Jeremy Weisz
we have a podcast service.
John Corcoran
I do want to point out that there are other ways of doing it. But we have found over the years that it’s not as effective for a number of reasons. So you know, people use this strategy you know, by featuring people in a book or an article or a video. interview or something along those lines. And what we found is that the best combination of speed and simplicity is the personal connection. And personal connection is using a podcast. You know, I wrote for Forbes for a number of years Business Insider, I’ve written for
Jeremy Weisz
a lot of people in those articles
John Corcoran
I did. And what I found was that, at the end of the year, really, you know, because of all the work that went into it, I would end up connecting with, you know, half dozen, 1012 people, something like that, you know, it was difficult. I mean, it is writing an article is not easy, you crafting those things takes a long time, it takes a lot of time, you get to get through the editorial process to get accepted to larger platforms like that. And what I eventually found is that you could maximize the number of relationships, which is really the name of the game, if you actually were just recording something, and you didn’t have to spend all that time in the post production process of writing an article producing an article getting it published, getting past editorial process, all that kind of stuff.
Jeremy Weisz
Yeah, so the first is give short break, we’ll break down actually, our exact emails, but the first one is give, we want to make sure there’s a give in that outreach message. Great. So what’s the second piece? The second is social proof? Right? So if anyone is studying direct response, marketing copywriting, that they will pound into your head, that that you have to have social proof elements, and we’ll break down what is social proof elements social be? Well, you you did it in the beginning of the interview, right? You say, I’ve had founders of, you know, CEOs of Activision Blizzard lendingtree, Open Table, like, that’s social proof, because they’re saying, oh, john, have you had these other people? Or Jeremy, you’ve had the founders of Atari p90x Rx bar. You these people, that’s complete social proof. Right, um, and providing it, they’re essentially vouching that you are that individual. It’s validating, it’s validating that you’re legit.
John Corcoran
Yes. Okay. Got it. So how do you do that? If you feel like you don’t have any social proof? What is what is that? Like?
Jeremy Weisz
Yeah, we get that a lot. So Exactly. So let’s say you feel like well, I, let’s say something. You know, some people say to us all the time, I just started my podcast, I don’t have any guests. What do I do? Well, most of the time, they have some type of social proof. They have past client, you know, we say past clients, past people, they worked with years of experience in the industry, like we had, I was talking to someone this morning. They’ve been in the medical industry for 40 years. Well, they’ve had some of the, you know, consultant been some some part of some of the top medical schools in the country. And so that is social proof. I’ve been this for 40 years, I’ve had, you know, basically how this medical school, this medical school, this medical school, like naming the medical schools are social proof, the years of social proof. So there’s a lot of social proof there.
John Corcoran
So it’s often maybe things that are already in your bio, like, if you’re going to read a bio view, what are the things that you would recount if you’ve written a book, The name of the book, if you’ve been quoted in certain reputable well known publications, you’d maybe do that your education, certainly your experience? All those sorts of things? Yeah, yeah. And okay, so that’s the second piece. So the third piece was the third piece.
Jeremy Weisz
The third piece is what is called the velvet rope. And we want to give credit for that. So John, why don’t you talk about the velvet rope?
John Corcoran
Yeah. So I give credit to Michael Port, has been a big mentor, and a friend uses this term, in a number of his books. And what it means is, essentially, is you want to make it so that they want to get inside, you know, think of like a club or something like that has a velvet rope outside, you know, even if there’s no one inside of this belt, we’re open to people waiting in line, like everyone wants to get in. So it’s kind of the same thing. So you want to make sure that it’s not just that it’s open to anyone, we’ll just take anyone, but I’m, I want to profile you on a feature you. And because you’re one of the top CMOS in the manufacturing industry in the tri state area, or because you’re one of the top, you know, business development executives in the southern Florida area working in retail today. You know, it’s like you want them to want to be a part of that community or group of people that you’re going to be featuring. And actually a concept that you use is your idea of a series not a season, especially when it comes to podcasts. So a lot of times you see podcasts and people do want to do a season. There’s a big difference between the series series in a season. So talk a little bit about that. Yeah,
Jeremy Weisz
I mean, it’s similar. That’s that is exactly i would i didn’t realize that’s what I was doing at the time but is a velvet rope. Right. So If I did you know, so I went to University of Wisconsin Madison. And when I did the top Wisconsin entrepreneur series, that was people want to be included in the top Wisconsin entrepreneur series. You know,
John Corcoran
I’m considered a top founder from your own alma mater. It’s like he
Jeremy Weisz
made it right. And the thing is, John, I realized that I was going to do the top university of wisconsin series, but I realized, well, why not just do Wisconsin? Like, broaden it. And there’s lots of people that came out of university of Milwaukee, you know, University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee, lacrosse, Madison. So I was like, I just made a broader and did Wisconsin series, but that’s the velvet rope. It’s a velvet rope in terms of grouping them into a series.
John Corcoran
So Right, right. So now, did we talk about the commonality or the common Connect? Oh, do we talk about I think we saw over that, but that’s it? No.
Jeremy Weisz
So the next one will actually with open loop was an excellent, so it has to have a gift. It has to have social proof. You have to have a velvet rope. You don’t have to, but it works better. And open loop. Yeah.
John Corcoran
So you do the open. Yeah. So the open loop is not including all of the information in your initial outreach message so that the person wants to it opens a loop so to speak, so that they want to close that loop, we naturally have a curiosity towards that. So if someone says I can share more details with you, or set says like, let me know if that’s of interest. And I’ll, you know, provide for you the additional information that you would need, you know, people naturally are curious. And so what you want to do in an outreach message like this is open that loop so it’s naturally invites them to respond, if nothing more than to get that additional information. But then what that effectively does is it carries forward the conversation when it gets a response, and it gets you a new conversation. And then it’s harder for people to say no, once they are in that conversation. No. I mean, you know, john, I went down the path into the top direct response marketing copywriting series, right. And I had some of the best people on the planet. And one of the things they said was, there was a story about what’s the number one thing that you want to make sure to include in your copy out of anything, and there was lots of guesses.
Jeremy Weisz
And, and so, if you want to find out more, you have to listen to next episode. No, we can open a loop and just actually haven’t watched but the number one thing was curiosity. The number one thing was curiosity. Gary Halbert, I think I don’t remember who I was talking to me was Caleb Oh, doubt or Sam Mark was one of the Gary Halbert protegees. And it was a Gary Halbert story. And that’s, you know, comes from him. And it was curiosity. So opening a loop creates some curiosity,
John Corcoran
right. And if you watch any local news, if you listen to, you know, News Radio anytime they do this every time, right, right before the commercial break, you know, next coming up next, have we found them out the fountain of youth? Fine. We’ll be right back, you know, and it’s like, oh, my gosh, I’m gonna stay for to listen to these commercials. So that’s exactly what’s happening there. And the
Jeremy Weisz
next one is what you’re referring to. So give social proof, velvet rope, open loop. The next is instant connection in seconds. So how do you form instant connection?
John Corcoran
And I think we were alluding to it earlier, it’s with things that you have in common, right?
Jeremy Weisz
Yeah, I mean, instant connection. So again, like all this is customized, this isn’t just templated you just throw it out to everyone, you really need to customize this, but it’s the connection. You know, if you look at someone’s most the time, you can look at someone’s LinkedIn profile and form some kind of instant connection or their about page. It could be john, somewhere where they live. It could be a college they went to, it could be a Hey, Michael. It could be, you know, anything that you were like, it could be they have four kids, I was reading something, you know, this morning, one of the people is reaching out to they wrote an article on like, having six kids and running a business. So if I were john reaching out to that person go, I’m not as cool as you I have four kids, you have six kids, and you get this instant connection. Like we’re both entrepreneurs that have a lot of kids. So there is definitely something you can find in and I think you and I kind of hone in on that in the beginning when we’re looking at something how do we form an instant connection with someone? Um, it could be places you live hobbies, you have all those things. Yeah,
John Corcoran
right. This just happened yesterday. You emailed someone cc me on it, and I looked down at the person’s email signature, and it said that they were from my hometown, not the one I live in now but the one I went to high school to live there. And I look, I knew the exact address knew exactly where the building is and everything. And I just mentioned that I just said, Oh, hey, you’re right from right near you went to the high school goes by? No, because that’s an immediate connection. You know, it’s beyond you. Yeah. Immediate. Right. So any final thoughts?
Jeremy Weisz
No. So let’s go through some actual copy, we have a, we have some different approaches. So we can maybe read the actual copy of the email. I know, sometime you have a short email that you’ll send with the loop and then do a long email. And then sometimes, honestly, I just go straight with the long email, which I should probably do more of what you do, which is open a loop. So I’ll read my direct, you know, my cold email, and I sent 11 of these today, and modify them accordingly. So
John Corcoran
yeah, let you go with your short and long version. Sure, sure. So I have a short version, this is so short, that I can use it via text message I can use via email and use it on a LinkedIn message, however, and often I use it once I have already had an immediate connection with them, but like in an email exchange, or something like that, or I’m connected with them on LinkedIn already. Or sometimes I send it cold. So before I’ve had any real communication with them, so I’ll say something just like, the first sentence is just straight into the point. If I have something in common, then it’d be something like, hey, by the way, you know, we both went to university, of San Francisco or something like that, you know, we have something in common or, hey, we both did a sin. Do you want to lead with the instant connection? Right, you know, or Hey, you know, Bill Jones told me that I should reach out and connect with you. He said, You guys had a great time last month in Cabo, or whatever, you know, something that you have in common. So and then I’ll say, I’d love to interview you on my podcast period. I’ve been podcasting since in my case, 20 2010. But you don’t have to put that in there if you haven’t been doing it for a while. And I’ve interviewed 400 plus entrepreneurs, business owners, business book authors, including the founders of CEOs of Activision Blizzard lending tree, Open Table x software, contextually and many more. And I can share many, I can share more details, dot dot, dot, that’s intentional dot dot dot, because that is opening the loop right there.
Jeremy Weisz
So it’s very, the social proof, the velvet rope, the open loop and instant connection,
John Corcoran
each of the pieces are there. Right, right. So and then you know what, sometimes people read that and they think, well, I can’t do that. That’s, that’s his story. I don’t have any of those things. Well, but you just break it down by the different elements that we were talking about there. And you substitute your own social proof, you substitute your own experience or your own commonality. And you can structure an outreach message in the same way you want to share yours.
Jeremy Weisz
So go on, you want to talk about the long one.
John Corcoran
So the longer version then, so then when someone responds back, and they say, Great, I’d love to know more details, then I send them a longer version. And it basically just says here, all the details. And then I have multiple different paragraphs. So I’ll say, you know, how long I’ve been podcasting for this point, it’s been quite a while it’s been about 10 years now. But I’ve been doing this for a number of years. So I started doing it, you know, previously. And I talk a little bit about what I focus on the podcast. But pretty much this second follow up message is designed to answer every possible question that that person might have. Because I don’t want to spend a ton of time going back and forth answering questions. So I want to answer all their questions in there. So I give links to past episodes that they can check out, I give a list list, people who’ve been guests on my pod cast now that’s designed so that when they look over that when they look over the list of names, they say, Wow, how could I possibly say no to this outreach message, if all these other people said yes. So I also described what exactly I like to ask about because people frequently want to know, what are you going to ask me about. And then I give them a link directly to book a time so that they can go ahead and do it, you know, directly if they want. Or I say they can also message me back if they can’t find a time. format, I talked about what the format is how I record the interviews, how long they’re gonna last? I asked them I answer, you know, they often ask, you know, do you script? Do you send me the questions in advance? So I say, No, I don’t do that. And I’ll prescribe them I keep them casual. And then I give some information about me. So I say, you know, by the way, here’s some more details about me. And because they don’t, they don’t know much about me. And then finally, composition of my audience. That’s another common question that I got was who are the types of people that are going to be listening to this? So that’s the basic breakdown on the follow up message.
Jeremy Weisz
Yeah. Cool. Thanks for that. Yeah. And that’s a good point. You know what the second email or with my first email, you want to make sure you answer the most commonly asked questions that they’re going to have, because those are, you know, objections that they may have. Why not doing it? So I’ll tell you mine. And so my outreach, I, you know, I sent 11 of them today. You know, and I customize it. So usually I will look at their LinkedIn profile, I may even look at their about page. And if they’re important enough to you, you should do a little bit of research and give some context. So I basically will start off saying, you know, I really love what you’ve done with that this company. And I won’t stop there. And I will say something like, I saw that in 2015, you got just 2015 alone, you added 72 staff, and this year, you moved into another large facility, so I’ll actually show them I did a little research on them. I’m not just like, blanket, you know, messaging them. Or here, like you said, the instant connection piece, I may say, you know, john told me that you had an amazing company. And once I looked at it, I saw you did XYZ. So immediately they know you, john, they’re like, oh, cool, like I’ll read on because I know john two or whoever. So there’s an instant, you know, connection. The next piece is, like you said, giving some social proof because they’re like, Okay, cool. We have mutual connections. And then I say with the exact ask, I would love to feature you on my podcast. So you want to be straightened to the point so they don’t have to read three paragraphs deep to know what you’re asking. So write is straight to the point. I’d love to have you on my podcast. Now. They’re thinking, why would I go on your podcast? Right? So now you got to provide some social proof. And say, I love to teach you alongside other founders. I’ve had the CEOs and founders of p90x quest, nutrition, Einstein, bagels, Atari, Mattel, Baby Einstein, Bigley Chu, the list goes on. So I say you’ll definitely be a good company. And if you haven’t had those, like john said before, you could just include whatever social proof elements you have. And then here’s what I put out. I will say check out this link, check out the links in my signature for popular episodes. Like if they’re interested, sometimes I will take so like in my signature, I have the link to the p90x one, Einstein bagels, the Atari one. But here, I may put something really industry specific to them. Like if it says top SAS founder and they’ve heard of, you know, Zapier, I will go, here’s the one I know you’re in SAS, here’s the one I did with, you know, Wade, founder of Zapier, and I’ll put it in there. So someone in their industry, and then I will even borrow credibility. You know, the other thing is, we talked about social proof, you could borrow credibility from platforms. So we’re going to promote the interviews, to our email subscribers, social media, iTunes, Google Play Spotify, and many more. And if you have a number around that, which we do, we’re gonna promote it to over 165,000 of our email subscribers, social media following. Put that in there. Yeah. And then then I asked, do the ask again, because I said in the front, I’d love to have you on the podcast, all I want is a yes or no. Like john opens a loop, I just want to yes or no, and then I’ll send more details. So I go, would you be up for an interview? Question mark, and then I put parentheses some people don’t now we’re not traveling? Some people was like, is this via phone? Are we meeting in person? So I will say, it’s all done via video conference, you know, conference in the comfort of your own home, close parentheses. And then thanks, Jeremy. And then I have, you know, anyone worth their salt. And copywriting has taught me have a PS. So of course, I have a PS, you know, and so you whatever you put in the PS, it could be more social proof. It could be another interview link. I put, you know, I’ve already asked, I just want to yes or no, like, Are you interested? Or not? Like, would you be up for an interview? That’s it. So I’m always like,
John Corcoran
the gradual nature of that. Are you up for an interview? It’s not even like committing to like scheduling a time. It’s just yeah, you know, time to the idea. Yeah, exactly. But Totally, yeah, you know, one of one of the thing I was going to mention that I put in some outreach messages, or in a follow up, I’ll say, you know, if you look through my past guest list, you’ll see I’ve had a very impressive list of CEOs, founders, entrepreneurs, that sort of thing. In many cases, after I’ve conducted the interview, I know more about you. And I’ve been able to make great introductions between my guests introducing some of you know, my guests to other prior guests, which have led to all kinds of different things from people starting businesses together, to strategic partnerships, referral arrangements, great collaborations, that sort of thing. So you can take a look at my past guest list, and there may be someone that I may be able to introduce you to. So that’s
Jeremy Weisz
a great thing to lead with, actually, because that’s another give besides being on the podcast, it’s like, I’m gonna You and I both make maybe 10 to 20 introductions every day. So I should probably put that in my outreach message.
John Corcoran
Yeah. Right. So I don’t have any,
Jeremy Weisz
I should add, I’m gonna change that. PPS, PPS, there you go. And because of this conversation, so that’s great.
John Corcoran
So what I find Jeremy on this,
Jeremy Weisz
no, um, and I guess in the PS, I will, if they want to make it super easy, I will sometimes include, you know, maybe here, I, you know, send me your schedule to make it super convenient or throw out a few times, or here’s my schedule type of thing. So, I think that’s it. I think that about sums it up, you know, make sure to include those elements of give. Mm hmm. Social proof, velvet rope, open loop, instant connection.
John Corcoran
Well, that was great. Dr. Weisz, remind everyone where they can connect with you and learn more about you
Jeremy Weisz
I mean, if they go to Rise25 and when I tell people go to ride, so if I’ve watched the video, John, people say we’re like an old married couple bantering on the opening video, um,
John Corcoran
is there nine or 10 minute video there? It’s kind of funny. You and I talking about some of the strategies that we’re talking about?
Jeremy Weisz
Yeah, we’ll talk about some of the strategies. And you know, since I think, you know, john, I can actually share my screen. So I’m going to do that. And I’ll show you so this video here as we actually were running the podcast official podcast of a large 17,000 person conference. And we talked about some of the principles of podcasting and how do you get ROI from podcasting?
John Corcoran
Right. Alright, so thanks, everyone. We’ll talk again soon. Bye bye.
