Search Interviews:

Carline Anglade-Cole 4:11

I thought you know, I want to write books. But at this but I am a direct response marketer at heart. So what kind of book Am I gonna write what kind of cover I’m gonna write a book cover have a book cover that was like a headline and a cover that I would do in a promotion. So I for this particular book, I asked one of my favorite graphic designers, Rob Davis, to design this for me. And you know, he we use the same font that I would use in direct mail promotion. So it was Rob. You know, I gave him the copy and I said, Rob, I need something great here and Rob came up with the idea and he had me say okay, currently I need to take a bunch of pictures of you doing this. I’m like, why don’t you just do that? It’s all you can tell me. That’s okay. And so I did those photos and then rob sent me the ver the draft of it and I I’m like, oh my goodness, that is it. That is the cover. And so that was the brilliance of Rob Davis for that one. And then for this one same thing that I use another awesome graphic designer, Rick Fein, and Rick came up with this cover for me. And it is the same thing that we use, we use the basic copywriting strategies and techniques that made us successful with writing kick, butt, you know, controls for decades, and said, Let’s do Hey, it’s what I know, let’s do what I know. And this medium of books, and I think it turned out really well.

Jeremy Weisz 5:34

Tell me this, um, what separates someone like Rob? In and Rick, from just okay, someone’s like, Well, I’m just gonna, you know, find good graphics for my book. And I’m curious, because I’m wondering why more authors don’t hire someone who’s really in tuned with direct response, what separates down from just putting together

Carline Anglade-Cole 6:04

those two that Rob Rick, and the designers that I work with, first of all, understand marketing, it’s not they I don’t, I never want to work with a designer just for the sake of design. Because, I mean, if I let if I told Rob to design something beautiful for me, he would go to town, it would be something amazing, right? But he knows we are, we have a goal here, we’re trying to take the copy and make the copy, you know, Rise25 We’re trying to get the copy to really shine. And so a great graphic designer, is not necessarily a brilliant designer, a great graphic designer knows how to enhance the copy to get to make the sale, you know, that’s the goal is to make the sale. So a lot of times ugly copy will work. You know, not fancy designs will work other times, you know, strategically designed promotions are going to work so that the thing that makes them different is they understand the marketing, they understand the point is not to be beautiful, but to be functional, and to be able to deliver the results. So the headline, like my life as a 50 plus year old white male, you know, and who wrote the book, not a 50 plus year old white male, you know, he puts the two together and this idea and you’re like bam, and a one a one award for best cover two, by the way, one design art won the two awards I want was because of the cover design. So that’s Rob Davis award. Um, so that is the difference between a regular design hiring a designer and hiring a direct response graphic designer who understands the business understands the role of design with copy copy is always king, but design is his queen.

Jeremy Weisz 7:51

How did you come up with that title? Because it is very, you know, when I heard it for the first time, he came out with it, it’s very curiosity and like, I had a lot of curiosity around it. How’d you come up with it?

Carline Anglade-Cole 8:07

With the time on my life? Right? Yes. Well, let me tell you, I, I happened that the whole book ideas, and the whole thing has happened is crazy over Brian Kurtz was having a seminar, he invited me to speak at the seminar. And so as I’m talking about the things I’ve done, what I worked on, I kind of just, I just said it out loud and put it out there, you know, that, you know, whatever wrote a book, or you know, the title, it will be My Life as a 50+ Year-Old White Male, you know, because that is that has been my market from day one of my career that has been when we when I was a marketing manager, we would have to, you know, read the list, we will always segments, the 50 plus year old white males, those were our target market. And so from day one of writing copy, you know, my late 20s I am, you know, I wasn’t writing copy that I was understanding the business at that time, it was a matter of no, we this is who our market is we are talking to 50 plus year old white males. So as I started to learn copy, and I’m writing to this market, I am so comfortable with these, they’re my people. The 50 plus year old white male market, that’s me, that’s my mark, I talk to them, I understand them. And because of that it has made me very successful in my in my field, but it just cracks me up. Because, you know, that’s that’s where I live and breathe, you know, when I go to work every single day and so it was a no brainer that that will be the title. And then we added the subtitle how a mixed race woman stumbled into direct response copywriting and succeeded just to add even more entry going okay, what is going on here, you know, with this picture and this and this title, and but it actually it’s just my life. You know, the 50 plus year old white male has played such a tremendous role in my life. Even in my birth. My dad was 50 plus year old white male When I was born, so I mean, just like what it was, I was writing the book, I was like, Wow, man, there’s a lot of similarities going on here, you know. And so that’s that was kind of this was a book where for the for one word was written, I already knew what the title of it was doing was.

Jeremy Weisz 10:19

Yeah, totally, it was popular last time is, I remember you’d pull you out, you’re very well organized, you have all of the different controls and packages, you wrote in binders. And we were even talking, if anyone touches those, they get slapped. I mean, no one’s allowed to touch them except for you. And you pulled them off the shelf. And we went through some. And, you know, in the book, you know, your copy sucks, you don’t, there’s what struck me and I loved one of the lessons, which is you went around, is about mentors kind of in relationships and how you went around. And you, you know, thank you relationships, and you spent a day and you went in person, and you had lunch with people, and you just thank them. And so I wanted to do a couple things, a package that you were mentored. And then on the other end of things, pull a package off your shelf of someone that you mentored. And I didn’t want you to tell me what you pulled off, but you pulled something off. So let’s do the first one, which is promotion that you are mentored.

Carline Anglade-Cole 11:23

So you asked me you know, if you right now, if you look at my office, you see the back of my office, right? This is this is my back all the bookshelves, well imagine the exact same thing of front. But instead of books or whatever, it’s my binders. Okay, so I when I look I looking at my binders, all in front of me. And so I said that when I started off, and copywriting I thought, Man, if I could just have a three inch binder. And if I could just fill that binder with promotions that I write, not necessarily when I’m successful, but just promotions that I write, I can fill this three inch binder up with those promotions, I will be successful. So that is what I determined will be my level of success if I could fill one three inch binder up with promotions, you know, copy that I’ve written. And so that was my goal. I started off I had my first binder. Well, you know, moving forward now I said I am now officially I had to move from three inch binders to five inch binders. And I am now on binder number 40. Okay, so and I so everything I write, I get at least one sample of it. And I put it in a sleeve. I put the date on it, who the designer was what the name of the promotion of the client is, and that became an archive. So you asked me to do that I’m going well, I’m not going to jump up and grab these binders when you asked me so I went ahead and pulled them to pull them down in advance. Now you don’t know what they are. But I went and I find that my first time like I said was a three inch but I did have to upgrade it to a five inch binder. So oh, this is book one class samples. Back is Carline Anglade-Cole that’s me. Class samples, book one. And the date. It says this, this was I haven’t from it should have been actually September 1999. To then this. So it took me from September 99 to

April of 2000. To fill this first binder. Okay, you see that one? Now it takes about three months to fill my binders. But that took me all the big chunk of time to take me to fill this one. So you asked me to find what I found the very first promotion that

Jeremy Weisz 13:43

by the way, there’s there’s coveted top direct response marketers that want to get all of these from you. So this will give them a taste.

Carline Anglade-Cole 13:52

I had one I’d say one person said to me just they’ll just name my price. And you’ll buy everything you know, I have not done that yet. So this promotion this one, all my get emotional about this. And this this. This was a promotion where I would try to break into I had started my own business but I wasn’t writing copy. I was able to write I was doing more marketing. People were hiring me to do mail plans for them because I had a background doing all that. So they were hiring me to do marketing stuff. But I really wanted to write copy. And I didn’t you know no one was hiring me to write copy. And then one day I got a call from a guy named Dave Nelson. He was a list broker that I had worked with it was Walter Carl. And he called and he says Carline, I had this client who has a promotion. And he you know, he has a male potency product. And he’s doing pretty well with it. And he just realized that a huge chunk of his market is African American, African American males. So he had this brilliant idea that if he could find a black copywriter, black male copywriter, then maybe that writer would be have much more have a connection with the market and could write better copy and give them stronger controls. Well, they was like, I can’t find any black male copywriter. So I said, Well, I got a mixed race woman, can you? Maybe she can do it. And so that’s when they’ve called me because you think you can do this? I’m like, oh, yeah, absolutely. I could do this. Absolutely. He absolutely needs that a black copywriter in this thing, right? So as a race card, I’m feeling so guilty. I’m so I’m doing this, right. I’m like, yes. So I meet with the guy. And I talk myself Oh, yeah, absolutely. You need to have someone who understands the market. And this, you know, I’m talking all this junk. And he buys it. And he says, Okay, fine. You can write, you know, he hires me to write a full promotion, right? And so I’m going, Oh, my goodness, I told my husband about it. And I said, Hey, I’m gonna, I may have a shot of writing for our male potency product. You know, can you help me with you know, give me some ideas. You know, I’m thinking, well, you’re male, you’re black male, so you can help me out with this, right? Oh, yeah, honey, no problem. No problem. Sure, sure. You know, and so I go and I get the job and I go, okay, hey, I got the job. I need you to help me with some things about what men what problems men have with this. He’s like, I don’t have that problem. I can’t help you. He pretty much throws me under the bus. Like I can’t help you get out of here, right. And he’s gone. So now I start to write the promotion. Now I am competing against a white male copywriter. Alright, so keep that in mind. So I go and I write a promotion to try to to, to feel like I’m gonna I’m going to appeal to this market. And so I write the promotion. I thought, you know, I’m going to ask Clayton because Clayton Makepeace. As it was my mentor, I learned copywriting from him. He encouraged me to go off on my own. I’m going to ask Clayton if he will please critique the copy for me. You know, too, because I don’t I’m scared. This is my first chance to do something huge that I want to do and I don’t know I’m scared, right? So I give Clayton I said can you please say Sure, no problem. So he takes the copy and then he gives it back to me and he doesn’t All he says is a few things man. And I remember him he’s like, you write like an effing girl. All right, that was the biggest critique I’ve gotten the effing was being me being nice about what he actually said Right? And so he’s like, right as a girl, he goes going go go burp go fart go adjust your package, you know and come back and write this thing you know, the package was not the package you want me to adjust that you know? And so I said you know, I called him back I’m like you said I write like a girl I am a girl. And now he’s like, Yeah, but you’re not writing to a girl you’re writing to a male market and you it’s all girl stuff in here you’re talking he’s like you’re not you’re not you know connecting with your market and you know and so I mean, he really like Lay it on me man. I’m like it was it was harsh. And he’s just like, What are you doing you know, you’re writing the guys and you’re seeing all these little shoots you know, fufu kind of stuff that that kind of don’t connect with this thing sucks, you know? And so I’m like, a bribe, you know? And so then he goes go back and do what you’re supposed to do you know who you’re talking to and go back so he gave me some critiques and I went back

Jeremy Weisz 18:15

do you show the outside of the envelope people are watching the video so

Carline Anglade-Cole 18:20

it’s a straight in a simple brown craft envelopes six by nine envelopes on the outside it has the corner card of the doctor’s name has a stamp that says extremely personal and confidential and then it says sensitive material of a sexual nature and clothes

Jeremy Weisz 18:35

I geek out on the outside so yeah, that I love the outside in itself already.

Carline Anglade-Cole 18:41

Yeah back that you opening it for men only private and confidential material inputs. Love it. This was a promotion. This is a brown craft that we did for this one. And so from there I have a letter I have an eight page letter and then pretty much the flyer with an order with them with the envelope to

Jeremy Weisz 19:05

critique the outside at all did you have the envelope what you have on there and not really a

Carline Anglade-Cole 19:11

claim for ticket Yeah, we didn’t work on that yet. He said he’s not gonna look at my envelopes because my letter was so bad give a letter right first, right that was not like okay, so I go back and I’m gonna just read the firt the lead to this right so it starts off this is this The following is a true story you

Jeremy Weisz 19:32

hold up the pit hold it up just like it’s Yeah, so you can see there’s a headline then there’s a graphic.

Carline Anglade-Cole 19:38

So it says the following is a true story. It contains sensitive material of a sexual nature than a pre head says. Take it from me. This all natural Viagra No, this is 1999 This is all Viagra is huge rise is starting to make the you know it’s big on the on the model of putting in the mind the potency market. This all natural Viagra can save your sex life. And then it says nature’s remarkable secret for sizzling sexual performance after age 40 is cheaper and safer, cheaper, and actually works better than costly sex drugs. So this is all part of my headline section, you know, setting up my argument and then it says, And this is a Clayton really, he helped me with this, I will give he really like made me keep going back to fix this thickness. So I got it so tight that he liked it. But it says dear friend, they say us guys are always in one of two modes, one having sex or two thinking about having said, Me, I plead guilty on both counts. Then I go into it, the mere thought of an exciting woman always made me hard the cup, the curve of her hips, and the Presto me wild, you know, the thoughts of, you know, driving her crazy was like, but I love it, you know, so he just said, get into the mind of the male, you know, and what is scary place, right? Currently, I was I thought I would never leave. I’m like that was I was trapped. So this became this one, it’s after I got the letter, right? Once the letter made sense, then the other piece of supporting pieces fit in it made sense to keep it simple on the ground craft carrier, you know, and just very little less was more in this case. And then till the letter is just saying, hey, remember those days when you could just wow your woman, it can happen again. You know, and that was the message that just kept going over, over over and over. And that was Clayton, mentoring me to say, you know, I don’t care who you are. I don’t care where you’re from. I don’t care anything about you. Except you need to know how to write copy to this person. You’re talking to you right now who is your market. And that was such a powerful lesson that I learned very early in my career. And that’s why I tell my I tell people today, copywriting is blind. Nobody gives a squat. Who you are as the copywriter. Nobody cares if you have a college degree. Or if you didn’t, you barely got out of high school. If you’re black, white, orange, or purple, where you grew up, you know, nobody, nobody cares, what you you’ll be successful if you can connect with your market and deliver the goods. And so that was a lesson so that I mean of all things to get started with. I’m like, wow. And so we tested the promotion, and it beat the pants off the control is beat the pants. So I’m like, what I beat I beat the guy you know, I’m so poor. My point again, this was a white guy who wrote was right in the control. He should know his market pretty well. I’m not you know, but yet my this thing ended up being controlled for two years. And it been from from this from this version of brown craft, we converted it to a mag alog does mag allows, you know, Kiki instead of five, I could find it. Oh, here it is. Oh, no, no, I’m sorry. No. There it is. So we changed it to after you know, after I started to mail that then in 2000 we converted into a a mag along like like this. So take a sticky notes for that. But the copies of same all the copies inside. We just kind of wiped it down. Well, yep, there it is. They say the same sex life as I had here. So that was the that was it was that was were probably one of the most powerful experiences I had to be mentored. And, you know, the fact that Clayton took the time, I mean, he wasn’t I wasn’t you know, he was I wasn’t paying him for this he was doing this out of his kindness and generosity that to help me get my you know, my foot in the door. And by doing that, it gave me confidence. And again, I had such I’m so glad he might mentored me on something like that which is so outside of my comfort zone, that anything else I can write about heart and I can write about you know, blood pressure and cholesterol that’s got nothing to do with something male potency. It’s like if you can write this and get a winner here you can write anything you know, and I was like and again I was doing mail with class and style and getting nasty you know I was that was like no, I’m not going to do that. I’m going to talk it this way and it worked. And it worked great. So

Jeremy Weisz 24:24

did you have suggestions on you know go back and connect if suggestions on connecting and are getting in the mind of you know what what my mind goes to is that Mel Gibson what a woman want movie out of you saw where he gets in the bathroom, he starts putting on all the make what did he have any suggestions or did anything help you get into the mind of that person or connect with?

Carline Anglade-Cole 24:49

He told me that though burp out loud fart out loud. Adjust my package, you know, scratch myself He said, Remember when he’s actually he’s the one that said those things. He’s like, Guys, the mind of a male is on focus on two things, you know, and he kept saying over again, that’s why I end up repeating what he said is my lead, you know, it’s like, you know, having sex, you know, having sex or having more sex. And he goes, he pleads guilty to both. So thinking about sex, having sex. So, whatever I’m like, okay, that’s who I’m talking to. This is where I’m not, you know, okay. Well, how do I talk with them now, in a way that they can connect with me understand, oh, yeah, this guy knows what you’re talking about. So I don’t

Jeremy Weisz 25:37

I mean, you’ve gotten the inside the mind. Right. And you have daughters, as do I. So does that disturb you? And how did you coach them when they started dating? Because you’ve been writing these packages. And I say, like, not even joking. That when you say that, you’re like, This is on the mind of males. How did you prepare your daughters for when they were being courted? You know,

Carline Anglade-Cole 26:07

that a pretty good job because two of my daughters are copywriters. Right?

Jeremy Weisz 26:15

So he, like do you have read your package and warn your daughters about data?

Carline Anglade-Cole 26:21

Proof the copy, I asked any questions you want, I will answer anything, you know, and it’s just the same, the same things understand, you know, teaching them like, Look, man, think this way women think this way men are from Mars, and Venus, whatever, whatever the planet is. Um, so, you know, it’s very, it gives me very interesting conversations.

Jeremy Weisz 26:42

Yeah, yeah. So, anything else on that I want to go to the mentee, because you’ve, you know, mentored people,

Carline Anglade-Cole 26:52

lessons learned, lessons learned when you are being mentored. And my case, I’m one of the fatal mistakes I make could have been a fatal mistake. Um, you have somebody who has a lot of experience and who wants to the willing to teach you something. Okay. He told me I write like a girl. Alright, when I say I am a girl, I came back at him with some lame answer, lame comment, you know, and I said, that could have been a fatal mistake, because he could have said, You’re right, nevermind, and walk away. Right, you can set whatever. So the big mistake you make when you’re being mentored is your need to defend yourself. You know, and so when I talk, when I talk to my copy, my copy comes down. And if I’m giving, I’m giving them credit, the first thing I say is, shut your piehole. And listen, just be quiet. Okay? Do not defend anything. Just be quiet. And listen to what is being bestowed upon you the knowledge that is getting dropped on you right now, shut your face. Just listen, whether you agree with it or not, it doesn’t matter. This person is willing to give you extreme insight to help make you a better person. You only have so much time with this person. Do you really want to waste it defending yourself? Well, I was thinking that I did it this way, because I wanted that. Nobody cares. Nobody cares. So one thing I remember Clayton saying to me, and I and I and I repeat this all the time. And I said, Well, I did it this way. Because what I was trying to do was x, he goes, Well, unless you’re able to go to every single prospect and personally explain what you are trying to do, then I suggest you change the copy. The same thing now, unless you’re going to go to everybody’s house, who’s going to receive this message and say, Hey, what I meant to say here was this in case you don’t understand it, unless you can do that, I suggest you go change that copy. You know, it makes it easier. So that was another powerful lesson. You know, mentoring, no one, mentoring is hard. It’s very hard. It’s time consuming. It’s energy consuming. And so somebody’s willing to do that, to give that to you. You show appreciation by being quiet and listen to what they say. And then later on, you can go because I can argue with playing later and decide why I decided not to do this way. I decided to go this route. That’s fine. You develop as a writer and you can make your own decisions accordingly. But and this and that time process where you’re getting the critique, quiet, it’s taking like, Just be quiet.

Jeremy Weisz 29:37

In addition to you know, I know Clayton really was a big mentor of yours. Did you have others in the direct response space?

Carline Anglade-Cole 29:46

No, not to the level where I made claims I had the rare privilege of meeting Clayton make these when I was a marketing manager being becoming you know, then I got to read I got to see his copy. Yeah, I got two copies, you know, like, we’re passing around, click Make these copy. And people say, What do you think about this? And I was like, you know, I understand this part, you know, so I got to give feedback to Clinton on his copy, you know, I’m a marketing manager, you know, and so that and then from there, because he worked at Phillips, he was our number one, um, you know, copywriters, so and I was, I was working on one of the best products in the health market at the time. So he was our number one copywriter. So I got to look at them very closely. And I got to see what he was doing at the watch what he was doing, then we got to become friends, you know, because he was, you know, hey, how you doing, I could chitchat with him or whatever. And then it’s like I said, Well, I’m trying to write something now. He said, Oh, anytime you need some help, let me know. So it kind of developed like that. And then it got to a point where I was ready to become a writer. And he was the one that said, hey, when you whenever you’re ready to do this, you know, you make that jump, you let me know, you know, just give me a call after you make the jump, give me a call. And I called him. So then he then was able he hired me. And now he was training me. I was I was like a ghostwriter. For him, I would write the first draft of the copy, you know, get all of the research pulled together for him and give it to him. I did that for many years. And so and then from there, it got to a point where became more like partners where we were split, we work on a project together, and we would just split everything down the middle. And then it got to a point where I said, You know what, I’m going off on my own. So and I really have never had anyone else to that level of mentoring. Now. I’ve had some amazing people who have served as mentors at different stages in my life where there’s a fellow copywriters that I know, I know, and I work with, and I trust are designers. So I’ve had those types of people in my life, but no one comes close to the level of mentoring that make these. I feel like when I read it, well, I wrote a copy one time and he said, I read this, and I thought I wrote it. And I’m like, That is the best compliment you could ever give me, you know. And so I took that and then from there, I develop my style, my little crazy style, that he says he called his WordPress called a crazy, crazy writing, but it is good. I like I like it. So I took what Clayton taught me and then I kind of made it my own. And that was years of developing, you know, to that point. So

Jeremy Weisz 32:20

I have something similar now. And people can check out any information at it But use something similar, but as a as a program,

Carline Anglade-Cole 32:35

right? Oh, yeah, I have last year I launched my crazy copy system live mentoring show. Now this was an opportunity to work with my daughter number two, who is a copywriter and graphic designer. And the whole thing was, you know what, there are a lot of mentors out there, but I want to do something different. So imagine Oprah, as a copywriter, you know, having a show. And now teaching the copywriting live on the show. So it’s like you get to control, you get control, you get to control right, you know, that’s the Oprah approach. So, um, so I have this show that I do is once a week on Thursdays from one to three Eastern time. And I get my tribe, my crazy tribe they join is a monthly membership. And so you join and now I, you you’re with me, you know, you here’s what I’m working on this month, you know, let me show you with a copy with a client said to me about the copy. And then they get to actually create cover test. And I get to help them create strong cover tests. And then we test them with my clients to beat my control. And when they beat my control, I pay them, you know, $500 $1,000 $1,500.25 jobs, it just depends on the project. So it’s like, this is a situation where you can come with not knowing how to do anything, my copywriting, I’ll teach you my crazy way. I’ll help you create covers has become samples for your portfolio. And I get it tested by my real clients. Real money’s involved here. You get to see the numbers, the results come in. And then if you’re a winner, bam, you win. Not only money, but you get this cool t shirt that says I’m on a roll. I beat Carline’s control. Nobody is back there. So yeah, you can’t buy this anywhere. You have to earn it right. You have to earn I’m telling my students would love to do anything for a T shirt. They will forsake the winning prize the t shirt.

Jeremy Weisz 34:29

So you had a recently a mentee have a winner. You want to

Carline Anglade-Cole 34:35

Yes, I’m actually last week show was so awesome. Because what we do, like I said, they go through the whole process. They write the copy, they see the copy turn into design, they see the design, you know, get tested, they’ve been existing results. And so last week’s show we had a results show and I had one one of my students silliness her name. She’s in Switzerland and she came up with You know, we worked on their cover, and I have I have that binder for her too. So we came up with the idea. And so we tested her covers along with all the other covers in the class we had we had a thing a total of Oh, was it a total? I think six we’re testing I’m not sure numbers. But anyway of this test six were tested. And so of the six hers beat my control. She was the only one Harris didn’t know the others came close. But hers beat was see want to see hers. Let me show you sleep. See. This is this is for a colon product

Jeremy Weisz 35:43

so if you’re watching the video, there’s a almost a big poop emoji with a smiley face holding toilet paper and it says poop there it is.

Carline Anglade-Cole 35:54

Poop. There it is.

Jeremy Weisz 35:57

Do you say it better?

Carline Anglade-Cole 35:59

Yes. Now the point about that. That I mean, let me listen to the words. Can you count as I’m saying? Okay, poop. There it is. Clockwork easy. flushable safely eliminate sucks too fast. How many words is that? 12 words? 12 words? Yeah, $1,500 In 12 words on here, because the rest is just we have scientific proof that is just artwork here guaranteed to work for you or you pay nothing with the standard or all the promotions. So this 12 words on you know, beat that can be all of the other ones and became a control. So she was ecstatic because she needed writing samples. And now she can use this as her writing sample. She needs a story. Hey, Abby, Carline Anglade-Cole’s control, that’s a pretty nice story to tell. You know, and so it’s just, it’s just been kind of fun. Seeing the writers develop that way. And so I’m going to show you, you don’t have to write a ton of copy. You don’t want to write a ton of copy for a headline, you want to write copy is gonna catch the attention of your market. And boom, there it is. Did it. So that was a cool experience just happened last week?

Jeremy Weisz 37:15

On the inside of that. Carline? Is that the copy that you wrote for the?

Carline Anglade-Cole 37:20

Yes. Once you get inside, inside the back copy. Back Cover, though. That’s the control. So I wrote all the code. That’s why, you know, the thing is, it’s a cool experience, because I wrote the package. So I have freedom to allow other writers to play with my covers, right? So they can use anything inside that they see they use it as their cover Test ID. So what they would have to say is, I this is a cover test that I beat, you can say that they wrote the whole package. Right? And they know that was like no, here’s a cover test that I did, because guess you know, headlines and the cover tests are the most important part of the promotion anyway, you know, if you can write a strong headline, you know, that’s, that’s, that’s gonna get you in the door. So now she can use this cover to talk about her story of you know, she’s a new writer so you know, doesn’t have a lot of samples now. She’s got a great sample put this thing on your website. I told her I will even give you a testimonial on there might be a testimonial from me saying yeah, she kicked my butt. And I mean, is that not gonna help writers go to the next level? Would you not want something like that if you’re getting started? And so that’s what I’m

Jeremy Weisz 38:31

on what’s on the back? Did they try and test the back or

Carline Anglade-Cole 38:35

the back cover? Actually the back is usually a previous control. Got it? Um, you know it kind of fatigue control so in this case, it was just do it. Eat poop repeat. You know, so she saw

Jeremy Weisz 38:48

that I mean, no pain no strain no pain, no

Carline Anglade-Cole 38:51

strain no busting the vein right? So so she took that approach and said we’ll just do it’s gonna be the back I’m gonna go to the front and go poof there it is. And that was that was I had some great covers I had by by tourney as a cover. I had puplic a kid again. I’m getting through the rest of them. It was some different ones but that way all submitted we tested them they all did pretty well but this one was the kick

Jeremy Weisz 39:17

I remember you know when you were I think I was at that meeting with Brian Kurtz when you’re talking and your methods? What is to listen to music? I mean, all those are plays off of music you as inspiration listen to music as you’re writing your copy, right? Yeah, well,

Carline Anglade-Cole 39:36

yeah, you know, I was working on a pain promotion one time I was kind of stuck on what to write about Carly Simon, you know, haven’t got time for the pain started playing it. And all of a sudden I’m using the you know, the concept, you know, of what she’s saying and I’m like, put these a subhead and see what happens, you know, and so because music is nothing but a story. You know, just a short you know, two minute story So I thought, let me see what happens if I did something like that. And so from there just kind of morphed into becoming a promotion. But a lot of times, yeah, you turn some music on to help you get started. I mean, I don’t do it all the time I use it to kind of help me kind of get on the reboot myself, to help me just get inspiration and motivated. You know, when I’m stuck on something, yeah, absolutely. Music, I mean, and listen to what what, listen to the words, listen to the cadence, people don’t realize when you are writing a sales promotion, there’s a beat to your promotion, you gotta you know, there’s a rhythm. And so that’s why if you say something, it’s like, and this doesn’t sound like it’s like a thud. It’s like, because you’re off beat, you’re off. So go back and pick out a word and make another word longer or something. And then when you’re reading your copy, there needs to be a little rhythm, whatever the rhythm is, whether you want to make a country, Western rhythm or blues with, but put some rhythm into the words so that it comes out very easily when you when you’re, you know, you’re speaking the words. And the other thing is also, you know, write you know, don’t write, copy, you talk copy, you know, you write, you know, talk, you copy out loud, hear what you’re saying, and what doesn’t sound right. Because we are talking conversation in print here. This is strictly, you know, a conversation you’re having with your market. I want

Jeremy Weisz 41:15

to talk about Your Copy Sucks – You Don’t!: 60 Kick-Butt Lessons. And if you want to hold that up, yeah. And I’m just start off with, I noticed, you know, when I read the book, lesson 34.

Carline Anglade-Cole 41:31

Lesson 34, which is on the front cover of the book, that is the Your Copy Sucks – You Don’t I mean, I love this lesson, because when I wrote this section, it really helped me see a lot more meaning to it. So I just say, when I before I let my crazy copies, it’s my mentoring show, we do, in addition to helping them write cover tests, I also do copy critiques for them. So they are because they’re writers at different scales. And some of them are experienced writers who are just beginning. So they have copied that one turn to a client. When we look at it first, we’ll do I’ll do copy critiques as part of the membership, right? So but But I learned my coffee pretty quickly make peace. And as I told you, he could be a little harsh, right? So before we would start the coffee party process, I would tell everyone, okay, I want everyone repeat after me. You know, you’re you’re awesome. You’re amazing. Your Copy sucks. You don’t Okay? Because as writers, you know, we are words are babies, you know, we can take a personal so it’s like, Okay, I’m going to go, I may be attacking your copy, but I’m not attacking you. I’m never attacking you as a person. But my job right now is I’m not your friend. I’m not your mother, I am your, your, you know, I’m critiquing critiquing your copy for you. So I’m going to look for holes, you know that you can fill them and make your copy stronger. So we set that up by saying remember, your copy sucks. You don’t. Okay, so we’re cool here that I go in, I tear into the copy and whatnot. But then as I was writing the book at this company realized that the mantra your copy sucks, you don’t is really more. Also, it fits perfectly for life. You know, bad things happen. It doesn’t mean you’re a bad person, you know, your kids grew up in school doesn’t mean you’re a bad parent. You know, it’s just stuff happens, and you got how you roll with is going to determine if you’re gonna have a successful or unsuccessful life. So I just thought about that, like, wow, that’s kind of a two edged sword here, because it’s not, it’s about copywriting. But it’s also about life. And that’s what this book is about. It’s it’s 60 lessons about copywriting, business and life. So all of these lessons will tie into each other in some form. Because that I think those lessons I could give you 300 lessons, but I narrowed down to 60. And I thought this is what I want to be able to share because whether you’re a copywriter, a businessman or just living your life, you can learn from these lessons.

Jeremy Weisz 43:55

I don’t remember curling which Yeah, thank you for that. Because it’s it’s good to preface the conversation with that, you know, I say this with love, but you know, you want people to take the feedback in and not get defensive, etc. I don’t remember which lesson it was, but it was the one where you basically went around to mentors, friends family to think them and one of the stories is you went to Beverly Hills.

Carline Anglade-Cole 44:19

Yes, this was a lesson I got five other ones but lessons it was, um, thank you mentors. And this was 11 years ago, when I I decided to do this I said for the whole year I’m going to I made a list of everyone that I thought was had a pivotal or had an important role in my life, whether in my childhood, my adulthood, but you know, whatever the case may be someone I thought helped me in some way that I’m extremely appreciative for. And so I made that list and I decided that in January, I was going to go visit my friend Sherry And she and I went to college together at the University of Southern California, and she’s probably the only person that I keep, like even keep up with after, you know, my college years. And so she was just very nervous she and her family just took me in, I moved. I’m 18 years old to 3000 miles away from home. And you know, I meet Sherry and her family just absorbed me. And I really appreciate that. So I wanted to go and say, you know, she knows I love her. They know I love, I love them. But I wanted to make the extra effort of flying out to LA and Pasadena to let them know I care for you guys, thank you to carry out that we were hanging out for the weekend. We’re going to go have a great time. Well, that’s what I was gonna do. Every I went through the whole year of picking different people, whether, you know, I flew out to California, flew out to Vegas, I was just all different parts on the west east coast, whatever. And I just made that a year of showing appreciation to my mentors. But I thought I was I thought I was giving as far as you know, giving them my time and thanking them and everything else. But that experience ended up being so much more of me still getting mentoring, you know, because that was when I was with Sherry, what happened that day, I was supposed to go meet with a client on a Friday. And then I was going to hang out with Sherry Saturday and Sunday fly back home Sunday night. Well, my clients, something happened and he had to cancel the meeting on Friday. So I said, Okay, fine. So I call Sherry said, Hey, listen, Mike, my client cancels, so I’m at the hotel, I’ll just, I’m here until whatever she goes, Why don’t you come to work with me? And I said, I’m okay. All right, fine. Well, Sherry is the personal assistant for Sidney Poitier. And so, Sherry invites me to go to work with her, which was in Sidney Poitier house, especially works in Beverly Hills. So I’m going with her and driving around Beverly Hills and going through it. I go in his house. I’m there the whole day, sharing on the phone. I just, you know, copywriters. Hey, we work anywhere, right? I just found a corner. Park myself in a corner. I met the staff. And then I met his wife, I met his daughter. I was like, This is so crazy. I can’t believe this happening. Right? So he shares on the phone. She’s talking to people Tyler Tyler Perry calls, Kathleen Kennedy calls, Oprah calls. I mean, she’s having these conversations. I’m right here going, give me a phone over talking and talking. She’s like, hey, why don’t you like, oh, you know what he’s like, I feel like silly kids. And we did like we always do. So had the best time ever. And then she says, you know, she thought Mr. 14 was going to be busy. I said, it’s okay. I’m looking around his room. I’m seeing Oscars. I’m seeing all kinds of awards. I’m seeing famous people with him all. I’m like, This is crazy, right? And so I ended up working in one. And Sherry says a Carline and I’m like, Yeah, hold on one second, because Carline, and I look up and there’s Mr. Poitier standing right there. And he was there. He did not just say hello, how are you? Goodbye? No, he stood there, we had a nice, maybe 35 40 minute conversation. And he’s asking me how sharing our friends and he’s asking me, um, you know, how, what do I do? What am I doing? And what does you know, how’s my family, and I just first thing to say to him, I guess I just blurted out, my mother loves you. And then I saw her and tell her, it’s, I’m calling my mom on a cell phone right there for mom, well, you won’t believe this, right? And he’s just, you know, just the most gracious person. And he in turn, even though it’s 40 minute conversation, I had one of the most amazing mentoring opportunities from him, you know, and then giving me some guidance and direction and, you know, just oh my goodness. So, again, whenever you think you’re doing something, somebody else, you know, most of the time you get back so much more, you know, in return so that was just one of the amazing experiences I had that year that year. So showing my mentors that I really thought I really you know, care about them and just so happened to any party passes away a few days ago. So it makes it even more special. Now, I have a picture if you look back here it’s my finger hold on to see right there wow, the picture with me right then in there with that picture. So that’s amazing. That their pretend 11 years now,

Jeremy Weisz 49:21

you know, like a great direct response marketer copywriter for your book. You have bonuses, gifts, if someone gets your book. And, again, I don’t know a lot of people when they have a book, they don’t necessarily have all these bonuses and gifts. Talk about how why you decided on those and what are some of the things when you buy you know, Your Copy Sucks – You Don’t?

Carline Anglade-Cole 49:45

Well, you know, before even writing the book, I said, Okay, I got it. What am I gonna give? It’s gonna be awesome for this book. Make it really cool because this book really, I’m sharing a lot of lessons that I’ve learned I’m at a stage right now in my life where you know, I I enjoy seeing people grow. And if there’s no competition, I’m not worried about, oh, you’re going to steal my secrets. And now I won’t have clients, you know, it’s like, it’s not there. So I’m thinking, You know what I’m gonna just go ahead and just well, people is what I’m going to do this for you. So I miss when this particular book, I give you, my sample samples of my swipe file, you get samples of my actual promotions, you can as PDFs I give you I let you see what copy critiques are, like how I do copy, critique, not one, not two, but three times I show you how I’m critiquing copy that you get to look over my shoulder and then help you to be able to see the mistake that most writers make. So I put together this whole bundle where you’ve got, you know, you’ve got swipe files, you’ve got the the copy, critique, and then my daughter number two tier and I did an amazing interview, I call it a mother daughter SmackDown, where I try to help you know, you unleash your inner hustle. So I put all that together in a bundle, and it’s worth $1,709. So $1,799 And I said, Okay, you can have all of this free when you purchase my book. And it can be a 999 Kindle book, you know, it could be audio book, it could be a paperback hardback, I don’t care, you buy the book, you’re telling me you want to know more about me, or you know, you like me, and you want to understand what I do. I’m saying you do that I’m going to help you boot I’m going to give you a whole lot more than you think you know, and so that’s the gift that you get when you purchase the book. You will have access to that $1,799 sort of 14 free gifts that total total that amount that you get for free you know and I’m doing Am I doing it cuz I want to that’s all cuz I want to

Jeremy Weisz 51:41

and people can get the book they can go to Amazon audible. Any other

Carline Anglade-Cole 51:46

website. to see more about the book on my website, you go there book a pop up at you immediately. Want to go to Amazon order straight. That’s fine. It’s on Audible. Yep, it’s on, you know, Kobo was on whatever a Barnes and Noble? Is it that you know, it’s out there? It’s online.

Jeremy Weisz 52:03

So once they buy it, then how do they get the swipe me

Carline Anglade-Cole 52:09

they will get access to the link? Oh, gotcha. Yeah, they’ll get a link that an access to the link that will allow them to download the book immediately. You know, the link the access to the in the book that you’re going to get it. So once you read the book, you’ll see how to get it. And it’s pretty cool. I think you’ll it’s $1,800 worth of stuff for a $10 you know ebook really? Come on. In. I’m a marketer. Oh, that’s a no brainer, isn’t it?

Jeremy Weisz 52:38

I mean, that that swipe, I would probably argue it’s worth more than $1,800 because it’s made a hell of a lot more money than than that.

Carline Anglade-Cole 52:47

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So but it’s just you know, what, I picked the first book I gave away $950 with a my swipe file and the first book and that worked out that was so great people like this, I can’t believe it. But I thought Well, I kind of make next one better. So I gave different swipe files and then I added the copy critique element and then the interview is that there is a different bundle here that you can get with this book. So if you got both books for $20 You’re getting about $2,800 worth of value.

Jeremy Weisz 53:17

It’s an example currently and have one of the swipes in in this one that for the year.

Carline Anglade-Cole 53:25

I have I have on this one I have let’s say for the health market. I have my control for inflammation I have a weight you know it’s like oh my gosh, I have remember all the ones that have been confused with the two but you got blood pressure inflammation heart related, you’ve got energy um I can’t remember all the rest sorry. But that’s what you know I just went I went into this my All Stars by files I just say okay, which ones are these promotions maybe the most money and I looked at it as in the health market. And so I said alright, well these are the ones when I get up there you go

Jeremy Weisz 54:03

I’m Carline this is amazing. Always a pleasure talking to you. I want to point people towards your website. You can go to CarlineCole.Com And check out everything she’s doing Are there any other places online that we should point people towards?

Carline Anglade-Cole 54:18

Go to my YouTube channel Carline Cole YouTube channel I give I have free video on our trade copywriting training sessions on there for you if you got 60 seconds, I can give you some copywriting training, you got an hour I can give you the more you know, so just depends on what you want. But I know the people that are being attracted to me besides 50 plus year old white males are also mothers busy moms with kids. So I wrote the book so you can run to the bathroom and read a chapter and peace and then come back out again. And so even though the videos are I have short videos too long ones to teach you how to write headlines how to find your lead Just whatever you need as a writer, you know, so it’s like, go check it out, you know, it’s free, you know, so I’m giving you the stuff and I’m telling you that you can use it and it’s funny shows you the copywriting life that I lead and how I got I got to this point I got awesome. I got the click Make these tributes on there that we did last year had an 18 amazing speakers come and share their Clinton experience and moments. And that’s all on the websites. I’m sorry, all on the YouTube channel that you can take a look at it and it’s yours. You know, while it’s there until I take it down. It’s yours, you know, to watch as much as you want to.

Jeremy Weisz 55:36

Who were some of the people that gave a tribute to

Carline Anglade-Cole 55:40

Bob Bly, Brian Kurtz Caleb Dowd. Kim Krause a swamp. Marcella Allison, Cindy Butte horn, David Deutsch, Laurie how Howler Paris land propolis Wendy made peace actually spoke I have my two daughters Milan to her and to Nicole to was my it was my also helping me with the whole thing. She was my co host the guinea buddy I can’t take a look on

Jeremy Weisz 56:13

YouTube but that’s yeah, I mean the who’s who of some of the top direct response marketers on the planet, essentially.

Carline Anglade-Cole 56:19

Yep, yep. Yep, I forgot anybody. I’m sorry but I’m off top my head those ones those ones that popped up. You know

Jeremy Weisz 56:25

that much more check out their YouTube channel. Check out and thanks, everyone. Thanks, Carline.