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Gary Sarner is the Founder of ROI360+, a company specializing in revolutionizing law firm marketing. Under his leadership, ROI360+ has become known for crafting media buying strategies that dominate the airwaves, helping law firms expand their reach significantly. Gary is a seasoned legal marketing expert with over 37 years of experience in radio advertising.

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Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

  • [05:25] Gary Sarner shares his journey from a budding radio salesperson to a legal marketing powerhouse
  • [10:10] Insights on persistence and follow-up strategies from early career days
  • [12:04] The valuable life lesson about not judging people, learned from his father
  • [16:22] Gary explains the pivotal moment that led him to launch ROI360+
  • [25:24] ROI360+’s client acquisition process
  • [29:26] How a simple phone number change can significantly impact a marketing campaign
  • [33:21] Gary discusses the mistakes and lessons learned in marketing
  • [36:00] Critical components of effective radio messaging for law firms
  • [42:18] The strategy behind targeting the right demographic for your marketing campaigns
  • [46:41] The qualitative approach to choosing partners through understanding their “why”

In this episode…

In today’s competitive landscape, legal firms must navigate a crowded marketplace to capture the attention of potential clients. Standing out requires more than expertise — it demands strategic branding and authentic connections that resonate with individuals during critical moments. So, how can these firms leverage innovative approaches and personalized communication to ensure they remain at the top of their clients’ minds when they need them most?

Gary Sarner, a legal marketing expert, dives into the transformational strategies that can catapult a law firm from obscurity to prominence. He discusses his evolution from radio to founding a legal marketing agency, sharing pivotal moments that defined his path. Gary discusses how his agency doesn’t just focus on delivering results, but also on creating impactful media campaigns that dominate the airwaves. His insights into the subtle nuances of radio advertising, the significance of staying true to one’s “why,” and the art of cultivating relationships offer invaluable lessons for any business looking to enhance its reach and relevance.

In this episode of the Inspired Insider Podcast, Dr. Jeremy Weisz interviews Gary Sarner, Founder of ROI360+, about redefining legal marketing strategies. Gary shares his journey from a budding radio salesperson to a legal marketing powerhouse, the pivotal moment that led him to launch ROI360+, and the mistakes and lessons he’s learned in legal marketing.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Special Mention(s):

Related episode(s):

Quotable moments: 

  • “You work for the radio station, but you really work for your client.”
  • “People who commit succeed, people who try just kind of fail.”
  • “Every piece of advice and growth in my career has come from caring about people first.”
  • “If you do what’s right — my team does what’s right, and we put everybody else first — everything comes back.”
  • “Connections matter because people matter. Whatever business you’re in, it’s still a people business.”

Action Steps: 

  1. Embrace persistence and follow-up: Demonstrate dedication and tenacity to overcome challenges like initial rejections or lack of responses.
  2. Focus on building relationships: Prioritizing relationships over transactions can lead to long-term success and personal fulfillment.
  3. Understand your market and adjust messaging accordingly: Tailoring your messaging to fit the specific needs and perceptions of your target audience can significantly improve outcomes.
  4. Identify and commit to your “why”: Clarifying the underlying purpose or motivation behind your actions can guide decision-making and help maintain focus.
  5. Invest in continual learning and networking: Attending conferences, engaging with podcasts, and interacting with industry professionals can provide new insights and opportunities for growth.

Sponsor for this episode

At Rise25, we’re committed to helping you connect with your Dream 100 referral partners, clients, and strategic partners through our done-for-you podcast solution.

We’re a professional podcast production agency that makes creating a podcast effortless. Since 2009, our proven system has helped thousands of B2B businesses build strong relationships with referral partners, clients, and audiences without doing the hard work.

What do you need to start a podcast?

When you use our proven system, all you need is an idea and a voice. We handle the strategy, production, and distribution – you just need to show up and talk.

The Rise25 podcasting solution is designed to help you build a profitable podcast. This requires a specific strategy, and we’ve got that down pat. We focus on making sure you have a direct path to ROI, which is the most important component. Plus, our podcast production company takes any heavy lifting of production and distribution off your plate.

We make distribution easy.

We’ll distribute each episode across more than 11 unique channels, including iTunes, Spotify, and Google Podcasts. We’ll also create copy for each episode and promote your show across social media.

Cofounders Dr. Jeremy Weisz and John Corcoran credit podcasting as being the best thing they have ever done for their businesses. Podcasting connected them with the founders/CEOs of P90xAtariEinstein BagelsMattelRxBarsYPOEOLending TreeFreshbooks, and many more.

The relationships you form through podcasting run deep. Jeremy and John became business partners through podcasting. They have even gone on family vacations and attended weddings of guests who have been on the podcast.

Podcast production has a lot of moving parts and is a big commitment on our end; we only want to work with people who are committed to their business and to cultivating amazing relationships.

Are you considering launching a podcast to acquire partnerships, clients, and referrals? Would you like to work with a podcast agency that wants you to win?

Contact us now at [email protected] or book a call at rise25.com/bookcall.

Rise25 Cofounders, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and John Corcoran, have been podcasting and advising about podcasting since 2008.

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Episode Transcript

Intro 0:01 

You are listening to Inspired Insider with your host, Dr Jeremy Weisz.

Jeremy Weisz 0:22 

Dr Jeremy Weisz here, founder of inspiredinsider.com, where I talk with inspirational entrepreneurs and leaders today, is no different. I have Gary Sarner. You can check them out at ROI360plus.com Gary, before I formally introduce you, I always like to point out other episodes of the podcast people should check out. A really good one with Chris Dryer, mutual friend, Chris, I met Gary because of you. So thank you. It was a great episode. Chris runs a great agency and serves PI attorneys. So we’ll talk a little about niching on this podcast. And he wrote a book about niching too. So people can check that out.

Another one was Louis Scott. He has got the Eight Figure Firm. Also, we are mutual friends with Gary as well. Check that episode out. And there’s a great episode with Gary actually, on Luis’ podcast that people can check out. So this is part of the top agency series, Gary, there’s a really good one by Kevin Hourigan and Kevin Hourigan run Spinutech. He had an agency since 1995 and so it’s interesting to hear his kind of the landscape of the internet business and the agency world. I know you’ve been in business and radio for dating back previous to even Kevin. We won’t date you too much here, but we will at some point. But check those out on inspiredinsider.com.

This episode is brought to you by Rise25. At Rise25 we help businesses give to and connect to their dream relationships and partnerships. And how do we do that? We do that by helping you run your podcast. We’re an easy button for a company to launch and run a podcast. And Gary, you know this, we do the strategy, the accountability and the full execution. So we call ourselves the magic elves that run in the background and make it look easy for the host so they can create amazing content and amazing relationships, most importantly, run their business. For me, the number one thing in my life is relationships. I’m always looking at ways to give to my best relationships. I’ve found no better way, over the past decade to profile the people and companies I most admire and share with the world what they’re working on. So if you’ve thought about podcasting, you should, if you have questions, go to rise25.com or email [email protected].

One of the things we’ll get into with Gary is your why. Okay, and I don’t talk about this much Gary, but I’ve listened to you for, who knows, 10 hours at this point online. So it made me think, I do share this sometimes, but my why with the podcast, and we’ve talked about this, you have ROI in your name, right? And so we’re like, hey, for it to be sustainable, someone needs to get ROI for their show. But the real why for me is legacy. My grandfather was actually a Holocaust survivor, and his brother and him were the only people in their families to survive, and his legacy lives on because of an interview the Holocaust Foundation did with him. I put that actually on my about page. I’m Inspired Insider. People can watch it, and that is my why, which is helping. It’s really yes that it needs to be sustainable, but it helps people leave a legacy beyond themselves.

And I’ve had, unfortunately, people on my podcast Gary, who passed away, and their legacy still lives on and their family still contacts. Is contacting me saying, I love how you captured Jordan’s story. And one of the people Jordan died early from melanoma. And I’ve had other people on Ron Popeel. You may know Ron Popeel, the infomercial King, and I had him on. Yeah, he’s like, but wait, there’s more. And Ron Popeel was a really good one. May he rest in peace. And there’s John Ruhlin, another one of Giftology, who passed away way too young. And so anyways, you inspired me to think about that a little bit deeper. So thank you on that, and I want to formally introduce you now. Gary Sarner is an expert in legal marketing. He transitioned from a really vibrant radio industry to redefine media buying strategies for law firms, and this is all across the country. He has over 38 years of experience in radio. He founded ROI360+ in 2021, and if you gather from this, his agency isn’t just about delivering results, but it’s about crafting media and buying strategies that dominate the airwaves. And we’ll talk about that. So Gary, thanks for joining me.

Gary Sarner 4:57 

Thank you for having me. Jeremy, this is going to be fun.

Jeremy Weisz 5:02 

There’s so much I want to cover on this. Where I wanted to start was you gave someone an amazing stock tip. Okay? And I like for you, you know what I’m talking about, hopefully, talk about the story of this person’s best stock tip you’ve given someone.

Gary Sarner 5:25 

Well, if my thought process is correct, you’re going back to my initial interview to get into radio. And that was back in 1987. I was 20 years old, wasn’t even legal to go into a bar. After a couple of months of trying to get a proper interview at the radio station, this word is going to sound foreign to most people. The secretary at the radio station told me all about the manager, what time he gets in, and I put on the ugliest olive green suit you’ve ever seen, and I sat on the stairs of the radio station and waited for this big, burly, grizzly, Adams type guy, that was the way he was described. And he pulls up, and I want to call it a Ford Taurus. There’s a big bubble in the back of the car, and I introduced myself, and he’s like, what are you doing here?

I’m like, well, I’ve been trying to reach you for a while, and took it upon myself to show up to work today. He’s like, dude, you’re out of your mind. But come upstairs with me, and we actually had this really great chat, or what I perceived to be a great chat as a 20-year-old punk, and at the end of it, he said, I actually like you, and I think you might be able to have a spot here, but I don’t make the final decision. David Ross does, and David was a mentor of mine for many, many years. May he rest in peace. I said, great, I’ll wait for him in the lobby. He’s like he didn’t come in until 11:00, 11:30. I don’t remember the exact time, but I sat there and I waited for the guy. And I guess after he got in and spoke to his team, I got called back to his office, and again, nice chat. My father was an advertiser on the station, and by the way, back in 1987 all stations were owned individually. You were allowed one station in a market versus today, where you could have seven. So in the middle of this, we’re not getting where I think I wanted to go because I’ve been a salesperson my entire childhood.

My father put me to work at 13 selling cassette tapes at his stores. So I took a chance, and I said, hey, can I ask you a personal question? He’s like, yeah, sure. I said, do you invest in the stock market? His eyes lit up. He smiled big. He’s like, yeah, of course I do. So I’m going to give you one tip. Just buy GES, invest three grand in it, and you’re either going to make a fortune or you’re going to lose it in 90 days. He says, can you excuse me for a minute? Well, now I know he’s a gambler, and he leaves for about 15, 20 minutes. I’m sitting in this big office looking around, family pictures and all these awards for the things that the radio station has done, and he walks back in, and I’m standing up now he’s like, my friend, there’s no such stock as GES. I said, no, that’s me, invested three grand in me for 90 days. He’s like, holy shit, sorry. We’re on the internet, so we’re allowed to curse. He says, you’re on, you’re hired, and I got paid $250 a week for four weeks, and never look back.

Jeremy Weisz 9:53 

I love the story because of the persistence. I even want to go back because from a follow-up perspective, before you even. Showed up in your olive green suit, what was the follow-up? Like, like, from the calls, like, what was the frequency, etc, on that?

Gary Sarner 10:10 

Oh, I had no knowledge of any sales techniques really, whatsoever, because in retail, people walked in and there’s a really good story about that, where I learned the best lesson of my life, but I probably called twice a day, every day, not knowing that I was the biggest pain in the ass that ever walked the face of the earth. But I’m assuming that there’s this pink little message, Gary called again, he’s a pain in the ass. Would you just see the guy? But Roberta, she was wonderful. She really was a special woman, especially for a kid that really had no clue living alone in South Florida, my parents were still in Atlanta, and it was home, and it became home day one.

Jeremy Weisz 11:12 

What did you learn from David Ross? So it sounds like he helped polish you a little bit throughout the years.

Gary Sarner 11:24 

You work for the radio station, but you really work for your client, back to people matter, relationships Matter, and that’s what I’ve taken my entire career, is it’s people first do what’s right, everything else will follow.

Jeremy Weisz 11:53 

Your dad was obviously a big influence on you, and I think the story you’re talking about, which I love for you to tell if I’m right is, don’t judge people.

Gary Sarner 12:04 

That is it. My God, you listen to everything, because that’s not mentioned in many of the different podcasts that I’ve been on. Long story short, I had my up in a retail store so salespeople get their turn. It was my up. Guy walks in, and he’s in his gas station attendant outfit, uniform, whatever you call it, like a jumpsuit. And I was probably 14, maybe 15. And I said to one of the other salespeople, you take this one. And the guy spent a fortune on a Nakamiji stereo system. There were high fives all over the store. I mean, this was a big sale.

And it got back to my dad that it was my up. He didn’t ask me any questions. He came out from his office, and I want to say he just grabbed me by the ear and pulled me to the back of the warehouse, and it was basically like you said, don’t judge a book by its cover. Who are you to make a decision whether somebody could purchase something or what type of person that they are. And then you start watching things as you learn a lesson like this. And my dad did very well, and he would go shopping for a car, waiting for somebody to come help him, but he always went in jeans and a white V neck t-shirt, looking like he had no money. And then he would tell somebody, whoever came to him later in life, he knew people and didn’t have to do that, but I want that car, and here’s what I’ll pay for it and hand him a check. But his thing is he always wanted phenomenal service, and that just stuck with me. So my expectations when I walk into a retail establishment or a restaurant, is service first, customer first. Now I don’t believe the customer is always right.

There’s way too many asshole customers. And I can own that from when I was younger, and I worked really hard on becoming nicer, more accepting and understanding and using a waiter or a waitress at a restaurant, they don’t make the damn food. They’re working their asses off. And yeah, it took a lot for me to make those changes in my 20s, into my 30s, even into my 40s. Today, I just send food back and say thank you.

Jeremy Weisz 15:47 

I’d love to hear so we’ve, obviously, David Ross, we have your dad. I think in your journey, I consider a mentor, your first client. So talk about that time where you’ve been working at the radio station for 35 years, and you go out on your own right. And for anyone going on their own, whether they think it’s a big leap or not, it definitely changes a lot of things. So talk about that transition moment to going out on your own.

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