[Private Equity Series] Building Enduring Businesses With Keith Burns

​Keith Burns is the CEO and Co-chairman of Lullwater & Co., a private investment firm dedicated to building enduring companies through long-term partnerships. He also serves as Co-executive Chairman of Apex Physics Partners, the largest medical physics services provider in the US, and previously led Seneca Creek Partners, a search fund that completed 15 acquisitions and achieved a successful investor exit in 2019. A former attorney and Goldman Sachs executive, Keith holds a BBA from Emory University and a JD and MS in real estate development from Columbia University. He is an adjunct assistant professor of entrepreneurship at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business and actively mentors emerging entrepreneurs through teaching and board service.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

• [03:59] Keith Burns discusses Lullwater & Co. and its mission to build enduring businesses
• [05:40] Ideal acquisition size, range, and business characteristics Lullwater seeks
• [09:34] Comparing growing businesses to raising teenagers
• [12:59] Keith’s entrepreneurial roots — starting from a fried chicken wing truck
• [18:02] The importance of employee assessments and building a strong operational foundation
• [26:23] Lessons learned from integrating multiple acquired companies
• [31:10] Why Keith focuses on service-based businesses over software or manufacturing
• [33:59] Teaching entrepreneurship through acquisition at the University of Chicago
• [44:58] Keith’s favorite business and personal development books

In this episode…

Scaling a business feels like navigating chaos — especially when taking over a company in its awkward adolescent phase, where systems are fragile, leadership is thin, and growth potential remains untapped. Many entrepreneurs struggle with transitioning ownership, aligning staff, and building toward a sustainable future without losing what made the business special. So, how do you effectively professionalize and grow a service business while honoring its core culture?

Keith Burns, an experienced investor and operator, shares his strategic approach to acquiring and scaling service-based businesses. Drawing from his background in law, finance, and healthcare services, he outlines the importance of starting with a rock-solid foundation — listening to employees through HR assessments and building trust. He emphasizes the power of recurring revenue models, the risks of integration debt, and how to avoid common pitfalls like promising no change during acquisitions. Keith also dives into red flags to watch for, such as poor seller alignment or low cash flow conversion, and offers frameworks for assessing business viability and long-term potential.

In this episode of the Inspired Insider Podcast, Dr. Jeremy Weisz interviews Keith Burns, Co-chairman and CEO of Lullwater & Co., about strategic business acquisitions and scaling through thoughtful integration. Keith discusses how he grew the largest medical physics company in the US, shares lessons from teaching entrepreneurship at the University of Chicago, and talks about identifying business red flags, embracing culture, and choosing the right problems to solve.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• Keith Burns on LinkedIn
• Lullwater & Co.
• One Physics

Special Mention(s):

• Who Not How: The Formula to Achieve Bigger Goals Through Accelerating Teamwork by Dan Sullivan and Benjamin Hardy
• The Hard Thing About Hard Things: Building a Business When There Are No Easy Answers―Straight Talk on the Challenges of Entrepreneurship by Ben Horowitz
• Shoe Dog: A Memoir by the Creator of Nike by Phil Knight
• Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor E. Frankl
• Lewis Created a Billion-Dollar Business Empire by Reginald F. Lewis and Blair S. Walker

Related episode(s):

• “The Engine Behind Growing From 9 To 60 Healthcare Clinics With Peter Cunningham, Founder and CEO of Evolve Healthcare Marketing” on the Inspired Insider Podcast
• “Winning Digitally With Scott Becker, Founder and Publisher of Becker’s Hospital Review and Becker’s Healthcare” on the Inspired Insider Podcast
• “[Top Agency Series] Improving Healthcare Through Patient Engagement with Wes Michael of Rare Patient Voice” on the Inspired Insider Podcast

Quotable Moments:

• “What problems do you want to deal with? That’s a good question to kind of guide anyone.”
• “We’re constantly pushing how big can our vision be, so our employees’ visions can fit inside.”
• “Business is hard enough, so if you’re going to search for one, try to find one easier.”
• “We actually get energy from those early stages of professionalizing businesses. We think that’s where we thrive.”
• “You have to have a vision big enough for your employees to fit their dreams in.”

Action Steps:

1. Focus on recurring revenue businesses: Businesses with consistent income streams provide stability and time to learn as a new owner, reducing stress and improving long-term success.
2. Invest in employee assessments early: Conducting HR evaluations helps uncover operational issues and build trust with staff from the beginning, laying a strong foundation for growth.
3. Embrace a hands-on leadership style: Being willing to roll up your sleeves builds credibility and operational understanding, especially during the early professionalization phase.
4. Avoid promising “nothing will change” during acquisitions: Transparency prevents misaligned expectations and ensures smoother transitions by preparing teams for inevitable changes.
5. Respect and preserve company culture during integration: Identifying and protecting what makes a business special maintains morale and avoids undermining its existing strengths.

Episode Transcript

Intro: 00:15

You are listening to Inspired Insider with your host, Dr. Jeremy Weisz.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 00:22

Dr. Jeremy Weisz here founder of inspiredinsider.com where I talk with inspirational entrepreneurs and leaders. Today is no different. I have Keith Burns of Lullwater. You can check him out at Lullwaterco.com.

Keith, before I formally introduce you, I always like to point out other episodes of the podcast people should check out. Keith has a really interesting background, which we’re going to get into. And you know, they do a lot of acquisitions and specifically around services, health care services. It can you know, he’ll go into more detail on the range of types of businesses they’re looking for. But some I was looking at were some episodes that are in the healthcare space.

I had Pete Cunningham and he talks about the engine behind growing, helping grow healthcare clinics from 9 to 60. And another one was Scott Becker. And we talk about winning digitally. And he’s a publisher of Becker’s Hospital Review and Becker’s Healthcare. It was a really cool episode.

Also, Wes Michael of Rare Patient Voice, and he talked about improving healthcare through patient engagement. So check out those. This episode is brought to you by Rise25. Rise25. We help businesses give to and connect to their dream relationships and partnerships.

We do this in two ways. One, we help companies launch or run a podcast. We’re an easy button for our company to do that. We do the strategy, the accountability, and the full execution and production. You know, Keith, people are always like focused on the execution and production piece, but really it’s about the strategy and accountability and just executing on that stuff.

Number two, we’re an easy button for a company’s gifting, right? So we make gifting and staying top of mind to your clients, your partners, your prospects, and even your staff. Simple, seamless. And I like it to be affordable as well. That’s always good.

And so all you have to do is give us a list of your people you want to follow up with and keep in touch with. We do everything else. Okay. You know, we call ourselves kind of the magic elves that run in the background to make it look easy for the companies so they can build amazing relationships and run their business. Right.

So for me, the number one thing in my life is relationships. I’m always looking at ways on how I can give to my best relationships. I have personally found no better way over the past decade. To one profile, the people I admire and love on my podcast. Two send them sweet treats that they can eat every few months for years.

Okay. Because I like getting that stuff. If you have questions, go to rise25.com or email us at support@rise25. Dot com I’m excited to introduce Keith Burns. Keith Burns is the co-chairman and CEO of Lullwater and Co.

Lullwater and Co is a private investment firm dedicated to building enduring businesses. He also serves as co-executive chairman and former president of One physics. One physics is the largest medical physics services provider in the US where he led programmatic acquisition strategy resulting in 15 add-ons. Right? He’s got a background in law and finance, including roles at Goldman Sachs and top law firms, and he also serves on multiple boards.

So Keith, thanks for joining me.

Keith Burns: 03:44

Jeremy, thank you for having me, man.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 03:47

I’m excited to chat. And I’m going to share my screen in a second and show people Lullwater, but just start off and talk about Lullwater and what you do.

Keith Burns: 03:59

Well, Lullwater is an organization. My business partner and I started to invest in really great businesses that we want to endure for the long time. Lullwater actually is it’s a park near Emory University where we went to college, and it was this really beautiful space, really peaceful, really calming, and is really a nod to that origin story. But also we want to be that peace and that calm for business owners that are looking to transition their businesses to us. And we think that, you know, Michael and I have a really unique perspective, having been not only investors but operators of an actual business for a decade into what business owners are going through, what their concerns are when they are transitioning a business, and ultimately how to do that and be a good next steward of their business and give them a good outcome on the exit as well.

So really excited about the opportunity. You know, we’re actively looking for business services businesses, primarily healthcare services, testing, inspection and compliance-based businesses, and in other business services businesses that sort of fit a recurring revenue model.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 05:18

I want to get into humble beginnings at some point, okay? Because that’s what kind of what shapes us. But I do want to talk about size and industry. Talk about size, like what are you looking for? If someone’s out there thinking, okay, we should put this in front of Keith and Michael.

Yeah.

Keith Burns: 05:40

So I would say our ideal size range is in doing this in terms of earnings, seller discretionary earnings or EBITDA, whatever the word that you want to use. But our ideal sweet spot is about 2 million to 5 million in certain circumstances, with really high-growing businesses. You know, we would be looking to start at a million or would be open to going that low. And then on the upper end, you know, if it’s a really great business, you know, 6 or 7 million in EBITDA, that is something that we could do as well. But I would say our sweet spot is at $2 to $5 million range of earnings.

And the reason for that is, you know, Michael and I, you know, want to build these businesses for the long term. And a lot of cases, that means getting them at the lower end and being able to build the right systems and processes, put the right people in place for long-term growth within the confines of the culture that we think is appropriate for an enduring business. And so in a lot of cases, that means starting smaller than what a lot of people maybe that are lower middle market private equity funds that would start no lower than five and go up. You know, we’re willing to get our hands dirty a little bit. And we like and we actually get energy from those early stages of professionalizing businesses.

We think that’s really where we have an advantage. We have an interest in that. We enjoy teaching and building and coaching people at that level. So it’s a really nice spot for us. That is slightly below where I would say most private equity firms would want to play, but those are still great businesses to build a platform from.

And that was the size range of the first business. You know, that became one physics that we bought was in that range as well. So we have directly applicable experience to that size of a business.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 07:40

Yeah. And also I like the way you think. I mean, like you were saying, there is probably from what you’re saying, maybe more of a gap there. So there’s opportunity. And also, since you’re willing to roll your sleeves up a little bit, there’s probably there’s a, you know, potential upside, right.

Because you’re adding your know-how and your knowledge, especially with what you did with one physics into this, injecting that into the business as well.

Keith Burns: 08:04

Yeah. I don’t, I don’t want to tell everybody, but that is the most efficient, inefficient, excuse me part of the market. You know, that $1 to $5 million range. You know it’s sizable enough. You have product market fit that it’s a real business that could be professionalized and often has some room to grow.

But it’s not a grown adult. It’s very much in that adolescent phase. And it takes a lot of hand-holding and a lot of guiding to get it to that next level. And I just think that that is the part one. There’s a great value opportunity, but then there’s also just a great alignment and fit with our skill sets and what we want to do every day.

And there are a ton of buyers on the other end, whether it be strategic private equity firms or in a lot of cases. You know, I think Michael and I see a space where we can keep these businesses indefinitely and, and really just continue to, to grow and have them impact the community and our employees and the customers, obviously.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 09:06

I mean, Keith, not everyone wants to roll their sleeves up and do work, right? So I think of it kind of like kids, right? Do you want this teenager that’s awkward and going to give you problems, and you’re gonna have to wake up from a night and have a curfew? Or do you want this adult that’s like, they’re handling their business. They’ve, you know, so it’s like it takes more work.

And again, I’m generally speaking here in that awkward teenage phase. Right.

Keith Burns: 09:34

Yeah. It’s just it’s just what do you what problems. Do you want to deal with. There are some people that like less ambiguity. And what I would argue is these larger firms like one what one physics is now is very different than what it was when it was CDP. When we bought it with 16 people, and there’s a skill set and the type of person that should lead what one physics is now. And we have a great CEO there, you know, currently in place versus what it was when Michael and I were rolling up our sleeves between the little house in Jarrettsville that was between the funeral store and the funeral home and the liquor store.

So that was a very different that took a very different skill set. You’re not getting you know, usually you’re not getting people from Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley to sort of go sit between those two things. But that’s what we brought to the table. So it’s just a very different skill set. And it’s really choose your own adventure, but it’s the adventure that we feel we can bring disproportionate value and energy to.

And there’s just a ton of businesses in that range. You know, if you think of the silver tsunami and all these businesses that are going to be changing hands from the baby boomers, a lot of those.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 10:47

Tsunami, I like that. Yeah.

Keith Burns: 10:49

We’re they’re not all going to their heirs. You know, those people don’t want to run landscaping companies and funeral homes and HVAC businesses or, you know, medical physics, you know, firms. And so, you know, having people that want to take those businesses and care about the legacy of those businesses, but want to professionalize them and accelerate growth. There’s a real market there. I think the other thing I’d say, and I’m sure you’re aware of this in the multiple businesses that you’ve had, you know, the person you become by running these businesses is, is, is a part of it as well.

And so I think what we love about Lullwater and the opportunity it gives us is, you know, who we are right now is, you know, the previous 40 some odd years of our lives and our professional careers, but there’s still so much growth that happens when you’re in a business every day and you’re leading people and you’re thinking through what are the new service lines we want to be? And, you know, where do we want to expand geographically? Do we want to buy another business? Do we want to invest in marketing salespeople? And I just get up every day excited to just see can I get a little bit better.

And I think that’s what really entrepreneurship is. And, and that’s, that’s what I really get excited about.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 12:11

I like how you put it. What problems do you want to deal with? That’s a good question to kind of guide anyone wherever they’re at. I love that, and I do want to fast-forward through your life a little bit, but I, you know, just to give people a sense. But start off with the humble beginnings.

Yeah. Okay. Because we’re talking mobile truck, selling fried chicken wings, groceries like take me just fast forward through. Okay, I did this. And then here’s some of the paths I’ve took.

Because, again, you went to law school. You still actually do teaching, right? So take me back to there and just fast forward me through all the interesting, you know, windy road.

Keith Burns: 12:59

Yeah. So I am.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 13:01

Chicken wings.

Keith Burns: 13:02

Fried chicken wings. So Gen X born in the very late 70s. And you can see in the background I have a picture of the skyline of Atlanta. So I was born and raised in Atlanta, Georgia, the youngest of three single mother. And I’d say, you know, while we may not have had a ton of money, we did have a lot of love.

And I really credit my mother with a love of reading and a love of learning. And so there were always books in my house. And, you know, my mom was a real estate agent and she had other jobs. But there were a lot of books on prosperity and abundance, and just these books that really spoke to anything was possible. And I think early on, that was the biggest thing that she imparted to me that anything was possible.

And there’s a story that she likes to tell where we were at church. So my mom’s an ordained minister and she’s been a minister for most of my life, you know, 30 plus years and we’re in church. I’m probably five, six, maybe seven. And there’s a quadriplegic there who is speaking and was detailing how they became a quadriplegic but ultimately built a very successful business. And the conversation was around this idea of prosperity and the ability to build a business.

And, you know, I’m six seven. My mom says I take her hand and I walk away and I say, mom, I’m going to be worth $25 million someday and I’m going to take care of you. Now, I don’t know if she remembers that because of the check I essentially wrote at that six year old point.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 14:49

That’s a pretty specific number.

Keith Burns: 14:52

It was right. And I don’t know if he said 25 million or he said ten, and I said 25 because I was trying to be better. But it was this idea that it was possible. Right. And I think if you looked at, you know, I was the first person in my family to go to college at Emory University.

That’s where I met Michael, my business partner. I was the first person in my family, obviously, to go to graduate school. I became a lawyer. I worked at, you know, two top 20 law firms. I worked at, arguably, you know, one of the best investment banks in the world.

And then over the last ten years, you know, built a small medical physics business into the largest medical physics company in America.

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