Jeremy Weisz

You know, you’ll see your first startup in 1969. Right? What What did you What were you doing before the start the first startup? or What did you think you were going to be doing?

Yossi Vardi

I knew what I’m going to do since since since maybe sixth grades. I knew that I’m going to be an engineer. And I knew that it I will deal with electronics. Because I was obsessed I was what is called today it’s like better foreigner. You know, when I was a kid, it was kind of psychological disaster syndrome. I was in there which means I couldn’t care less about football or girls when all my friends chased girls I chest vacuum tubes and I thought to myself what bunch of idiots you know why they’re interested in girls vacuum tubes are much more interesting. And I used to read the three books every day and they used to this assemble any anything which I so sometimes it’s create some really unpleasant situation when I left all kinds of objects at the home of my friends in in a bag after I was I was very good at this assembling it’s pity that I was not as good as in reassembling.

Jeremy Weisz

Um, your first startup was that the one you started with $5,000

Yossi Vardi

my first accident Just a minute.

And I it’s not that I put $5,000 this was a lot of money. We were six people that each one put $800. And we created the software company, which was the number the fifth software company in Israel, it was 1969 we were sure that we miss the boat. We missed the train. And it’s too late. And the market is being taken by the by the five by default earlier one but luckily, we were able to make it and in few years it became the biggest software housing as well Don’t be too impressed because it took us to get to 300 people to become the biggest software I was in Israel

Jeremy Weisz

was from that. What did you What did you do what to do at the time.

Yossi Vardi

I had very, very smart two childhood friends that learn with me in the high school they were geniuses in programming. And we decided that we are going to do a real time software this this word is not known anymore, because everything now is real time. But real time software at that time was software that was able to collect data from all kinds of sensors and in real time to process them and give results either in auto mutation or in defensive steps or in industrial systems. That the processing has to be very fast. So in order to respond to real time, which today’s elementary but at that time, when you used to run the software in batches you used to have a deck of cards, every line of code was equal to a card and you used to go with a shoebox full of Gods we posited in some IBM service center and went 24 hour and wait 24 hours until you got the result.

Jeremy Weisz

It’s it’s amazing to think of what the landscape was in 1969 as far as computers then and now what a computer what were we using and what did it cost at the time.

Yossi Vardi

It costs millions but it had the I remember it the Technion the computer Technion as you may know is the highest higher education technological, less schooling as well as the computer ahead 16 Kids Memories 16 K, not mag no cheek, K. And, and there was one in in Tel Aviv University with 32 K. So to do my master’s degree I got some time I could use on that machine, it was really very, very rudimentary and and part of the programming was out to compress everything to this very little tiny memory. I think the 111 smartphone today has more computing power than all accumulated computing power in the world at that time. Yeah.

Jeremy Weisz

But this was different times. It’s amazing. Yeah, somebody costs millions of dollars. Now it costs like $150 right now, today,

Unknown Speaker

somebody made the calculation that if these kinds of scaling would happen in the car industry, a car would cost $2 and will go in the speed of 75,000 miles per hour, something like this. And yet we take it for granted, you know, even think about it anymore about this wonder,

Jeremy Weisz

what were some of the worst lessons you learned? Then? How did you get customers like now, you know, people can go online, they can advertise online, they know. So there’s a multitude of ways to get customers? What were some of the lessons you learned at that time for getting traction?

Yossi Vardi

Yeah, first of all, I would like to start what the lesson about customer but the general lesson. The general lesson that I learned from this early years, you know, both my childhood and my adolescence, and the and the first few years I was doing thing that probably the one bless that a young person can get is to have a very high level of curiosity. I think curiosity is the biggest gift you can you can get it’s really if you’re a curious person, you’re never going to be bored and also it will lead you to all kinds of doors and avenues and pathways that you You really don’t know and the stank being curious thank curious I think I think it’s a

it’s a blessing you know, I cannot I cannot see until today a book without opening it you know and beginning to to try to understand what is the story and what it talks about etc etc. Regarding marketing Luckily, because of the talent of my friends we didn’t have problems of marketing you know, they the customer came to us because we really possessed something I don’t want to say unique but something which was needed that that time and then in general, I can tell you that my my biggest success in in the business or in the high tech which was my my investment in IC q which I have done for no fault of mine, you know, I really didn’t understand what I’m doing. Nevertheless, when we sold the company we became overnight a bunch of geniuses and blue eyes and long then tall and whatever. Whatever you want. But I CQ The product was distributed virally. Much like the pandemic we didn’t have to invest any effort we just were sitting like this watching the numbers with how george bush called it shock and oh with oh not with shock with Oh. And and we didn’t do any any marketing offering you know, we didn’t spend a penny in the marketing. The mother market just loved it. So I don’t think I’m marketing Maven. You know, marketing for me is always associated with very high cost. Which you remember what Mr. Godwin said about marketing it’s a bit more about advertising. He said, I know that I’m throwing to the garbage off of the money. The problem, I don’t know which half I’m throwing.

Jeremy Weisz

Yes, I’ve heard that.

Yossi Vardi

I love I love products which distribute themselves by because of the user experience, and therefore in all my work, and especially in the, in the internet space, my focus, and my emphasis was always to create a wonderful experience. And this will do the sales on its own. One example, you look, you look at the growth of the explosion of zoom, which is a platform with unbelievable user experience, they went from 10 million people to 300 million, I don’t think they invest that much in marketing, you know, they just responded to the call of the market, and the genius in product development is to develop a great user experience.

Jeremy Weisz

Yeah, so you would focus on you know, solving a problem and the actual user experience of the product.

Yossi Vardi

No, no, not solving the problem. But creating some such a wonderful, beautiful product that will resonate with the heart of the user, I cannot care less if it’s a self problem, or it doesn’t solve problem or it’s just have to provide the user with which this feeling, you know, that is, is happy, you know, and then and asked me how I come to how I came to this realization.

Jeremy Weisz

Yossi how did you come to this realization?

Yossi Vardi

Great, great question. I’m glad you asked it. So I will tell you, when we released the I CQ. You know, in the first day, maybe 40 people used it. And then in the next day, maybe 80 people have used it in the first month 2000 people use it in the second month, another 10,000 people use it. And seems the developers made the bet among yourself whether this product will ever get more than 3000 users. When we got to 10,000, we began to be surprised this was November 96, February 97, we had already a quarter of a million users. And Microsoft called us. And by July, we had 1 million users. And in September, we had 2 million users. And I was sitting and trying to figure out what’s going on here, how from where all these users are coming, you know, they came from nowhere, nobody approached whenever we didn’t do any advertising, any marketing any, any nothing. You know, it was like, like when you see at your own ends, and you ask for where all these ends came? And how do they know that they spilled sugar on the floor. And then, after we sold the ice CQ, for a very nice price, you mentioned it and bearing in mind that we had no revenues at that time, this was really nice, I came to the conclusion that if I can be better look, one similar product a week, not more one new product a week I can make. If I can replicate it, I we live in a nice way of making a living, you know. And I decided that I want to develop the universal, unified, unified, universal globalized theory of compelling user experience, because I came to the conclusion that what brought the users is the user experience, you know, they we gave them something that gave them a tremendous feeling today, by the way, I understand a little bit better, what attract them. And if you want remind me, I will answer you later. But nevertheless, I understood that we have to create a great user experience. Yeah. Then I said, Okay, I’m going to create the algorithm for great user experience. I spent three years I’m not joking. I have here next to me my library with shelves and shelves and shelves of books about every conceivable manifestation of user experience in every walk of life, you know, in, in spectacles, in food, insects, in travel, in hunting in storytelling, how you capture the heart of a person, and I try to to formulate this theory, you know, I divided the user experience into experiences into clusters, you know, the thrill of the hunting, this was my explanation for eBay. And I took, I took a successful company and I try to do reverse engineering what is there, and after three years, I published all my findings in a big in a big PowerPoint, which I call it the first 100 million users are always the most difficult ones, I once got once once you you get 100 million when it goes is and and they came also to the realization that once you are able to reduce something through an algorithm and to replicate it, the magic goes away, it become it become a commodity. It’s not it’s not exciting anymore, or it’s less exciting, it become benign. You still can enjoy it, but it’ll become benign. And I’ll give you one example from many. On the 25th of December 1878, 25,000 people gathered in Manhattan in lower Manhattan and went on a train journey of two hours to a small village in New Jersey called Menlo Park and you have to guess why they have done it

Jeremy Weisz

Why?

Yossi Vardi

Why? Because it was the first evening It was Christmas evening that Thomas Alva Edison lifted lifted is the word lifted his laboratory in electric light and instead of this smoky dark weak gas light all of the sudden the whole building blue you know today you go to your office the you switch the light on and you don’t give a shit you’re not impressed with it you take it for granted but right to spend the night in your office when you ever electricity break. So one thing one realization was that it cannot be same thing by the way it was instant messaging you know when we just released it whenever we had a disruption of the service we got kisses and emails and otherwise we got emails I CQ I love you etc etc. Second realization is that it’s more or less impossible to develop the the algorithm and the algorithm work like this I’m I’m certain you’re I cannot prove it. I’m sure that God every now and then go down to earth and goes among the sleeping kids. And from time to time time is take how you call this. This thing we hold in his hand was what do you call this? like a like a Water King?

Jeremy Weisz

like a like a wand? Like scepter?

Yossi Vardi

Maybe Yeah. And he touched the shoulders of kcca kid His name is wolkind Wolfgang Amadeus he will tell him you will have a unique talent to write music which will hypnotize people and will make them happy and will make them joyful and then we find another kid His name is Steve Spielberg and he tell him you will grow up and you will know how to write stories and present them in movies. Which will be very compelling. And then you see another kid, his name is Pablo. And he tell him, you will know how to paint in a way that nobody else know how to paint, you know, the ability to resonate with the heart of user is such a good gift. And it’s such unique that since then, you know, I’m very invested in 86, Internet companies, and few and few in other spaces. By the way, you mentioned that they invested in 100 companies, you forgot to mention that at least 30 of them didn’t go anywhere, they busted, they disappeared, they, they gave me a lot of headaches and shame. And they just proved that my success, if any, was just an interrupt interruption in the old chain of failures, you know, through my life, but that’s a different, different story. But nevertheless. So there my conclusion, if you see somebody who is uniquely talented, remember, this is like finding gold nugget, gold nugget nugget, you call it right? In the mind, don’t leave it, just take it, you have something to do with him, you don’t have taking taking take the talented people to walk with your provider, they’re not assets. Because you don’t want to spend your life being surrounded by assets. So we might give you, you know, a whole life experience in 10 minutes.

Jeremy Weisz

You know, Yossi the So the conclusion from that talk 100 million users your long study of great user experience. Would you say though, once you figure out the algorithm, it, it can’t be replicated.

Yossi Vardi

I didn’t figure the algorithm because there is no right. Experiment, you know, the algorithm is built in the wiring of the people. I think if you will ask Mozart how to write a beautiful music, he will not be able to explain it. It will say I go to the piano and I begin to play and I think about it and yeah, we know, hey, we know today why these experiences are creating these kinds of reaction. And this has to do with secretion of dopamine in the brain and addiction and then the different explanations, but but to have the talent, how to create all these things we don’t know. And by the way, when I was in the software, we didn’t three got the screen as a substrate to express user experience on it. But once the HTML came and the 64,000 color scheme and the ability to to use the screen in order to put graphics etc. Software became also a work of art. Or let me rephrase it software can become a work of art. I’ll give you an example. You know, again, look at Zoom I think that tile paradigm with you we can put 49 people and you can see all of them in one glance, this is a work of art because it creates such a such experience. And if you want to know the experience, wait until you are joining a zoom with 49 people and then turn the screen off and you will see the difference is in your whole whole existence.

Jeremy Weisz

Yossi you mentioned like right before we talked you were talking to the CIO at Zoom, what was something that they shared with you? That was interesting,

Yossi Vardi

I interview him for an event we have we have a suite called cyber tech. And if I tell you now what what he shared with me then you will not go to the event. So you better go to the event. And and say but I can’t tell you the first question I asked him. I asked him and if you want the answer, you know you go. You go to see I asked him how is it what is the feeling to be part of a team which changed forever the life of seven and a half billion of us because I think what zoom was able to provide that this time of Corona when nobody could leave home and definitely not flying etc I was something which is by far then just the technological platform, you know, they were able to move, they were enabling people to connect with each other, which is really something something big, huge.

Jeremy Weisz

Um, you mentioned curiosity, and I’m wondering people out there who have, you know, kids what did you do with your children to instill curiosity and maybe just talk about some of the stuff that you did with to instill in your children

Yossi Vardi

Well, I can tell you that since very young age I try to expose them to as many as many different kinds of experiences you know from subscribing Of course you don’t do it anymore i think you know, to National Geographic magazines and take them to a museum and my oldest kid I used to drag him when he was when he was a high school not before High School even 78 leave me to my my business meetings at that time I was in charge of some of the chemical industry in Israel and he used to drive with me to see the plant I used to tell him you see it and you attend the meeting and you don’t talk you just absorb and then after the meeting Ask me whatever you want and I used to purchase for them and seek Lopez etc etc. and and toys you have to and books you have to expose them to as many different and unrelated unrelated things you know, you have to to challenge their synopsis I think it’s very very important by the way science show today that smoking kids you know age of three, two if the kids are being being provoked with lots of things and different things and toys etc their brain is developing in a much richer way then if they are just spent time in the crib doing nothing so keep them busy.

Jeremy Weisz

What was your your son had a role in? ICQ?

Yossi Vardi

He was one of the inventors and one of the CO and the co founders you know the in America they have this this expression of this lucky sperm club. You are familiar with this expression Okay, or it’s not

Jeremy Weisz

politically it’s totally fine you can say whatever you like.

Yossi Vardi

Okay, so the lucky spell usually the lucky sperm club goes go down you know from father to son in my case it was like salmon I’m upstream lucky sperm. Because he and three friends of him came to me one day and say they have an idea they need funding at that time. I was already funding startups and they wanted funding and because of my guilt feelings, you know, I gave them the fast funding for what they said we cannot tell you it’s confidential which give you an idea how much a being trusted by by the by my family. But he was one of the four guys who invented this web white instant messaging if you want.

Jeremy Weisz

So his pitch was we need money but we can’t tell you what it is or what it’s for.

Yossi Vardi

Yeah, this was the No no, we need the money but we cannot trust you. To tell you what we are going to do with it.

Jeremy Weisz

I love it. So as far as The ICQ goes, you know, you mentioned investing, Yossi and and I mentioned the Nolan Bushnell situation. What’s that?

Yossi Vardi

I have a story. Go ahead. Yeah. But first of all in the beginning of your talk, I didn’t understand why you mentioned Mobileye. Mobileye, yeah. You mentioned Mobileye, Yeah. in what context? In the

Jeremy Weisz

context of, you know, when I was talking about movies he talked about, you know, right now, kind of, to your point where you beat you mentioning, you become the blond hair, blue eye after you sell and everything, you’re a genius. But what I love about the the journey, is there’s a lot of it’s not just ups, right, there’s a lot of downs in that journey, even though there may be a big exit in the end. So it’s not an easy journey.

Yossi Vardi

Yeah, but I don’t know why you mentioned Mobileye. But well, let me tell you a story about I’m sorry, yeah, I it’s about Mobileye. So I will tell you about Waze and Mobileye, in my mind, it’s now less confused. Okay, so first of all is Waze. Waze are not nice people I have to tell you that you know, it’s not not pleasant for me to say it in the front of all your audience but there are not a decent people and I will tell you why I’m saying it you know, they offered me to invest in Waze that the at a valuation of $5 million and I asked them what is Waze they told me Waze is a application that drivers are plotting the maps that are drawing the maps according they’re driving, they find new roads and new street names and updating maps. And they asked them the valuation $35 million, I told them, You want me to invest in $5 million in order to invest to enable bunch of amateurs to draw maps look to be totally totally crazy, because I remember the map building that the British government left in Tel Aviv in, in New Delhi, every corner of Lincoln, it was like three storeys, huge building where they used to draw maps by hand, etc. And this guy thought they will throw the, the rug from underneath, so I sent them to hell. Three years later, I read that they’re going to sell this cockeyed application to Google for $1 billion. So I said, Okay, I called I called them and I said, Hey, you remember you offered me to, to invest in the company, and I refuse Okay, so I reconsider, then I’m happy to invest in $5 million. They told me to go to hell. decent people. I tell you about Mobileye.

So Mobileye, which I was not involved, like they didn’t offer me to inverse, they just had what they’re doing. Mobileye is selling the company for $15 billion. Now $15 billion is a lot of money, even for SoftBank. You know, it’s really big chunk of money, and yet the author Whoa, not the leading, the highest circulation newspaper in Israel calls me in the morning when it was announced and tell me Yossi is as a person who made one of the most famous exits in Israel. What is the advice you can you can give the Mobileye founder so I told them, this is not the right question, considering the fact that my exit was $400 million, and their exit was $15 billion, which is like almost 40 times as much the right question what they can tell me not. So that was my Mobileye, my Mobileye story and I can tell you the number of great deals, which I missed is almost as embarrassing as the list of lousy deals, which I didn’t miss. So I developed my career on three legs You know, one good deals which I didn’t miss one shitty deals which I didn’t miss and what when one great deals which I did miss, that’s the sad story of my business life.

Jeremy Weisz

Um, was there a bigger miss than Waze

Yossi Vardi

that you have Yes, there was a bigger Miss. And then you have to tell them, they didn’t ask you the code that I did request to that you will ask me this question. But it came very appropriate. So. So I tell the story on the radio the day of when Waze was sold. And I tell the story, and when I get in the afternoon, a call from a friend of mine by the name of your Yossi Langotsky, or Yossi Langotsky is a very well known Israeli gentleman, and he was a geologist, and he is responsible to a great respect to the discovery of the huge gas reserves the offshore of Israel. I mean, he maintained since the 70s, that there is a huge deposit of gas in the offshore of Tel Aviv and he was kind of Fufu by everybody until somebody was willing to go into real and they found this mammoth gas reserves. So this is your Yossi Langotsky. And he called me and he told me, Bobby, why you are bragging about the money you’re making? In ways, you remember that I asked you to invest $5 million in in the gas thrilling, and you just send me to hell would you invest? That time, you would make a quarter of a billion dollars or something like this? So you should. So you should mention Waze you should mention how stupid you were in love investing in them. So I told him, Yossi From now on, this is what I will do. And here you gave me an opportunity to try it. That’s right.

Jeremy Weisz

You know, you mentioned as investor there is investments, you make some succeed, some don’t succeed. I’m curious of the ones you wrote off, you’re like, it’s just not working. You know, those are not going to go well. But they ended up having great exits. I wonder if you talk about one of those where you thought it was you kind of wrote it off in your portfolio. But it turned around and did have a great exit? And maybe what? What was it that turned it around?

Yossi Vardi

Yeah, I can’t, I cannot, I cannot recall right now I have, I have to go and find one to use it in the portfolio of examples. But definitely, definitely sometimes sad, sometimes a company which is not going anywhere, all of the sudden. Like, last minute, big success happened to an Israeli company few few months ago that they almost wrote it off, and then it went public for over a billion dollar. But this is I wouldn’t say that this is this is a common. A common one I tell you what is common is guys are going to create a company and then after a few months, see that they have to recalculate the trajectory that the market is not as they assume the product should be different than that during early pivot. So this is very common, I would say that every company almost every successful company made. One people think it’s in its life, it’s much harder to to do something for five years. And then to go into it people though, it’s also happen now. My investment philosophy or Now if this is the lifeline, and the value line of a company. You have many, many regions where you can enter, increase the value and go out my sweet spot. And I’m not suggesting this is the only sweet spot but my sweet spot is to be the very first investor. I always want to be the very first investor, which people think it’s the highest risk. I don’t agree with it, but I don’t want to build to it. Now, maybe I will say I don’t agree to it because it’s a very high risk for one company. But if you do it for portfolio, it’s enough that few companies succeed. And they take care of the other companies which don’t succeed. This is the secret. The problem is that every time you close the company, you feel up, punch in your belly so people cannot stand this. punches. They don’t count the 10 small punches equal one big success, no, they say 10 punches is 10 punches and one success is offsetting one punch while from economic point of view, one success offset can offset 50 punches if the success is, is big. So my my investment philosophy is what they call a worked on. They teach you for years, and then they call it highly diversified. High beta, high volatility portfolio management. And I call it spray and pray. So, so this is this is my, my investment philosophy and now I don’t remember anymore, what was the

Jeremy Weisz

when you when you when someone comes to you, let’s say, you know, you’re going to be the first investor, what are you looking for, in that particular person or company?

Unknown Speaker

Okay, so first of all, in the beginning of my investments, I thought the idea is important, then I realized that the idea is overrated. And today, I know the idea. That doesn’t mean a thing. It’s not about idea, it’s about execution. And execution, in order to get great education, integrated execution, you need very talented people, you need people probably with three, three properties. First of all, they have to be talented as we discuss it before. Second, they have to be passionate. Because what people will do for passion, you cannot buy with all the money in the world. And third, they have to be nice in order to be able to build a team around them. And you don’t want to deal with assholes. You don’t want to deal with non ethical people. So it’s the team, the team and the team. If you have good people, you should go and invest. According to my my strategy, which is not suitable for everybody. For instance, this strategy is good for Angels that it’s not good for VCs. Because if VCs will go only to be the first investor, they will end up investing in 2000 companies which they will not be able to manage.

Jeremy Weisz

Yossi you mentioned there was a talk I listened to in the in the opening of that talk. You talked about how 140 missiles were shot at Israel. I don’t know if it was that they that day that week, that month, but you know, I’m talking about what what’s the, you know, the climate so people get an idea of, you know, your building company, but there’s all this other stuff, because you’re living in Israel.

Yossi Vardi

Yeah, I mentioned what your the quote you are taking is from a certain evening, in one of our conflicts with the Gaza Strip, where 140 missiles were launched. In one day, maybe 15 of them were launched in the same minute in order to avoid the Iron Dome. And you can see on YouTube, a video on how these Iron Dome missiles are interested in intercepting with all the 15 or the 15 the size. But the point is that this video was taken from a wedding which took place just under all this besides flying on the way and I mentioned it in order to to illustrate one particular one particular question to do with the character of Israel is because I’m asking I’m asked time and again, what we put in the water or what we give to smoke to our kids, that all of them are so passionate about creating startups you know, which is kind of kind of national, national obsession and my suggestion that it has to do not with education or technology or government support all these things which are usually being mentioned and they are important But it’s a cultural phenomena, this is cultural phenomena, what what the people want to do, how they behave, how they act, what motivate them, you know, how they mobilize themselves, etc, etc. And there is well after all is a small community, 9 million people which feel or use to feel strong, giant destiny, but this looking back, it looked to me like three generation in a way because then came the corona and change the whole the whole landscape and I am quite worrying about the corona about the social effect of the corona about lots of lots of things. I’m really very concerned unfortunately.

Jeremy Weisz

About what specifically

Yossi Vardi

about many, many think about first of all about the destiny of the people who are not involved in the high tech you know, because the corona crash crash in a very cruel way, the weakest members of society. And the government’s are not standing up to this challenge, you know, that the corona take the middle class and turn them to poor people and take the poor people who even don’t have a voice at least the middle class can protest can speak and lobby can write to their Congressman, but there is a whole all layers of society of people, which are very weak. And the corona the corona put them in Impossible. Impossible situation? And I don’t I don’t see I don’t see the solution. I don’t see the government is coming with a solution. I’m really worried about these people.

Jeremy Weisz

That’s why you’re worried cuz you don’t see. You’re not sure what will what will have to happen.

Yossi Vardi

I’m worried about all kinds of processes, which are now going on, but I’m not sure that I want to share my grievance with your out in soon. I don’t know them. But we perceive me as a joker, you know, I guess.

Jeremy Weisz

You know, one thing you mentioned at some point is, you know, mentioning the resilience of the Israeli people, as you said they’re fueled by guilt and panic.

Yossi Vardi

Yeah, this is not the situation people usually. Yeah,

Jeremy Weisz

got it. You know, first of all, you say I want to be the first one to thank you. This has been tremendous. I one last question before we end, but just thank you for sharing your experience, your knowledge, your lessons, your jokes. And last, last two questions are one what’s been a low moment? And what’s been a proud moment for you over over the years.

Yossi Vardi

A low moment, I’m not sure. Look, low moments are always associated with some sickness in the family. Unless you want me to tell you about low moment in business, but what you know, all of us, all of us are experiencing this sometime. Difficult family difficult moments. And this was also in my case. I moments you know, life life, pampered me and gave me in some in some strange way. Many, many moments of joy in my, in my career in my life, etc. I’m not going to begin to, to, to count all of them because it will sound as bragging. So we will show the living in kind of a mystery, let’s say,

Jeremy Weisz

I guess you know, maybe low moment could be business. It could be family, but I know you’ve had your hand in working as a I don’t know if you call it a diplomat in your career, but maybe talk about this really Palestinian relationship what because you’ve done some things in government to.

Yossi Vardi

in government, I used to run the Ministry of natural resources, it was called Ministry of development. And I was chairman of Israel chemicals, which is the time it was the holding company of the chemical industry. And they also created the Ministry of, of energy, but somehow I participated in for peace negotiations, one with the Egyptians, once in the, with the Jordanian swans with the Palestinians, and once with the Syrian one with the Syrians. And no doubt that one of the I moment were signing the peace agreement with the Egyptians and signing the peace agreement with the Jordanians, which was where like, great, great, great moments. And unfortunately, I don’t see the at least currently the negotiations with the Palestinians going anywhere, which I think it’s a high time right now already. 53 years 5650 from 67 7080 9050 5040 years. And I think it’s high time to resolve this conflict. resolved some bigger conflict in the past. So I don’t think it’s a question of a moment or low moment, but it’s something which, which we have to do. Yeah.

Jeremy Weisz

Yossi, thank you so much. I really appreciate your time and sharing everything and everyone. Hope you enjoyed and got a lot of nuggets. Thanks, Yossi.

Unknown Speaker

Thank you very much for your patience.