Jeremy Weisz 15:19
You don’t have to share the intimate details here. But I’m curious, coming back, right. So obviously, you have an environment where you’ve left the door open. Right, but even with the door open, I don’t know what it is, there’s a pride thing. Maybe it’s awkward to come back. How did that conversation go or start with, hey, and may want to come back here? Because obviously someone leaves and you know, there’s just, it can be awkward? I don’t know.
Yasemin Emory 15:51
Totally. And the truth is, it was a case of Whitney and I in the background said, it would be so great if Hannah came back. But we were a little too shy to send that email. And what ended up happening is she emailed us because she accidentally sent a package to our studio, and she emailed say, hey, this is so funny, but I sent a package to the studio, any chance you’ve seen it? And so that opened up the opportunity to sort of say, hey, how are you what’s going on? How are you doing, we miss you, we think about you often. And one thing led to another and it sort of, we were able to connect and talk about the possibility of working together again. So it was a bit serendipitous that way too, but I also believe it was one of those the universe made it happen for us.
Whitney Geller 16:42
I also think especially pre-pandemic, we would host, we have this beautiful 25-foot ceiling loft in downtown Toronto on the west end. And we used to host these massive parties. And we would always invite everybody that’s sort of ever worked for Whitman Emorson, friends of Whitman Emorson, it wasn’t a client event, it was just an event to have fun with former employees and friends and things like that. And I think we always we embrace change, we think people should feel like if they want to move on, we want to be supportive of that, we’re the first people to step up and say, okay, we’ll help you, in your next job, you want to transition to this other kind of a role. And we always make it a safe place to leave or come back, we have people that stay a really long time, and we have many clients that we’ve had for over 10 years, too. But at the same time, change is a part of life. And I think being supportive of that is important as well.
Jeremy Weisz 17:30
We’ll talk about the, you know, the transition to focusing more time on Jems, but just first putting a leadership team in place, what are some of the things you did, so you have the opportunity to focus time and energy on a project that you’re passionate about?
Yasemin Emory 17:51
I think we searched for team members that were at a place in their career where they were able to have a lot of autonomy in their workplace, and we’re craving that autonomy, but weren’t necessarily or in the place of or don’t necessarily want to have their own studio. And so I think the way we positioned it to everyone was, I think it’s rare to have a smaller team and two leaders say we’re truly going to give you autonomy, and for them to follow through on that promise. And I think what we did was say, because of Jems, there’s only so much time and energy we can devote to Whitman Emorson at this stage.
And so we’re looking for somebody to run this as though it’s their own studio, but we’re taking care of, the admin side of things, the legal side of things, the accounting, all the things that can be stumbling blocks, when you are starting your own business that we now sort of are pretty comfortable and familiar with, we’re taking that off your plate, we’re also here to support you, when there are those sticky moments. Or if there’s, we’re here to celebrate the wins and sort of ride through the difficult moments. And so, I think it is a unique opportunity because as Whitney and I have been there we’ve done it all just the two of us and to have the support but to have the autonomy at the same time is a pretty unique offering.
Jeremy Weisz 19:26
I’m curious, maybe the cadence of meetings internally, with the team, could be with you and team or just themselves, because from a management perspective, what does that look like?
Whitney Geller 19:43
The team always does a meeting on Monday morning, that’s just like a regroup. It almost ends up being people talking about their weekends, but it’s important just to kind of, again for almost a cultural piece, and then a little bit about what’s happening in the week. And then Tuesday, there’s an in-person meeting where everybody gets together and kind of goes over the whole status of all the projects. And we’ve toiled over the years whether the whole studio needs to be present for all the little details, but it actually does, because then people know what’s going on, they’re able to pitch in where needed.
And it just, it helps for us to be sort of like the whole studio is really a part of everything. If somebody has an idea, they can throw it out there, that sort of thing. And then there’s the management team, which also has a weekly meeting. That’s the leadership team. There’s a resourcing team, where they will meet and talk about, who needs to be on what for the week, and Yasemin and I have a lot of independent meetings with like, so we’ll meet with Hannah to talk about new business stuff, we’ll meet with Jackie who’s running the studio creatively to talk about what’s happening there. We’ll meet with Emily, who’s our finance director, to talk about what’s happening on that level. And then we meet with the leadership team as a whole and join status meetings from time to time.
Jeremy Weisz 20:56
I’m curious how you transition your time, as Jems got bigger, and you have more responsibilities.
Yasemin Emory 21:05
I think luckily, we were able to, when we launched Jems, we launched a website, and we had product in hand. But obviously it takes a long time to build relationships with retail partners. And so I think there was a transition period where we were still doing a lot on the Whitman Emorson side, but getting Jems off the ground. And then once the leadership team was sort of running smoothly and operating really well together, I think we were able to ramp up with Jems, which was perfect, because I think it was the time to put more time and energy into marketing, PR operations, all those sides of it.
Whitney Geller 21:52
Well, and truly, when we launched Jems, the idea, it was the depths of the pandemic, Yasemin and I had just had another baby, we thought we’d never really been a big fan at Whitman Emorson of awards, because it’s anybody that knows, and in this world knows, it means you spend a ton of money entering them, you spend a ton of time doing it. And it’s really a race of who has the most time and money to enter the awards. So it’s never really been our thing. But we thought, what if we could build something that would be a calling card for the agency.
So if we could do everything from soup to nuts in terms of a brand, and launch it? Can we show what you can do when you’ve done everything, right? Or been thoughtful about everything. So that was really the sort of genesis of the idea. And Yasemin, I have always been packaging and sort of CPG nerds, we follow all kinds of founders and brands forever, like other people would follow musicians or bands. And so for us, it was really a playful exercise. And that’s how it kind of, I think really transitioned because it was almost something we were saying, like you asked us about what we do for new business, we don’t do a lot of outreach, we get a lot of RFPs. It’s all referrals, we thought, “we’ll build this and they will come.” That was sort of the idea.
Jeremy Weisz 23:03
What’s interesting, and if you’re listening to the audio, there is a video piece and we’re on the Whitman Emorson site, and you can see, Jems, you treat Jems as a client, right. And so you can see some of the work here on the page from Jems. And so, just talking about why, when I first was researching, I got Jems and like, I think I’m reading this right, they have a condom company, am I on the right people? Why Jems? Why the condom company?
Yasemin Emory 23:40
Well, as Whitney said, we were both in between pregnancies, and she actually called me from the pharmacy and said, have you been in the condom aisle recently? This is absolutely atrocious. I don’t know who this industry is speaking to. But I feel so alienated. And we started paying attention to it. And we knew right off the bat, if we felt alienated, there were a slew of other people who also felt alien, and we still can’t really figure out who exactly is being targeted in that aisle. And fundamentally, we did more research, unfortunately, STIs are skyrocketing at the moment.
And this isn’t something I think enough people know about, but the numbers are scary, and it is reaching epidemic levels. And part of the problem is this idea that there’s so much shame and stigma to going in and buying this product and using this product. And so, part of the backstory of Whitman Emorson is just understanding that design can really changed perception and change behavior. And so why not take that approach with something like condoms, where we can have really impact health implications, or health outcomes for good? So that was truly how the idea came about.
And then we were lucky in a lot of ways, now understanding what it’s like to start a CPG company, we were lucky to be able to find a top manufacturer right off the bat, and we were also lucky that condoms are a really high margin items. So those were sort of two things that we, I would say were more luck than strategy on our end. So that’s why in addition to it being an amazing case study for Whitman Emorson, we quickly realized there’s a real business here.
Jeremy Weisz 25:43
Yeah, that’s interesting, because I mean, I’m sure people go at it from different angles. Some people were like, hey, what’s a high margin item that you’re selling in the pharmacy section, or whatever? And you’re like, oh, this is, I mean, you probably would have known pretty quickly if you tried to sell it. And there was not much profit margin in there as it turned out, and you tackled some of those things. I’m wondering, what are some things that you found that you had to overcome, like the manufacturing, but before we talk about, let’s talk about the design for a second, like we’re here on the page, Jems, I mean, I have to ask how you came up with this constellation. This is fun, playful, really interesting. Here, because I’m scrolling through, obviously, it catches the eye, talk about the thought process of coming up with this.
Whitney Geller 26:36
I mean, so really, the backstory is this idea that, the way that sex has always been pitched in the condom aisle is that you need extra stuff to make you a good performer. And it taps into that idea that nobody feels like they’re enough, and there’s a lot of shame. And then there’s this performative part where it’s like, you’re some Trojan riding in on a horse. And that’s what’s been projected. And that’s terrifying. And the reality is, especially for young people like sex is this thing that’s totally can be embarrassing, and funny, and awkward and silly and beautiful, and a whole host of different emotions and things and not just sort of this one linear experience.
So we wanted to tap into that with the design. So we call our colors alien, green, and blue, they’re universally almost awkward together. But for some reason, they’re harmonious. We call the company Jems, because there’s an affiliation with a Jem being a positive, shimmering thing. And that kind of mimicked almost the foil to us. And for us, it was really about just creating something that felt very playful and approachable and something that you wouldn’t mind leaving on your desk, and somebody seeing it and breaking down these kinds of barriers. So, the constellation is just a playful way to break down some of these ideas that are sort of out of the scope of sex that’s usually spoken about in this regard.
Jeremy Weisz 28:09
Some things you had to tackle, right, you had to tackle manufacturing, right, you had to tackle distribution-wise, what do you do? And how did you get it out in the world to begin with?
Yasemin Emory 28:25
So, yeah, we basically, we joined some trade shows very early on not really knowing what they were in, or how to operate them. But it did lead us to have some pretty great conversations with some great retailers. And those conversations kind of gave us this sense of product market fit, because what we understood very quickly was that retailers saw the whitespace in the market, this is an area of pharmacies and grocery stores that is not thriving. And there has been little innovation or change in far too long. And so those conversations with retailers sort of gave us an understanding of what gap, we’re filling it and the fact that there is a true need for this product.
We’ve made a great headway in the sort of natural grocery space. We’re the only condom in Whole Foods in Canada. And so that’s a very natural fit for us. Our intention is very much to be found in all grocery store and pharmacy stores that you would expect to find condoms because condoms are one of those things where you kind of want to get it when you need it. And so while we of course have our own DTC channel, it’s not necessarily our primary distribution, play because we need more convenience than that. And in fact, we’re sort of exploring some more online delivery platforms as well, because we see it as the kind of thing if you want to get it in 15 minutes, we want you to have it in 15 minutes. So we have a real omni-channel approach.
Retail is a huge part of it. And we’re also doing some more unconventional retail plays. And so we see beyond sort of grocery store and pharmacies we know we can be retailers that our competitors can’t be. And so we’re really interested in exploring the beauty and wellness space. And that really plays into sort of changing the perception of condoms as well. And so is it not seen as a medical thing that you get at the pharmacy? Is it seen as a wellness product that you can grab at a beauty retailer, and along with your lip gloss and your hand sanitizer, or sunscreen, that kind of thing?
Jeremy Weisz 30:54
Yeah, so when you say unconventional, that’s kind of where my mind goes, I have two daughters, and we always want to go to Ulta or cooking or something. So is that what you kind of consider unconventional? It’s people are just going for their beauty products. And it’s there because I’m honestly, I haven’t, like, zeroed in on everything that’s there. I imagine they don’t have condoms there. But maybe, I’m wrong.
Yasemin Emory 31:16
Yeah, no, they don’t. I mean, so sexual wellness is definitely a category that also has been embracing lately. And so, there are steps being made. And so one of the things we’re tackling a little bit is that sexual wellness is booming, it’s becoming much more mainstream, and everybody seems to be excited to have lube and vibrators on shelves. But safer sex products haven’t been as readily embraced. And maybe that’s solely because having a Trojan on the shelf doesn’t make sense. That’s why we’re sort of making this push with retailers where, you really need to round out this category and make sure there’s some products here that are allowing folks to have safer sex and not just focusing on the lube and vibrators as part of the mix.
Whitney Geller 32:06
It’s a really funny thing, though, because everybody assumes it was one of the things I assumed when we got into the condom game was knowing that the government in the 90s spent millions and millions of dollars trying to promote condom use to tackle the AIDS epidemic, knowing that we’re actually at the highest level of STIs in history right now, we would have thought there would be massive platforms to be able to talk about getting condoms out there. And it’s really been the opposite. We’ve been censored and shadow-banned on about any platform you can imagine. And similarly, there’s a lot of retailers too that have problems, they won’t take condoms out of this specific aisle. There’s certain rules you’re not allowed to do because they’re condoms. Everybody’s very worried about the idea of promoting condoms, sort of that age old thing of promote condoms thinks you’re promoting sex, where obviously the research all points to the opposite now.
Jeremy Weisz 32:55
I’m not looking through like any Tic-Tac. Oh, here’s a condom. I mean, it’s crazy when you think about it, yeah.
Whitney Geller 33:04
Yeah, exactly. That’s been a really interesting, interesting thing for us.
Jeremy Weisz 33:10
I want to talk about mentorship for a second, it can be mentorship in the agency, but specifically, when people are entering into a new space, they seek out industry experts, and one of the things you did talk about your decision to do the accelerator.
Whitney Geller 33:31
So, we certainly are in the category of, we feel like we are experts at certain things, we know what we know, we always know that we can learn more. And we are also very, always wanting to talk to people. So we have an amazing network of founders that we speak to actually a lot of female founders, but founders in general, and we’re constantly at least once or twice a week talking to different founders on their experience. And we find that incredibly valuable. We had been a part of this forum program in Vancouver that helps women entrepreneurs, and that had been helpful for us in terms of letting us know what the role of a founder was, because this is very new to us very different than the agency side.
I think what we were looking for now was more kind of advice, connections on about fundraising, and how you accelerate your business in that way. So we joined to be a part of dream ventures, which is incredible. And it’s led by Annie Evans, and Kelly Arena, and they’re both in the VC world and they have so much knowledge and their mission really, is to share that with other female entrepreneurs. I believe was only point 6% of venture dollars this year went to female founders. So the idea is with more education, more connections that you can impact that and so far, it’s been amazing and we’re really excited about it. Where is it? It’s based in New York.
Jeremy Weisz 35:03
So do you have to go how’s the program work? Do you have to actually go there and live for a while or?
Whitney Geller 35:08
As much as our families would absolutely love that, no, we were actually going tomorrow for an event, we’re actually gonna just gonna go for the night, unfortunately. And then there’s an event at the end, in March, that’s in person, but otherwise, the rest is conducted over zoom.
Yasemin Emory 35:31
The opportunity for us is also to nurture more of a US-based network as well. So Canada and the US, we’re seeing certain differences, both in terms of how retailers embrace our product, but I think also how investors embrace our product. US is just more open and more understanding, I think, at times have certain types of investments as well as certain type of CPG products. And so that’s really part of the drive of why we wanted to connect directly with the dream ventures.
Jeremy Weisz 36:10
And the evolution of you say, I know what the agency you bootstrapped to talk about the evolution of bootstrap versus raising money with Jems.
Yasemin Emory 36:25
Yeah, so because we had Whitman Emorson as a launching pad for Jems, we were able to bootstrap. We treated it very much like a client, as you said, and so we just allocated resources and time in studio to put toward it, I think, once we decided that this was going beyond the idea of a calling card project, and it was moving into a real business, we raised a small friends and family around, that helped us to take on certain things, we did a little bit of PR work, we did a much more robust marketing push. And then it gave us sort of, we were able to push ahead with some of those initiatives.
We’re currently at an inflection point where we are deciding if we want to continue to bootstrap or potentially raise again, with this idea of really being able to market support retailers get brand awareness out specifically on college campus. And so, because of our experience with Whitman Emorson, we’re really comfortable and familiar with being nimble, and almost taking a more grassroots approach with things. But we know that, especially as early entrants in this industry, there is a pay-to-play component, and we don’t want time to be the thing that prevents us from launching in a really meaningful way.
So this is sort of the moment where we are and I think with our work with Dream Ventures, we’re learning more about the process, we’re trying to understand the climate, which has 2024 is a much different climate than it was even early 2023. So we’re trying to really understand all of these factors and decide what is the right step for us in the next year?
Jeremy Weisz 38:29
I love how you, there’s just a lot of opportunities, like from the conversation, it seems like from the Health and Beauty space, and you mentioned, like college campuses, I’m sure, in the past, condom companies are not targeting like sororities, or something just seem odd. But are there any other opportunities that you see that are underutilized? I don’t know why my mind goes to kind of, do people get like celebrities endorsing these type of products?
Whitney Geller 39:01
For sure, I mean, the celebrity game is even different from five years ago, in terms of products, like celebrities are constantly launching their own CPG things right now. So there’s very structured ways in general that celebrities will work with brands. But certainly, we have a partnership in Canada with Canberra, which is like the National AIDS organization, their youth arms exploit, so we have a national partnership with them. So there’s ways we really are doing so much work in the nonprofit space. Similarly, we work with Seekest in the US.
So that’s one way that you know, more well-known people would want to get involved and push the good message along. Yeah, and it’s important, it’s important for people to identify like, we’ve tried to give platforms really to people in this space that have not had a platform before to be able to kind of reach out to their audiences and speak about why this is important.
Jeremy Weisz 39:52
Yeah, actually, that makes sense that partnerships in general seem like the big opportunity and also with nonprofits, especially with kind of your mission and brand and what it stands for. First of all, I’ve one last question, I just want to say thanks for sharing your journey, and everyone can check out whitmanemorson.com. To learn more, they can check out jemsforall.com to learn more, my last question is just about lessons learned. We talked about mentors, we talked about dream ventures, what some, it can be lessons with someone from Dream ventures or a different mentor, what’s one of the lessons learned maybe from each of you from that end?
Whitney Geller 40:38
I mean, I think something that has been pressed upon us recently, which is sort of, queuing to what Yasemin was speaking about, about whether to bootstrap or can raise is this idea that, there’s this idea of hyper-growth that’s really come in with the tech industry in the last 15 years, and this need for companies to accelerate their growth to these massive, huge companies and to take on all this debt. And then there’s kind of an opposite side, which is the way businesses have been running for over 100 years, which is just kind of incrementally grow and be profitable. And I think some of the advice that we’ve gotten lately is, make sure your business is solid, make sure it’s really efficient in this climate. And I think that’s kind of the angle that we’re leaning to, and not that the ambitions aren’t to grow it. But to really do this in an efficient way. I think that’s some of the best advice that we’ve been hearing lately.
Yasemin Emory 41:33
I think what comes to mind for me is, I think as founders that stumbled upon being founders, because we didn’t, as you sort of put earlier, we didn’t approach this and I think some ways that typical founders might approach it. I think, what we’re learning from our mentors, to speaking with other female founders at Dream Ventures is building sort of overcoming this idea of imposter syndrome and building up a confidence to speak to command, to celebrate your wins, to command sort of the attention of investors in a way that I think is, personally not a comfort zone, but something that I’m becoming more and more comfortable with.
And I think I heard somebody referred to it as the ultimate sales job to be a founder because you look at different companies with different valuations. And the only thing that’s different is how a founder has been able to pitch their idea. And so that really is something that we’re working on that we’re excited to hone a little bit and also, like Whitney said, change this horrifying stat of female founders and venture capital.
Jeremy Weisz 42:55
Well, I just want to be the first one to thank both of you. Everyone, check out the websites, check out more episodes, the podcast, and we’ll see everyone next time. Thanks Whitney, thanks Yasemin.
Yasemin Emory 43:07
Thanks so much.
Whitney Geller 43:07
Thanks so much.
