Dr. Jeremy Weisz 4:54

So why bad Rhino.

Marty McDonald 4:56

So that same day, rich walks into my office. So you’ve been working with me for about four or five months on a contract basis. And he didn’t really want to do it. He was like one of those times where he’s like, I’m not sure what I want to do if you use some extra money, and I’m like, I need to hire somebody I can trust. And rich definitely falls into that category. He came in and he started, you know, asking all these questions. He’s like, I know, you do some things on the side, and this that, and I was like, okay, where are you going with this, and I know, rich to be super well thought out. And he’s very organized on certain things. And I’m like, Alright, rich, if you come up with a cool name, amen. I’ll help you out. Right. And at that time, I wasn’t really thinking past that I was trying to almost get them out of my office. And knowing rich, I was super busy, I’m thinking, this guy is gonna take like two weeks or more to come up with a name, because he’s just methodical on certain things. And he’s going to research things. Well, 45 minutes later, he came in, I can’t remember the other 10 names, but he wrote down 12 names one of them, obviously, it was bad Rhino, and the other one was moose horn. And we got started and met for the next few weeks. And at that point, I was just kind of like, All right, here, here’s how you will get started. And next thing, you know, we became partners, and we’ve been doing it ever since 11 years later.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 6:12

Talk about Mr. De No, it’s great to have a partner. Because, you know, sometimes it can be lonely. And also, you just share that, you know, you have a personal interest, and you just share that hard work and ownership over the company. On the other hand, there’s joint decisions, and there’s other things it means like a marriage. So I’m wondering how you handle you know, if you there’s disagreements, and I can, you know, see, especially if someone is a high factfinder takes longer, there may be well, if you’re a quick start, okay, if anyone’s taking their Colby before, but you know, okay, let’s just run and do it, I can see be like, okay, one person gets frustrated with the other person, because you’re holding up the process, but the other person, you balance each other out a little bit. So I’d love to have you talk about you smile, you’re smiling. So go.

Marty McDonald 7:08

Yeah, no, I mean, it describes the whole almost being the yin and yang of it, right? I’m laughing because like, as you’re saying these things I’m like, I can think of like very specific spots. And it’s just like the name like Bad Rhino. Like we went through like a mini branding exercise. And we paid a bunch of money. And somebody was like, well, you should talk about how you went on safari. And he came and saw Rhino and all this other chats. And I was like, I really like the truth, you know, and putting that out there with that. And I tell rich all the time, I’m like, there are zero people on this earth I think I would ever partner with in a business. And the reason is, is I’m lucky enough to have somebody like bridge because he does balanced me out. Like, he’ll call me out on something when we’re talking. And he doesn’t even like a lot of times when he watches this, he’ll get a kick out. He doesn’t even realize he’s doing it. But I’m like, Oh, shit, yeah, I’m like, yeah, that’s, that’s something we should think of where I’m, like thinking very much bigger picture all the time. And he will admit, like, he struggles a little bit with thinking further down the road. So it balances us out. And the disagreements and stuff like that. I think the best part with having a partner, in my case, anyway, is that I can just say, hey, what are we doing? Like, let’s just stop and talk about it. And he’ll let me know, like, what he’s feeling and where he’s at. And I think that’s been like eye opening for me. And in the fact that the way he tells me that in a business setting really helps the trajectory of I mean, it’s 11 years, right? So like, you have to be doing something right to be in business for 11 years, right? Number one, number two, not to try and like kill each other at some certain points, you have to do something, right. So in putting all that together, is it’s just a balance, like you hit the nail on the head with like, your description, they’re like, right into this, you know, where’s he fall in this? Like, he’s meticulous in certain things, like stuff that I don’t even think of. On the other side of it. He sometimes doesn’t think of like, well, what if we do this, then what happens and that’s where I have to jump in. It’s like, Okay, if we do this, this is the road, it’s probably going to take us if we do that, then this is the road it’s going to take where it’s going to take us in it great creates a great partnership. And like I said, He’s not on this podcast right now. But if he was sitting right next to me, there’s really nobody that I would partner in business with than him.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 9:41

Marty was one of those times where there was a crossroads of a decision or that it could have been something that there is, you know, not necessarily a disagreement, but there you kind of have to duke it out in a healthy way for the path of the company. decision.

Marty McDonald 10:00

I think more or less, it was around 2014, where the internet became social media, social media became the internet, right? And we had done really well. And you get comfortable in doing things when you do them really well. And you’re like, God, you know, this is, this is cool. But you have to look a little bit further than that. And our clients, and our new clients, potential clients were asking us for different services that we just didn’t provide. And, you know, my famous line, I probably overuse is probably done in the center closed door meetings within that rhinos, I’ll say, Well, if you don’t want to be in business anymore, that’s fine, because we just keep going down this path, right. And that was the point where I wouldn’t say it was heated, but it was like, well, which direction we have to go to. And that was just finding the right partners to have video having the right partners to provide SEO, having the right partners to provide websites and things like that. And it just gets like that little contentions. Because when you push outside of each other’s comfort zones, like I was fine doing, hey, you want to do a website, great. When do email marketing great, you want to do this, you want to do that? I’m really good at that, because I had a little bit more experience in there, we’re Rich didn’t. So you have to push past some of those things to understand, like, Hey, this is where we go, but you don’t have to do the work or nor lead the team. In order to do that, we can find people that can do that, and help bolster our services so that we’re not just the social media team that’s out there. Other than that, I think it just comes down to little things that you have to make decisions on. But I wouldn’t say that we got really contentious, where you’re arguing, it’s just making your point and understanding where you want to go. And we have a nickname for our company. His name is Brad. And it’s Brad Rhino, right? It’s a little, you know, Rhino. And it’s always you have to look at what’s the best interest for Brad. And that’s kind of we do it as needed a person

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 11:55

already what I’m at what point you bring up a good point, like from an agency, because, you know, when you serve clients, and they trust you, they’re like, what else can you do here? other needs? At what point do you say, you know, we don’t do that we specialize in this. And, or, and be like, Listen, we have this other partner working with a partner versus at some point going well, you know, it’s that kind of push pull between specializing and adding another service on.

Marty McDonald 12:25

It’s really market dictated. And what I’m saying is, we never really go outside of anything that we didn’t feel comfortable in doing, right? That’s a key point is like, I wouldn’t say Oh, yeah, we’re gonna run like a direct mail campaign and write all the copy for it. And then you have billboards, and then TV, and then radio. Like we wouldn’t go that far. But these are like services that a digital agency, in my opinion, should be able to at least provide or guide their clients. So we had current clients coming back, it wasn’t new clients, it was current clients, they were like, Hey, you guys are doing a great job with this. We’re doing a new website, we want you guys to lead it. And it was like, well, we don’t do websites, and they’re like, well, you better figure it out. Because we want one agency, right? It was like,

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 13:11

we can ultimately almost

Marty McDonald 13:13

no, I wouldn’t say we were like a victim of our own success in a way that way, where we had some really good clients, and they were like, Hey, can you guys handle this or other agency blew it, you know, Hey, can you handle this? So it was like coming from a market situation. Then I also realized just in our sales, that people were asking for more and more of that, like, Alright, this is great. You guys handle social. But we also need this and we need that. And it was never really going outside of where we would feel comfortable, but it was just being smart about it. You never want to do that as an agency or any business owner where Hey, I’m the plumber, Hey, can you rewire my house for electricity? And okay, yeah, sure. You don’t want to do that. But yeah, it’s just sometimes the market changes, and you have to go with it a little bit in digital. And I learned that very early on just being a solopreneur. Back in, you know, 2000 to

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 14:06

talk about building a team, and key hires. So now it’s you enrich, and what were some what was the key hire throughout the process?

Marty McDonald 14:18

I think every hire is a key hire when you know, we’re not trying to grow to like 100 people, right? And my prior career was in staffing. And I got lucky enough to work with a lot of startup companies. And I also saw a lot of startup companies like ballooned in size. And then they had it lay everybody off. And when we started this, you know, quote, unquote, for real, after we got our first clients, and then ratios like, Oh, my gosh, we actually have a business here in the first four months and I said, Okay, here’s the one caveat, and the only thing I’m ever going to say that, you know, for me to be involved is I want to be a flexible workforce. I don’t want to be you know, Down with hundreds of employees so to speak. And that’s not to denigrate like employees or businesses that are growing like that, I just always saw the flexibility in there that you can have a nice business, a really good business and only have like maybe up to 10 key players, the key hires are super important. So almost every hire at that size of a business is a key hire. Right? It doesn’t matter whether it’s an intern, doesn’t matter whether it’s your person is going to come in and be your cmo, which we did, person that’s going to come in and run all your paid ads, which happens to be the same person, then now you’re getting into account management, and then people that are doing day to day work, all those types of things. And the key hire is what you have to go through is where you want to go, can you articulate that vision to that person? And then where do they fit in so that they can be successful with their responsibilities in the job that they’re tasked to do it? No task to do?

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 15:54

what point did you decide we want to bring on a CMO? Well, it

Marty McDonald 16:00

was kind of, I knew I was searching for one probably as early as about three years in. And I was acting cmo along with rich, you know, we kind of tag team a lot of stuff in the first four years. And from 2014, to about 2016. It was always in the back of my mind. If I find the right person, let’s bring them on. Because the strategy is what they’re ultimately paying you for. And that’s what we get paid for. Right? I’m not saying anybody can just do Google ads, or YouTube ads, or Facebook ads. I’m not saying anybody can just do it. But some of that’s just blocking and tackling. But the actual strategy part where you have to be able to look through that lens and say, This is what you’re going to get mister missus client. And this is the ROI, you should start to expect. It’s, you know, time consuming. And I started looking for that when we really started to grow a little bit more, and we started to bring on bigger clients that demanded more. And it was almost dumb luck, a good friend of mine reached out, I posted an ad because I was like, I need to get some more traction on this. And he just reached out and said, Hey, man, why don’t we talk about that I might be open to it. And you know, we brought on Eric, four and a half years ago, I guess almost now in a full time capacity three years and change ago. But it was like a process because bringing somebody in on the strategy side on a smaller agency, which we were then looking at it and going okay, then they share the same philosophies. But more importantly, they have to be able to articulate what the actual strategy is, from beginning to end. And that’s not an easy thing to find. But you know, taking that loosens the burden on you know, the people that we have doing it, but also gives them a clear direction. And really that inflection point is when the work gets, you know too much for whoever’s doing it. You know, it’s no different than any other business, you want to keep growing.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 17:56

Already, it seems like you’ve done a good job as far as like longevity with a partner, and staff. And maybe this comes from your staffing days. But I love to hear what are some of the things you witnessed in the staffing as far as mistakes with with hiring. So there’s a lot of like, this is a long story. There’s a lot a lot of stuff.

Marty McDonald 18:19

One of the things that I saw is like smaller companies. I’m talking like, you know, you have like a core like three or four people where they wanted to kind of get more diverse ideas faster. So they hired different types of people from different types of backgrounds and everything. And it diluted that many power that kind of started them off, right? I think the biggest thing I learned watching that first from a startup standpoint is that you kind of need a core team at first and get that core team and maybe build on a couple people that are very similar to you in thoughts and theories and everything like that, then go and start to bring in a difference of opinion. If you do that too early. What happens is you dilute that momentum, because everyone feels like oh, well here’s a dissenting opinion while you want that it’s certain points. You want people that are different backgrounds and different experiences as well as different expertise. But if you do it too early, what I saw was like a lot of those things that were going up and having a great trajectory, they just kind of fizzled because there is a little bit of infighting. The other thing that I saw was getting too big too fast. Like there’s certain points where, hey, we need this person because I don’t want to work the extra 10 hours this week, you know, as an owner or as a partner or as the CMO or whatever we need to bring somebody on and there’s totally credible like don’t get me wrong, like that’s a good thing to bring up. But at the same time hiring just for the sake of hiring because there’s a short little project Early on in a early stage company, I’ve seen that kind of blow up. And I think you have to get calculated and coordinated with that hiring as you’re starting out to make sure you bring in the expertise to get over there. So look at different things, not just hiring an employee, but looking at contractor look at, where you can potentially outsource some things before you start really building that team and focusing on that culture. And spending a lot of time spinning your wheels just to bring people in to just grow, grow grow. I hope that makes sense.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 20:29

Right? Yeah. So it sounds like, you know, looking at the different options is a big thing is like, if you’re thinking of hiring Well, why not look at a contractor? Why not look at another company? Why not look at I mean, there’s other possible solutions? Sure, yes, bringing someone on.

Marty McDonald 20:46

Yeah, that’s why you see is like, Oh, we need a, you know, a web designer, because we have all these web projects, and they wind up bringing on, you know, a brand new person to do that full time. And maybe they bring on the right person, but then they really didn’t focus in on why they had so many web projects during that time. And then that work dries up, then you have to lay somebody off and having to lay people off is in my opinion, and to do that early on in my career 20 years ago, and then a couple other times, it’s the worst thing, really to go through. And it kind of just stunts your growth in spots. I mean, there’s always, sometimes reasons you have to make changes, but when you just have to realize or make changes, because hey, this person is doing great, but we don’t have the business or we’re going in a different direction. Because we didn’t plan for this, as never any fun.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 21:34

Marty, you know, before we hit record, we are talking about what’s really working for your clients in yourself, which is video. So I’d love for you to talk a little bit about what you’re doing with video.

Marty McDonald 21:46

Yeah, so video and our friend, our mutual friend, Ian Garlic, you know, he, he helped open my eyes, both our cmo, Eric that he was hounding me because he’s responsible for our lead flow, you know, in a certain way. And he was like, dude, we got to do videos, we got to do videos, and I was like, I will map this out for me. And we’re, we’re doing fine with Google ads and paid Facebook ads and referrals and other things. And I was like, you gotta tell me why video. And he went in told me and I was like, Okay, let’s, I’ll, I’ll invest in this, but I need like, a clear path. And we started out on YouTube. And I, you know, reached out to ion said, Okay, we’re gonna do this type of video and need to have this together. And he was like, no problem. And we went, and we did that, and came back and started running the ads. And the first is, you know, the first layer of it is brand awareness. So anybody with a YouTube channel, you should start focusing in on just the brand awareness, get your views up, get everything going and get eyeballs on there, create some small ads, and some small and longer videos as well. But just get that up. The second part of that, what I saw, which I was like, Alright, let’s see if this works, was you know, targeting our ideal customers. So I went did the video spoke to the camera, like I would be speaking and answering questions to any one of our clients, and started going down piece by piece and saying, I this is what they normally ask, let me answer. This is what they normally ask, let me answer and build like a mini sales funnel, there’s no landing page or anything, it just goes back to our website, but we drive it all through YouTube. And putting those out there, you know, within 90 days, our lead flow increased, but then even more importantly, the quality of the person talking to us was a lot better. And then the second or, you know, part to a to the quality of the person was they would reference the YouTube videos. Like, I feel like I know you. Or if they were talking to somebody else on the team, they would be like, Yeah, I saw this guy, you know, Marty was talking about he was answering our questions, kind of like what we’re thinking right now, we don’t know if we’re a good fit, but we thought we should reach out and then it was like, so on and so forth. And then we watched her views start to skyrocket. And then the one big win we got was down in Atlanta, Delta Airlines, and with the division of delta, because Delta Airlines, but they came through, they put us through, they were willing to put us through an RFP process and like, I don’t really participate in those. They came back. And they said, it won’t, we’ll bypass that. But you have to have a call with the board of directors and then who got in there. And it was literally a five minute call. I was a little irritated first, because they’re like, yeah, we’re done. And I was like, we even get started. They’re like, Oh, we watched all your YouTube videos this morning. And we really liked it. And it just follow the same pattern of what you told us in the original call and what you submitted form wise. It was great. And they hired us and you know, it worked out really well and it was just tracking through there. So now we’ve done it, we were doing it for our clients. You know, we’re kind of like the cobblers children. We’re crushing it on YouTube, but we never really looked at it for ourselves. And now it’s, you know, working really well, it’s found the best thing that we have going lead flow wise, but the way people are today to consume content and videos the best way and podcasting to

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 25:14

park, what’s a common question you get?

Marty McDonald 25:17

Sure, like how is, you know, how’s my current agency failing me? You know, what am I missing in the reporting that they’re doing? What am I not looking for? Can they do better? You know, I’m not out by any means. I don’t like it when clients leave us for another agency, because it’s like, Okay, well, if you feel more comfortable with the relationship thing, then that’s fine. But you know, a lot of those common questions that come back are like those. But then the other Meteor questions are, what’s your philosophy? How do you put everything together? How does bad Rhino work? What What do you do on a daily, weekly, monthly basis? How do we get our reports? How do you tell us we’re doing well, and I just started rambling and answering all the questions and just putting them back out there and going for it. And the videos, you know, the views have skyrocketed. But then you also hear on every call, like I said earlier, whether it’s me or somebody else on the team, they’re like, yeah, we went through all you. Like, really? Like, I don’t know, if somebody wants to listen to me for that long, but it’s been working out really well.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 26:21

I guess if they have a deep question, they’ll listen, right? Yeah.

Marty McDonald 26:26

Yeah, I mean, I think, well, they

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 26:28

consume on your YouTube channel, or they consume on your website.

Marty McDonald 26:33

Well, we’re redoing our website now. And it kind of fit that model a little bit more, but they actually watch them on YouTube. And what I’ve learned by asking the prospects, clients, candidates leads, whatever you want to call them over the past two and a half years, is, what one was the one that like, I actually watched most of them, you know, and I say, okay, with anything stand out. And they were like, really, what stand out was like, just seemed like the information that whether it was rich talking or myself talking, was that you were just talking directly to us. And that is one of the things that people I think, Miss in their agency. And we may not be the best fit for everybody. But what we always try to do is create the relationship with the client, that they can ask us those questions, so that we’ll spend the time especially on the front end, we’ll spend the time to make sure that they understand what’s going on and where they’re at. And that’s how we just built the YouTube channel and do exactly that.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 27:29

I know, Marty, for you, you really are a big proponent of the channel, the omnichannel approach. So talk about that. Yeah,

Marty McDonald 27:39

I mean, we’re talking about YouTube right now, right. And if you only leverage one channel, now and 2021, almost 2022, if you can believe that, you know, when you just focus in on one channel, you tend to dilute a little bit of your message. But not everybody is just sitting there on a YouTube or a Facebook or an Instagram all day long. So you want to put your message into multiple channels, so you can hit them on YouTube, and then they see you again on Facebook, then they see you again on Instagram, then they’re reading something in New York Times, and there’s your little ad, and you’re almost everywhere at all times. That’s really the approach for digital marketing that I’ve seen, especially during the pandemic, it was headed that way. But it just astronomically shot up in the past 18 months of that’s what’s working. And that is something that we’ve always talked about, like get them into your ecosystem, get them to consume some of your content, then hopefully get one asked, maybe you get them on an email list, then you get them onto a Facebook page or group or Instagram, build that community. Because every sale, it doesn’t matter whether it’s a T shirt, coaching, agency services, whatever, they’re gonna be looking at you about five 710 times before they make a decision to pick up the call or click by. So if you only using one channel, you’re missing those opportunities. And they’re not going to sit there and watch every single YouTube video until they say, Oh, yeah, we should call these people.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 29:10

Right, tell me more about how you grew golf fanatics.

Marty McDonald 29:15

So that has been like a labor of love in many different ways has had many fits and starts over the years. for the wrong reason that we build it. We still do it today. I mean, we have like 40,000 really hardcore golfers on our Facebook page and like another 17,000 on Instagram. And then we have an email list of about 65,000. And the reason I just tell you the numbers is that it’s just community building in its longest form, I would say what we did there was to prove out that we can grow golf communities for potential golf clients, number one. Number two is to monetize those. They’re both undergoing some web maintenance and some other things to be relaunched here in 2021. But then we can leverage the information. So we Get a golf client. We can post content on golf, cheapskate or golfing fanatics, and say, Okay, this is what gets response. So we can show you that, hey, in your community, you might want to run an ad that looks like this, or it looks like testing but testing bed, among other things. This way we can show how it will work. There’s a lot of other things that go into it. But you know, that’s how we built it. So we had credibility and golf and beer and a couple other niches that we’re in and just keep working on on those to build the communities that we can leverage for our clients as well as for ourselves.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 30:36

Do you find martinet some people want to work with you in that realm because

Marty McDonald 30:41

it’s a value add I think Empire is 100% the value add? Like oh,

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 30:47

by the way, I could send you you could work with us. By the way, we could send an email or 65,000 email subscribers. That sounds pretty compelling.

Marty McDonald 30:55

Yeah, it does. And then you can also tell them be like yeah, and there’s about a 10% buy rate on the 65,000 so about 6000 are highly highly engaged, I’m gonna say new 10% conversion but they’ll click for sure. And then you can start to put them into that whole omnichannel approach and that ecosystem that we were talking about but yeah, it’s 100% value add but also prove some things out it’s like a giant testing ground we’ve done it for a couple other niches that we’re in like I said, but it is the value add there

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 31:24

for sure. Who is ideal for you in that realm? Oh, as a client

Marty McDonald 31:30

Yeah, e-commerce clients across the board we work with quite a few in a variety of niches not just in golf and craft beer but we also work with like you know, sportswear and a bunch of others I’ll rattle off and masks and safety and a lot of clothing and things like that but really ideal is somebody that’s looking to grow you know, maybe they they’re they’ve crossed the million million and a half mark, and they need to kind of go to that next spot which is like 5 million and they want to grow and they probably have one person handling all their marketing, but our agency a bolt on and help them scale their ads and help them grow from there. That’s really ideal.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 32:07

what’s hot in the golf niche now,

Marty McDonald 32:09

everything right now Ryder Cup just happened this weekend. So it’s all about the USA and all that fun stuff. But really hot in the golf niche is almost everything pandemic brought out, like hey, here’s a sport that you can you know, go to and do and be outside and, you know, get some exercise and do things like that. So golf on on that level of interest and intrigue has been going up. And then there’s still the 27 million or so golf nuts that are in the US that will buy and do anything just because they’re like me, and they’re they’re going to be in golf. But in terms of you know how you’ll see a lot of trends in clothing, you also see instruction, and you know, ways to get out there and get new people into the game, which I think is most important.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 32:51

I mentioned the simulators. Nothing seems like I think during COVID I got an Oculus quest to, because I couldn’t do my normal workouts, what’s new in the kind of the VR

Marty McDonald 33:05

space. So like, you’ll see things like Top Golf, drive shack, I think is another one. So their outdoor kind of fun video game, ask, you know, put a golf club in the hands, it’s different than driving range, and you can play games. So you have that. But then there’s a lot of simulators popping up, you know, that are similar that but they’re a little bit more for like a real golfer where you can just upload a course. And you can play there and you can get you know, 18 holes in probably a little over an hour, which is you know, super fast. Plus, you can practice, you see things like golf tech, which is got a lot of technology behind it to help you improve your swing and to better on the golf course. So those things are really hot. But the indoor simulators you see people putting them in their homes. That’s a pretty costly endeavor. But hey, if you have it, I would do it. And then you would go from from there where you have people bring people together on a golf course, so to speak virtually, where they can hang out for an hour, hour and a half and have a good time. And it’s not a whole four hour, three hour investment all the time.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 34:08

You know, first of all, Marty I really appreciate your time I know we have the mutual friend Ian Garlic and he talks about you and he’s like you need to have Marty on the podcast and talk about how he runs the agency talking about video and all the stuff you’re doing so I appreciate your you know your thoughts and stories. The last question I have is I love to hear about mentors you know we all mentors and lessons you learned in it, whether it was a business mentor or specifically business in agency mentor and in something you learn from them.

Marty McDonald 34:41

Yeah. In terms of marketing and agency wise, not so much for an agency wise but marketing in general has really been Dan Kennedy never met the man but probably the biggest mentor in terms of content and books and direct sales and things like that and listening that response and then psychology because in the last couple 1000 years psychology hasn’t changed. It’s just the medium that you deliver that in. Right? So that’s really been

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 35:09

I didn’t realize you were such a student of direct response.

Marty McDonald 35:13

Oh, yeah. Being? Yeah, I mean, I think direct response to

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 35:17

the other people in direct response that you also follow or looked at,

Marty McDonald 35:20

I mean, you know, there’s a ton but mainly the one that I kind of form everything off of has been Dan like, just kind of comes back to it’s just simply the way he describes things. And I think it gets down to a certain way that you have to talk to people to elicit that response. agency world, you know, I mean, you know, moe and my coaches, Jim Palmer has been great. He’s been awesome over the last years, or just directing me into like that, but he’s also a student of Dan. there and then, you know, Jason Swenk, and a handful of others that I’ve interacted with over the years. You know, I always seek out somebody every couple years and I always like to interact with just people that are doing it more so than having like a mentor. You can learn a ton by people that are actually in the game.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 36:05

I love I geek out on direct response to Marty that’s why I love being I think I did over some six or eight month period I just went deep and interviewed I’ve interviewed probably over 100 people in direct response who consider themselves some of the top copywriters or directors direct response marketers on the planet. I have not had done Dan Kennedy on my podcast, but I have seen him speak a couple times live and he’s, he is amazing. And he’s, he’s like, almost like a comedian, too. I mean, he’s just um, you know, just the informations fantastic.

Marty McDonald 36:41

Yeah. And then that’s why I don’t mention too many others. I mean, there’s a bunch I could rattle off but there are students that Dan and I just kind of like tip my head to Dan and you know, that whole thing for over the years for Glaser, Kennedy and whatever it’s called now, but that’s really where I learned a ton way back when and still do.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 36:58

Yeah, people can check out my interview I did with Adam witty, I ended up buying if I’m buying in. Now, I believe it’s called magnetic marketing, but it’s really Dan’s IP. And he talks about kind of his, you know, how he learned from Dan and how he was a student that you know, of Dan’s and Gk I see at the time and then just want to bring magnetic marketing more to the forefront for people. Yeah,

Marty McDonald 37:29

that’s how we build a lot of the stuff around bad right now. Especially in like creating Facebook posts. You know, I didn’t do a ton that was like, rich, but I would add in some direct response in there and you watch it work, and then people are like, why does that work? And I’m like, it’s worked for years and years and years.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 37:47

Amen. Well, Marty, first of all, thank you. Let’s point people towards you know, you can check out Golfing Fanatics on Facebook and good chat, check out BadRhinoinc.com or any other places that we should point them online.

Marty McDonald 38:01

Obviously, I mean, check out just search bad Rhino on YouTube and watch some of the videos and everything else is right there on our website or on YouTube channel and you can find out everything about us right then in there.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 38:12

Cool. Thanks, Marty. Thanks, everyone.