:39

Any other big mistakes? So hiring too quickly. Also, it sounds like people don’t really refine their job description for all the things they’re looking for as well. Is there a case, an example that you could think of where you’ve talked to someone, and I’ve heard this story where they have a job description. It’s really three different positions in one job. So it’s like tough to find, like a unicorn they could do all these things. Is there an example you could think of where you help someone kind of refine, okay, I know this is all the stuff you’re looking for, but you kind of separate it out or refined it with them. 

Noel Andrews 14:19

Yeah, definitely. I can think of a couple. And the really common one that I get is people come in and they think that the thing that they need is, like an executive assistant, right? And executive assistants are amazing. They can be absolutely life changing. But in an agency owner, a lot of the time, we get someone coming in and they say, right? I want them to handle my email and, like my calendar. I want them to handle, like, client interaction. I want them to manage projects for me, right? And the list just goes on and on. Oh, and can they do my social content as well? And we kind of dig into it, and generally, what we find that they really need is an operations manager, right? So if you’re an agency owner, and it depends what you’re doing, particularly, but if you’re running that, you’re around about kind of. Like 6, 7, 8, maybe 10 people, and you don’t have an operations manager, that is often the single role that makes the biggest difference to the life of the agency owner, because you need someone that’s going to kind of take on making sure that things happen. So I think that’s a pretty common one. Someone comes in looking for this unicorn type role that’s executive assistant, operations manager, project manager, client account manager, marketing assistant, some of those things can be combined, but often it’s the switch. And we’ve done this many, many times. It’s saying, hey, no, what you want is a really, really great operations manager that maybe also does client account management. They can be combined. Just great. That’s probably the most common one that I see.

Jeremy Weisz 15:40

So from the operations manager, what would be the proper definition of the responsibilities of the operations manager?

Noel Andrews 15:46

I think, making sure that all the right things happen at the right time? Measurements wise, it’s client satisfaction for me, and, you know, it’s the smooth running. I mean, you could also almost measure it in terms of, like, you know, quality of hours of sleep, of night at night of the agency owner. They, you know, they are there to make sure things just run smoothly. And that’s why, certainly, for smaller agency owners, actually combining the role, initially, of operations manager and account manager is really valuable, because they then live and breathe the client experience, and then they can put the right processes in place. And then as you grow you split those roles out, which is exactly what I did at JobRack.

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