Jeremy Weisz 14:13
That sounds really, yeah, it sounds like a perfect use case too, because it’s one big, you know, obviously shopping center, but it’s got lots of businesses, local businesses that can use it.
A hiring perspective. So in the beginning it’s just you. You bootstrap it. I even heard a story where you basically went to pitch it at a I don’t know what you call it. It was at an incubator event or something like that, and tell that story because I think it’s interesting. I don’t know how you won based on the story, honestly. What what happened?
Matt Crowell 14:57
Yeah. I mean, I think I fell into tech, so it wasn’t, I mean, today, you know, it’s a lot more known how building tech companies work and the opportunities with them. And, you know, early on this was truly like an MVP. It was just an idea to get some golf deals going for my buddies and I. And as we started to build out the the platform and where we thought it could go, I started to pitch and I went to an angel forum and with no expectation of what was going to happen, everybody else was like companies and they were fairly funded.
We ended up winning like, you know, top company and most likely to go public and all of these different things, which was my first experience in like the venture capital realm where a bunch of folks were coming up and asking me about, oh, where’s your deck and your term sheet and what are you raising? And like, I didn’t even understand any of the terms. I was like, I don’t know. And so I just like, put this pocket full of business cards. And I actually left after the lunch because I was like, I’m looking stupid. I can’t answer any of these questions.
And then kind of from there, that was kind of when GetintheLoop was born, coming out of there, I started to realize like, oh, we’re kind of on to something and, and then realized just how big the need is for local business to, like, leverage technology to make a difference. Right? And that’s what we’ve been trying to work hard for the last ten years.
Jeremy Weisz 16:04
And I think when you started, you spent less than $1,000 just to get that MVP going. What was the next like kind of key hires along the journey for you?
Matt Crowell 16:15
Yeah, I mean, it was an $800 website initially just to get the concept going. And then, you know, the next big kind of key hires were we ended up having our VP of engineering moved from Germany, and he came to an accelerator event looking for a job and a place to live. And we were able to provide him with both. And so his name is Lukas. So he was like our first okay, we’ve got a developer and like we just luckily got him the first day he was in Canada.
And because like, you know, we probably couldn’t afford them, but it was like the perfect match. And he’s still a big part of the team. And then next we actually brought on a CTO, Cayley. And so being that it was a tech product and I wasn’t a developer, I mean, the first few key hires was really on the engineering side. And then as we started to scale customers, it was like customer success, sales and eventually operators. I don’t claim to be the best at running a business, and so I needed people that could hold it all together.
Jeremy Weisz 17:07
What were some of the key features that people were demanding? Because obviously you’re iterating the product. You’re iterating who the customer is from the consumer to the business. What were some of the key features that people were demanding from you?
Matt Crowell 17:26
Yeah, I mean, the biggest thing was automation. That’s been like the biggest thing because our key customer is a small business. And so everything we’ve always been working on is like, how do you make it so they don’t have to do much? They’re flipping the burgers, they’re washing the floors. They’re doing everything it takes to make that business successful.
And so anytime we talk to our customers and get feedback, it’s all about, I love what you’re doing, but if you didn’t have to call me so much or I didn’t have to give you ideas, or I didn’t have to play a role in this, it would be even better. And like, that’s probably the number one thing they’ve been focusing on. And like, that’s what we’ve been focused on the last few years is like, how do you make this turnkey and automated? And, you know, we didn’t obviously build the technology, but like AI has changed the game for us in that as like AI is obviously so great at automation. And so like the last couple of years, there’s been huge changes in what we could actually provide.
It’s like it’s really kind of changed how we can go to market and what we can offer a business, because reality was we kind of had to be working hand in hand with them. As much as we were a SaaS tech platform, it was still a lot that small businesses inputs that drove it. And today we’re trying to get to the point that it can be a lot more like click and shoot for them.
Jeremy Weisz 18:26
I do think a good example, I’m going to pull it up here, is obviously you listen to your consumers, customers and we have social you know one of the social AI here and how some of the retailers on the malls are using it for social. Can you talk about that?
Matt Crowell 18:46
Yeah. I mean, a mall has uniquely a pretty decent social following because they got people that are following along to see what the events are, the sales, what time they’re open, things like that. And retailers, they’re really the content that a mall has. That’s the reason people come to them. Right?
And for years we’ve been working with shopping centers and all the retailers wanted was how do we get on their website? And so we created, like web widgets years ago, where we could help all of the retailers local deals, go live to a business or a mall’s website. And then with the sort of creation of AI, all of a sudden we could do that with their social as well. And so today, like a big part of why social has been so powerful for the shopping centers is we have tons of great content on our platform from all of their retailers, and now we can hook it up. And each day, one of the new retailers deals goes live to a mall’s social profile.
So for the shopping center, it’s giving you great content every day that you can show the following and gives reason for people to come visit, but more importantly, for the tenants. That’s huge. I mean, you want to be seen and heard, and you want to be more integrated into what the shopping center is doing. And it’s all automated with social AI. So you can imagine that was a lot of people having to talk in the past and today it’s pretty simple.
Jeremy Weisz 19:55
How do you decide on pricing?
Matt Crowell 20:00
Yeah, I mean, generally we try and find a price point that’s going to allow us to get to that first 100 customers, you know, with a feature or a new product set. And then we have lived in the small business realm. So our pricing has to be as affordable and competitive as we can be. So we try and break down. What’s this going to cost us to service, onboard you know, and when will we start to make money as a SaaS platform. And then. And then from there we try and take it to market and get our first 100 customers. And then generally we’re trying to build features around it that are going to add more value so that we can start to raise the price that starts to make more and more sense for us. Like as we’ve kind of gone down the line, it’s a balancing act of, you know, scale versus margin on each customer and, you know, we’re still learning.
Jeremy Weisz 20:46
At what point do you decide to take on funding for the business?
Matt Crowell 20:53
You know, we were kind of bootstrapped early on. And then we took on a little bit of investment. And then we kind of grew lock and step where we would grow revenue for the team and raise money over the years. We got to the point we were breaking even right before the pandemic happened, I guess now four years ago. And then when the pandemic hit, we were a big company with a lot of recurring revenue, that we lost all of it.
And so we had to learn to raise some money again through the pandemic. We raised a few million dollars through the pandemic to keep us going. And then we’ve been, you know, breaking even or so for the last 15 or so months. And so it’s been more out of need and trying to just we’ve always been kind of just looking 6 to 12 months ahead and growing like that. Like we’ve never taken on big venture funding. We’ve never had some big round. It’s kind of been like piecemealing it the last ten years.
Jeremy Weisz 21:42
And when you raise money, what’s the expectation? Do they just want you to grow it as quickly as possible and not worry about the, you know, making money at first?
Matt Crowell 21:54
Yeah. I mean, this is my first startup, right. And I’m, I guess ten years into my career now. And I mean, that’s changed a lot. So yeah, there was like early on your first investors are like, Matt just worked so hard, let’s give him money. We believe in him. And then then it gets a little bit more sophisticated and they, you know, grow, grow, grow, find an exit. And then there was this phase during the pandemic that was like, grow at all costs. You’re not even burning enough. And it was like, oh, okay.
And now everybody’s like, oh, you better be profitable. And so it’s like, as founders, I’ve learned that, you know, the markets and sediment can change the game. It’s because, like, I don’t think the actual economics of the businesses change or our goals as much as how the market sediment changes.
I can tell you, I’ve literally had investment bankers who told me you’re not raising enough and you’re not burning enough. You should be growing faster. And then four months later, like you’re burning, you can’t be burning in this market. And you’re like, oh, must be nice to get to create the rules. And so it’s like, that’s been my experience anyways.
It’s not simple and it’s my first go around. So I’m hoping I’ve kind of learned all of the roller coaster that is. And in my next ten years, I get to leverage some of that knowledge and be a bit more prepared.
Jeremy Weisz 23:06
What did you learn, Matt, with raising money? It feels like it’d be a full time job in itself.
Matt Crowell 23:15
Yeah, I mean, over the years I think if I learned anything is, you know, finding the right investors early and then creating a bit of a story around how we’re going to work together to grow the business. You know, early on, I created this thing that, like, I didn’t just want to go meet a bunch of people and pitch. So it was like, hey, you had to refer people into the business. Like, hey, if we’re going to raise some money, does anybody know anybody? I’d rather it be connected to the group.
And naturally, getting referred on for investment meant I thought I was really good at it. Because if people are showing up to referral, you’re more successful. And so it’s always been like kind of growing like that, like a spider web. It’s been based off of our own investors referring us on. And then I think just being very transparent about what I can guarantee, and that is I’m going to work real hard. My team’s going to work real hard. Nobody’s going to outwork us. Nobody’s going to try harder.
But we’re in a tech startup space like we aren’t a huge established business. It’s not clear how we’re going to get there. And that’s a bit of the risk. And I think we’ve been pretty transparent the whole time, as transparent as you possibly can be. And that’s been the number one focus is like be honest, be transparent, and be very committed to how hard you’re going to work.
Because I didn’t come from this industry. I don’t have 20 years of experience in it. Like I couldn’t anchor in those things of like, why am I going to go be successful? So the one thing I could anchor in was like, I’m going to work real hard. And that’s the one promise I’ve made.
Jeremy Weisz 24:34
Who have been important mentors to you in business throughout the journey?
Matt Crowell 24:39
I mean, I’ve had so many I mean, one mentor that’s I mean, he’s a partner in the business, he’s Mark Payne. He joined very early on and, and has been kind of anything the business needed over ten years. But at the same time, probably a sounding board more often than not to. And somebody I’ve talked to 3 to 5 days a week for ten years in a row and he actually lives in the UK. So he would be somebody that I, that I would point to that’s been super impactful.
And then the thing I’ve noticed over the years is like, you kind of have folks come and go based on the needs of the business and the entrepreneur. You know, when we’ve been raising capital, I’ve had amazing mentors. Our CFO today, Coulter Wright, is also a mentor of mine that had a lot more experience, and he’s helped me out a ton. You know, when you’re trying to grow a product or partner with media, anything that we’ve been doing, I found that you start to find mentors in that space and then it’s like, are you personally connected and how does that work? You know, and so I leverage mentors a lot.
I’m not great at reading. And so a lot of my learnings come from phone calls and listening to folks that have been there, and I’ve had a lot of folks that have helped me out over the years.
Jeremy Weisz 25:42
What was an important lesson or piece of advice from Mark that you remember?
Matt Crowell 25:51
Well, I think it’s always like, you know, our motto has always been like, we might not have the best idea, but we’ll work the hardest. And, you know, and that’s the one thing is like, you know, no matter what, a lot of things can change in the environment that you’re in. But like if — as long as, you know, you gave it your best, that’s the thing you can be proud of and gets you up every morning. That would be one of the biggest things is like, you know, control what you can control, and that’s the effort you put in.
Jeremy Weisz 26:17
At what point does the franchise come into play? So it starts off obviously with the golf courses. You go to the consumers, consumers are paying then businesses, and you have all these tools for businesses. Where is the franchise piece come in?
Matt Crowell 26:36
It’s a funny story. It’s a good one. So we were partnered with all these media companies and we started to get acquisition interest. So everybody wanted to acquire us. We were kind of a young company. We’re just growing.
And so all of our media partners decided they were going to make the offers and some good, some bad, some in the middle. Nothing that we were looking for. It was kind of early days and so we turned down those offers and then all of a sudden found out that if you turn down your channel partner’s offer to acquire you, they stop selling your product and actually started to compete with us. And so, you know, I was going from this excitement of like, maybe they’re going to buy us and like, everybody likes us.
And then like within a month, it was like they’re all competing against us. Like, I got to go fire them and make a plan. And so we were sitting there like, okay, we’re kind of in a few provinces, we’re half big, but we’re not well-funded. And like, what are we going to do? And we had learned a lot through those partnerships that like getting on the ground and talking to local business was important, you needed somebody on the streets.
And we thought of creating an entrepreneur to speak their language like a business owner speaking to a business owner, because business owners are always getting sold to. And we thought we could create a different culture around it. And so I kind of came up with this concept that we’re going to franchise the platform. And I ended up like building a website in a few hours, and I put it on Kijiji and like started to market it like, hey, join the digital revolution, become a franchise entrepreneur.
And like through the first weekend, we had it live like a couple dozen people applied and were like interested in getting a franchise. And it was like, we’re on to something. And I think it was timing was right. There was like this digital revolution. People wanted to make money. Entrepreneurship is obviously very popular today. And so it just sort of took off on its own.
Jeremy Weisz 28:14
And so at the time, people and I don’t know, are there any other SaaS platforms that franchise at the time?
Matt Crowell 28:24
No. And I still don’t know if there is too many or is one. At the time, there was no SaaS platform that we had found that had franchised. Now, in variations, I mean, there’s a lot of folks, they do it in different ways. I mean, there’s licensing agreements and there’s local sales and commission reps.
And so, I mean, the idea of having somebody have a territory that they represent and add customers to your platform was not ours. But going the full franchising route was definitely something new to our business that we hadn’t found out there.
Jeremy Weisz 28:54
Yeah, because I think at one point you had maybe over 100 franchisors or franchisees actually. How did you decide to charge for the franchise then?
Matt Crowell 29:08
Yeah. I mean, one of my investors and also a mentor was Cliff Shillington, who led a lot of RE/MAX’s growth early on. And I mean there was no math to this. He was like, yeah, we just charge $35,000 a territory. And I was like, that makes sense.
We went with that price and then we backed in. A lot of the money that we took from a franchise fee was just reinvested into that entrepreneur of like getting them going, training on the ground. And so we just made sure that that was enough money to launch their business. And then the only way we made money was them being successful, really. But that was it, it was kind of Cliff mentioned a price.
And we’re like, okay, let’s do that. And then we realized that we were kind of a lot below any other franchise because we didn’t have any other costs. Whereas, you know, a traditional franchise, you got to go take out a lease and buy equipment and all this other stuff. And with us, that was it. You could get started right away.
Jeremy Weisz 29:56
Now, today, you know, you mentioned shopping centers, local businesses get on the GetintheLoop platform and they use it to market their business, get in front of consumers. And even, you know, HVAC, carpenters, electricians, anything. Rocky Point Carpentry was one of them. How do they use GetintheLoop?
Matt Crowell 30:22
Yeah. And I mean, I think they’re a good example of, like, just the hole we’re filling. So Rocky Point Carpentry has been around for a long time, but the last five years they started to build a social following. And so they created an Instagram and a Facebook handle and they’ve posted on it five times in four years. You know why? Because they’re building houses and doing renovations.
And it’s not what they do, but they know they should be there. And so they partnered with us as like we just need an always on presence. And so we have hooked them up to social AI. And now they’re getting posts out live twice a week around the services they offer. Maybe if they’re hiring a new member of the team, things like that.
So if you were to look at them, they look active, digital and, you know, on the forefront. But the reality is they’re still doing the same thing, but it’s strummed up quite a bit of new business for them in that their following is now aware. Oh, I didn’t realize you guys do closets or, you know, things like that. But probably the most important thing we’re doing for them is a lot of people go to social media to search the business and get to know them first. And if it looks like you might not be in business anymore, that’s a real problem.
And so when you go to theirs now, it looks active, it’s vibrant, and it tells you what they’re doing. And so that’s probably the thing we’ve done most is just make them seem relevant.
Jeremy Weisz 31:31
So how does it work? They sign up. Do they log into a dashboard and then plug something in? I know it’s connected and it’s the social AI, when I was looking at it, it could do, you know, weekly posts. There’s a lot of features to it. How does it work from the business side to get it all configured?
Matt Crowell 31:56
Yeah, I mean, from a business point of view, they basically go through an onboarding checklist. So we kind of understand what their goals are. Hey, I want people to know about my services. I want them to know about some specials. I want them to know about my hiring, whatever that is.
And we build content into the platform. I mean, that platform has been around for ten years, so it’s a platform that helps them. Hey, let’s come up with a promotion strategy, a contesting or a loyalty strategy. And then we take all of that content and then it all gets written through AI to like write social posts on their behalf. So it adds hashtags and emojis and switches up the images. So it seems creative and all of that.
But it’s all anchored in what a business is trying to achieve. And generally that could be through a 15 minute phone call, or they could just fill out like sort of an onboarding checklist, and it gets the business thinking about what they’re trying to achieve. Because that’s the other thing that social AI is doing, even if a business is posting, if you were to look at most local businesses, they’re very rarely asking for money. It’s like, oh, it’s caturday or we heard it’s pizza week or, you know, or whatever it is, as opposed to like, hey, we have a promotion. Hey, did you know we have a loyalty rewards or we’re looking to hire.
And so because they’re pre-thinking about the content they want to create and then that plugs into social AI. That content is backed by a strategy that can make a difference.
Jeremy Weisz 33:07
What has worked, you know, even from the SAS interviews and agency interviews, I’m always fascinated by onboarding. And that could be digital onboarding. Or actually, like you mentioned, it seems like there’s a couple different ways people onboard with you. So I’d love to hear what’s worked over the years from an onboarding perspective and what hasn’t.
Matt Crowell 33:30
Yeah, I mean, we’re trying to go to an all digital onboarding right now. And so over the years, I mean, what’s worked is spending a lot of time up front with that business to make sure you’re aligned and understand their strategy. But in a low cost SaaS model, that doesn’t work, maybe monetarily all the time. And so trying to create that balance between getting enough info out of that business to make sure you’re aligned to their strategy and set them off, but then just be there when they need you. And over the years, we used to over service so much and that actually affected churn a lot.
The number one thing we did to limit churn was stop talking to our customers. And it’s because what it’s doing is eventually a business will say, I’m too busy. I just got to cancel this or. Or it’s reminding them about it of like, hey, it’s an always on strategy, I had a bad financial day today, I should cancel that. Even though, like, they’re not judging how you’re doing, how it’s performing. It’s like they just got a bill they didn’t like and so they’re going to cancel yours.
And so it’s like been a real balance to learn how many touchpoints and for what reason. And the more and more small businesses are so busy and they’re becoming digitally connected. We think it’s like, let it be on their time when it works for them, even booking them into a, hey, a 50 minute onboarding call, you know, how many of those they miss? 75% because they’re too busy.
So it’s like we’re trying to create a world where it’s like we’re always here. We want to be somebody that chats to you, but we’re trying to create this where it’s like, you’re a busy business owner. Let’s do it on your time and through the click of the button on your phone. So that’s where we’re trying to go to is all digital for a small business all through like email if we can. But we’re always there for, you know, the kind of customer that wants to have a quick phone call.
Jeremy Weisz 35:01
So in addition to email, Matt, are there certain features and things you’ve built into the site and software to help with the onboarding? What’s worked as far as that goes so that, you know, they can kind of do it asynchronously on their own time and when they want. But it’s hard because like when you’re on the phone with someone, it holds them accountable. It’s easy to get a lot done, but getting them on the phone is difficult. So what do you do digitally that helps them move them along?
Matt Crowell 35:32
Yeah, I mean email is the number one thing really is like a constant reminders of hey, you got to update this. So it is a full SaaS platform. And I mean, we work a lot to make it very easy to use. But as an example, with the social AI feature is one of the things that happens is every week you get an email that tells you about the content that’s coming up that week, that you can click and edit one step so they don’t have to log into the platform and think about it. It’s like, hey, this is what’s coming up this week. If there’s anything you don’t like, you should edit it now.
Otherwise it’s all going to go live to your social feeds. And the number one thing that we realize by sending that is you’re reminding them of the value every week. It’s like for very little money you’re getting value this week. Here’s some social posts that are teed up. And so it’s like it’s a real balance of communicating enough but not too much. Right. Or else you become a problem.
Jeremy Weisz 36:15
There’s another interesting, I found , use case with micro farms.
Matt Crowell 36:23
Yeah. That’s where definitely we are onboarding over the phone with those. So we partnered with Tourism Couch and out of Vancouver Island again. And it was basically what they’re trying to do is different regions. A lot of tourism group’s job is to create awareness and why you would come to that region.
And one of the big reasons for that region is they have all these amazing micro farms with the climate there. They have just amazing stuff, but nobody knows about them. And generally farms aren’t on main street, you know, and they’re in the back alleys. And so our app is always location based and our platform is like really simple to promote the products and services that you’re offering. And so we have been supporting, I think it’s over 60 micro farms using the platform to promote the fact that, hey, you know, it’s time sensitive stuff. We’ve got apples, but they’re fresh for a few weeks, or we’ve got this new thing that’s coming out.
And for a consumer, everybody wants to support local today. But it’s still not easy to find the local companies. They don’t have the dollars and ability to actually get into your social feeds like a big retailer can. And so that’s been like a really successful project. We’ve been working with them for a couple of years now, and it’s fun trying to make a difference for a farmer. You know, they’re competing against save on foods. And so how do you make a difference for them?
Jeremy Weisz 37:38
I was actually listening to an interview. Shout out to Michael Sarnoff. Hard to find seminars. And he was interviewing someone who was making $1 million a year selling fruit from a fruit stand, and it was a fascinating interview on what he learned from a messaging perspective. And kind of like what you were saying, if he’s selling to, like, stores or wherever, whatever it was making like $1.50 a bushel, but selling from a stand was making triple that, right?
And so it was just interesting where the location they put the messaging on the signs and exactly what you were talking about. He was saying one of the things that worked was, you know, whatever it was fresh pick of the week because they know, like, first of all, there’s scarcity. It could go away. And second of all, it’s fresh, right? As opposed to going in, you know, we’ve been to the grocery store where stuff kind of looks like it’s been sitting there for a while. So I love the micro farm idea. I know that you’re in Canada. What was the reason I think you stuck in Canada and didn’t branch out outside into the US or anything like that?
Matt Crowell 38:57
Yeah, I mean, we actually, you know, entrepreneurial lessons. We actually invested quite a bit a couple of years ago to launch into the US, set up a Delaware company and all that stuff you’re supposed to to get down there and, and then it just we weren’t seeing the bounce back in our business in Canada, where it felt like we were ready to stretch ourselves into the US, like we’re a well capitalized enough and just in the right headset. I mean, we are now with social AI looking at expanding into the US again because it’s a lot more remote. We’re less location based and community based and more like a business set of tools today.
But yeah, we thought about that a couple of years ago, put quite a bit of investment into doing it. And then at the last minute we’re like, we’re not ready and slowed down, but we’re getting there again. And the intention is to get down into the US again.
Jeremy Weisz 39:43
I feel like I’m curious what you think your superpower is in business. From an outside perspective, it feels like you’re really good at building partnerships that stuck out in the journey. What has worked well for you in building these partnerships, whether it’s, I mean, shopping centers, kind of a partnership, these radio networks, these media networks, what’s worked with forming these, you know, one to many partnerships?
Matt Crowell 40:13
Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of how a company goes to market or how an individual kind of becomes successful is it to me, I’m like, I’m naturally curious. I ask a lot of questions and I truly care. I mean, I think that’s why I was successful in raising money. And I think partnerships are kind of the same way is like, you know, in a startup, people have to take a chance on you. You’re not what everybody else is buying.
And they and so they need to know that you care. And that’s been the number one thing that I’ve brought to most of the partnerships we’ve done is like, they know I’m going to give it my all. You know, they know that we have the technology capabilities of executing, but a lot of it is really understanding the other side. If you’re able to understand the other side, you’re able to pretty quickly show value. And I think we’re good at asking a lot of questions.
Jeremy Weisz 40:55
Matt, I have one last question. Before I ask it, I want to just point people to GetintheLoop. You can check it out at GetintheLoop.ca. If you’re in Canada and you are a business, check it out, or if you’re a consumer as well.
My last question is what’s next for GetintheLoop. Obviously you keep building on and you’ve been doing this for a long time now. What’s on the horizon?
Matt Crowell 41:24
Yeah, I mean, for us, I mean, the next real big thing is continually add features and functionality to the social AI product that we’ve launched here. We’re hearing a lot from our first 100 customers on what they want out of that. And so the next thing is like adding micro boosting to that and, and really just continuing to develop on the momentum we have there. And then trying to get into the US you know. As most Canadian startups view success as of course, it’s great to be across Canada, which we are. But really hitting scale and getting successful is by proving that you can do this in the US.
And that’s like that’s the next step for the company, is we believe that the new direction of being more of a set of tools allows us to expand into the US pretty simply. And that’s really the next big thing we need to do is conquer getting into the US and then growing successfully throughout the US.
Jeremy Weisz 42:13
Matt, I want to be the first one to thank you everyone. Check out GetintheLoop.ca to learn more, and more episodes of the podcast. We will see everyone next time. Matt, thanks so much.
Matt Crowell 42:25
Thanks everyone. See you.