Search Interviews:

Jeremy Weisz 6:39

Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, if someone else is listening to this, then obviously we publish it live. But one of the things you’re we’re talking about was how this system in process has been amazing for partnerships, but also how you’ve used it to form a staff perspective and retaining staff and keeping staff happy. And, and lucky for everyone else, maybe because John couldn’t be on the call. So I was like, Can we record it? And so he can actually listen to it afterwards, as well. So yeah, so I’d love for you to kind of what you’re, you know, kind of generous enough to walk us through what’s working with partnerships, but also that same process that you’re using for your staff. And I just want to comment on your journey for a second. You know, it’s always the 15 year success overnight situation and kind of hashtag t shirt for you hashtag entrepreneurship, which is, you know, one day is amazing. One day is crazy. And crap hits the fan that it’s amazing. So yeah, is

Shannon Hansen 7:44

what it is. Yep, very true. So this, I will just jump into this. Jeremy, if you don’t mind. The acronym that we use is cramps, CRM, PPS, but we call it cramps, it originated from actually originated from the staffing point of view, I had gone through this big blowup and that in the business. Essentially, what happened was in a short period of time, I lost three to four, like top level people in my organization. And I just blindsided me, I was just like, not only did we like we’ve not we didn’t have the capacity to fill those positions internally. But it was just like, how could all this happen all in the period of like six months. And this just really caused myself and my business partner to reevaluate, like, how did this happen? What was because this all happened at once, like, it wasn’t just one person left and another person left, and it happened over a few periods, a couple of years of time, it happened all at once, like three or four top level people left all at once. And here we are in shambles, that really just forces you to go, what in the world happened, because obviously I was involved in this picture somehow. It wasn’t just like, there was one person they were bad apple and they laughed or whatever. I couldn’t justify it with that, like I had to take that really hard look at it. And so we really started breaking down. What What were the things that went wrong in these people? And it really went back to the selection process. And that’s where it started. We hired wrong to begin with, but you know, what was it? Can we put our finger on it and can we correct it moving forward? Can we do it deliberately so that we avoid those, those situations in the future? We really had some really deep digging to do and what we came up with is called cramps. It’s a pretty simple system. Five or six factors to very simple scoring system. All there’s five out of the six factors that are very simple, pretty straightforward to score and there’s One factor that’s it’s more, it’s more challenging. It’s it really is a skill that has to be, I found learned. But it’s something that it’s not a terribly difficult skill to learn. But it is a skill that has to be learned nonetheless. But we found that when an individual comes in our organization who fits the cramps model, we went from a 30% retention rate of employees to over 80%. So that alone is huge, because we’re, we’re not experiencing all of this sort of attrition of people leaving it, and sometimes after years being with the company, which is even more damaging than if they leave, you know, after a few months. But that’s where everything really actually started to get better, what we realized is like, after a period of time of using this process, what happened was our organization, if you think of it, like we had a dirty pond to begin with, some of the bad apples left pond got a little bit cleaner, but we’ve started some cleaning up to do over a period of time, we’re able to sort of eject all of the rest of this sort of contaminants in this pond, and only allow fresh water into the stream that fits our criteria. It took us about it took us about a year to really see that this was actually starting to work. And the pond was getting cleaner. And what happened was our organization,

really just the culture and the organization became so um, I don’t even know words to describe it. Like, obviously, incredibly more effective. If you were to sit on one of our team calls, you know, before and after you go, this is not the same company, it’s a totally different company. Team calls now are more, I think, like playtime than anything else. And I think that that just goes against the grain of probably every notion of sort of corporate America, it’s like this is business time, we need to be serious here are conference calls, you’ll hear people frequently cracking jokes laughing at it’s just our I want to say our culture, but the atmosphere that’s on our calls is just so incredibly positive. There’s there’s nobody in the organization that anybody else is sort of afraid to approach or doesn’t want to work with or, you know, are difficult to work with the the sort of alignment of the entire organization, really, it’s just crystal clear, clarify, everybody’s on the same page. And everybody wanted to be there. There’s nobody who is like just punching the clock to, you know, to get their, our dollars per hour, or whatever it is, there’s no more of those people in the organization. We really just have a team filled with passionate people. And a lot of that is because they come from other places, like everybody’s been through different positions or different companies and have different company experiences. And they come into our company. And at first, it seems like, what, what’s up with these people like they’re, they’re laughing, they’re cracking jokes, like, I don’t get this is this like a show? Or is this, you know, is this for real. And it tends to take like three to four months before people go, Wow, this is like, this wasn’t just a one time thing. This wasn’t like somebody’s birthday party or whatever, it’s just constant. And they sort of they, they come into the organization really at that point, and they realize what we’re doing. And because of that, we created a an organization that really is sort of self cleansing, I would say, in the odd event that we hire wrong and bring somebody in who’s not a fit, the organization will object, that person because they don’t, they don’t line up. And we’re pretty good at recruiting and prospecting and bringing people into the company. But still, we’re like 80%, good, like there’s one in five that we do have to let go of. But the point of it is that the organization actually will I’ll have people come to me or to one of the managers ago, this person, we thought they were going to be a fit, but they’re just not working out. So we’ll be able to eject them quickly. We keep the pond really clean. And the great. The great thing is that the pond is so clean, everybody’s on the same page, enjoying the heck out of what we’re doing. The productivity levels and the effectiveness levels levels. Were in performance marketing and our we were looking at every dollar we spent today and how many dollars that’s generating at least in one of our larger businesses. There are effectiveness at turning the advertising dollar into return on investment has just skyrocketed our just our average ROI on our campaigns which is through the roof. It just the overall effectiveness of the organization has gone up just quantum leaps, essentially in effectiveness. So that’s where it started. And then once we got this amazing sort of success out of this really took, like, really started, like about the two year mark after, after coming up with this system, it became more refined, we really started seeing the results. And I started a while, how else can we apply this, and we started applying it to, to our external partnerships in other companies that were partnered in. And we just found similar results. I mean, it’s just almost like crystal clear alignment. No friction with external partners, very high performance partners that were able to sort of attract with this experts in their particular parts of business. And were able to I just like, sometimes I just pinch myself, some of the people I’ve been able to partner with, I just go Wow, they’re so good at what they do. And and, and we’re able to partner with them, because mostly because of cramps and how we select them. So we’ll go through the the cramps model, startup recruiting model, but really, it’s like, at this point, it’s like human selection model like, this is what we use, this is what I use for everyone that I consider that we’re going to work with in any fashion, whether it be a client, a partner, in a company, or an employee, we use the same formula, and everything fits within that. And sometimes you’ll find a person who doesn’t score well enough in this to justify being a partner or an employee. And that’s okay, because you can still have them as a client, for instance, or you can have still have some kind of relationship with them, it’s just that they’ll never come into your inner circle and sort of

muddy up your waters in your pond, so to speak. So there’s six factors to the scoring on cramps, it’s a very simple scoring system, it’s just we score, each one of these factors will go through them, we score each one on a scale of one to 1010 is the highest possible score. We average the results after after we score each one of the criteria. And a person cannot score less than a seven out of a 10 in any one particular area. So if there have one out of 10, if they’re a 10, out of 10, and five areas, and they’re one out of 10 in the other area, it’s still a no go as far as a partnership or an employee. So five out of these six are going to be pretty straightforward, like you’re gonna look at a negate all that makes sense, that’s pretty straightforward. And they’re pretty easy to score. One other thing we found with this is when you’re interviewing people, you’ll quite often find that, you know, if you’ve got multiple people interviewing, for, you’ve got multiple people on your staff who are interviewing for somebody coming into the company, you’ll find that their cramped scores for this particular prospect, or recruit are very similar. So it has this effect of like, when you start scoring people in this way, it’s like the team just really gets in alignment much easier. It’s not like oh, one person liked him, the person didn’t, everybody’s pretty much on the same page at scores. So five out of the six are pretty simple. The C is for coachable. And coachable is a pretty simple one to score. There’s there’s just two ways two things that I look for in an interview or in the partnership. One is do they ask questions? And two? Do they take feedback? Pretty simple, pretty straightforward. You’d be surprised how few people will encourage people to ask questions on interviews, highly encourage them at the beginning of the call, you know, we love questions, please, if you have any questions during the process, you know, give them to us. And you will hear a word out of it. People who don’t ask questions aren’t typically coach. And so if they don’t ask a question, if you can’t force them to answer the question, people sometimes are so wrapped up in their own minds that they’re like, oh, it’d be too embarrassing. I mean, they can be too embarrassed to ask a question. They could think that they’re too smart to ask question. All of those are uncoachable unfortunately, and feel free to stop me anytime. Jeremy.

Jeremy Weisz 19:36

I was gonna say um, that. You know, you mentioned embarrassing What if they’re just like, really shy and really passive? When they first meet someone? I mean, it probably depends on the position you’re hiring for. Like obviously, if it’s like like a customer support person. You don’t necessarily want someone who’s super shy but let’s say they’re running back in ads for you like they don’t probably need to talk to someone and it’s Okay for their position for them to be shy.

Shannon Hansen 20:02

So So here’s where we test this, actually, I’ll skip ahead to here, the first P is problem solving. And during the problem solving, scoring, and the problem solving can differ depending on whatever the position is. So you may be an Excel skills test, if a person is a virtual assistant, it could be anything, it just really depends on the particular position. But what we do there is we stump the person, we put them to the test, we give them something that’s quite difficult, some kind of a quite difficult problem to solve. And if they’re unwilling, and we again, before we do, the problem solving section will, again, encourage questions like, if you have any questions about this, this exercise or whatever, please ask them. And we’ll stop them. And if they won’t raise their hand, when they’re stopped, it’s an algo. Because

Jeremy Weisz 21:01

it’s a force function to, you know, they if, you know, most likely if someone doesn’t know how to do it, then you almost are forced to ask questions, or you’re just not going to complete it, essentially.

Shannon Hansen 21:15

And sometimes they won’t know how to do it, and they still won’t ask a question. And that gets it, obviously, it gets a little uncomfortable, like, you may have to end the call early. But there’s also the people who’s sort of they’re smart people, you can tell they’re smart, but we’ve, we’ve intentionally put them to the test. But even if they’re smart, and they still won’t raise their hand, it’s still a no go, because what’s going to happen is like, that person’s gonna come up against problems, somehow, whether it’s a problem in the workplace, or it’s a problem with their, their actual tasks that they’re doing, they’re gonna come up against problems. And if they can’t will themselves into going, I need to talk to the expert here, maybe it’s HR, or whatever it is, they can raise their hands. They’re gonna sit in quiet, completely stuck on it. And they won’t tell anybody because they’re too they’re too proud to admit that, that they couldn’t figure it out, especially if they’re a smart person, you know, they come off as smart. They don’t want to, they don’t want to be seen as stupid, because they can’t figure it out. So they’ll spend wild amounts of time and energy and effort trying to figure it out. So they could have just raise their hand and spoken to the correct person in the company, and got the answer to so quickly and been so much more effective. So

Jeremy Weisz 22:40

I’m glad Yeah, so like, these are, these are all interrelated. It’s not like in order. So I’ll let you I’ll let you go through all of them. And I’ll save my questions. Because, you know, they.

Shannon Hansen 22:53

They are related. And so if you come up with a question, please stop anytime. And that’s a good one. Because actually the problem solving section, if a person hasn’t asked any questions throughout the rest of the interview, I’m sitting there going, okay, are we going to hear some questions now in the problem solving section or not? Because it’s, it kind of becomes a game changer at that point if a person has not been willing to ask questions. Similar similarly, with partnerships, the interesting thing about with partnerships, is, frequently I’m a seven out of 10, by the way, and I had to probably get, I had to probably work on myself, I mean, seven out of 10. Because I think a previous life I was, I was less than that. I think most entrepreneurs rank actually less than seven out of 10. On average, they’re they’re not quite willing to be coached. And then you have the people who are like sort of the sort of the habitual info product buyers who are looking to be taught the next thing that whatever, they’re probably super coachable, but it actually is to their detriment, because they’re just like, oh, please tell me how to do something and you need a certain amount of hutzpah. Like, I’m gonna figure this out. Nobody’s gonna tell me how to figure this out. But it’s, it’s a balance there, especially with partners. I like to see a seven out of 10. I’m like, I’m a good partner, because you can challenge me and I’ll go back, and I’ll think about and I go, okay, I get it, you’re actually the stronger partner in this relationship in this way. And you’re the better one to handle this. But I’m also the guy who’s like, well, I want to I want to figure this out, and I want to do it on my own. So I’ve got that balance. And I think good partners, if you’re looking at partnerships, I like the seven out of 10. With with team members, that gotta be at least a seven out of 10 the whole problem backing up slightly to this to the numbers scale and how we score these people. And they have to be a seven out of 10 or higher. The problem was six out of 10 You need a player’s in your business. And they need to be an eight plus, in order to qualify as a as an A player, they’ve actually got to score eight out of 10, or better on average throughout this, and I need an eight out of 10 plus person. So if a person comes in and they’re a six out of 10, coachable, I can probably get them to a seven out of 10. Just that one number difference, but getting him to go from a six to an eight, the probability of it happening and the sort of resistance that you encounter and trying to sort of make that happen, it just makes it not worthwhile, it’s a risky bet, it’s probably going to take a lot of time. And the person’s, if they’re a six out of 10, coachability, there’s a good shot that they’re just going to leave when you start pressing them to be more coachable. So that’s how come seven out of 10 or greater, I’m get a seven to an eight, seven out of 10, they’re already reasonably effective. Getting them to go to an eight is usually pretty easy. And you might be able to get them to go to a nine, which is great. But that’s how come we’re seven out of 10. So the art part, moving forward here, ours for reliable. And this, like I said, a lot of this is it is common sense that we just don’t sit and break it down and have to score and

simple things that you didn’t look for in a person’s resume or in their professional life like you and John, partners for 10 years. That’s a significant amount of time, I look at resumes, and I go, how many, as this person had three plus years, at a particular job position company, whatever, three years plus, for me, is an indication of reliability. It’s not necessarily the game changer, I mean, I’m still gonna want to have, I’m gonna have additional questions for them. But three plus years, I’m looking for that on their resume, if they’re really young, there’s a chance they haven’t had a chance, they haven’t had an opportunity at a decent company to be able to stay three years. So it’s not necessarily like I see a young VA or virtual assistants resume. And they’re 22. And they don’t have a three year stint. It’s not a game changer. There are a deal breaker. But I will be testing it on the interview and simple way we test. We just tell him to show up 15 minutes early. And do they show up early for the call, or they don’t they? I mean, we’ve probably a lot of us have had these interviews where the person shows up late or they don’t show up, they have some excuse. I mean, look at your numbers and go, how many of those actually worked out because the person will almost always beg for Oh, had I got caught up. I was someone who was at the hospital and, and my dog died on the way and I got into a car crash. And I don’t know how much of that is true. But what I can tell you is from the numbers, that people who don’t show up early for their interviews, it’s like a just a exceedingly rare chance that they’re going to show up for the second one. So we just don’t We don’t we do not schedule a second interview. I just don’t do it no matter what the song and dance is or who died. I mean, it’s it is kind of unfortunate if somebody did actually die. But I suspect that a lot of these things are actually excuses and nobody actually died. Nobody actually went to the hospital. They actually got in a car wreck. I don’t know. But I can just tell you that from the numbers. They don’t show up early. It’s just really, really rare that they’re going to work out. Let me stick

Jeremy Weisz 28:36

on the reliable for one second is, you know, what’s the process before the interview? Because they may show their colors before? I don’t know if there’s emails or other things that they have to give you that that weeds them out?

Shannon Hansen 28:50

That’s a great question. I have my executive assistant. Basically, she sorts through all the candidates and one of her qualifications is anybody who responds to whatever job postings are ads, she will have specific instructions within that posting of what to do. And it’s usually respond with this particular three pieces of information. As they don’t respond with the three pieces of information. They’re out, like get to respond with the three things we asked for, they respond to the three things. She does some initial screening to just go does this. Does this person’s resume look like it works out or whatever? Some just very basic initial screening and it looks like they may be a candidate. what she’ll do is she will go to them kind of on last minute notice and not necessarily last minute, but she’ll go look, we’re interested in interviewing you. We have these time slots in the next 48 hours, which you choose. And frequently what we find actually is the people who are actually really reliable, they’ll know give me the first one. I’ll make time I’ll break out of work I’ll do You know, whatever, I’ll do the zoom in the parking lot, or wherever, they’ll make time for it. So frequently, it’s not necessarily a deal breaker. But frequently, what we find is people go first one, whatever the first one is, I want to be there. Now, if they go, I know I can’t, none of those times work for me or whatever. It’s disqualification, like, if you can’t find a time find a way to make this happen to get on the interview, how reliable really already, because that’s what a really reliable person is, right? When they’re challenged, they find a way to still come through on the thing that they that they that they promised, right, so that’s what you want. So that’s some streets, some sort of pre filtering there that we do. And it I mean, we typically typically almost

Jeremy Weisz 30:50

like three different some people just won’t even respond. So they filter themselves out, some people respond with the wrong information, they filter themselves out, and then some people will at that point of let’s schedule something, you know, like, Well, I’m not sure I can make it happen. So there’s kind of almost three filters, even before they get to the interview part of the reliability.

Shannon Hansen 31:11

Yeah, and just to break the numbers down just in rough, rough brushstrokes. For a particular job posting will typically get like 200 resumes or responses back to it out of those 200, my assistant will, she’ll filter it down through those through those three basic things, to about 12 people. And out of those 12 people, about half of them won’t show up to the interview at the time that was required. And that’s only now we’re down to six people. And out of those six people, we will generally have one or two hires, it’s not a guarantee, it’s really a rough rule of thumb. But we typically see one to two who are hireable. And out of those two people, we’ve gotten a lot better, I used to be like we we’d end up letting if we hired two, we’d let one go within 90 days. But now we’re we’re pretty dialed in on this. And there’s not i i can think of one person we did have to let go after we hired them. But it’s really now thinking about it like we’re our our hiring percentage is really quite high as probably near 80%. Like when we hire, we don’t have to let people go, because we really screened him so well. Um, okay, so the am I’m gonna, I’m gonna skip over because it’s the trickiest part, we’ll go through the last two here really quickly, because they’re pretty simple and straightforward. And then we’ll get into what the end is for probably the most intriguing part of the formula. It’s the skill based part, it takes some skill, you have to actually learn how to do it, in order to be effective at it. I’ll get to in a minute what it is. But the other key is just a person ability. This is a really simple one. And all it is is would you invite this person over for dinner at your house? Would you would you? Would you mind spending an evening with him conversing, talking, sharing, you know, life stories, whatever you want. It’s very simple one and people tend to really agree on like, you have a team who’s who’s interviewing these candidates, almost always the person Ability One, people will really agree like their numbers will be very consistent on how they score people there. And then S is for superpower. And not everybody has a superpower. And that’s okay. I probably should have given it a different color here. Because the S is optional. I’ve got plenty of people on the team who don’t necessarily have superpowers, the great team members super reliable, just awesome for the company. But they don’t necessarily have a superpower. They’re dependable, or they’re well skilled. They get dependent great, great attitude as to the team. But there are people and in every organization I think a lot of people that are a lot of entrepreneurs have experienced this proves their potential and their, their their potential for driving the company forward in one. Maybe one particular area is phenomenal. Like I’ve got a few of these people and they just they make huge differences and in your company in that one particular way that they’re just so yeah, it was just like they were just born to do that, like my assistant. just her organizational level is just on another level. I’m not a super organized person. Maybe that’s how come I appreciate it so much by her organization level is stratospheric compared to mine. I’ve just got other people who are just incredible and other different ways that I could never approach their effectiveness. So not only He has a superpower, you can sometimes see it come out or a call out a recruiting call, you get off the phone, you’re like, wow, that person could really, you know, they can turn, they could really turn this division is team up another notch, those kinds of things. So if they don’t have a superpower doesn’t go against, if there’s no superpower, that’s fine. We’ll score on the top five will average on the top five. And we take that part out, so it doesn’t go against them. But if they do have a superpower, I’m definitely going to keep that in mind for where I placed this person and how, how am I have a team push them on? Maybe they’ve got creative leadership potential? I don’t know. But we’ll take that in consideration with how we’re going to work with them, and what kind of things we’re going to give, put on their plate? Because we want to, we want to basically leverage that superpower, you find

Jeremy Weisz 35:55

Shannon with that superpower. Sometimes it’s not apparent on the initial call, and it comes out later, or is it something that you find typically is glaringly obvious from the beginning?

Yeah, it’s kind of like 5050 shot like sometimes you see people, you’re like, holy crap, I know where this person can go. It’s just clear as day like, they’re so good at one thing, and a lot of times they don’t see it themselves, for whatever reason. It’s kind of odd. So yeah, like half the time, that’s the case. And then yeah, probably a good half the time as well, like, we got one individual I’m thinking of who came over, he was in a sales position previously. And quite honestly, I didn’t. This was kind of before we actually had cramps in place, I wasn’t convinced that he was a fit to hire, but he had a great energy to him. And it turns out, it was that energy. He is just like, super motivated teams. And I can move him from one team to another. And he’ll make the second team incredibly motivated and incredibly effective. And then they’ll move on to another team. Like, I did not see that coming. And we’re able to pull it out of him by looking back on it. Yeah, it was a superpower. Like this guy can turn up the energy. I mean, that to I mean, they just can’t, he’s just got that infectious energy. And he’s learned how to sort of turn it on, and like take it to another level. And that’s one of the things we’ve worked with him on was like, and then you got this gift, I don’t think you realize that you have this gift, I don’t think you realize how much you how much of an effect you have on people. But test this out, you know, purposefully amp up your energy on a call and just listen and observe how the rest of people on the call, respond to that. And it was just, I remember doing that experiment with this. This particular person A, he got off the call, and he reached out to me he’s like, it’s like, I’m blown away. Like, I never knew that I had this power. I’m like, Yeah, I can see it. You didn’t, but I could see it. So that’s one of the superpowers about not everybody has it, that’s okay. If they don’t necessarily have that they don’t have to have super parents plan, just solid, dependable people who will who will do their job, and then some who don’t necessarily have a superpower. So the M, the M is the trickiest one. And the M stands for motive. And motive. This piece is really like you could take the rest of them. And I think if you took motive out

Shannon Hansen 38:40

fine, still work like you’d definitely, definitely get better people. But the motive part is really what makes this whole thing work and motive, to me is just what makes a person do what they do. And just as a side note, people can have more than one motive, they frequently view probably the standard is that a person will have one primary motive. They may have some secondary motives that aren’t there. I won’t say they’re insignificant, but they’re if you view this like as a horse race, and you got a horse that’s out in front by seven or eight links, like it, that’s the primary motive like you’ve got this primary motive is out in front is driving the person so heavily that all the other motives that they might have are really a distant second, and they almost are insignificant. Now, there are other people who have motives that are much closer to each other like it’s a race for first and second. We don’t know which one at any point in time might be winning the race. And there are also it’s rare, pretty exceedingly rare, but I have a partner In a agency business right now, who actually has a triple motive, and she’s got three of these things, and they’re really close to each other. And depending on what their motives are, that can be, it can be really great for a business. But it can also be really distracting if they’re constantly sort of fighting it out. And there’s, there’s a list of, I’ll be happy to share the list of like common motors, I’ll go through a few of them here, I’ll go through some of the no goes if I like see a person with some of the no GM motors, the whole deal is off, I don’t care if I don’t care. I don’t care if it’s Jeff Bezos, I don’t care who it is, like, if they’ve got a motive that’s on my nogo list, they won’t, I won’t be a partner with them, maybe I can have them as a client, it’s potential, I have some clients who have motives that are on my nogo list. And they’re fine. But when you really start digging into motive, and you get some experience around it, you start to learn how to work with pretty much everybody, you won’t necessarily invite Him into your inner circle or be a partner with him. But I’ll just share like one of the common no go modems is power and control. These people who want to dictate everything, control the deal, it’s all power, power driven. It’s a no go, I can’t recruit, that person can’t be a part of my team, they definitely won’t be a partner of mine. Because you know, you’ll constantly be in this battle of who’s got power and control in the company. And you’re like, how did I get pulled into this? Because I’m not, I’m not somebody who’s normally wants to be like, I have all the power and control. But I feel like I’m being controlled by this other person. And now I have to put all this energy into it. power and control is a common one. These people Yeah, I say I use power and control all the time as an example with a team because these people when they come across, they’re fairly. They’re fairly rare. But when they come across, they just leave this indelible print in your mind, you’re just like, ah, Kidal, I don’t like that person. Because if they just walk up, if you allow them to day’s walk all over you, and it just feels crappy. So everybody’s had experience with those people, but to really, to really hone in and go, what makes this person tick, they need more power and control. That’s what drives them. Everything they do is another step in getting power and control. And they don’t care if it’s over a person, over a business deal over whatever. Everything in their mind is about power and control. And when I really realized this, and I really started digging into it further with a power and control mode, if I realized, well, the interesting thing is that motorists like

motorists will just like, like a person who has a power and control motive, they will go towards power and control. And they will run the other direction away from lack of power and control. So you put you can, you can strategically drive, a negotiation, class, a sale, anything like this, because power control motors, and actually all of the motors that are on the list, people respond incredibly predictably to their motive, I know that power and control person will move towards a position of what they see as power control. And they will move away from a position of not being in power and control. And a simple, just a simple example of this, if you’re in sales is the takeaway, you do a takeaway on a power and control person and go look, you know, and either you buy it today or the or you buy the ad today, it’s going to press in the morning, it’ll be out of my hands, you won’t be able to do it in the morning. So you want to do it or not. It’s the takeaway, and they’re gonna lose control and lose power unless they buy that app. That day, they will buy that that almost 100% or attack. So predictably, incredibly predictably. Now it’s uncomfortable, because you have to put them in this position, intentionally and strategically. But they’re so predictable. And so I like having them as clients, because I know exactly how they function. And I know exactly what needs to be done. And it’s like, every month needs to be another deadline. And you let them know the deadline and they do the thing. It’s always right the last minute because they don’t want to give you that power and control all the way through. They want to do the last minute so predictable, but I know they’re gonna buy at the last minute, every time. I’m just very predictable. Other nodo motives, attention, plenty of people who just thrive off of attention. You know, many times that will come through and just their level of dress, you know, it’s just like people who like have this Have a little dress or makeup, or, or, or jewelry or perfume that just like, it’s this like stands out like you can’t like not can’t like not look at this person or not give them attention. Usually they have attention on it. And they will respond to you giving them more attention will give them more energy you taking, taking the attention away from them will push them off. Either way, they won’t get hired in the fight organization that way. I’m not sure really about having clients, those kinds of clients. The thing about the power and control people is they’re usually fairly successful, because they’ve they’ve, they’ve gotten a lot of power and control on the money and resources. So they do make great clients because they got the money for it. The people who have an attention about if they spent all their money on the clothes and the jewelry and everything and they don’t have anything left over to be clients. So they’re not usually great clients. They’re not great. No, not good they have on the team.

So now those I don’t think all right, I don’t think I have enough time to go through all the motives, there’s about a dozen that are pretty, pretty common. One of the more interesting ones is I call it smart guy motive. The thing about people who want to appear, they either want to appear smart to other people, or they want to convince themselves that they’re smart. There, they can be insidious, because one of the things that smart guy motives will do is they will attempt to manipulate situations through third parties, where they stand back and they go ha, this is all going to plan and my my henchmen are out there doing the dirty work for me. And nobody knows that it’s me because I’m so smart. That’s one of the behaviors of smart guy motives. I’ve been caught by that a couple times when I it just like the deal didn’t feel right, it didn’t feel like the people really had the authority to go through with the deal. And I’m like what’s going on here who like feels like there’s just they don’t have, they don’t have to be able to close the deal. Come to find out it was this, this third party person who is manipulating all of them, and wanting to sort of stay in the shadows. So that’s kind of an it’s can be an insidious one. But they’re also smart people. And if you if you get on to this, and you realize that this is some of the games, they play, the game kind of becomes up you’re like, again, I know what you’re, I know what you’re trying to do, and I see through it. But some of the motors we love to hire people that have helped motors haven’t talked to you and John a while since we really went into this. But I suspect that there’s very strong health motives between the two of you, I’m not sure if their primary. But there’s definitely some health motives going on there guys like to help people create creative motives. That one can be that can surface in a number of different ways. I mean, maybe they want to create the world’s biggest business. Maybe they want to paint a painting, maybe they want to be a writer, graphic designer, creative motors are great. The thing about creative Mona’s is they have to be focused, and you as a business owner, or partner, if you have a partner or employee who’s got a creative motive, that’s like a primary creative motive, ya have to keep them focused. Otherwise, they just keep painting that that canvas, and they’re never done with it, right. So you have to keep those people focused. But they also can produce some amazing just stunning graphics and writing and who knows what else that they can produce, um, growth motives. I love growth and achievement together. They’re pretty closely related. There’s some nuances, but I love growth and achievement. Most people who want to grow, they usually want to grow personally. We’re big in performance marketing, they want to grow their stats, they want to grow their revenue, their return on investment, they get off on that. So those are those are big ones that we hire for. So it’s like help create growth and yeah, the growth and achievement motives, those are all create motorists. hard to go wrong unless like with the creative motive, don’t focus them then they’ll get off track. There’s also curiosity Matos. My partner is I think one of the only people who I’ve met who has a primary motive of curiosity. He’s curious about everything. bio science, astronomy, nuclear physics. Computers, like my CTO, very curious about computers. He’s curious better. His bookshelf is a mile high of books that he’s a quarter of the way through, because he’s so curious, he goes on to another book. And curiosity mode is similar to creative motors, you have to keep him focused. Okay, so figuring out, number one, you have to figure out what the motive is. And number two, you got to score this person, how

do you score? Well, I’ll give you cues on the motive you, in order to figure out what a person’s motive is, you really have to start asking them questions and listening for increases or decreases in the energy. And if you find if you actually just listen, the actual increases, or decreases in energy, are pretty apparent if you’re actually listening to them. And going, Okay, what was it before the question? What was it after the question? If I got somebody who’s a growth motive, or I think their growth motive? And I will well, tell me, tell me what your plans are for the next year? I mean, where where do you work? Where do you look at? Are you looking to grow your business? And you’ll frequently go, yeah, you’ll get an answer, like, oh, yeah, you’re my energy too low, say, oh, yeah, I plan on growing this business, I have plans to take it. So you hear that energy rise. And sometimes you can also sense the drop in energy too. But that’s the hallmark, when you hit somebody’s motive and you start, it’s a little bit like the scientific method, we formed this hypothesis, I think this person might be aggressive about it. So I’m going to ask him growth related questions, and see if their energy level goes up. And if I was accurate, I’m gonna hear energy go up. And if I was not accurate, that I need to go back to the drawing board, and ask them different related questions, maybe they like to create. And maybe I need to ask them questions about that. Like, what do you do in your off hours? Oh, I’m a musician. You write your own music? Yeah, I love I love to write music. Okay, here creative motive, I get it. So she had to figure out the motors. And I found that prospecting and recruiting is the perfect place to do this. Because you meet all different kinds of people. I’m not a super social person, maybe, maybe people are more outgoing, but just have the opportunity. To do this more often. I’m an I’m an introvert. So I don’t like necessarily, I’m not around a bunch of people to test this out. But when I get into prospecting, recruiting, I get to basically kind of ask people, whatever questions you want, obviously, with boundaries, so you get to play around with this, and listen again for the increases and decreases in energy, and figure out again, going back to the horse race, what are this person’s motives? Frequently, it’ll be one motive, that’s the primary motive, the rest of the motives are kind of out of the picture, and distant second, and you really have to think about that one motive, get people who have got a double motive or two pretty strong motives, you kind of have to think about how those motives relate to each other is it caused conflict in this person, I’ve got one partner who’s got a creative motive and a curiosity motive, those so again, as long as they’re focused, they can be very potent. But other people, I’ve got another partner who’s a growth and help motive, which is actually similar to my motives, I got a primary motive of achievement, similar to growth, I have a secondary motive of helping other people. But there’s a fair amount of distance there. They’re still in the race together, but they’re not like, neck and neck, this partner that I’m speaking to, they’re neck and neck, like constantly, and this guy is constantly going, well, do I want to grow my business? Or do I want to go home to help these homeless people? And it’s like, and I’m hoping that homeless people in like, oh, shoot, I gotta get back to my business because it’s falling apart. It’s, it’s tormenting to him. And I don’t know how to change the motors. I’m not sure on that part. But you have to put this picture together if this race of like, where what are these motives? And what’s the distance between them? And how do they work together? Is this person going to be able to be effective? That’s really the question, how do you score a motive is, how is that person’s motive going to benefit the business? And in that particular press, business, or it really is? Position, whatever it is that you’re wanting to partner with them or hiring them for? How are those motives going to benefit that position? And that’s how you score the motive situation. And I like to go for the further I go along in this. You’ll find people who you figure out what their motives are, but it’s just kind of like, none of them are really strong. Like they’re not really strongly driving this race, like the race is kind of moving it along, but like the people who are watching are kind of bored to death. You don’t want those people you want somebody who’s got this strong motive that’s in alignment with your business model. And you find that you’re like, holy crap, hey, this guy’s got a super power cow. And this just, it’s gonna be awesome. And when you do that, what you find is that when you match that person, I call it motive architecting. Basically, as I’m looking for the person, what position is, are they going to go into? Are they going to be a partner? How are they going to work with the rest of the team, whoever that might be knowing what their motives are, you need to know that because if you put a bunch of creative motives, all on one team, they’re just gonna all sit there and paint the canvas all day long. And if there’s nobody on that team to focus them, you’re gonna, you’re gonna have a great highly creative team, but not super effective. So you need to put that in context of that person’s motive and the people they’re going to be working with, or they’re going to be working with somebody who’s got like a growth motive. And goes, Yeah, great, I, let’s keep focused on these designs, or this, these articles, or whatever it is. So we can move forward, you got to put those two people together. And this is where I find the most intriguing thing and how come I’ve been so successful with the partnerships. And the staffing and the recruiting is I’m I’m the Puzzle Maker, I’m putting these pieces of the puzzle together. And seeing where these these strong fits are, that you’re not forced fitting the two puzzle pieces together, they just go together like peanut butter and jelly or peanut butter and chocolate. And when they do, it’s just like building a puzzle when you put those last pieces together. And you’re like, oh, it’s complete, just it’s beautiful. Whereas if it was missing that one piece before, you’re like, oh, it’s like so close to being beautiful. But that piece is missing out on what it is. You put the pieces together, and it’s just like, this is beautiful. This partnerships, beautiful, this team is beautiful. This business division is beautiful. I look at my wife and I just celebrated 19 years of marriage. I’m like, Oh, I look back and I’m like, I wasn’t intentionally using cramps back then. But I go yep, we’re a match. I’m a I’m an achievement and help. Motive. My wife is primarily a help motive. And God knows I needed a lot of help to get through the all the times and we were broke and all that stuff. And she was there like she was there helping me in debt another, I don’t know, another growth motive or something, we probably would have butted heads. You know, I can see so clearly now looking back on it, to see How come we’ve been successful. And like I said earlier, I had John here, and we’d probably dig into both of your motors. And I could tell you guys, how come you guys have been successful? 10 years together, I could go well see, I see how these motors, they just line right up together. And you guys are two peas in a pod. Anybody who knows, you guys would say that. But they wouldn’t really realize the fundamentals underneath it to break it down at all I can I see now, how come they work so well together. So that’s cramps.

Jeremy Weisz 57:55

Shannon, that’s amazing. I could hear I know want to respect your time, I could hear the rest of the motives all day long. But I mean, you shared I think seven of the 12 or whatever it is. So when you create this book one day, they’ll have to read and get all 12. But um, just two quick things. One, I don’t know if there’s any specific things on the scoring that you want to talk about, like when we look at these. And I had a question on the motives on the dark side of the motive, maybe that maybe appears that would be good, but maybe it’s not for certain positions. So you know, for instance, let’s say growth, or achievement is good, you’re the owner. But if you’re hiring a growth and achievement, does that mean, you know, is that person really going to create longevity in your business? So like, is there a dark side is somebody’s motives in that example, depending on who you’re hiring?

Shannon Hansen 58:52

Yeah, like when you really start looking at this and you pin down the motives, you start to realize that every motive has its strengths and weaknesses. Part of the heart of the achievement motive weakness is that I get off on tiny achievements. And for a long period of my life, I was just like how get through today, if I get this one little thing, and I would feed myself off of these tiny kernels of achievement, and they’d scratch my itch. And to this day, like, like, I could, the company could be doing $100,000 A year it can be doing $100,000 a minute, and that that both of them can be an achievement, but that the difference in the feeling that I get from those two achievements is basically the same. So I can I can kind of take the easy way, easy way out with all the tiny achievements and I did that for a long time. It wasn’t until I really started realizing that I had this helper motive that I realized wow, you know if I I can help my team do better. And they can provide more revenue for the company, I can actually provide more for them and for their families that really sparked me to go okay, now we now I really need to achieve some big things, because I need to help. I have a lot of we have a lot of people offshore Philippines, Pakistan, I need to help these people be able to put their kids through college to buy homes and all these kinds of things. So Darkside yes, there’s dark sides to all of them. The strengths and weaknesses to all of them. Yeah, you mentioned Well, you know, what’s the person’s just got a really strong growth motive. And, yeah, if there’s not something else to back that up, like a help motive, or create motive or some other way that some other key thing that your organization is going to give to them. Like, in our case, we got like, lots of opportunities to lead in leadership roles in the company. You know, so if you got that primary motive to grow and secondary motive to help others, I got plenty of opportunities for it, you’re going to be able to help lots of people, you’ll be able to see that you’re helping them, which is kind of rare and unique. So that’s going to scratch that itch for them. And, and then and then when they’re getting both of those, those those itches scratched. And somebody inevitably comes and tries to, you know, headhunt them or take them away to another company or whatever they go. No, I don’t I don’t know, over there. I mean, I like the idea of making more money or whatever, but, but like, what would the team environment be like? What will I will I be in the same leadership position? Because I really get a lot of payoff from being in leadership position. And the answer’s no, they’d be like, oh, man, and will the environment be like this here? Like, well, I will I be so well matched with my team I am here, some of those things come into play. But yeah, if you’ve got like a real, somebody who’s got a real strong growth motive, a lot of cases, you need to look at them differently and go, This person may be a better partner than they are in than they are an employee, it just depends on on their skill sets, I mean, then you start looking at skill sets, how your skill sets match up. And if you have something that’s very unique, that’s outside of their skill set, then it may very well be a partnership that can go somewhere. But if you got if I’m a growth motive, in your address motive, I have to be aware of that to go some point down the line, we’re probably going to clash on how we grow this company. And we need to probably hit that off the path and pass and go, How are we going to navigate those things? We’re going to take turns what’s our process for getting through this? Because I know it’s gonna come up, I just don’t know what it’s gonna be about.

Jeremy Weisz 1:02:46

Yeah. So last thing, because I know, I want to respect your time and just talk a little bit about the scoring. Yeah, you know, because at this point, you know, we talked about the coachable, reliable motive problem solving, person ability and superpower. So the interview ends, okay, maybe it’s you, maybe it’s like three people interviewed the person? How do you do you know, think about in, do the scoring piece,

Shannon Hansen 1:03:15

right. So I was self score myself here, my superpower happens to be perseverance, like a persevere through a, like I said, six years of being bankrupt. And I just refuse to take a job. During that period of time. I’m pretty persistent and persevere. And you need that, as an entrepreneur, you want to go somewhere, coachable. Like I said, before, I’m seven out of 10. Reliable, I might be cutting myself short here, I probably made that my motive is really quite strong competition that I did. Problem Solving. And we’re very strong problem solver. Went to school for engineering, a love solving problems, might sometimes go against me sometimes, like create problems that need to be problems, person ability, I’m introverted. So I mean, it depends on who I’m hanging out with probably seven out of 10 I’m not like particularly charismatic, like, just this hours, it’s taken some energy out of me. So I’m not like, outgoing.

Jeremy Weisz 1:04:19

I’m pushing the limits on.

Shannon Hansen 1:04:20

Yeah, that’s fine. To be quite honest with so yeah, here’s my scoring. I don’t know what this average turns out to be. But I can tell you that it’s above eight out of 10. So we add these add all these up loads like 1524 3340 49 out of out of 60 Whatever that comes out to be, and that will be my credit score, which is better than 80%. So apparently, I’m I’m a fit for being the CEO of a advertising company. And I don’t score under, under seven out of 10 in any of the His areas. And to be quite honest with you, one of the things that held me back, this is something I had to work on to get to the seven out of 10 is I was probably five and a half, six, on coachability. And that was really the thing that was holding me back for moving forward. Because I just, I kind of reach out to get the right people’s help when I needed it. And it was holding everything back. I was I was in pretty good shape the rest of the way. But that one was really holding you back.

Jeremy Weisz 1:05:31

When a team member is doing this, you’re like, Shannon, you say, okay, you know, Jane, you’re interviewing this person. Here’s the stuff. Here are the factors and the criteria, do you give them some kind of guideline on? Or is it kind of cut and dry, because I feel like the reliable is almost like a pass fail a little bit. So

Shannon Hansen 1:05:54

pretty. Like I like I said, if you take motive out of this, and you have a panel of six people or whatever, you’re gonna get really consistent scores. I mean, if people are just deliberately scoring in these areas, they might have some questions on superpowers, some people will be like, Oh, I see a superpower and that person, other people like I don’t necessarily see that, you can take that one out to where it does get tricky is in the motor Park. And like I said, a motive is a skill. And the best way I’ve seen to get the skill number one is to start paying attention, even go down to a coffee shop and just start listening to people. If you’re an introvert like I am, you don’t want to necessarily go out and talk to a bunch of people, you go to a coffee shop, and just listen to people. And if you’re really just intentionally listening, you can start picking up on their motives for what they’re talking about. But I have found that like when we’re having a having somebody else do the recruiting that it really is an experience. It’s a really is a mentorship skill building opportunity. And what that means is like, by the time you get through, I’d say 2025 interviews, a person who’s running the interviews, and you’re deliberately working with them on picking up on the motives and how they relate to the business. They’re gonna be going okay, all right, I’m starting to see how this is working in some of the common most of the common motives. They’re like, Oh, yeah, that person’s growth motive for sure, that person’s creative motive. That person’s that person wants to please pleasing, please, Mona’s are actually pretty dangerous, because a person who has a motive to please usually will do anything and everything they think, will please that person. And it’s not usually based on what that person actually needs. I’ve hired them numberless people, a lot of people probably have, and you’re like, This person keeps doing what they think will make me pleased. But it’s not the actual work that we need to be needs to be done. But like after 2025, they’re like starting to hit their stride. And then you can get the odd ones that are like one in 10, or whatever you’re like, oh, that person, I’m not really getting it from that person. And there are some that you have to, I find, sometimes I do have to jump in there and dig a little deeper. And there’s some that can be masked, there’s some, there’s some tricky ones. But those in essence, don’t really matter a whole lot. Because if it’s not really clear, you’re not really going to be able to, you’re not going to really be able to score them clearly. And they’re probably not a clear fit for your business. So at that point, it becomes more of a academic exercise to really uncover what’s unclear about this person’s motive. Just so we understand a little bit more, we get a little better next time.

Jeremy Weisz 1:08:42

So if someone you know, if it’s hard, you’re not sure what the motive is, sometimes that’s a disqualifier, because you really want a motive to stand up.

Shannon Hansen 1:08:51

Yeah. I mean, I can I can. I can’t think of the last eight. Sometimes it takes me a bit of time to really put the pieces together on it. But I can’t think of anybody that I haven’t finally got to the bottom of what it is that really drives them. Oh, thrill seeker motives, thrill seeker motives. They’re there. They can be very there tend to be very high performing people usually. And what I’d say usually I see them quite often, in the, in the business world, they’re there, they seek thrills through business, they tend to cap out at a certain level because they can’t build a team, because they’re always just trying to get this next thrill of the business deal together, whatever. They tend to be difficult to partner with. Because if you think about it, and they’ve got a thrill seeker motive, you got to be there to scratch their itch all the time, because they’re always wanting a thrill. I’m not a really thrilling person to be a partner with or you know, I’m just not. However, one of my best business partners actually does have a thrill seeker motive, and the way that that our relationship works is that he’s got a bunch to businesses. And he’s like round robin, and he comes back around to me every week, I can get mode, another little thrill for how far we’ve gone in the business. And then he goes back and does a circle event and comes back to me. I can do that once a week. I can’t do it every day, though. If you’re in the same office, he drives me crazy. But he’s incredible. He’s got incredible superpowers. So because I know his motive, I know exactly what makes him tick. Again, those little payoffs every time he sees me, as best I can. We have a great relationship. But you have to know that a thrill seeker otherwise, it’s you find it difficult to like, how do I sort of get in bed with this person, and it’s difficult because you can’t provide that thrill constantly just doesn’t work. So this has

Jeremy Weisz 1:10:47

been fantastic. You know, as you’re talking, I’m doing a post mortem on people from our team who haven’t worked out. And like one thing that resonated with one person in my mind that, you know, the team said, hey, you know, as we like, the person didn’t work out, it was like two weeks, it was very apparent. And the team kept saying, it’s weird. They’re not asking questions, like, they’re, you know, they should be asking questions at this point. They’re not asking questions. And so, you know, again, going back to the selection process, we should have picked up on that coachability piece, and that sticks out. So I appreciate you running through because I’m sure, we can go back through and do a post mortem and say, Okay, what was the coachability? What was the reliability? What was the motive didn’t stick out the problem solving the person ability and the superpower. And, and actually do that. And there’s a lot of nuances here that maybe will be in your book one day, because I’m sure you have specific questions you asked during the interview. And we can’t go through everything that will uncover the motive and the problem solving and stuff like that. So again,

Shannon Hansen 1:11:55

like, like people are trying to, like I’m working on like, I’m attempting to make this into a process. 50% of me wants to think this possible fit the other 50% of me wants to just go look, you just have to get curious about either have to like, you know, work with me or somebody else who’s like, got some skills in this. And like, again, like I said, after 2025 reps on your prospecting, you’re gonna go oh, I start to get the most the rest of these are like very formulaic and pretty like cut and dry. Like you’d probably find them somewhere else in some other recruiting book or whatever. So the rest of them are really pretty easy to score, but their motive one is, it’s not tricky. It’s just is a skill. And everybody wants to leech please show me the blueprint is the shortcut to it. I’m like, Well, show me the some in the shortcut to becoming a carpenter. Like, you have to go practice the you just have to practice it’s not a monumental thing. Like you don’t have to go get a PhD in it. But you have to get curious around it. And you have to start putting it together and in the post mortem stuff. And that’s how all this started. Because my partner and I started on post mortem, we’re like, Okay, we got to come up with something we got to explain all this phenomenon, like it was too, is too related to be just, you know, just bad luck, like, we got to be able to explain. And once we started getting onto this, once we started roughing it out, and then we go and apply it to the last postmortem, we’re like, oh, oh, I totally see how our motive or motive was just terrible for that position. It’s so clear now. And then you go back through all of them. And when you go back through all of them, and you go, I got them all figured out. It there’s no question in my mind, how come each one of these didn’t work out, then you’re like, now I get it. Now, again, now I know what I’m looking for in this, how can I say like, I think it’s even better than eight out of 10. We are now just on our accuracy of new new hires, or new partners, super accurate. And then you start just getting a higher level of motive and like really, really architecting how people’s motives will work together. And then you can really get it you can just get so much more out of people, when you’re not going against their motive in one way or another. You just take all the stuff out that’s contrary or contradictory to their motive. And they just take off like a light bulb, like a lightning bolt because they’re no longer held back by all this stuff. They’re like, Oh, I hate doing paperwork. When somebody who’s like, loves to organize the love to do paperwork, put any paperwork in front of it growth, growth mode, and they’re like, Oh, I gotta do more paperwork is holding them back. So don’t have any paperwork. Give him a VA who does all the paperwork for him and let him run. So

Jeremy Weisz 1:14:54

you know, last thing last question is Lightfoot media I want you to go make a point below, check out more life of media and a little bit about what you do there. And before you go into that, you know, this, what we just went through, I’m gonna have to go back and listen to a few times because it really is a framework for hiring and and like you said, you made a good point, which is you could supplement it with some of the tactical questions and and some of the, you know, books people like is who, by Jeff smart, the a method for hiring, they give like specific interview questions there. And there’s a book top grading by Brad smart. So, you know, you could supplement with other specific Okay, here are the questions, and then you can overlay it with the framework. So I just want to point that out. And

Shannon Hansen 1:15:46

the mode is really the unique piece. And to me, it’s the game changer. The rest of it is really I mean, you could probably find it in some other book. It’s pretty straightforward. So Lightfoot Media, yeah,

Jeremy Weisz 1:15:59

we’ll pick a point people there to learn more, find out more and just talk for a second about what you do there. Yeah, so

Shannon Hansen 1:16:05

I mean, life media is one of our company’s probably the oldest company that we have. And we do a lot of performance marketing, we do a lot of lead generation for mortgage companies, insurance companies, a lot of nationwide campaigns. It’s pretty cut and dry stuff. That’s that’s where we first applied cramps. And, you know, it’s, I suppose it’s one of the like, if I were to put it on a business card, I’d probably put like the media on there. But my now partner number of other companies, and I’d have to carry a whole bunch of business cards around with me, but a lot of them are marketing or marketing related, because it’s just great, scalable, there’s so many scalable opportunities. Marketing compliance is another big area we’re into with one of our companies. And, you know, just, it’s just

Jeremy Weisz 1:16:58

who are ideal partners for you, because I know that you have a lot of partners,

Shannon Hansen 1:17:02

right? So the ideal partners, for me are usually people who are already successful to do to a fairly significant level and whatever their, their area of expertise is, but they’re experiencing this sort of, I’m successful, but I can’t sort of get over that hump thing. And I’m not a coach, I don’t sell coaching packages. I don’t I don’t do seminars, I don’t do any of that stuff. I’m interested in partnerships where I can come in and go, Look, I will come in, I will maybe get some strategic business advice on the business model and things like that, if that’s if that’s helpful. But yeah, a lot of it is like these, the interpersonal dynamics of what the teams look like, in many cases, you find people who are very successful in whatever they’re doing. But they just can’t get they can’t build a team, like they may have an assistant or something. And like I’ve tried hiring people before, Yeah, nobody’s motivated, blah, blah, you know, and all that team stuff. For the birds? Well, it’s just that you didn’t have the skills to do it, I have the skills to do it, I can show you how to do it teach you how to do it, honestly, more partnership level. So the partnerships that come our way, or just like various, like, everybody needs people to pick up business grow. And one of the biggest things that you really need, if you want to be able to grow something really big, is you need to be able to get teams that will duplicate themselves. We didn’t do much of that today, but it does have a lot to do with motive. If you really do your homework well, and you put together a team, well, you’ll sort of get a biological growth effect where you build a really strong team. They’re like a cell, they grow to a certain size, and then they split. And then down, you have two cells and they start growing themselves and you’re not even around to sometimes they even enjoy it. That’s really like if you want to build something big with that requires a lot of people. That’s really the level I think that you need to get to. I mean, there’s plenty of companies out there to throw a ton of money towards staffing and the burn through people. And there’s all turnover and all that stuff. That’s not my way of doing business. I just don’t particularly care to engage in that. I’m really, my business approach is much more so the tortoises approach versus the hare. I think about those tortoises, they ended up winning the race. It’s agonizing to be a tortoise and to see all the hairs always jumping past you. There’s always a hare who’s jumping past you in one way or another. But yet, when you look past back over your period or whatever, you’re the one who’s winning the race. So ideal partner really is obviously they have to fit crafts, like they have to be reasonably coachable. Like I don’t want a nine out of 10 doll Look at me for all the answers to all your questions. You know, you can’t be like that level coachable, you got to be a healthy dose of skepticism is required. And that’s what the rest of these camps and then you got to be successful at what you do probably

Jeremy Weisz 1:20:16

the industry Shannon that Oh, I mean I don’t because you mentioned

Shannon Hansen 1:20:22

more advertising industry but like that’s, that’s not really it doesn’t have to be in the advertising industry staff has to be where we’ve seen success, I’m just saying I really am interested in expanding our our partnerships. And who knows, I mean, nothing’s off the table. Like if it’s got, I mean, it’s got to have scalability like I don’t want to, I don’t want to take somebody from 50k a month to 100k a month, like that just doesn’t. That’s not exciting enough to me, like it’s got to have real scalability to it. Some that we’re, I guess another part of it is like, because I’ve got this help mode, it’s got to be something that really does help people and create win wins, that can’t be a one sided thing. So yeah, that’s just talking about my motives. It’s got to be really growable and we got to be able to help people in doing it. And those stripe by motorbike, I’ll get up early to be on conference calls for that kind of stuff.

Jeremy Weisz 1:21:18

I guess will point people to if they want to learn more, go to Lightfoot and start there.

Shannon Hansen 1:21:25

Yeah, absolutely. You fill out the form, it actually goes straight to my desk. Who knows? Maybe I’ll have to redirect if you get too much traffic. You guys.

Jeremy Weisz 1:21:35

Shannon, thank you so much. Really appreciate it. This was an impromptu recording of this. So really appreciate it.

Shannon Hansen 1:21:42

Yeah, I’m happy to I’m happy to do it. If you need any follow ups or Yeah, you think of other people who could benefit from it. Happy to share that knowledge. I think we might have cut that part out at the beginning. Like I don’t really have I don’t really have any hidden agendas here. I really just I want people to be able to have more effective teams and businesses and more more cohesive and harmonious team environments. Happy to share in that respect and yeah, I mean, I’m looking to increase our expand our partnerships, but aside from that, I don’t have any hidden agenda. So by all means, if somebody if you find somebody who can benefit from this, do share. It came out.