Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 16:59
Well, I get it. It’s like I can feel that even one person coming, hey, do you have a minute? You’re like, oh God, you know? And then it’s happening over and over again. It becomes demoralizing in a way.
Yeah. And stressful in a way.
Andy Ruben: 17:17
So I felt like maybe I had really. I think the thing for me is I really worried that I’d let a lot of people that I’d convinced to do this thing, I’d led them all astray. And I think the self-doubt for me was really in like, gosh, what did I do? What did I do to all these people who have kids, who left great iOS engineer, who left Comcast with his young daughter. And I just remember, like walking with him when I convinced him to join. And he’s like, Andy, really?
I should leave. You know Comcast is great. And I’m like oh my gosh I didn’t quite have the like you want to sell sugar water, but it’s like you convince a lot of people to come join. And you’ve got to be. So you’ve got to be so bullish on what’s going to happen.
And then when it doesn’t go that way, you I felt responsible that I had just really effed up. Right. And like, you’re kind of you don’t know. And you just have to keep guessing. Like you’re kind of guessing and having confidence that there’s something there.
But it’s really hard to know.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 18:16
Yeah, I mean, it was obviously a lot of hard moments leading to a pivot and then talk about then on the other side, what did that look like with Patagonia then?
Andy Ruben: 18:29
Yeah. Well it wasn’t I mean, it’s any people even inside Trove right now seem surprised by these stories. But to get I think whenever you’re starting something that’s really net new, of course nobody’s doing it or it wouldn’t be net new, right. It wouldn’t be an interesting new thing that needed that, you know. You believe the world needs.
I remember for Eileen Fisher, there’s someone that I’m still friends with. I was just with her in New York three weeks ago. And, you know, I mean, I all but stalked her, like, I figured out who was going to be the decision maker, who Eileen would listen to here. And her name was Cynthia. And I was, you know, made a ticket to New York, and Cynthia couldn’t meet with me.
And I was basically waiting outside her office for her to walk out of the building. And I kept changing my ticket and staying with friends on their couches, because maybe tomorrow I’d, like, sit outside the darn office until she’d meet with me for ten minutes. And, you know, you really like. If you don’t, I think what’s at least what I reflect back on and still feel if that didn’t work, the thing would go under. And if I compare that risk to what would happen in a larger company like my experience at Walmart or Procter and Gamble, if something didn’t work, you know, maybe comp sales would be 3.5%.
Not, you know, not for. But you’re still just fine. You might get half your bonus. Not all of it. Whereas, like, if Cynthia didn’t say yes, if I couldn’t convince Cynthia, there was a whole new thing and she had to do it, there’d be no health care for everybody.
I’ve convinced to join like there’s no company. And so you just. I think it’s what’s great about startups is it necessitates putting more on the line. And so your comparison to going for things is being gone as opposed to less of the same. So I think you just, you know, in, in it’s a very real like push to do things that are uncomfortable.
The number of and there’s a story that we often tell with Patagonia where the CEO said, yes, individual Nellie at one point was going to go with someone who might have been a competitor to us. And I remember I was sitting in this office in San Francisco and she said, oh, I’m thinking of doing this other thing. And she was at outdoor retailer in Salt Lake City. And I said, Nellie, don’t go anywhere, I’ll be there. And she started to say that she was in Salt Lake City, which I knew, but I hung up the phone, went straight to SFO, jumped on a plane and showed up, and it was very difficult to get into a conference I wasn’t invited to.
So you’ve got to kind of wiggle your way in, explain your retail, all kinds of things, and then eventually, probably three hours later, I show up and I find Nellie, she’s like, oh my gosh, here you are. Right. And I just like, I was not going to leave Nellie’s side until we had a commitment that we were going to go do this, and I didn’t really know what I was going to say. And in that conversation, she gave me one kind of lifeline unexpectedly, where she said, oh, she said, it’s kind of like the surfboard swaps that Yvonne’s been doing. And I’m like, yes, that online.
Right. And that became the pitch. But it wasn’t a pitch going in. It was the pitch because Nellie’s like gave me like an ounce of what might work. And so by the time I left, like we were hanging out that night, we’ve decided we’re going to go do this.
But, you know, those moments happen all the time and everyone is going to be the end unless you, like, don’t worry about it. Head to SFO and get a ticket to wherever you got to go. And I think that’s like a I mean, I think every entrepreneur has got dozens of those.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 22:03
And we’ll touch on what you’re working on now actually, because I know you’re working on a new project. By the time people listen to this, it’s out probably. But after hearing all this, I’m thinking, why would you ever start anything else like this? Just, I guess, like comparing it to. A woman being pregnant.
Like, why would you. It’s like maybe you forget about it and you have the second one because it’s not an easy process at all, to say the very least. So it’s like, I don’t know what you call it, but there is some term for it, like just you forget what it’s like. But. So I’m like saying all that you started something new anyways.
But. So we’ll get to that. But I want to know how the implementation work. So walk people through a little bit about okay, so now people can use Trove. What does that look like for a brand like Patagonia, Rei and Lululemon.
Andy Ruben: 23:01
Yeah. So first of all it’s changed a lot since that was 2017 that we launched with Patagonia, Eileen Fisher and Rei, which we did almost back to back, which was and just I mean, I’m really honestly looking back, there are so many moments to that. I’m really surprised that I’m surprised we made it. We were not. We should like at the moment that people were buying items.
We hadn’t quite figured out how we were going to ship the items. At the moment we ship the items, we hadn’t quite figured out how people would return them. We were just one step ahead of the chopping block at every moment, and I’m really, really thankful that somehow the team stuck it out like it was. More than one should be able to ask for a team, but there’s a sense of camaraderie. And yeah, we could go into many stories there.
But at that point, because it was a new thing, Trove did everything. So if you were if you bought a used Patagonia item and you called up, you talked to someone at Trove and we pretend we were warned. Where? Patagonia. Right.
So we were doing the logistics, we were doing data, everything. And then slowly, as the industries developed, which seven, you know, several hundred million dollars now as it developed from that first sale, it’s become more specialized. So over time, brands have said, why would you, why would you, why would you want to build a separate website for us? We actually have a website and it does quite well, and we have a lot of people who work on that. Can’t we just use our website?
Right. And so now it’s the technology that pipes into your website. We’ve got a fulfillment operation. Why don’t we just use that. So you’ve got to take the software you used for your own supply chain and buildings and figure out a way that other people can use it, which means you’ve got to basically totally transform it, because you’ve put up internally with a lot of things that clients wouldn’t put up for if they’re paying for it.
You know, all the transitions. So at this point, the industry has really gone to a technology layer. And so the way that a brand would implement that is a new brand shows up and says, you know, the first question is what you want to sequence, like what you really want to what’s your what do you want to do? And typically what I’d recommend to a brand is start with being more of the brand. Like if you’re Levi’s, just be cooler.
If you’re Nike, be cooler. If you’re Gucci, be more like depending on the designer. Like with Michelle when Michelle was at Gucci, it was be more expression self-expression. If you’re Patagonia, it’s, you know, be more of an activist. So do more of the brand and think about this as a channel.
And then Troves got an implementation team comes in and helps you figure out how to sequence that, where to get early items. How do you start? How do you build it? What are the metrics and where to go? And it’s not turnkey, but it’s pretty close right now.
And Trove now has a number of competitors. And so there are options in the marketplace. It’s a good and bad thing. I think it’s good overall for the industry. Hard for anyone who started something to realize how many people are able to just pick up all the early work and just start with where you are 3 or 4 years in which they will give you compliments about.
But really, it’s a thing. It’s tough.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 26:09
If let’s just take an example, I have some Lululemon stuff at home, let’s say. Yeah, what is a consumer do then? Are they going to Lululemon store like I mean like how does that work from a consumer perspective?
Andy Ruben: 26:23
Bring a little lemon item into any Lululemon store you walk in. You’re holding five items. Any of the any of the, you know, Lululemon stores will call their employees educators. So any of the educators and you’re a guest, any of the educators will take back those items and hand you a gift card. It should take no more than 30s.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 26:43
And then do they have like they’re using kind of Trove software to do the I mean, what happens after that when Lululemon takes it?
Andy Ruben: 26:52
So here’s where the software comes. Here’s what the software basically helps you figure out what the item is, how to price, how much money you get back to a customer given the condition. Because all these items compare to one Lululemon or anyone would have bought the original item, which you know the condition. It’s all new. You don’t know where the item’s been over the last since it’s been seen last, right?
So the condition what to do with the items. So some items should get recycled. Some of them should get resold by the brand. Right? By Arc’teryx.
Some should get resold in a store. Rei resell some items in stores, some online, some both. Some items go to eBay. Right? A brand might decide this is an item that is resellable, but not for our platform.
You mentioned certified pre-owned cars. You bring a Lexus in. Sometimes it’s certified pre-owned. Sometimes it’s a used car on the Lexus lot. Sometimes it goes to auction.
So the idea is help every customer make use of whenever they’re holding an item. Make it super easy. Easy button. Love that. And then on the other side, just list it.
We all know how to buy things. The brand just shows us new and used and where the world is going. And some of the brands we work with are leading here. You should just be shopping for a men’s Patagonia Medium nano puff, and they would just say, hey Andy, the black nano puff you’re looking at for 160. By the way, here’s one we’ve already made for 90.
Do you want that one? It’s in excellent condition. And you know that it’s Patagonia. So you buy it, you don’t like it, you send it back or you bring it back to a store. So it’s just where we are going is the distinction between new and used will go away.
And in that brands have an ability to sell their item multiple times. But so as a customer they just make it like it’s just shopping and it’s just when you go in, you just bring items and you get money for them and you get things you want.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 28:42
Now you were chatting. It’s super interesting. We were chatting before we hit record and you had mentioned I would maybe do things different on the business development front. I mean.
Andy Ruben: 28:55
Yeah.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 28:56
What you did. I mean, you’re jumping on planes. You’re, you know, you’re showing up at conferences. I mean, yeah, and you’re not even guaranteed to get into the conference or even talk to the person itself. Right.
Yep. So I’m curious your thoughts on business development and what your experience been, what worked, what didn’t work, what you do differently there?
Andy Ruben: 29:16
Yeah, that was the moment in reflection, the moment that I messed up on wasn’t that first moment when we were really small and I was trying to convey a new idea, and I was kind of the tip of the spear because, you know, I knew retail and brands and it was my idea. And I could really, you know, I could I think one of the beauties of a startup is you have to get so deep in the space that allows you to really be helpful to other people when you’re trying to explain it, because you can go anywhere they want to go. Typically most places. And so where in reflection, I messed up is when we started to get bigger. So you go from 2 or 3 brands to ten brands, 20 brands, 30 brands.
And then you’re trying to sell and you’ve got more people in the pipeline. And I made the mistake of trying to bring in professional salespeople. And I did it because I thought, just like everything else, like when you’re early on, you’re the head of operations, you’re the head of product, you’re the CFO, you’re the you know, you’re the head of business development. Maybe you’ve got a maybe you divide things with other founders and you bring other people on. But so I thought, gosh, business development is a craft and I should bring in someone who’s really good at this.
It’s not me. And if I could have gone back, it’s not. That was the wrong move. The timing was off. There’s a moment.
And. And later on, I think I realized is I don’t know who I heard on a podcast, but they were basically explaining how founders often mess that up. And I’m sitting there listening to the podcast going, oh my gosh, I’m like, case study A, B, and C on that. And what I did was, you know, I tried to outsource that sales motion before it was a motion. And there’s a moment where you’re still inventing the motion.
I think that’s really got to be done by a founder. And what I would have done, and I did get advice I didn’t listen to, unfortunately, here, but I would have been in every one of those. And instead of hiring a sales lead, I would have hired sales support so that I could have spent time in front of clients with the support that I wasn’t. Also the one trying to figure out, you know, the sales funnel and cold calling. And I would have gotten support anyway.
And so I just made the move too early. And what happened is I think we just missed. So on several occasions, having someone who was really good at sales, but not it wasn’t their fault. It was that the company wasn’t ready to have that person yet because we couldn’t hand them the playbook.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 31:37
I’d love to hear some of the big lessons you learned at Walmart, Andy, because I know you went from VP corporate US strategy to Chief Sustainability Officer, VP of Private brands, VP of global E-commerce and omnichannel. What are some of the big lessons? Well, I mean there for I think a decade, right. So talk about some big lessons there.
Andy Ruben: 32:01
You know the one of the gosh, there’s so many lessons what I, what I take to what I took away overall for that company and I’m so thankful for is that say what you want about Walmart. But any company that’s been successful like it has over time, has a culture and has a way of working that has been successful, undeniably successful. And when you, you know, right before the right before we started, you mentioned reading Sam Walton’s book, which I’d recommend to anyone in retail, because it’s just one of those you need to read about Sam Walton. You need to read about Jim Sinegal at Costco and, you know, Price Club. And they’re just kind of modern retail.
They were the pioneers. But the culture and the leadership was so extraordinary. And it’s the type of experience that you, there’s a lot of books written about leadership because I think it’s so elusive. It’s kind of, you know it when you see it. But to be a pardon to work for people.
I got to work for Lee Scott, who is the CEO of Walmart for six years. And there was an internal joke that I spent more time with Lee than his wife, Linda. So I ran strategy for Lee and then got to start sustainability. And the number of times I would get to be kind of in his office when something was going on and to just kind of absorb, to see the way that he would handle it. You know, there’s not a day that goes by and anything else I’ve done since that I don’t, you know, he just one of those learnings or moments pops into my head.
And it’s why I give, you know, people in school advice who want to do sustainability or startups or that there’s so many different places to start. And if you start in big companies, grab all the leadership lessons you can. Then when you go to startups, apply them, learn like figure out why they you know what you typically what I found was there’s so many things that maybe I thought I understood when I was at a big company, but didn’t understand until I messed them up myself. And then we’d go back and realize, gosh, there’s a reason that we did a Friday meeting and there’s a reason that it happened like it happened. And there’s a moment I remember at Walmart with the current CEO, where I was sitting with the current CEO, that was at that point, head of Sam’s Club, was CEO of Sam’s Club, Doug McMillon.
And I was basically in Doug’s office, and I was complaining about a peer of mine. And I walked into Doug’s office, and this is someone, David Redfield, who I’ve stayed close with. And I was complaining that David Redfield just wasn’t on board. Doug looked at me and he said, David? I said, yeah.
And all of a sudden Doug’s on his phone. He’s calling David. He’s like, David, it’s Doug. I’m here with Andy. And he said, you’re just not playing ball.
And all of a sudden I’m on speaker with myself, David and Doug, and Doug said, Andy, go ahead. And there I am. And I’m face-to-face now complaining to the CEO of Sam’s Club about what David Redfield is or isn’t doing. And it’s like you learn things by being in that environment that like, I don’t know how many leadership books I would have had to read to learn what Doug. I mean, they’re like and there are thousands.
There are thousands of those.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 35:08
I love that. I’d love to hear any some of your favorite books. So I mentioned when we were talking Sam Walton Made in America. I just listened to a couple weeks ago. Fantastic.
Amazing. One of my favorites. Now, what are some of your favorite other business leadership books that you’d recommend?
Andy Ruben: 35:25
I am having a small obsession right now with complexity. So Santa Fe Institute. So I just finished scale. Let me go back to favorite all times. I think it’s I always have a problem with like what I’ve read lately tends to be my favorite book.
The ones that I think have really moved me. There’s one that Jeff Bezos always talks about with blanking on the name. With the normal distribution versus the long tail distribution. Blacks. The Black Swan is a fundamental book.
Boy. Other fundamental books. A podcast that I really enjoy is acquired just because it’s got really good stories to it. Right. And they like basically do a monthly book as a podcast.
I just love biographies in that same way. Other books right now. So Gosh. Black swan. Sapience is kind of an obvious one.
I’m blanking right now on.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 36:37
Behind you there.
Andy Ruben: 36:39
Yeah, but actually better. I’ve. I won’t be able to do it fast enough. I actually keep an ongoing list. I really enjoy reading more than I can describe.
And I feel like if I could just ingest books faster, I would.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 36:54
What was the latest you said was scale, was that the.
Andy Ruben: 36:57
Scale was scales. Looking at how kind of nature develops with metabolism. Right. Metabolism is like ingesting of energy that either goes to maintenance or growth. And it’s looking at biological and ecological systems and then compares them to companies of systems and cities.
And one of the things fascinated me right now is if you think of companies that are more than 100 years old, there are very few of them. You think of cities that have been around more than 100 years and pretty much all of them. And you realize that things happen in the organizational and construct of a city that don’t happen in companies. And it just puzzles me and pushes on what we could do better in leadership as companies that we wouldn’t. We wouldn’t be as susceptible to shocks and changes.
And I think that generally there are things that obviously have worked really well for companies, but in the moment we’re in right now where nobody can keep up with the pace of change. Like I would just go out and say it’s absolutely nobody. I was sitting last week with some of the AI companies, Perplexity and the likes, and I was just having a moment where I was realizing that no matter how hard I try, it’s just really hard to keep up with what is happening. And so as you think about that, from an organizational standpoint, in a company, if an individual can’t. How does a leadership team possibly keep up?
And so I think we’re in need of some additional structures and ways of doing things. And I’ve been looking toward other models, and I’ve also tried to I don’t think it can be a wholesale change of leadership, because I’ve also seen those things not work before, but I think there’s supplemental ways to keep people learning and being curious in corporations that give them a little bit more resilience to the amount of change happening right now.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 38:51
Andy, what I find fascinating about your journey again, I did a lot of research for this so early on, I would have been like, Andy’s going to start his own company. He’s an entrepreneur. I remember hearing the story of you fixing VCRs. My favorite part of that story about fixing VCRs is, you know, or not fixing, but actually installing VCRs. And you’re like, it took you two seconds.
But one of the lessons, I think, for any company software or whatever is you couldn’t make it look too easy or they wouldn’t pay you a lot, so you would actually wait. Even if it took you one second, you kind of sit there for a while and plug and unplug it. And that’s actually I heard a software founder do this. Like, his software would spit out the answer right away. And they’re like, well, they won’t value it.
So he started like a timing bar on the screen. So when they inputted it, it took a little bit of time to load, even though it could have just spit out. So it was the same applicability to a software. But like I would think, okay, early on young Andy is going to be an entrepreneur, right? But then I look at your Walmart career for ten years and I’m like, okay, he’s going to be corporate forever.
Andy Ruben: 40:00
Yeah.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 40:01
And then so what made you decide, okay, I need to do this entrepreneur thing, right? Because I’m like, oh, ten years at Walmart. I mean, I don’t know what it is. Normally if you get through five years, you’re going to be there for 20 years or something. But.
Right. What made you decide to then? Okay, I’m ready to spread my wings and just do my own thing.
Andy Ruben: 40:23
And I really had ideas that I feel like I. I had four different roles at Walmart when I had a lot of autonomy when I was working for someone like the CEO. I could really spread my wings, and there was a lot of patience and forgiveness and almost push right to do those. The last role was a difficult role because I think it was difficult for the company. It was reporting to the board, and it was how Walmart would how Walmart would adapt to e-commerce.
And I think it was of the four roles.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 40:58
A big.
Andy Ruben: 40:58
Question that, yeah, it was I think it’s a really important question because I think there’s a lot of learning in that because it’s not. I never buy the fact that people in companies who get outinnovated aren’t smart people. They’re always smart and they’re always working toward being relevant. So then it becomes what gets in their way of addressing a major change. And I think you’ve got to look deeper than just saying, oh, they just you know, they just missed that photos would be taken by a phone. They just missed that.
You know, phones wouldn’t just be phones. Whatever the changes are like, you can’t, you’ve got to go deeper. And I think then you really get into what makes business so fascinating, which is humans. And we’re so weird and in beautiful ways, but it’s understanding how we behave and why we behave that way is where the depth is on how companies miss these things. So that fourth role was very difficult for me, and I wanted to spread my wings again.
And I just, I think I, had some arrogance and I had some desire just to try some things. One thing that I’ve looked back and missed about Walmart is I really missed the scale. When you go from having scale and getting to do things that just are on the shelf, changing packaging, right, or whatever it is, you see it, you know, 150 million people see it next week, and you go from that environment to trying to convince someone who doesn’t care. You know, no one’s ever heard of the company you work for and trying to convince someone of that. You know where you work and what you do and why you do it.
That is boy, it’s certainly a great way to find some humility for sure. But I think.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 42:37
It’s a great way. But it is a way to.
Andy Ruben: 42:40
It might be a fast way. And I think what’s kept me with it. You know, you mentioned. So I feel like I just started something new. And I think what keeps me in it is the challenge and the fun of that.
And that every time you, you know, every time you do something, one of the things that I really held close to me all the way through in the last 15 years in startups is never waste a good crisis. The only way to approach an environment where most likely, I mean, high odds are that you will be irrelevant and gone in a year. So if you do everything right, you might just survive. The only way to survive that is all the things that pop up you just have to like. I think that idea of like, never waste a good crisis almost reframes it for the team and for you, that’s like, okay, cool.
It is what it is. We can’t, we just — let’s go. Let’s figure it out. And what can we make out of this crap show that we are now dealing with? And so I think the same goes for learning in general.
And as I start a third thing, gosh, I want to do so many things differently. And it’s like you just I never tire of doing it once and going, cool, that was good. But oh my gosh, what would I do it better? This, by the way, was a core part of Walmart culture. Walmart.
Sam Walton used to call it. I think it was in the book correction of errors. No matter how good something is going, there are always ways to be better. And I talked to a founder yesterday who was talking about growth. And his growth.
Numbers were fantastic. And he was giving me some line about how we just don’t have to raise money. And I’m like, BS, could you grow faster? Like your whole thing is relevance. Don’t stop saying that.
Could you grow faster? And it’s like when you. There is always a moment to look back at whatever you’re doing and be better. And I love that. So starting a third thing I want to I want to do it again.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 44:36
Talk about that for a second. I know we have a few minutes left. Something new. What are you going to do differently this time around? And I just want to point out, I don’t know if you’ve written a book, but I think you just said the title of your next book.
If You do, But Never Waste a Good Crisis is a good title. So I don’t know, you’re busy enough, but I’d love to read that book. So yeah.
Andy Ruben: 44:58
Oh my gosh, super kind. I looking back at Trove like of the things I look at things the things I would do differently right now is I. And the advice I give people is to be crazily focused on the thing you have to do at the moment, as opposed to the ten other things you can do, and you just don’t have a lot of ability with a small team to do more than one thing, really. And so I want to see how fast with this new company we can get from, you know, we’re measuring everything in days right now. Like when did we incorporate how fast can we get the first contract with a client?
It’s a B2B company. How fast can we get that first contract? Could we get enough money from people who want this thing, or get enough feedback of why they don’t, and fix it before we ever actually have to spend the money? Like, how much could we optimize the financial game of a company? And boy, I hope to never raise money.
Maybe we will, maybe we won’t, I don’t know, but like when I was starting out, I feel like I was more susceptible to trying to understand this venture space. And I wanted to be in it. And I read a bunch of books, and I kind of wanted to see myself in that way and learn about the VC model in the I just want to do something that needs doing in the world, and I want to figure out how fast I can take that idea and make it real. And I want to optimize for that, as opposed to a dozen other things that I think I’ve gotten distracted by in the past going to conferences, doing pitch competitions. Those could be fine.
I’m not saying they’re bad, but just I want to optimize for the thing that really matters at the moment.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 46:41
Staying focused and just as fast as you can to either feedback or customer.
Andy Ruben: 46:49
Every hour that goes by, like every month is only time, and every hour that goes by is an hour. And if you can do something this hour, it’s better than next hour. Like, I think that that pace of getting to irrelevance is just what, what’s I, I wish there were. I really hope there are more startups in the world because I think it’s such a, you know, big companies are really good at the flywheel. They provide stability, they do great things.
They had a lot of value in the world. But the role of startups is to evolve how we do things, and it’s the specific role that these things are not being done right now. And then you’ve got to figure them out financially. And that the world could use more of that.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 47:33
Andy, I want to be the first one to thank you. Thanks for sharing your journey. Stories, lessons. It’s been really instructive. I’ve really enjoyed just learning about this even before the conversation.
Everyone can check out trove.com to learn more and then check out what Andy’s doing next. We’re not going to mention it now, but you can check him out — Andy Ruben on LinkedIn. And just check out what he’s doing there. So Andy thanks so much.
Andy Ruben: 47:58
Oh my gosh. Thank you. Awesome.
