Jeremy Weisz 4:13

So did you meet him just through the Kansas City ecosystem? or How did you even know he existed?

Matt DeCoursey 4:20

The straight up Casey ecosystem Facebook page for startups in Kansas City,

Jeremy Weisz 4:26

huh? So then talk about the book for a second. So you interviewed him for the Million Dollar Bedroom? What else?

Matt DeCoursey 4:33

Yeah, I guess yeah. So well, so I’ve written three books. If you were curious about the music connection, I’ll help out on the on the lap around. So written three books, Million Dollar Bedrooms, what I refer to as my educational narrative, so I use the story of starting a business in the extra bedroom of my home, had no money had no experience at a credit card with an $8,000 limit and man To turn that into $30 million in revenue over the subsequent seven to eight years that followed is also the precursor for everything we do. Now. That’s where I hired my first employees in the Philippines, which later turned into Full Scale, and did a bunch of other stuff. I had another book Balance Me, which is a realist’s guide to a successful life, which is kind of a take on the fact that, well, one work life balance is a bit of a myth. It’s different for all of us. And it’s about more than just work in life. It’s about finding balance in your personal, professional and physical life. And then before I was an entrepreneur, I worked in the music industry, I used to work for a company named Roland Roland, the world’s largest maker of electronic musical instruments. And so I met a lot of interesting people along the way, ended up wanting to do the realist guide to a successful music career was more of a passion project, but my connection to that, so I have a lot of rock star co authors, forward writers and interviews and that I’m not a rock, literally, literally rock star. Yeah, yeah, I remember Dave Matthews Band wrote the foreword for that. My co authors, Joel comments from offers Magee there’s all kinds of American Idol winners, Grammy Award winners, the music director for the Rolling Stones. But I wrote that from the perspective of being an entrepreneur, because I actually believe that bands are startups too

Jeremy Weisz 6:25

100% of the hustle to get people to their early show. I mean, people see him on stage, but they were hustling, kind of like comedians are probably at some, you know, South Dakota, whatever gig they can get that type of thing.

Matt DeCoursey 6:39

It’s a grind, it’s a grind, and you overwhelmingly have a chance of failing before succeeding. And so some of that, so I wrote that with Joel and we kind of combined our skill sets and our knowledge from that I was really was written from my perspective, like your band as a start up. And then I don’t have 20 years of experience of selling out places like red rocks and stuff like that. So Joel had to kind of take over on that one.

Jeremy Weisz 7:05

What’s your people learn, Matt from bands? Like for acquiring customers running their business? What did you take out of that experience in the music industry in that book?

Matt DeCoursey 7:17

Well, for starters, for me, a startup is anything that any business that doesn’t come with an owner’s manual. So you know, that’s the hardest thing about startups in general is it literally they don’t come with an owner’s manual, if you need an owner’s manual, buy a franchise, but there’s a big difference between, like, I do believe some people don’t think franchise owners are entrepreneurs, they’re wrong. They are entrepreneurs, but they’re not founders, that’s a different, that’s a different feel. But without that, like, it’s just really like a lot of you’re gonna have to, you’re, even the people that you see in the music industry that you think are famous, will jokingly refer to themselves as the overnight sensation that was eight years in the making, or something like everyone grinds it out. And it’s and it’s overwhelmingly ripe with failure. And you need to know and understand that. But really the thing that I learned through that, and also, just my experience on the Startup Hustle Podcast is that business is hard. And if you want to make a living out of something, you have to take it seriously. And you need to get around the right people. And a band is much like a startup in that regard. Meaning you got to go find co founders and people that believe and if you have one out of three people that sucks, well, then you suck too, because that means a third of your company sucks. It’s just kind of the way it goes. And you know, like that takes a lot of commitment, planning and perseverance.

Jeremy Weisz 8:44

Are there any stories that stick out from the book, the realist guide? Whether it’s from the Dave Matthews Band, or one of the other people, what’s a fan favorite story from the book? Or maybe your your favorite story?

Matt DeCoursey 8:57

I don’t know if it’s in the book, but I’ll call my co author out for admitting that he wants fell off the stage and to the orchestra pet at a show, and that the other members of his band did not notice. You Yeah, he. He told me he told me after that, that. I said, Well, what do you do when you hit the ground? He said, I wanted to make sure I got back on stage before they realized they didn’t need me up there at all. Yeah, but no, I mean, really, Joel and you know, a lot of people have heard of the band unfreeze McGee and a lot haven’t. But I mean, these guys have played almost 3000 live shows. I just saw him in red, red, red rocks for a sold out audience. I mean, that’s rock star stuff. But they did all the exact same stuff that people I know that run successful businesses to they’re down with their marketing, they control certain things and they also you know, know that they’re performers and they need to perform meaning. It’s about the fans. It’s about community. And what I really learned the most from Joel was to really focus on that tribe building aspect. And, and, you know, you mentioned Startup Hustle, you know, we are coming up on our 2 million downloads just made it in the top 25 all time for entrepreneurship podcasts on Apple. And I’m humbled by that, you know, like, so like Joel says, In the book and this, I feel the same way about our podcast, people can choose it literally an infinite amount of things to do other than pay attention to what you’re doing. So when they do, get in there and interact and create a community that is about more than just you, you know, because that’s the true sense of tribe building is when the people that are falling, but you’re doing fine as much or preferably more value in some cases, from each other than they do from you as, as the leader of the tribe or the initiator of the discussion.

Jeremy Weisz 10:56

What made you shift, Matt, then from the music world to what was next for you.

Matt DeCoursey 11:04

So yeah, I loved my experience at Roland, but that was back in the overlap the same years that we refer to as the housing bubble, the financial crisis of 2000, you know, the late 2007, eight range. And as our business adjusted to that my territory grew, and I spent 150 nights in a hotel one year, and I was in my early 30s. And I was just like, you know what, I love this company. I love the industry, but I don’t think I can live like this. So I needed to make some changes. And I didn’t even know why I applied to a top 10 dozen school, the Kelley school of business in India, as Indiana University. And also I wasn’t expecting to get out and I did. So I quit my job and went back to school in my early 30s as an adult and rapidly ran out of money. And I was looking for something to do. And that’s when I kind of stumbled on the business that I talked about and Million Dollar Bedrooms.

Jeremy Weisz 12:10

Hmm. I feel like you know, when I look at, do research, the books kind of fall a little bit of the evolution of your life and career right. So you start off the music career and then balance me talk about that for a second. You mentioned

Matt DeCoursey 12:27

that was actually my that was actually my first book. That was your first book. Austria was allowed. Yeah, I so I wrote Balance Me and Million Dollar Bedroom at the same time. And I was working with an editor named Patrick Price and Patrick’s his crowning achievement is he’s the one he was the discoverer of the franchise that remember he? He’s just not that into you. What? No, it was a movie above all the movie. Yeah. Well, it was a book before it was a movie, but it had been passed. I

Jeremy Weisz 13:00

just didn’t want to admit I have seen Matt. No, no, it’s okay.

Matt DeCoursey 13:04

I hadn’t, I hadn’t seen it until I met Patrick. But he’s been that he’s been you talked about getting around good people and getting good guidance. He’s been the editor like a dozen New York Times best-sellers. So without I employed him full time for six months and wrote this first two books. Balance me I had worked on I had concepted for a very long time. And his was kind of a model of, you know, I want to say this in a humble way. But it might come out different because sometimes that’s the way it works. I found a way as an entrepreneur and and, and a professional and just a person to grossly outperform the average person in regards to getting things done. Right. So, so the question and the question was, is how? How did you? How do you maintain all that, and I tried to get into that. And I quickly just realized that it was through understand having a strong sense of priority and understanding value, including like opportunity costs, like whenever you choose to do one thing, you’re choosing to not do something else. So part of what that book is about is about understanding that about yourself. Now, with three categories with the three P’s personal, professional and physical. You have your amount of effort that you put into all three categories. It’s kind of funny, because I’ve been a speaker on this and the first thing I do is make people I hand out paper and I say three, three columns, personal, professional, physical, what percentage of your effort goes into each and then do it again, flip the paper over and output which percentage of your effort you would like it. You would like your life to be because they’re rarely if ever, the same? And it’s not there’s no answer, like your whatever makes you happy and feel balanced in that regard, that’s different for me, maybe that’s me, I’m not saying don’t work. And it’s not a 1/3 1/3 1/3 kind of thing. But in order to get that balance back, you first have to understand it. And then you have to, like, begin to look at the things that you do and and around your life that literally have no value. And replace them with things that do that move you towards a goal, right? There’s a little basic little scoring system in there and a whole lot of other stuff. And I mean, really, in the end, I mean, in the first page of the book, it says, hey, look, you’re probably your own problem. And if you’re not willing to admit that put the book back because you won’t like it. And I’m not going to be able to help you. So some of it’s just some people love it. And some people I don’t because, I mean, like I said, you got to kind of take responsibility for stuff.

Jeremy Weisz 15:49

Yeah, I feel like when you hold up, people hold up a mirror, it’s tough, you know, and you have to face it, right? Yep,

Matt DeCoursey 15:57

yeah, you gotta own it. And then also, like, some of it, too, is just kind of really challenging. You’re like, Hey, folks playing video games, it has no value for you, unless you are a professional eSports person that gets paid. And like some people literally like burn 10s If not, I have a full time job, playing Call of Duty, or whatever. So if you’re going to do that, that’s what you’re going to choose to do. You can’t on the other side of this walk across the other side of the street, man, I’m just not getting what I want out of life, my career isn’t moving forward, my, my family’s this and that, like, well, don’t spend all your time ignoring them. Because you’re playing video games. I mean, if that’s what you choose to do, that’s fine. But know that you can get anything you want. If you just literally start to work on it.

Jeremy Weisz 16:47

I feel like you know, we have different phases of life, right? And so, and you’re growing a team, you’re 25, growing to 1000 or more, right? Um, so maybe depending on where you’re at, in the phase of someone as a phase or career, those personal professional physical may be different. What do you what is your when you when you look at that personal, professional, physical? Are there anything you would change right now, or tweak based on where you’re at? And where you want? I

Matt DeCoursey 17:19

mean, it’s almost for my answer for that. It’s almost always physical, you know, cuz it’s more than that, well, yeah. Like, I mean, that’s where, and that’s what’s deficient. On many days, guys, it’s easy to not eat right, or not exercise or do a lot of different things. You know, and, you know, the thing is, is that, that balance and what works for you, it evolves and changes over time, like, there’s, you know, as, as an entrepreneur, you’re on many days only gonna be as good as who you’re married to, or in a relationship with meaning, like, they have to understand, like, I have a very understanding wife, like, I can tell my wife, hey, I’m going up to my office, and I’m coming out when I come out. And I don’t say that very often. But when I do, she knows that there’s something like, I’m not going to be able to focus on other things and be present until I get certain things out of my head, or done that are causing the anxiety. So that that’s that self awareness and understanding. So some of that, you know, can lead you like, I had to dial up the professional side of things when the pandemic hit, cuz I have, as you mentioned, 225 employees, and that’s a hell of a lot of pressure. And like, it’s a lot of responsibility for my own family to you know, some of that. And then on the flip side, the pandemic, like today’s both of my kids are back at in person school. And I looked over at my wife, and I said, what was the last time you and me were in this house? Without either one of our kids Exactly. And it was pretty, it was pre pandemic. So you know, like, so some of that I got, I mean, my kids are like best friends with each other. Now, we get to spend a hell of maybe even too much time with each other, they were ready to go to school, man, they didn’t even look back once we open the door to the car. So

Jeremy Weisz 19:05

what about lessons you talk to them about and a whole there but about entrepreneurship and business? I’m sure you’re talking around the dinner table about this stuff.

Matt DeCoursey 19:16

You know, I’ve always felt that I was born an entrepreneur. And I see that in my daughter, especially who literally was trying to sell me stuff. Like when she was three, I never taught her how to do it. Like, you know, it was like, I see a lot of that. And then it was an inborn thing with her. Yeah, like, I mean, like, she knows how to handle objections and do all kinds of stuff. I haven’t pushed her on any of it. Like, I when she was three, you could ask her what every business needs. And she’d say, customers, you know, and then like, wow,

Jeremy Weisz 19:49

around the lines for fullscale to start making calls. Yeah, well,

Matt DeCoursey 19:53

she she’s probably now who knows now my son’s like a different personality. So my daughter’s Got the promoter aspect of me and my son’s, like, more of a mathematician and like other stuff. So we’ll see where that goes. But I haven’t pushed them too hard. I tried to teach him, I think their age, they’re four and a half and six and a half. And I’m trying to just teach them to be like, respectful people. Right now. That’s, that’s the main focus, like, Don’t be in a hole down to like, a great martial arts there. Because if we can’t get that part right, then I don’t think anything else matters.

Jeremy Weisz 20:29

That’s your next book on parenting. Right?

Matt DeCoursey 20:34

Probably I think someone wrote

Jeremy Weisz 20:36

Exactly, exactly. Um, what I love to hear Matt, which you are uniquely qualified to talk about? This is the hiring process, right? I mean, not just from your own company. But I mean, this is ultimately what you help other companies do by finding and vetting great talent. For developers, right. So I’d love to hear some best practices on your, your your hiring process, and, you know, talk about some best practices.

Matt DeCoursey 21:06

I don’t know anyone else that’s hired more developers than me. To be honest, that’s just because I don’t know many people that have hired hundreds I know a lot of people that have hired some but hundreds is a different. So like, what we do at Full Scale is we actually use the acronym rare. So we specialize in recruiting, assessing, retaining and employing so when our clients engage us, these are, so one of the things that people don’t inherently understand about the American job market and economy right now is that the the talent shortage for tech is so pronounced that if entrepreneurs and businesses don’t reach out, meaning like out of the borders of the US, they literally are going to fail. in many regards. If entrepreneurs can’t get what they want, in a price range that they need, or a quantity that they need, it becomes really problematic. And it’s there’s about 350,000 open tech jobs right now in the US, like, I’m in Kansas City, the 25th biggest market in the US, and there’s like, almost 5000 openings just here. And that becomes really problematic. So the question, so you realize that you can use offshore or remote talent? The problem is, is how do you know if they’re any good? Or like any of it? Like, how do you know how to do any of it? So? And then there’s other concerns, too, that some people don’t think about before using companies, not like ours? Like, do you have any recourse if this person runs off with your intellectual property, and stuff like that. So Full Scale is started because that Watson, my business partner, had a company Stackify that was having all these problems, and we became business partners actually GigaBook.com first. And when other entrepreneurs who had been listening to Startup Hustle, were like, hey, how do we find some developers in the Philippines? Like you guys? were like, Huh. So we started, we started offering this and creating this offering Now, with that we were decent at hiring, but we had to get good at it really quickly. So when it comes to tech talent, there’s a whole lot of different things. Because just because you can write code doesn’t mean you’re going to be a good employee. And it doesn’t mean you’ll be successful or productive either. Like, there’s a lot of people that can write code, but they’re terrible communicators, or they’re just not passionate. So when we look at hiring for tech talent, we’ve created around 40 different of our own skill assessments. Now our goal is to hire the top 3% of people we find that’s 3%. So one out of 33 is about and we’re actually it’s harder than that we’re actually tighter than that. But in order to do that, we created these assessments to first kind of screen out people like, if you can’t pass a basic coding tasks for what you’re applying for, then, then we will move on, we need to keep that efficient for ourselves. But it helps us identify people, it’s talent across a whole lot of different things like some some developers are what we call polyglots, meaning they’re linguists, they know how to do a lot of different stuff. And they’ll figure it out quickly. So we did our assessments range from true coding tests to things like problem solving algorithms, like you name it. Now, here’s the thing. That only gives you about half the story. So there’s a whole nother branch of stuff that we have to get into related to like who the person is. So when we have the ability to know what someone’s passionate about, and that matches the need and they and they can do the job and they’re passionate about it. When we match them up with a client that’s doing that. Oh, magic happens. magic happens. Those are the people we literally have to tell Hey, you can’t work 300 hours a month you’re gonna kill yourself. But they love it. It’s not work. I this way I look at being an entrepreneur, you know, I decided like almost 20 years ago that I was going to make that making money was now my hobby. And Dude, I haven’t worked a single day since I made that decision. So because I’m passionate about it, I like it. Right. But the same thing with developers. So it comes down to some other things to the other side of the personal coin is like, what’s your industry experience? What are you passionate about? You have critical thinking skills are a big part. So you know, when you talk about the dynamic of an offshore worker, you have to be highly empathetic of culture. And that culture in the Philippines or South America or Eastern Europe, it’s all different, right? So in a lot of these countries, it’s considered risky, dumb or rude to tell your boss No. Which leads to major major breakdowns and critical thinking, like you can give someone a blueprint, it would be the equivalent of giving a contractor a house, like a home builder, a contract, he looks at it and says, Man, this is gonna fall over after I build it. Yeah, but it’d be rude for me to say something. So I’ll just build it anyway. And that’s where that’s where people fail with offshore, and also just like a basic understanding of how to hire people who to hire. And things like intellectual property protection, and just like a whole lot. And another thing you got to realize, too, is the very, very best people, you’re going to find they aren’t in PR and pay by the hour online marketplaces, they want to work for companies that work with the kind of clients that we do and have culture, they want stability, they want all of that, and they want to work around other people who are also awesome. So that’s, I mean, that’s basically what what we’re working on. And then the thing is, is that also can break down to because now when you get to that side of things, these are judgments that person a person needs to make, not a not a score on an assessment, but someone else. So like, yeah, so we’ve had to create a whole process for that, make it efficient, make it automated, and think about how fast we’ve grown. So we’ve literally had 1000s, and 1000s of applicants, so you got to go through those. And that’s we’ve built, we’ve built our own system at Full Scale to do everything from like, we use Giga book for the appointment setting. We actually deploy our, our tests through Hacker Rank, and if you really just want to like if you just need to, that’s a great platform that has some built in tests. But you know, part of that too, if you’re going to assess someone, don’t just ask them trivia questions, give them a test where they actually have to do it. Like, there’s a big difference between being able to actually drive a car and pass and passing the written driving test. I can probably teach my seven year old how to pass the written driving, like the written part of the driver’s license test, but you don’t want to behind the wheel of a car either. So yeah, I mean, that’s that’s some of it. The The hard part is still the whole act of putting it all together and getting people to communicate with each other. And just there, there’s a lot to that to

Jeremy Weisz 28:09

those two things. Man, I want to dig a little bit more into one, you mentioned clients wise and passion. So I want to talk a little bit about the types of industry and the types of companies who are ideal to work with you. I also want to dig into key positions. I mean, you you grew really quickly, in a couple of years, and you’re continuing to grow quickly. What are some of the key positions early on from like zero to 200 people that you brand, you know, key in you growing?

Matt DeCoursey 28:41

Well, let’s actually start with what you don’t want. Cuz part of it is knowing what you don’t want to occur and then doing everything you can in your power to make sure that doesn’t happen. So we admittedly had some leadership. In the Philippines, we made leadership changes early because we didn’t want we were trying to do something different. And we didn’t want to, we wanted experienced leaders and people that knew how to own and operate a business, but we had to be very careful that we weren’t importing the crap culture that they may have been involved with at other businesses. And you know, that dynamics change. So like for us, it was really important to create a culture around winning, also around learning. And you know, like that critical thinking component and wanting to get better. And like some of that was also defining like, what’s our What’s our purpose driven? Like thing, and our purpose is to help our clients succeed. So that’s why we wake up every day and when we’re doing that. You’re gonna have a lot of autonomy, like people that have 15 years of experience don’t want to be micromanaged. If they’re good and you hire them, let them do their work. So, you know, creating cultures where that was the case And then some of it too is just like, I mean, just also just having people with the right attitude. And, you know, so making sure that that occurred as far as key positions. Fortunately, I’ve, our COO, has worked with me at other companies. So I got to have a running partner there, Matt Watson was still very involved with Stackify. And it’s and still is, even after acquisition. And he has done everything he could to offer his skills. But when it comes to key positions, if you get the right mix of people, and you know, what your roles are, then get to work, you know, get to work and, and, and no, but you also have to create, like levels of accountability that are like, hey, so we use the term world class, that’s like, our, that’s what we want our standard to be like, if whatever we’re putting out isn’t world class, like we, we have free rein and license to call the other out on it. Hey, man, this is not world class. And holding that accountability. And, you know, you asked me before we hit record a couple things like what like what is on the forefront of my mind when it comes to Full Scale, the thing that keeps me up at night is, you know, the well first off at 200. And we’ll have 300 employees by the end of the year most likely mean at the end of 2021. And we’re on pace to have 1000 employees. Now, we’re not going to get there if we don’t start acting and being that company now. Because and if we do manage to get there by any any, it’s almost I don’t know a big believer in luck. But if we do manage to get there, the mess that we’ll have to clean up by not thinking like the 1000 person company now is going to create a different set of pain and emotion that at 46 years old, I would prefer to not experience anymore. That’s hard. That’s hard, though. Because look, if you’re going to be at 225 employees, three years later, and millions of dollars in revenue, you don’t get there without moving fast and breaking a few things along the way. So is this worth blowing back together? Is this like shit, we better stop everything we’re doing and do this. Like there’s a lot to consider.

Jeremy Weisz 32:19

What are some decisions you make are the teammates now considering that that you’re like, maybe if you were functioning as in the present as a 200 person team, but thinking we are going to be functioning as 1000 person team, what’s the decision you made go we need to do is whatever this process this software, because we’re going to be here in a couple years.

Matt DeCoursey 32:41

So that we’ve made a heavy investment and to building our own system. And that’s the thing is we are wanting to we’re trying to we like to say that fall scales by founders for founders, right? Like we I can, as a founder, I can look at another founder and say, Hey, dude, I know what it’s like to wake up at two in the morning and wonder if I’m going broke if I’m going crazy, or maybe both. And so, so much of what we built. And the experience is about making it fast, easy and affordable, like pain free to do things. But we also have to do the same thing on the other side for our employees. So we’ve created a system that I refer to as circular communication. And I think that that’s a key ingredient. Because the three parts of that circle, we have Full Scale US we have full scale in the Philippines, we have our employees, and we have our clients. And that has to be a symbiotic cycle, that the communication doesn’t just flow in one direction, but can go either direction, quickly and fluidly. And then part of that what you have to consider too is like if I give you an example. So it’s Stackify Watson use 15. Five, it went. But that’s a pretty expensive thing for me to scale across hundreds and hundreds of people. So sometimes you got to look at some of the stuff you’re like holy shit, like, sorry, am I allowed to say that on this show, but you can’t have an entrepreneur show and not be able to swear? You to release some of it, it would be challenging. That was that was the best question I’ve ever asked in the Startup Hustle. Facebook chat is what has an entrepreneur being an entrepreneur taught you and someone said, How many ways I can use the F word in a sentence? Yeah, so some of the growth thing is you know, you always have that if you’re a technologist or you build software or anything you always have that buy versus build question. So you know some guys do

Jeremy Weisz 34:31

a good episode about that actually buy versus build on. Thank you. I saw on YouTube. Yeah. Yeah, sorry. Because it’s almost like counterintuitive because like, oh, obviously he’s gonna say build because they run Full Scale. And but the cases there’s, you know, which I love the balanced approach to the episode, which is there’s cases where you should buy in cases where you should build so yeah,

Matt DeCoursey 34:55

and you got to fit you got to think about where you’re going to be later too because like we mentioned the time clock. And that episode, I remember that and even things like GigaBook. So we use Giga book for all of our appointment scheduling, there’s a thing with 1000 employees, even at some enterprise rate that could be 510 $15,000, a month on top of Google suite, Slack, and a whole bunch of other stuff. So some of that you got to think about where you are and where you want to be. You also don’t want to slow things down. Because, you know, if you want to get to the top of the mountain, you got to drag all the things that you decide to do along the way, and your backpack to the top. So the more stuff you build, like, if you’re not going to support it, you’re better off renting it and letting someone else build it. So like a good example, as is type farm. So type farm. I don’t know if you’re familiar with it. Oh, yeah, let’s Yeah, totally. Yeah, super slack. Great UI for collecting forms and stuff like that easy to change on the fly, pre integrates with a ton of stuff, I get 10,000 form spelled out in a month, which I’ve never even come close to that, I think it’s 50 bucks. I can’t out build that, like, so we’re so you can leverage certain things. So we use type form and connect that to our company’s system, which means I don’t have to deal with an updated user interface. Because for 50 bucks a month, man, like, unless you can build it like tomorrow, it’s gonna be hard for me to out, save that. But then you have things like time clocks, or like, you know, sign some things are free, like calendly is a competitor of GigaBook. Technically, we do different things, but there’s some shit that’s just free. Like zoom. Like, it’d be dumb to try to build your own video conferencing. We’re using zoom right now. And it’d be like you saying, Hey, you know what, I love my podcast, I think I’ll build my own video. paying for it, you know, it’s like, yeah. So I mean, that’s part of what you’re thinking about. But yeah, we’re building our own system. And a lot of that’s intended to also, you know, kind of turn into a self service kind of thing, because as a founder to another founder, like, I don’t want to call you to ask you pretty much anything. So why can’t I do this here in your site? Now? We’ll see how that comes out. Does on Saturdays and Sundays is great. And Sundays, it’s not,

Jeremy Weisz 37:15

you know, you have this this capacity to do whatever you want, because you have all this talent and because you help hire all this talent, do you think at some point Full Scale will come out with a specific software solution that you know, let’s say you release that the circular you know, communication system to other people, do you think anything will offshoot from that, that you will release as a product or you’re not really thinking in that role?

Matt DeCoursey 37:40

It’s, it’s, it’s a possibility, we’ve actually had multiple people inquire about usage of so we call it the rocks system, largely because it’s located at FullScale.rocks. And if you go there, you’re just gonna find a portal, like a sign in portal that’s at like, cuz it’s not like, it’s it’s intentionally not commercially viable in that regard. I mean, that’s a possibility. It’s something we’ve looked at. I mentioned earlier on gaining experience at 46 years old. And I think one of the things that I’ve really come to appreciate is not chasing all the shiny things. So like, when you get on top of the gold, your, your number one mission should be to dig gold out of the ground, and not everything else. And it’s really easy to get enamored with a ton of different stuff. So the the, the byproduct of building the system is a lot of framework and a lot of stuff that is commercially viable. But Intel, the Intel the process of work. I mean, I can’t even keep developers in stock. I mean, that’s until that slows down. I just want to be amazing at that.

Jeremy Weisz 38:50

Yeah, just hold on. And go for the red. Yeah, yeah. Um, I love that. And I encourage people to check out your podcast, Startup Hustle, and you know, the videos on YouTube. And I was, you know, watching the buy versus build. And one of the one of the interviews I had was with Mobileye, one of the founding engineers at Mobileye, which is kind of in fuels, the autonomous vehicle thing, but it was interesting, because Intel ended up buying them for $15.3 billion. And they were going through the same thought, which is, hmm, in this whole car, there’s only one chip that we don’t make in this car, and we should maybe create it right and they decided that it’s cheap, it was cheaper for them to pay $15.3 billion than to try and create it themselves. So now all companies are thinking like this. Um, let’s talk you know, Matt, about the client industry where ideal industries ideal customers to be saying, Listen, we need to be going to FullScale.io right now and checking out what they are Doing.

Matt DeCoursey 40:01

So we say no to more clients than we say yes to. And that’s because like I said, we see it, it’s that circular pattern. Like, if I don’t think you’re going to treat our employees well, or if I think you’re a pain in the butt, I’ll just say next, my favorite four letter words other than one that starts with AF is next and sold. Okay, so like, sometimes you just got to move along, because, you know, certain, we’ve learned that certain types. So we want companies that, quote, know what they’re doing. So like, for example, if you’re a decking contractor, and you want to build an app, and you’ve never built software, and you’re not available all day, because you’re swinging a hammer, we’re not the right, we’re not the right company for you. We don’t do any statement of work contracts, like our deliverables our time, and our team members report directly to our clients. On paper, our fastest growing clients have between 11 and 50. employees, they’re usually venture backed. That doesn’t mean we don’t work with people that aren’t that those are the ones that grow the fastest. Because if you have to suddenly hire an engineering team of 12 people, good luck, just seriously good luck. And we oftentimes, like I signed up a new client today that’s starting with six people. And he literally told me, he’s like, I just can’t find these people at this at this level of quality anywhere, especially in one stop. Now, the thing that’s created this massive tech talent shortage is the fact that businesses that weren’t traditionally building software, suddenly are all over the place. So you know, we have some clients that have large, like double digit member teams that are literally building systems kind of like I defined for art, like us their own management system. Because it’s there, it’s it gives them the ability to have control and do the things that they want, or for whatever reason that they’re doing it. But overwhelmingly, our clients are software as a service companies, and, and they’re looking for expert people.

Jeremy Weisz 42:09

favorite podcast episodes, people should check out from Startup Hustle, Startup Hustle. Yeah.

Matt DeCoursey 42:19

You know, it’s funny, because I get this question a lot. And I never know what to answer, because it kind of depends on when you ask. I mean, some of my favorite episodes are the ones that I’ve done with Sandy Kemper, Sandy Kemper is a staple of the entrepreneur community in Kansas City. He’s the founder of C2FO. And just one of those people that after I talked to them, I’m like, God, I got a lot of stuff to learn still. I got another there’s another a couple episodes that I’ve recorded with a guy named Ron Shigeta, who has got like PhDs and master’s degrees from like, the entire Ivy League. And he’s, he’s invested in a bunch of different companies. And if anything, is there, even a software guy, but you know, just I enjoy the I enjoy the learning experience. And then I personally, I, I do squeeze some musician episodes, and because I liked it, so I’ve had some with my co author Joel Comments. And what I’m really enjoying right now is Watson and I have been doing a we’re doing a 52 part series about how to build a tech company. Which is, which is funny because we’re three weeks behind on on it, which which we’ve

Jeremy Weisz 43:34

been doing right people were like,

Matt DeCoursey 43:37

like, hey, people, there’s probably nothing we could do to demonstrate what you’re going to run into, then clearly missing your deadline and maybe being overextended on your burn rate. So there you go.

Jeremy Weisz 43:50

Yeah, I love it. Check it out. Everyone, check out the Startup Hustle Podcast. Um, last question, Matt, first of all, thank you. Thank you for sharing your lessons stories. Now. Everyone can go to FullScale.io check out the startup hustle podcast and the episodes there. Any other places we should point people online? To check out more?

Matt DeCoursey 44:12

More Startup Hustle stuff?

Jeremy Weisz 44:13

Yeah. And just yeah, in general, or those two, the two buttons? Well, if you’re

Matt DeCoursey 44:17

interested in being a guest on the show, or suggesting one you got to StartHustle.XYZ and fill out the form, which is a type form, by the way. And if you want to check out our web series, which is kind of a newer thing for us that we’ve been experimenting with, you can just go to pretty much go anywhere and type in startup hustle that’s on YouTube. You know, one of the things that I enjoy is the is the interaction we have with other entrepreneurs and the startup hustle, chat on and on Facebook. So there’s a couple 1000 people in there and we we keep it clean, man, it’s not filled with a bunch of people spamming crap. So we place it pretty hard, which so it’s not highly active. I mean, there’s a post To every couple of days, but try to ask polls and different things that could be inherently useful or just help other people understand things about their own business. Like I just did a poll recently asking like, how many new clients in a month had new clients or users in a month is good at your business? Because it gives you a perspective, like there’s people that are like one, and some people are like hundreds. So but that’s a big difference. That’s a big difference. And I think that that’s fun. I think if you’re a real entrepreneur, truly, truly passionate about it, then you’re a nerd about it. So you kind of scoop all that stuff up and want to you find it interesting.

Jeremy Weisz 45:39

Yeah. Thanks, Matt. Last question is, you know, you mentioned type form. And I would love to hear your favorite tools and software, people probably ask you this all the time, or geek out on people’s other people’s tech stacks and what they use? What are some of your favorite tools and software? Outside of obviously, you mentioned Typeform. Slack,

Matt DeCoursey 46:04

without a doubt. I feel a little lost without it. And I know there’s other products that that do it. But that’s the one that does it for me. Honestly, I was just talking the other day with my wife about and this is like, this is like so boring answer. How about Google suite, like professionally for $5 a month like and sorry, Microsoft, I’m not renewing by Excel license or my word license or any of that other stuff because it’s in there. And you know, one of the things without, it’s like, I just really, I probably have a cluttered rat’s nest of Google Drive. But if I know I’m always putting on there makes it really easy for me to find it wherever I’m at. I get the book, our own tool, I would have a difficult time living without it. On many days. It’s kind of like the ease of use like you and you are using a different product when I scheduled this. But like think about how much back and forth you go through without any booking like I don’t care if you use GigaBook or whatever.

Jeremy Weisz 47:08

If you’re, like a second. How can you

Matt DeCoursey 47:12

it’s calendly on steroids, basically. I mean, you can still, you can do everything from build like a link Triana and embed it on your website. reminders, notifications, you can take payments does texting emails, and the thing with gigaba, because it’s fully customizable. So we build GigaBook for all of the industries that don’t have an industry specific booking platform. So like if you’re a hairstylist, you’re going to hate it. It’s not built for what you do. It’s built for like, I mean, we have an exorcist that actually have a gag a book account and you can book your exorcism online with that, but there wasn’t that there’s no industry platform for exorcism booking nothing. But people want to come in and customize that and be able to have a little more control and do different stuff. So it’s been pretty interesting. And you know, I know software is going to do everything you need it to do.

Jeremy Weisz 48:07

I love it. Matt, thank you. I’ll be the first one to thank you so much, everyone, check out FullScale.io check out Startup Hustle and much more. And we’ll see you again next time Next time, everyone. Thanks, Matt.

Matt DeCoursey 48:20

Awesome. Thanks.