Search Interviews:

Chris Peer 4:18

Sure. So SyncShow is a marketing agency. As you mentioned, Jeremy, and you pretty much summed it up, he nailed. You nailed it. We work with high growth companies in only three verticals, our business to business. And those verticals are transportation and logistics, manufacturing and distribution, and the professional service firms that serve them. So technology firms accounting, legal, but the ones that really are looking to attract and work with transportation manufacturing companies. Yeah. And what we do is we help them to identify their ideal customers, how to attract those customers. How do we engage them How to turn them into customers. And then also to foster customer loyalty to increase customer value and revenue for an organization. And we do that all through communications. Everything from website development to inbound marketing to outbound account based marketing, and value proposition work.

Jeremy Weisz 5:24

You know, Chris, you’re a rare breed that has been doing this for almost a couple decades now. And I was watching a video of when you first started, I can’t remember if it was in your basement or your attic, or, or some small room. When you first started, you made a conscious choice to niche at some point. Right? So talk about that decision and in what you were thinking at the time?

Chris Peer 5:54

That’s a great question. And that actually goes back to a previous coach I had years and years ago. So when we first started doing work, I didn’t know what I was doing. I mean, I was I had been in the workforce for maybe 10 years working. I worked for a small design agency that I worked for American Greetings, literally helping design greeting cards. And it’s amazing.

Jeremy Weisz 6:24

Because that’s your background, right? It was graphic design.

Chris Peer 6:26

Yeah, I was a graphic designer.

Jeremy Weisz 6:27


Chris Peer 6:29

But I always had the business side business sense, and really wanted to start my own thing. So when we first started, we did work with anybody who would pay us and really was making it up as I went. And I had some very fortunate mistakes I made or, you know, things that kind of fell in my lap, which allowed me to get out and network and hire and started growing the company. And then probably it wasn’t until I was in business for 10 years that my coach said, You know what, I really want to scale this thing. Think about a niche, what are you really good at? And that’s when we made the pivot.

Jeremy Weisz 7:08

Why did you choose that niche? I mean, it seems like there’s kind of like a couple verticals. But it’s at the time, it’s it’s a difficult, it seems logical, but I think when you’re doing it, anyone’s doing it, it’s like, well, then I’m giving away this other business. And they’re coming to me up the tournament way. So there is a downside to it. I mean, quote, unquote, downside, obviously. But how did you choose what you chose? Because you probably could have gotten a bunch of different directions.

Chris Peer 7:39

Yeah, so you know, there were other industries that we could have chosen, that would have probably been more lucrative. The technology industry, you know, working with law firms, you know, companies with a lot of money that invest a lot in marketing. But when it came down to it, we sat down and we said, Who do we love working for? Who are the best clients. And at the time, this is back in 2012. About a third of our customers were were middle market manufacturing companies. And what I loved about manufacturing was, they were good people. If you could find the manufacturers that believed in marketing, they were really great. You had a seat at the table, they valued your services, they paid on time, and they’re just good people, they treated my staff really well. And so manufacturing was a logical fit. Several years later, we also started looking at the transportation industry. And what I realized it’s booming right now, you know, it’s booming, you know, with every meal pandemic, and e-commerce and everything like that, too. So

it sounds kind of corny, but you know, the one thing I love about it, and I think where my passion plays in is, without transportation and manufacturing, we don’t have much of a company, the country. You know, we don’t have a country that thrives. And those two industries employ a majority of our workforce. And so the more that we can help those those industries, the more we help, you know, our communities.

Jeremy Weisz 9:31

I mean, you’re even a board member, one of the associations, right, correct. Yep. Yeah. Um, so, you mentioned mistakes. So there were some timely mistakes along the way that led you to where you are, what were you referring to?

Chris Peer 9:48

You know, I think there’s a book out there called the E-Myth.

Jeremy Weisz 9:53

I’ve had Michael Gerber on the podcast.

Chris Peer 9:54

Okay. Yeah. So I read that book years after I started the company. And what I realized was, in the email, he talks about, you know, the entrepreneurial entrepreneurial myth and some of the recommendations how you should hire somebody to replace you. And what I didn’t realize I did. Within the first year of starting the business was a gal walked into, I had an office on the west side of Cleveland. And we’ve only been in business at this office for six months. And this woman walked in and she said, I’m applying for a graphic design position. I said, I’m not hiring for one. How did you find us? Like, I don’t even think we were brand new. And so she bought her portfolio, and she just walked in, and I’m like, Well, I’m the sole entrepreneur, I’m like, but I’d love to see a portfolio of a graphic designer. Her portfolio was amazing. And her name was Jennifer, and she was my first and my first employee, my first hire,

Jeremy Weisz 10:52

I thought you’re gonna say she’s now my wife. Okay.

Chris Peer 10:56

Now, but what was ironic about that, it was I didn’t know what at the time, and they kind of like a fortuitous mistake, it allowed me to start doing started running a business as opposed to being a graphic designer. I wish I could say it was intentional, but it wasn’t. But it really helps to start scaling the organization.

Jeremy Weisz 11:17

Chris what are some of the evolution of your services? So like, obviously, I could see how you’re, you know, designing greeting cards? So are you offering graphic design services? And then where did how do you evolve into these other services?

Chris Peer 11:32

Yeah, so the the marketing industry is evolving so quickly in it, especially over the last 20 years with digital and the internet and all the capabilities that it brings today. You know, when we first started out, we were primarily a corporate identity and branding company, that was my background. I love working with corporate identity and branding, I still do. But I don’t do that design work anymore. As the internet became more and more prevalent, you know, we started building a lot more websites. And then you know, as the technologies enhanced the they the analytics in the data, and the metrics became, you know, more and more important. Back in 2011 2010 timeframe, I had a business partner up to that point, I brought in a business partner about four, four years into starting a company. And then 2000 to 2012. We decided to part ways. He’s a great guy. And he had a great vision, just it was a little different than mine. And we were headed in different directions. And he wanted to be more of a software tech company, I wanted to be more of a service company. And it was at that point that we really started to morph as an organization and focus on return on investment, analytics and data. And what was ironic about it was one of our largest clients at the time, who happened to be a relative of my business partner, we were doing their marketing and just built their website. And they had just landed a $20 million account in the automotive industry,

Jeremy Weisz 13:14

Pretty darn good,

Chris Peer 13:16

pretty darn good. And we knew the lead came from us, the website had generated the lead. And six months later, their VP of Marketing quit, and he replaced them and that VP fired us. And I remember saying, if we can’t keep a family member, it was it was my business partners cousin, after getting them 20 million in revenue, because we couldn’t prove the lead came from us and make it discernible, then we’re screwed.

Jeremy Weisz 13:50

So I said, we have best case scenario, right? Like family member, we get them a ton of business. Right? And, yeah,

Chris Peer 13:57

it’s crazy. So but eye opening, and like, if we can’t prove it for this person, and prove our value on our ROI, we got to do different. So that’s when I really changed up the model and morphed to what it is today.

Jeremy Weisz 14:16

What’s really interesting, Chris, is I want to back up about bringing in a business partner. And how do you navigate that because you’re running the business? And you don’t have to like give me specifics, but I’m curious for anyone out there is like thought about bringing someone in what is a good way of navigating from like a structure standpoint, does this person buy into the business and like, how does that cuz I hear this all the time, like I’m gonna bring I’m thinking of bringing in a business partner or what do you look for in that and then how do you structure something like that? And I know everyone’s gonna be different, but I’m just curious from you know, you’ve been through that before. If you were to do it now. What would you do?

Chris Peer 14:59

I wouldn’t do But now,

Jeremy Weisz 15:01

why is that?

Chris Peer 15:03

You know, I, when I brought in a business partner, he’s a great guy. And don’t this isn’t not to disparage anybody. I was a very fairly immature, as a business owner, I mean, I’ve only owned the business for four years, I really didn’t have a lot of agency experience before starting when I didn’t know what I was doing. And to be quite frank, I was scared, I didn’t have the confidence to run the business myself. And I thought by bringing in somebody else who shared a like interest, we could do it together and provide some comfort. It was great for several years, but I wouldn’t do it again, I just I just, if I was gonna bring in a strategic partner, it would definitely have to be for a very strong value reason. And while I am very interested in growing the organization and scaling it, I want to have fun doing it and be quite honest, I like being able to make the decisions and and move. And sometimes as a business partner can slow you down.

Jeremy Weisz 16:17

It is a marriage, you know, I mean, it is weather wherever you spell it. So it’s got to be like a really good fit on many levels.

Chris Peer 16:24

And if you look at the divorce rate, you know, exactly, it’s gonna fail most likely. So. And I’m sure business partners are even higher divorce rate. So yeah, exactly. They can have its benefits for sure. But I just I don’t think it’s for me,

Jeremy Weisz 16:40

let’s say you feel cool, you find a perfect person. For you, Chris, it’s a perfect strategic partner, you’re you know, it fits in whatever need the business has, how would you structure that bringing someone else in?

Chris Peer 16:54

I think it would depend on that person. You know, I’ve got some very key members of my team now that I’m growing and will make into a partner level with minority shares, and I think that’s, you know, to help them grow, and to have, you know, some sort of a exit strategy, you know, when I’m ready to make that exit whenever that should be. You know, and if between now and then another partner comes in, I guess, when you say business partner, Jeremy, I’m, I was thinking more of like that majority minority 40 50% owners, where two people are, you know, always struggling for either strength or power or decision making. Not that answers your question, but that, you know, that

Jeremy Weisz 17:44

no, that does. And yeah, I mean, I don’t necessarily have anything in my mind of what it means it can mean whatever it is it mean, maybe it means like you said, Well, you know, it’s really just someone who’s gonna, they’re not going to be like, equal partners with you, but just come in and have some kind of equity stake, whatever that is.

Chris Peer 18:03

And I’m all for like, I read the book, Who Not How by Dan Sullivan.

Jeremy Weisz 18:09

It’s a great one. Yeah.

Chris Peer 18:10

Yeah, awesome book, and I am a firm believer in it. I think, you know, I’m all for sharing in the wealth, if somebody has that same passion and drive and adds value to the company. By all means, we have a phantom stock program here. And that is offered up to key personnel that share that same vision and prove themselves. So I guess you could call that a form of partnership.

Jeremy Weisz 18:41

Yeah. No, thanks for sharing that. Um, you know, there’s a couple things that we are talking about before we hit record, which is, you know, going digital, in the things you do with digital, like account based marketing, direct marketing, talk about, there’s a transportation company that you had helped and talk about some of the things you did for them.

Chris Peer 19:08

So this was one of the, you asked, like, for some case studies or some, you know, success stories. A couple of them really stood out to me and one of them was a company that it’s an it’s in the transportation industry. about a billion in revenue over a billion in revenue. And what I really got got excited about what that particular account and that project was. They were a very complex organization, they had grown through acquisition over many years, have multiple organizations. And what was interesting about it is when we got in and learned more about what their challenges for growth were, even though they were highly successful, super great people like really nice. People is still privately held was interesting as they’re, as they acquired these companies over time they competed against each other, even though they were operating under one umbrella. So they had different sales teams, different marketing approaches, different value propositions. So what I was really proud about is our team went in, and we helped them to not only come together, but to establish one primary value proposition that position them as one organization with multiple services, as opposed to one corporate umbrella with multiple companies. And it helped to reduce the competition within but also streamline their lead flow, and how they were getting leads and attracting people to their brand. We built a new website for them. We helped with all their marketing, help them build out their value proposition and all their corporate messaging. And that’s one of those projects where our team came together. And I’m just really proud of the work we did with that organization. It, it went really well, and it served them really well.

Jeremy Weisz 21:06

Yeah, I mean, when I look at what you do, you are, you know, essentially really helping people with an inbound marketing strategy and execution, what were some of the things that with this transportation, that would be an example, or you can talk in more detail about from like, the inbound side of things?

Chris Peer 21:30

Yeah, so inbound is definitely a big piece of what we do. But inbound changing. So we’re putting a greater and greater focus on multi channel marketing, with more direct marketing today, what we’re seeing in the industry, I’ll answer your question in a moment. But what we’re seeing in the industry, by and large is that for the last 10 years, content, marketing and inbound marketing has been the big push. Now, the internet’s filled up with a lot of garbage and a lot of content that nobody wants to read. And so, you know, looking at, there’s definitely still a very important piece of your marketing that needs to be inbound. But if you really want to drive the leads, you’re going to need to take a multi channel approach. So to get back to your question, with this particular company, we did start with an inbound approach. And that approach started with getting their value proposition or corporate messaging, nailed down and solid. So we did competitive analysis. And we really looked at how they were going to market and then how to position them differently. Once that was completed, we then built the website. And then once the website was completed, we started with search engine optimization and content marketing and advertising. And, you know, we still work with multiple divisions of that company.

Jeremy Weisz 22:56

When you say direct to marketing, give me some examples. Like I always think of like sending direct mail, but I think is obviously broader than that. What are some examples of when you’re in your mind when you say direct marketing, what does that mean to someone listening.

Chris Peer 23:13

So when I, when I, when I look at when you look at marketing, and the main types of marketing, inbound marketing is really popular today, it’s been for a while. And to some degree, that’s a phishing approach, you’re putting bait in the water, maybe some chum and you’re trying to do is attract the people looking for your product or services. But as traditional sales works, you know, sales would make outbound phone calls, they would, you know, do advertising. And some of that is inbound or fishing, but you also need to go hunting sometimes. And oftentimes our clients have specific clients that they’re trying to bring on, you know, maybe it’s a specific number of clients within an industry or stem a very targeted market. It could be a geography or a company size or an industry as I mentioned. So that would be what we call a more direct marketing or account based marketing initiative, particular case you’re trying to get, we would do is get our customers brands in front of real people, employees at those organizations. Ideally, their ideal customer profiles, which would be their specific buyers and build that trust over times that they’re more likely to get that win. Yeah, of course, I’d

Jeremy Weisz 24:40

love to hear some creative examples either that you’ve seen or done. I love hearing these stories like I’ve heard people sending swords, people sending sign helmets of their favorite player. What have you seen or done? That is Been, they got your creative juices flowing with sending out something direct to a potential customer.

Chris Peer 25:09

So you know, we really don’t play in that space as far as like your direct mail creative piece. I recently joined an agency mastermind group and actually see that box right behind me. That was a really creative way to get me involved in that group. The owner of that group is Joey Gilkey is his

Jeremy Weisz 25:33

name. I know, Joey. Yeah. So Joe has been on the podcast. Also, if you watch Joey is one of my favorite interviews, because he played college football, so I clipped in some of his college football highlights into the front of the interview on like ESPN or something like that. So anyways, yes, Joey joy is great at that.

Chris Peer 25:54

Totally. Yeah. So I mean, I just joined the group, but I wasn’t expecting to get something in the mail, I get this customized box in the mail with a really nice bottle of bourbon and two etched, you know, bourbon glasses. Yeah, I think it’s the that was, that was something I was having a bad day, that day, I got home and open the mail is like, holy crap. He’s like,

Jeremy Weisz 26:18

he’s enabling drinking, like, I had a bad day, like, Oh, I got a bottle of bourbon

Chris Peer 26:24

with some good bourbon, too. So you know, I think the other creative things that we’ve done, I can’t say we’ve done something as cool as like a direct mail piece like that. But we will, we will work more in a tactical way on social media and creating valuable messaging that will get in front of people, and then delivering that into people’s inboxes whether it’s through personal social outreach, or email marketing, or, you know, maybe it could be a direct phone call,

Jeremy Weisz 26:54

you know, um, were there any, when you were when going back to your American greeting days, were there any cards that you designed, or that you saw that stuck out? Cheese? Cuz it’s sort of like the same, I feel like it’s sort of flexing a very similar muscle, like, what you did then is, you know, someone has to look at it, like on a sea of cards. And you have to be like, Oh, this is and they have to pull it. And they have to see, it’s, the messaging has got to be on point enough to buy it, to give to a loved one. Right? So there’s a lot of similarities there.

Chris Peer 27:36

You know, there are I wish I was that sophisticated when I was 25 years old. You know, I’m 50. Now. So that was 25 years ago. But greeting card. Design and creation back then, was it was an assembly line. It was really amazing. They had 120 creative artists at American Greetings. It was like the second largest art studio in the world. So somebody would literally design, the illustration, we have painters and such and then somebody would write the writing or the editorial. I was one of the ones that would put it all together and get it ready for printing. It wasn’t glamorous, but it was fun. I learned a lot there. So

Jeremy Weisz 28:22

did you did you bring some of those things operationally in your business? Like just observing at the time, like looking back maybe at a time you didn’t realize it? But you kind of saw this big organization? How it was run? Do you take any lessons from from those days?

Chris Peer 28:40

Absolutely. I’ve worked for Ernst and Young for five years, too. I took a lot of those business experiences and on project management and traffic management. profitability, you know, really, how do you make money at this? And who are the people that need to be involved? You know, in the email, we talked about that, you know, as, as the Dewar as the graphic designer, I’m sitting there going, Well, I can do this better. These these, my boss is not doing it the right way I can do it better. I’m gonna start a company and do it myself. And then you quit and you start your business and you realize, Oh, my God, I’m way over my head. Like, now I know why they didn’t do it that way. So you take as much as you can. Sure.

Jeremy Weisz 29:31

I want to go to um, Chris, there’s a manufacturing company that you helped and talk about that a little bit and you started off kind of with the go to market strategy.

Chris Peer 29:44

So, you know, we work with a lot of manufacturing companies and all of them are middle market, small to middle market manufacturing companies. This one stood out just from you had asked me again about a case study. This one stood out just because it meant so much to myself on the team. I met one of the owners of this manufacturing company through some personal hobbies. And he said, Hey, I’d really like to talk to you, I think we need marketing, I think we need a new website. And what I didn’t know at the time, was that this friend of mine, and his business partner were very close to going out of business. I didn’t learn that until years later, they had actually cashed in their 401 Ks. And like I mentioned earlier, manufacturing, most of the manufacturing people we work with are really great people. Their team didn’t know that they had cash in their 401k to cover payroll, because they didn’t want to lay anybody off. The bank had called their loan, and their capital equipment loan, and they were just really struggling. And here I am, I go in and they need to invest. It was over $100,000, and a website and marketing services over a year’s period of time that they couldn’t afford. They always paid on time. I mean, you would have never known it. And so years later, we were doing a case study video. And after the video turned off, the owner came to me and he said, Chris, you saved my business. And I said, What do you mean? And he said, You didn’t know this. And he told me the whole story about the 401k and the bank and everything. And he goes, here I am, you know, I got to spend all this money that we don’t have. And he goes, it was the best thing we ever did. A year later, he actually terminated services with us. And when I asked him why he’s like, we are getting so many leads now. I can’t, I don’t need you. He’s like, the basis you gave us. helped propel their growth. And I’m still good friends with the guy today, we were supposed to go fishing just a month ago,

Jeremy Weisz 32:06

that’s like a terrible is a great way to be fired, but a terrible way to be fired.

Chris Peer 32:11

You know, you work with somebody for several years like that. And these referred me to a lot of other companies and

Jeremy Weisz 32:17

you get the engine going, and it runs.

Chris Peer 32:20

But I mean, I mean, you know that when I still think that it makes your day, I mean, it’s just you don’t realize the impact you can have on somebody by just by doing your job. You know,

Jeremy Weisz 32:34

that’s amazing, because tactically, what were some of the things that you’d recommend others doing that, you know, in that situation, you started this engine of growth and incoming leads, what were some of the things that were critical in that putting that together?

Chris Peer 32:53

You know, one of the challenges in working in the transportation logistics, and the manufacturing and distribution, like industries, is for the most part, they’re kind of old school when it comes to marketing and sales. I would, I would say they’re laggards behind many other industries. And they’ve been selling a certain way for a really long time. Usually, it’s word of mouth, it’s relationships. And they typically have that I mean, all the companies, a lot of companies we work with, it’s the same story over and over and over again. So what I recommend for companies like them is to really think about how their competition is going to market. And that they need to embrace some of the changes that are the way businesses do businesses today. You know, they may have a great reputation, they get a lot of business from word of mouth, but what about when what happens when that runs out? You know, so they go on these peaks and valleys of Oh, my gosh, we got to lay people off, Oh, my gosh, we’re too busy. We need to hire people. And with the labor shortages today, and both of those markets, it’s really difficult. So establishing a very strong value proposition and messaging and really understand what you do and who you do it well for is critical. And then having a website that attracts people and communicates that value proposition is critical. And then the final piece is having a sales process and a CRM system so that you can track your pipeline. And you know, your revenue potential and your growth potential. A lot of companies Tell me Well, Chris, I don’t want to get too many leads, because I’ll be too busy. And I hear that a lot. I heard that this morning. Like well, wouldn’t it be great to pick the best of those leads and pick the most profitable projects as opposed to just being busy. So those are the key things. Yeah.

Jeremy Weisz 34:55

Talk about that mindset for a second. Sounds like there is sometimes When you’re talking, not you, but anyone to organizations is a challenge of showing the importance of marketing. It seems like in some of these industries even more so because they’re used to doing things a certain way. How do you explain to them when they’re used to doing things? Maybe? Are we it’s worked? We’ve done this for 20 years? Why would we, you know, do this, what do you say to those companies to talk about to get over that hump of the challenge of doing something new, kind of bring it to the

Chris Peer 35:35

to current, I guess. So what I’ve learned over the years, Jeremy is you can’t have that conversation with somebody unless they’re in pain. If If things are good, you know, and they are just limping along, like, I have one, when a business owner tells me, Chris, I don’t want to grow the business, this is third generation, my grandfather started it. I’m now running the company, I just don’t want to screw it up on my watch. So I don’t want to take any risks. I can’t have that conversation with that person. Because they’re just not willing to listen, because it’s just status quo. So you know, you mentioned it earlier, we typically focus on working with high growth organizations. So these are companies that maybe they’re not experiencing high growth, but they want to, and they’re committed to it. And that could be, you know, in small companies and large companies. But if they’re not in the game, to really move the needle, then To be frank, we don’t want to work with them. Interesting, I had a conversation this morning, I’ve had two sales calls this morning. One of them I had a sales call two weeks ago with and he’s he said, you know, it’s a manufacturing company. They’re looking to double revenues in five years. And he’s like, this is great, I want you to meet the leadership team on the next call. So I called them today to schedule that. And he’s like, you know, we decided we’re going to do an AARP implementation, it’s going to take 12 to 18 months. So here’s my approach. And I said, How are you going to double your revenue in five years? Are you really committed to it? If you’re going to put off the website and all your marketing for 12 to 18 months? I’m like, it makes zero sense. Like your website today, valid point. website today is actually hurting your business, because it doesn’t represent you well. And he he finally see, and he said, He’s like, Oh, my gosh, you’re right. Which kind of surprised me? in a good way. Yes. So if the company has to be in the mindset that they need to change they need to grow? I mean,

Jeremy Weisz 37:49

that’s great. I mean, you have to push back a little bit on people, I guess, because they’re probably doing what they’re used to doing. And it’s out of their comfort zone. You know, they’re like, oh, let’s just do this first, because you’re used to, they’ve done that before. And you’re like, well, you said, you want to do this. And that is not accomplishing that. So it’s probably out of their comfort zone, I imagine.

Chris Peer 38:11

right for you to say that. Very much. So you know, especially in manufacturing, a lot of them don’t have a budget for marketing. Unless they’re, you know, a much larger organization, they’ve never really done marketing. So, you know, asking them to put, you know, 100,000 $200,000 in their budget for marketing is a big ask sometimes.

Jeremy Weisz 38:39

So what do you compare it to, in those situations, you compare it to it’s like you spending a pee on a piece of equipment? How do you bridge that gap? Because that’s a big gap. Especially even with someone who does spend on marketing, you say, hey, do you want to spend six figures or marketing? It’s not like Yes, all the time. And then you have someone who they don’t even have the budget for?

Chris Peer 39:00

Yeah, and I don’t mean to sound coy. But I try not to have those conversations anymore. Like I don’t want to be in the business of selling marketing. I want to be in the business of selling why SyncShow is the best choice once they’ve made a decision to do marketing. So if companies have not worked with an agency before the first questions I’ll ask them are do you have budget? And are you committed to this? And if the answer is Well, not really, we haven’t decided that. I will immediately give them some general pricing just to see if they’re in the ballpark. And if not, then no, let’s not waste time here. Yeah. Cuz I don’t want to I’m not in the business of being an evangelist for why you should do marketing. Yeah.

Jeremy Weisz 39:46

No, yeah. I mean, obviously, when you show the value of what they’re going to get, it far outweighs whatever they’re going to spend anyways. So I can see that but but it’s it’s almost in certain industries. It’s changed. It’s changing someone’s paradigm and their mindset a little bit throughout the process of talking to you, I imagine if they go from not used to doing this in a totally different fashion to doing this in a different fashion, and we don’t even mark it. It’s just, it’s a big gap, you know? Yeah. So, but no, thanks for sharing that that’s helpful. And, and that is helpful to think of, you know, the qualification is like, someone’s mindset also, which is, they have to be kind of growth oriented, or, or avid or experiencing a pain or it’s not gonna work? No. First of all, Chris, I want to thank you. I have one last question. But, um, thank you so much. Thanks for sharing your knowledge, your decades of knowledge experience, I want to encourage everyone go to, that’s check out more, especially if you are in the industries that I mentioned in the logistics, transportation, professional services, manufacturing, check out So, Chris, last question. I would love to know, you know, you mentioned the E-myth and a couple of resources, I’d love to know, any books or resources out there that you’ve liked and that you’ve learned from over the years that other people should check out?

Chris Peer 41:30

As I mentioned, Who Not How that one was probably one of the most impactful for me. E-Myth was great for, in my opinion, more for startups. I’ve referred that to a number of employees that have left to start up their own companies and some people I mentor, I just finished a book called The Comfort Crisis, which was maybe one of the best books I’ve read in five years. It’s not per se a business book. It’s more about getting outside and enjoying life and it’s a little bit of everything, but that was a great book. So those are those are mine. I’ll check that out.

Jeremy Weisz 42:20

First of all, Thanks, Chris. Check out check out Rise25 checkout InspiredInsider, and you can check out Scott Anderson too. Thanks so much, everyone. Thanks, Chris.

Chris Peer 42:30

Thank you. It’s been a pleasure. I really appreciate it.