Search Interviews:

Jeremy Weisz 4:46

questions about that like a company saying listen, like let’s say, a nutritional supplement company or another company say, hey, we want to run this campaign. Do you have a recommendation for a copywriter? Or do they usually have someone in house or someone they work with?

Dave Klein 4:59

Yeah, I think we come up against both. It’s kind of interesting. I had a recent conversation with a nutritional supplement company that was looking to try direct mail some media, because right now they’re 100%. Online. A lot of its Facebook, Instagram, Google, and of course, Amazon. And we were talking about the importance of, you know, the mailpiece, in terms of driving individuals and being benefits specific. And about the cost to actually produce a mailpiece is fairly expensive. And I think people get a lot of they get sticker shock when they hear that they can be spending upwards of $20,000 for a full blown 28 page, let’s say booklet, which is very common in the nutritional supplement category, in terms of prospecting pieces. So I held it up, you know, and I kind of showed them on the screen, flip through it and page, not page by page, but kind of page by page. And these, they’re like, Well, we have great copywriters, you know, they’re really good at copy. And I think we could design pieces like that. So can we just do it ourselves? I’m like, of course, you could do it yourself. The problem with taking on something like that is unless you really know what what you’re doing. And the stakes are very expensive, because essentially, you just threw all that money into postage, and all that money into printing and all that money into list cost. And if you don’t get a good return on it, then I mean, it doesn’t really matter whether I wrote it, you wrote it or, you know, you want to remove the variables that can affect the mailing the most in the worst way. And the two most important variables in any direct mail marketing program is the mail piece and copy. Design is a big part of that as well. And the list. And those have to marry together perfectly. There’s tons of people in the business world that have done direct mail that have had bad results, and the like direct mail doesn’t work, which is absurd, because direct mail is one of the biggest media in the entire country, in terms of rep sales, and in terms of actual just messages out there. Direct Mail is huge. And it does work. But if you don’t work with people that know what they’re doing, it doesn’t work.

Jeremy Weisz 7:16

I mean, you know, you look at Google, right? I mean, I get tons of direct mail from Google. Right. And they own online, essentially.

Dave Klein 7:26

Facebook in the is one of the biggest direct mail companies. So it’s Google. Absolutely. Most of your major corporations that have huge online presences are doing direct mail and using direct mail now. And so it’s been a very interesting change in that media. That, you know, I would say has really happened over the last five years where you’re starting to see, you know, peloton and DraftKings and Tommy John DoorDash, farmer’s dog, freshly, and you name it, like they’re all mirror. They’re all using direct mail now as part of their acquisition strategy. And it makes sense. I mean, as long as you’re as long as your ROI, your cost of acquisition is comparable or less than another media, why would you forego it, just, you know, there’s no reason not to use it. And we’re going to walk

Jeremy Weisz 8:16

through some specific examples with specific companies. And then Dave’s gonna actually show some examples on the screen. So if you’re watching, listening, you can watch the video on inspired Insider. And we’ll actually be walking through some of these things. You know, I do want to mention, you know, people who are all online. These are some other strategies, some other avenues for you to acquire customers, right. So we’re going to walk through some direct mail stuff that he’s seeing how it’s changing walkthrough, space advertising, if you don’t know what that is, we’ll go over it. And there’s this opportunity in alternative media and package inserts, and it will get the brainstorming juices flowing a bit. I do want to mention, Dave, that Steve Wexler was awesome. I have had him on the podcast, and we did an episode and he shared all no may rest in peace. He was just seemed like an awesome individual. And he shared some great stuff as far as direct response copy and in marketing in general.

Dave Klein 9:14

Yeah, he was brilliant.

Jeremy Weisz 9:17

So let’s start with just give people an overview a little bit about the company and what you do when someone says, Dave, I want to work with you. What does that typically look like in your services?

Dave Klein 9:31

Yes, so a traditional list brokerage list management company represents data files, and they also identify those lists sources that would be ideal for a direct mail campaign, by definition, that’s the job of a list broker, right? So that’s what I started doing when I first got into business. That’s what I still do. But

Jeremy Weisz 9:52

also someone says, Dave, I have this product I want to reach 52 53 year old males in this demographic and X X number of attributes and you would help them.

Dave Klein 10:05

Yeah, I tried to find the perfect list or the perfect set of lists for them, usually that you could tell by just looking at the mailpiece, who their demographic is, right. So if you’ve got a lot of experiments with these types of things, you know, I remember, back in my early days, this probably goes back into the late 90s, maybe early 2000s, I was working with capital, one credit card, and we weren’t working with their normal, you know, pre approved credit card, it’s very cool. They were doing very much at that time. Specific like, cards that would appeal to the category that we were mailing into. So they had like science, science fiction, where the cards were all pictures of UFO, UFOs and aliens and different celestial type images, and they would have a credit card series where they did it for dogs. So I mean, it’s pretty obvious, like if you may want a credit card with a dog theme to it, that you need list of individuals that own dogs, you know, so my job is to go take that 80,000 different lists universe, and give me those 25 to 50. You know, hard hitting mail order by dog lists and put a curate that together. And there you go, there’s your universe. And so we would do that. And there was probably about 15 20 different categories that we worked in. It, it was it was fun, you know, they would do all kinds of great, different types of cards and do birds and cats and cars, you know, like vintage automobiles. So it was a lot of fun. You know, we went out there and visited with them. And we did a little brainstorming on what markets would potentially be good for them. Right? Like, you don’t want to pick something where you may not have the ability to really find individuals that would you know, that that card would appeal to? So there’s there’s a lot to it. So you needed both right, you need the marketing strategy. In this particular case, it was like looking for a very specific set of psychographics where their personal interests lie versus what’s really available. Because if you can’t get it, did I want to mail it, you know, so that’s, that’s part of it. But just having a lot of experience and working with different mailers, I’ve been able to kind of raise the definition of responsibility of what I do from just recommending the list to hey, let’s take a look at what you’re doing. Let’s see if we can improve on it. Like, why don’t you have a website on your mailpiece? Why don’t you have an 800 number? Why don’t you have any responsibility like right now you’re just branding that makes no sense. Like, if you’re going to spend the money to reach someone, give them a means to respond. So and there’s a lot of testing that’s going on with you know, which ones optimize over another. And a lot of times that depends on what it is. Because if you’ve got the type of offer that let’s just call it a good better best offer, you may do better by putting it into a call center. Because those agents are versed in the upsell and cross sell in trying to drive somebody into a website with a good better best of often they go for the lowest costs, which may not give them the most benefit in terms of value. But just to get that kind of well, I’ll try and see how this goes mentality, as opposed to really hearing the benefit of using the product and staying with it for a while, regardless of what the product is. And subscription services are huge now in all direct response marketing, from food companies to nutritional supplements to dog food companies to home repair. It’s really kind of an exploding, I wouldn’t call it a category but a means for for monetizing the relationship with any customer build in a park as part of your model, a subscription service so that you can take the stay with you and develop more rapport and you really kind of have an opportunity to get graded on lifetime value, which gives you an opportunity to spend a little more money to acquire the customer. Because of that back end lifetime value.

Jeremy Weisz 14:24

The first thing they really is you know you kind of analyze what they’re doing and you know, look at the different demographics psychographics to pair them with the appropriate audience and list and then I’m sure there’s variable things you do after that are sometimes are you do they come with the creative board? Do you help with the creative and then what happens after that?

Dave Klein 14:48

Yeah, so it could it could. It’s both to be honest, sometimes. We don’t do creative really in house we recommend copywriters, designers if need be He as well, usually one goes with the other. But sometimes the copywriters, like specific designers working on their stuff, so they’ll recommend the designer, but we work with printers and call centers. It’s the whole chain, you know, we kind of need to know everybody and because we always get asked who should would use for what should we use for legal? Who should we use for merchant processor? Which CRM system shall we use was good printer with a good price that I could trust? So there’s we all we get asked that pretty much for every project that we get involved in. So we kind of know the landscape to of who’s out there and what they do.

Jeremy Weisz 15:34

Yeah. And so after that, what happens next, so then they’re ready to mail?

Dave Klein 15:41

Yeah, so we get a mail piece from our client, whether they produce it, or we or a copywriter produced it. At that point, we already know enough about it. So we can put together a mail plan based on the budget. So if you’re mailing one list of 5000 names, I’m looking for that one Gen. If you’re mailing 100,000 names, I’m looking for 20 lists with 5000 apiece, you know, to get you the the best overall understanding of what the potential is of what it is you’re doing. So if I mail one source, your potential is that’s one source of mail, 20 sources, and between out of the 20 do well. Now I could say okay, well, we can go from 100,000. Now, up to 275,000. So we’re if I started with that one list, you’d be able to go from 5000 to I don’t know, maybe 10, maybe 20. So, you know, understanding the client’s budget is very important, not only for that one campaign, but kind of like, what are they putting into this? What are they looking to get out. So part of a more robust campaign may not be just lists, it may be creative, too, we might say, Let’s take two or three different swipes at this using different creative going to the same names as the same exact individual name but the same source and see if we can find a creative that works best. And then we marry that to the list that worked best. And then you’ve got something that’s super optimized.

Jeremy Weisz 17:08

Yeah, I could see. So you may take, let’s say, someone’s like, I want to run a 15,000 person tests and you’ll take 5000 from three different lists. And you’ll be able to see oh, wow, this blew it out of the word. This is okay, this didn’t work. And then they can scale up the lists that that actually worked.

Dave Klein 17:25

That’s right. Yeah. Or I could take 15,000 names from one list. And we could use three different creative approaches, because then I could say, Okay, this list is like a lot of other lists that we can get for you. But let’s find a creative approach that works best, do we drive them to a landing page, that kind of spells out the opportunity to put it all in a mail piece of just use an 800 number for them to order. You know, which, which, what’s the strategy we want to try here. And a lot of that has to do with understanding the product, the complexity, the ease of it, typically, the, the easier or less complex the product is to understand those less you need in terms of creative. So DoorDash, for example, which is a piece that I have here. Everyone knows what DoorDash is by this time. And so they can use a very simple mailpiece you know, a $5 off. And on your first time you use that code right there. And you say $5

Jeremy Weisz 18:28

So if you hold that up for a second, so if your watch if you’re listening only Davis holding up a DoorDash piece. And you know, basic? Yeah. Yes, a large busker.

Dave Klein 18:42

Yeah, a little bit of an oversized postcode, probably, I would say it’s probably four by six.

Jeremy Weisz 18:48

And what is the headline the headline they have is restaurants come to you.

Dave Klein 18:52

Restaurants come to your your favorite, your favorite restaurants delivered? Really, the whole thing is the $5 off. Yeah, you know, everyone knows that door dashes is just getting someone to take to take the risk, I guess in trying it. Because a lot of people you know, don’t or maybe they use Uber Eats are another another brand out there. So they want to get on the phone.

Jeremy Weisz 19:17

Yeah. So it kind of on that topic of Where’s direct mail going? How’s it changing? So use DoorDash there’s also an if you want to pull up bombas or freshly one of those are both there’s talk about what’s what they’re doing. It’s,

Dave Klein 19:36

it’s what’s interesting, and I and a whole some pieces is that because of online. The way that we communicate in marketing and advertising this is changing, like our minds developed in its own way, right and its own strategies and methods and how you want the website and things like that to look and it was always competing with direct mail for advertising dollars. So money was moving away from direct mail going into online because online was like the wild frontier, and you could get a new customer for three cents where a direct mail cost Yeah, you know, a buck 80 or $2, or whatever the case may be. So there was definitely revenue moving. And you know, got to experience all of that and look through the whole thing. And seeing, you know, budgets move out, we’re going to put more money into online and, you know, try some other things. But what we’re finding now is that because of the way online is developed, and our overall familiarity with it, especially with Gen X’s, millennials, that they really can get very basic in terms of their direct mail strategy. And you get it like, they just want to put something cool in front of you. So like, I just got this last week, which is kind of COVID Yeti, which is kind of a cutting edge, you know, company selling all kinds of stuff to try to work the coolers. And these are all like, you know, mugs and stuff, but it’s just limited edition designs for Dad and Drive and obviously, for Father’s Day, I suppose, right? Because I just got this, why they would send it to me being a father, I don’t know, I don’t know if I buy myself a cool dad thing. But this is the type of thing ride, I would love to engage with these types of companies and be like, let’s just talk about the strategy. What are you trying to accomplish? And while they should

Jeremy Weisz 21:31

have been directing the list to females, XYZ right ages, so because are you really going to? Or are you really going to order yourself one of these things? Yeah, it

Dave Klein 21:42

could be bad, or it could be just going to a younger could be gone to Cosmopolitan, or, you know, Vogue or glamour, where we know they we know their dads are probably still with them and big part of their life. There’s there’s lots of different strategies you could take. But also, you know, this is made for dad with just dad things on it were for me, I would have preferred to get a little bit more of a substantive mailpiece. So I could see all the cool stuff that Yeti does, because I know yet he’s got some fantastic products. But right here, they’re just showing, you know, the made for Dad stuff, which is great. I mean, it’s great branding. It’s expensive to brand, though, that they’re not a big call out in the in the with the website. And if you’re gonna keep it this simple, I say QR code, just give me a QR code, I can point my phone at because it was this old with only this information for me. You know, I didn’t make the effort to go to and see what they have. But I know this wasn’t the setup. It wasn’t about these, it was about just getting me to the site. And I think there’s easier ways to get it done. And I think they could put a better foot forward. But whatever it is what it is I got that probably four or five days before Father’s Day, timing was off to like, nobody could have ordered anything that actually would have shipped in time. That I don’t believe so. But other things that I’m seeing. So this is Tommy John also postcard big mail now they’re big online, the big and TV. And it’s one of those names. That’s kind of a becoming a household name with men. And it’s just 20% off great call to action with the code. They put it on again in the back. Again, here, no, no QR code.

But they just expect you to go to the website. And oddly enough, though, it’s hard to believe they actually don’t put the website on here. Oh, yes, they do this if So they don’t make it really obvious. But Tommy, John,

Jeremy Weisz 23:51

you have to search for that. Yeah.

Dave Klein 23:54

I guess it seems a little odd to me. If anything, anytime you see a 20% off, and a code, you know where it tells you what the offer is. There’s got to be a call to action there besides just the code and what you get. There should be an 800 number. There should be a URL there should be a QR code. Because now I got to turn it over away from what I was focusing on and figure out what to do next. DraftKings very cool mailpiece that I got. There you know this online gaming is like just insert

Jeremy Weisz 24:27

earning VIP status at DraftKings starting

Dave Klein 24:31

NBA VIP exclusive offers inside, you know, I don’t know how explicit they are. But you can see they can kind of keep it fun. They keep it say it’s it’s light, but I think it kind of is. They give you a few reasons why you should use DraftKings and what you can expect to get, you know 100% deposit bonus up to 10 grand that’s great. They give you a promo code dice. Don’t make a big display of it but promo code Stace, I don’t, you know, get write these things. These things, they’re great, but they could, you know, they

Jeremy Weisz 25:08

what does that mean? Maybe I’m slow. But when they say 100% deposit, are they matching your $10,000? What does that mean?

Dave Klein 25:18

Right? Yeah.

Jeremy Weisz 25:21

Yeah. So I don’t know if that messaging could be

Dave Klein 25:24

that amount of match amount require 15 time play through a different game contribution rates. So they did very small font right there, they kind of have the disclaimer of what what they actually mean when they say that, that does sound pretty, pretty enticing them. Bombus most comfortable sites in the history of feet 20% off your first order, there’s the front of it. There’s the mailable side, Edge aside, and these have, this is what’s called known as a gated mailpiece, which is kind of cool. They’re there, they’re going for a little more real estate here. So they’ve got some lifestyle images, some copy, and then it opens up from there to even more images and copy showing all the different socks that you can get, you know, and then that they donate socks, that’s one of their big things. They for every site, for every pair you purchase, they make a donation to individuals that need socks. So pretty cool stuff.

Jeremy Weisz 26:34

You were mentioning Dave too, before, you know talking about direct mail and athletic greens and superbeets. I know if you want to talk about those.

Dave Klein 26:44

Yeah, so we’re I mean, they nutritional supplement dietary supplement marketplace, has is typically for an older audience is typically a 50 plus audience, it’s where you start really becoming concerned with your, your health problems, and you’re looking for the benefits of a natural alternative to maybe prescriptions or maybe it’s just not bad enough that you really feel like you need to go on a prescription but you want to, you know, get some help with natural alternatives. So people turn to nutritional supplements, with all kinds of there’s so many of them out, there are so many different ingredients. And that’s why if you walk through a Walgreens or CVS, it’s pretty much at least one full aisle if not to, and most of them are gummies these days, right, there’s a lot of supplements and gummies. But the typical type of mailpiece for that audience is it’s kind of really this long form piece like this, that goes into you know, spread by spread by spread by spread by spread. And it’s there about 28 pages of our 24 pages of copy. And then at the end there’s an order form or they try to drive you to an 800 numbers in the case of this particular piece here. And that’s the only

Jeremy Weisz 28:15

one you hold that up again, Dave the cover again, just so I can I can see the so this is science to discover the source of neuropathy discomfort and develop the breakthrough that relieves it in just 15 minutes and then this is multi intuitive

Dave Klein 28:33

15 minutes right so that’s what this product is it’s a it’s a cream it’s got that you can put on for nerve pain, lower leg health and things like that commoner right RX. It’s a very big seller probably be in retail soon. And it’s it’s, it’s the typical format that you would expect to see for direct mail and has been that way for a very long time. Whether it was whether it’s a RP that’s mailing you to get a subscription or sign up for their membership. It’s usually a you know, a number 10 envelope, mailing, that’s going with lift node inside of it an order form all the reasons why you should respond to the mail piece, colonial Pan American Publishers Clearing House all Disabled American Veterans, all these long known long standing, well known direct mail companies that have huge databases that have been doing it forever. Even catalogers. The William Sonoma are sending me a 40 page catalog Victoria’s Secrets, Dick’s Sporting Goods all have used and relied on this long form, direct mail format. That is, it’s very expensive, and it you know, it’s not really new. There’s nothing fresh about it. What’s interesting is, a lot of online companies aren’t, you know, like Amazon started mailing the catalog of hip products. So they went from, you know, being an online merchant to opening stores, to mailing catalogs of best sellers, you know, so it’s a lot of things are coming kind of full circle. And that’s what I say. So what we’re seeing in nutritional supplements, is that there’s this this desire or need to want to give consumers information, but keep it real simple with these kinds of, you know, branding themselves, like a door, Dashwood, I suppose. They don’t have the household name yet. But they’re just trying to create that image and consumers mind find the ideal consumer that they’re really looking for, and then continuing to promote to them. So athletic greens is a green drink that gives you all your vitamins and nutritions, once a day, and you’re good to go. Very similar to Super beets, which is somebody we’re working with. And we’re going to, we told them right when we started, they weren’t crazy about that long form. Because they’re like, We know, customers are typically 6065. Plus, we want to get the benefits to the consumers in their 40s and 50s 30s 40s, and 50s. But that type of long format doesn’t appeal to that type of a consumer. Because they want it they want a quick, they want to see what they’re going to you know what it’s about. They love it when there’s name recognition. And if they’re online a lot, and you’re spending money online. I mean, this is farmer’s dog, then perhaps there is another way, so we’re experimenting with it right now. Hopefully, we’ll

Jeremy Weisz 31:43

we’ll everything’s a test, right?

Dave Klein 31:45

Everything’s a test. I mean, I know from I know, athletic greens, I’ve seen that piece a few times, like somebody says to me, how do you know someone’s working? Well, if you don’t actually work with them yourself, then you know, because of repetition of seeing the piece. So

Jeremy Weisz 32:03

unless they’re not tracking, but hopefully they are tracked

Dave Klein 32:07

a lot of VC money.

Jeremy Weisz 32:10

Let’s talk about so direct mail a bunch of examples. In Space advertising, what are people doing in space advertising? And for people that don’t know what that is?

Dave Klein 32:20

Yeah, so space advertising is simply advertising in newspapers and magazines, that demographic is older as well. I mean, it’s really a 50. Plus, there are magazines. You know, your, your, your, your people, even though people might be a little bit older, but Cosmo and glamour and Vogue, but those don’t really carry direct response. And so we’re talking about direct response today, customer acquisition, so their branding. And then ideally, you’re buying them, you know, they’re trying to create a mindset within a consumer of what their brand is, and how it is, and how it’s a part of their life could be a part of their life. But they’re not driving to to website, they’re not driving online traffic. So I think they probably will soon, because I gotta imagine, most people, even you know, people, one off products at retail, would love the opportunity to just sell it directly to consumers. I don’t know why they wouldn’t. So I would imagine at some point, pretty much every ad you see, even if it’s a branding, it will have a QR code at least. Which will bring you right to the page where you can transact. I just don’t know why marketers wouldn’t do that. You know, what

Jeremy Weisz 33:31

does it give you in a coin? What are they doing? Yes,

Dave Klein 33:33

uni coin, what’s very cool. It’s actually a new coin that’s not in circulation yet, but they’re bringing it to market. And that’s from the unicorn hunters, which is, you can see him on YouTube. Steve Wozniak, there’s a bunch of really like high profile individuals, entrepreneurs and moguls that kind of created this unit, Munich unicorn Hunter, which is a show kind of like Shark Tank, but a little bit more busy. businessy lay, it’s a little bit more professional in some ways, and less promotional because they’re really trying to get into the person’s business. And I think they spent a little bit more time with it. They created this coin of conceptual coin called unit coin. And the idea behind unit coin is to have it back at an asset backed coin. So it’s got a it’s a coin that pays dividends. It’s a coin that’s invested in companies, real companies. So that as those companies grow the value of the coin appreciates, very cool concept. So we did some space advertising for them as major newspapers. You know, that’s where you might get into a younger demographic and more of that mindset. publications like Business Week. We ran it a bunch of times. So we You know, typically we were running in newspapers, probably three times a week, Washington Post, you know, the New York Post, San Francisco Chronicles, all kinds of different papers, Miami Herald all different kinds of papers from around the country. And we were running, like quarter page ads. Very cool. And just really show the coin and website. They weren’t offering an opportunity to buy the coin, it was just giving prospectus in your hand, making sure you were doing an accredited investor. And we were doing we were running quite a bit of media for them until the the cataclysmic fall off Bitcoin prices, but hopefully that that comes back around.

Jeremy Weisz 35:47

What were they hoping to accomplish with that just getting people aware to invest in the coin? Yeah, yeah,

Dave Klein 35:53

I’m sure they took investments in it as well. But you’ve got to they’ve got to get the the overall investment in it, say I think actually watch it. So I don’t have the details on the prospectus, and how it all works. But yeah, it was basically to generate interest, get a viable audience of people that were interested in making the investment, and then get themselves to a point to actually go to launch the coop

Jeremy Weisz 36:19

the chickens that show, if you’re looking at up, and they have all the information and they got a

Dave Klein 36:26

lot of they got a lot of YouTube interest. That’s where they feature other shows.

Jeremy Weisz 36:31

So there’s opportunities in newspapers and magazines. And we’re often surprised

Dave Klein 36:36

that we work with AAG in newspapers and magazines, which is a reverse mortgage company. And they’ve done quite well. But I’ve seen, you know, there’s, there’s, you know, people like Fisher Investments, which is a big money manager takes half a million, they run all the time newspapers, lots of you know, the walk in tubs, it’s, again, it’s an older audience, you’re not going to, you know, 40 to 50, you’re gonna 50 plus.

Jeremy Weisz 37:04

And then there’s alternative media package inserts. Your Riva RX,

Dave Klein 37:09

yeah, that’s another client of ours, package inserts, gives you an opportunity, they’ve been around forever, to go into the outgoing packages accompanies as a third party advertiser to get your marketing materials delivered. And the concept is really, I’m going to go to a consumer and send them this box in this box is going to cost me $20. If I could take $2 off the cost of the box by throwing in other advertisers. Why not? I mean, it just makes it a much more profitable business to be in. So package inserts really, are you taking your marketing message and sending it out in other people’s boxes, and you get to choose which companies like a mailing list, I get to choose which companies boxes I want to go. And so what’s cool about

Jeremy Weisz 38:03

that Dave is like, that’s a buyer, right? So they’re getting in front of a buyer who’s already purchased something, it’s not someone who’s, you know, kind of kicking a tire, they’ve already purchased something.

Dave Klein 38:15

Yeah, that’s exactly what it is. But you’re also getting not just getting a buyer from someone that’s purchased something you’re getting to reach them, when they had the best mindset possible, which is cool, my buy stuff finally came, and they open it up, and they’re going to look at everything in the box. It’s just, you know, natural, just to make sure that so this was this is like what our packages are, again, very simple. It’s one sheet folded down. And if needed to be folded again to go inside whatever envelope it is, you’ll see a strong offer of up to two free bottles call this 800 number, it’s all over the P so you can’t miss it. And that’s the way to do it testimonials on the back guarantee to work or it’s free. So you got a strong guarantee on it. Backed by clinical studies, clinical testing, research, yada yada.

Jeremy Weisz 39:11

So this is for those for bladder type of summer.

Dave Klein 39:15

Yes. For bladder control, right. Absolutely. So it’s a nutritional supplement for bladder control. Yeah.

Jeremy Weisz 39:22

So what would what would they insert it with? Like a box? It depends.

Dave Klein 39:27

I mean, that would probably be competitive and I need to do phenomenally well right if I could get the penance to take those there is not a box there you know, their actual wrapping

Jeremy Weisz 39:39

may ruin their the rebuys if people buy that then it works.

Dave Klein 39:45

Yeah, so there we were going into things like Doctor letters and kill right kind of like a mirror Mark catalogers with an older demographic for sure. You know, 40 Plus, we tried a bunch of different things, almost everything we did work, which is great. But that it’s a, it’s a really good media, it’s fairly inexpensive, because you’re not, you don’t have heavy print costs, you have no postage. You just have a small insert fee, and the printing of those, but we’ve actually gone and reached out to the market where we have an advertiser that’s very unique. And they want to go into boxes that are unique, and we approach them on a one off basis. Where it’s not, it’s not, they may not take any inserts at all. So we, we think of it in a different way, it’s more of a partnership, or like, hey, we really want to be in your box, you’re gonna have 10,000 people, like we just structured one of these for a client, that has to happen, yes, I don’t want to name what they are. But we’re like, we’ll pay $1,500 to go to those 10,000 people, which is a lot. But for them for the client that wanted to go into that box, for the branding opportunity to reach that audience. It’s worth it to them. So there’s it doesn’t have to always monetize at first it can be just, you got a core group of individuals, you know who you want to reach packages. So it’s good to have means to do that. And I like the email box, like I said, and like you said, you got a consumer who’s opening that box, they’re digging in with both hands, and they’re gonna see that package, they’re gonna open it up. And hopefully it’s of like minded, non competitive, like minded opportunities to try something new.

Jeremy Weisz 41:34

They have ever questioned. So like, there’s a lot of betas see, from a b2b standpoint, let’s say someone wanted to target, you know, a 40 to 50 year old person. That is, I don’t know if you can target a position at a company like C suite or CEO over a certain salary range, or revenue. How would you? How would you think about that?

Dave Klein 41:59

Yeah, so the b2b markets entirely different than consumer, but in many ways is to say, so b2b is primarily composed. There’s a lot of government records on companies, the size of the company, employee size, sales, volume, dun, and Bradstreet is out there with credit information, and also all that good information on company size and sales. Every company has a designated si si code tells you what industry they work they work in. So the list business is very good at identifying companies. It’s also good at identifying individuals where those individuals do something like the consumer side, but in the b2b world, they’re joining associations that have a membership to a particular group of professionals. They read, pave, and they read controlled circulation magazines that are industry or trade publications. That, and usually with those controlled circulation or pay publications, they know a lot about that individual, because usually that individual has to qualify. So they gotta write what they’re, they gotta check the box of their title, the size company, the industry, the employee size, so those are still out there in abundance. But a lot of that a lot of that kind of marketing, too, has moved downline, but with a much better quality of media than what we see in the consumer side, which is email. So in a b2b environment, emails very good, especially if you know the source that you’re working with. Because typically individuals, when they get an email from their membership, company or association that they belong to, they’re going to look at it because it’s coming from somebody that they trust. It’s a group that they’re part of. And those emails typically carry third party advertisements, either as banners or embedded URLs, or even just third party straight email, and they just endorsed the company that’s sending it out.

Jeremy Weisz 44:06

So can you generate lists for then people to email? Or will you partner with those companies go, Hey, you’ll send that you’ll send the email copy, and they’ll have to send out on their on their behalf?

Dave Klein 44:18

Yeah, that’s typically the way it’s done for to be kind of can spam compliant. The email needs to originate from the owner of the data. So what typically happens though, which is the way you want it anyway, like for you to take an email list and send it coming from the server, that none of nobody’s email, recognize that it’s just going to go into spam folders. So you really do want to send your advertisement to the company, to have them, deploy it through their servers, your message with their, their banner at the top for recognition. And again, it’s a it’s an implied endorsement. So that’s the way that is done.

Jeremy Weisz 44:58

Dave, first of all, I have one last question. But before I ask it, I want to point people to check out To learn more about what you do and to check it out. If you have questions specifically for Dave, they have a contact us, you can go there or call their number. And so they thanks for sharing the stories and walking us through some real specific examples I want to just end with you had a health scare. And what happened because I think it’s pretty inspirational. And we were talking before we hit record is, if someone didn’t have the right mindset, it would be this would be severely debilitating for someone.

Dave Klein 45:47

Yeah, I believe that to be the case. But what after this depressive. I went into the hospital in November of 2018, with the flu. And by the grace of God, I ended up staying over but I got what’s called sepsis. And I got a very bad form of sepsis as well as in the hospital called DIC. And DIC has got a very low success rate or survival rate, it’s only about 8%. And those people that do survive, typically have very bad health problems afterwards. It can be kidney, bladder, it can be all kinds of different organ failures, which I actually was going through. But luckily, I came through without any issues as it pertains to the organs, my organs, but I did go through and receive amputation. So I had fingers amputated, I think my main trigger my thoughts I kind of have, but the other ones are all we’re all I lost the first the first part of them. And then I’m a double amputee. I mean, you know, I had to learn to walk again, and we’ll put them both up there. But yeah, real, real deal. They’re below neath, luckily, there’s a lucky thing to have with an amputation on your leg. Below me because above knee is, from what I hear that much more difficult, but and, you know, I just did with anything for me, I’m a silver lining kind of guy, it’s one day at a time. Get up here despite the day and try to improve with whatever it is you’re doing. So it’s, you know, it’s really strive and thrive. mindset. And, you know, I try to do everything that I used to do. I haven’t I haven’t challenged myself with skiing yet. I honestly, I’m kind of glad that I never have to do that. Wasn’t one of my favorite activities. I enjoyed it for many different reasons, but I can let that one go

Jeremy Weisz 47:54

mentally. Dave, what were you thinking that helped you get like you said, like, it’s an 8% survival. And then even after there’s long term repercussions, how did you process that?

Dave Klein 48:10

I think he’s, I think he’s start with, I’m happy, I’m alive. I you know, I have daughters. I love life. I love their lives, and I love being in their lives. And I think that’s, you know, it’s just a starting point for getting yourself in the mind the right mindset to tackle this kind of obstacle, a hurdle in life. And I just never, you know, I just was it was pretty much for me, what do I need to do next? What do I need to do next. And I was in the hospital for 60 days before I moved to rehab. And I went to rehab without prosthetics that were being made for me at the time. I spent 90 days in total between the hospital and rehab, 30 days in rehab before I left. But I remember on February 11 of 2019 My prosthetics were coming. And now I’m probably at this point 75 days, without standing 75 days in bed, either no legs, or knowing that I wouldn’t be able to stand again because the my appendages my feet had deteriorated so badly that I wasn’t going to walk again. And I was like a kid getting a bicycle at Christmas. I did not feel like a kid getting a bicycle at Christmas when I tried to stand in them. But the excitement of knowing they were coming in that day was pretty cool. I was actually really jazzed about it, because I was like, it may suck but at least I’m gonna get to stand and walk and I’ll figure it out. And it did it was it was it’s very painful. I mean to this day, it’s it’s not I can’t it’s like if I had to describe it the first time stay Ending with something like this would be like being I would I would eventually be what I am a 5553 year old male standing up in high heeled shoes. With a shoe size that’s two times too small. Like it’s just like walking standing no part of it didn’t want anything to do with it. I’m like, this is horrible. And then you just go from there. And the next thing you know now for me, other than bad days here and there if I if I hurt myself a little bit, or I overdo it, it’s kind of like walking around and ski boots that go up to your knees. I don’t know how, you know, that’s probably the best. Easiest you know, there you feel it all the time. It’s a lot of pressure. But yeah, it’s a it’s a pressure you’re used to. So I try not to let it bother me I just in terms of my psyche, and just do the right next best thing for myself.

Jeremy Weisz 50:51

Dave Thank God you survived. And thank you for sharing your journey and your expertise. Everyone should go to an learn more check out more episodes on Inspiredinsider and and Dave, thanks so much.

Dave Klein 51:09

My pleasure. Jeremy could be in with you.