Victoria Song 2:56

Yeah, so Bending Reality. It’s, it’s kind of an allusion to Steve Jobs, reality distortion fields. And I really believe that, you know, we all have a different lens on reality, but kind of like a fish cannot see the water, we don’t see the lens we have. And a lot of us are very limited in what we think the consciousness is capable of. And, you know, things that I call appearing supernatural abilities are things we actually have access to. But because of the lens we have on reality, we’re not tapping into the full capacity of our consciousness. So bending reality includes things like being able to tap into that zero point field and create outcomes like selling your company for $4 billion. It includes being able to tap into the creative downloads that artists and geniuses claimed to access or some a lot of writers get that with fiction stories. And it’s similar to the state that have an athlete’s called being in the zone. When you know, a basketball player is about to make the shot and the hoop appears bigger and time slows down. And it feels easier to make the shot. So these are states that I helped my client get into, and all examples of what it looks like to bend reality.

Jeremy Weisz 4:11

What made you decide to write the book?

Victoria Song 4:14

It really was a creative download, honestly, because I wasn’t intending to write a book. And then in a conversation with my brother, I was engaging with him on what I help my clients with and my brother’s five years older, I’d never seen him more engaged, listening to his little sister, than in that moment, and I just said, You know what, if I were to write a book today, this is what I would write it about. And then once I spoke those words, the chapters came through and then within a week, and within a week I had or felt like the book had written me. So it was a download and example of what it looks like to bend reality. And yeah, that’s why.

Jeremy Weisz 4:51

You know, I want to talk about, you know, what you do now and what took you off of the VC path. Right, if you look at your background, it’s pretty amazing from London School of Economics, Yale University, Harvard Business School, you go on and, you know, are successful in the venture capital world. So all, you know, signs point to continuing on that path. Right. So I want to talk about the VC world. But then I do want to hear about what changed that trajectory, maybe maybe just that’s outside looking in. And maybe, you know, this was the master plan all along, but, but talk about the VC world, and in some of the interesting things that you did there.

Victoria Song 5:39

Yeah, so I was very fortunate to enter very young, so I started investing when I was 23. And it was at a time no one really, you know, grows up thinking I want to be a venture capitalist. But when I was 23, I kind of just fell into it. So my first internship was I worked at Goldman and I was working in finance. And I found that that work was using really one parts of my talent, like it was very analytical, very data driven. And I found that that was not really my strongest, strong like, my strongest quality, in fact, and when I looked at venture capital, I realized, like, Wow, this is so analytical, still a lot of things I love about finance. But there’s this added creativity and innovation and people skills, honestly, of being able to look at someone and tell quite quickly, like what I think that person’s capability and potential is. And if I don’t get if I want to bet on them being a really talented entrepreneur, so I felt like VC was really a great combination of my skill sets. And I entered it, you know, not knowing what it was exactly entailed. But very soon, I was, as you saw quite successful, my first deal, we invested about a million dollars, and we made back $40 million from that investment. And I found very early on that one of my skill sets is spotting talent. And I grew up in a family of entrepreneurs. So I also realized that I’ve always had front row seats to what it took to really build a company. And so I could spot that in, yeah, and early stage founders before they even had a product, because I was investing at the seed stage where they really just have a concept and a pitch deck. So a lot of it is really betting on the people.

Jeremy Weisz 7:31

I want to hear about what you saw in that particular deal. But talk about your family. What kind of businesses did your family have? And what did you learn from them?

Victoria Song 7:44

Mhmm. Yeah, my dad is an engineer. So first of all, my parents are preschool sweethearts. They met preschool. And yeah, it is really wild. And, and they’ve always had businesses together. And even today, they run a company together. So my dad starts FinTech companies. And so currently, he has a business that helps banks detect money laundering, fraud, terrorist financing. So he’s really like the brains behind the algorithms and the AI technology to achieve that. So I was really born and raised into a very technical family and surrounded by science and data driven decision making and entrepreneurship. And you know, they’re also immigrants, they came here from Taiwan. So also just really understanding what it takes to push yourself outside your comfort zone every day on all levels. And so in some ways, I think entrepreneurship is the ultimate growth tool. Because you are always pushing yourself outside your comfort zone.

Jeremy Weisz 8:49

Do you feel like you have an added edge to them by being immigrants?

Victoria Song 8:55

I definitely believe that, when you grow up, seeing how things, obvious things that we take for granted can be done a different way. You already are aware, like, oh, thinking outside the box, like we do it differently in Taiwan than we do in America. And so just sort of, yeah, just immediately, you start to see that there’s different perspectives different ways. No, right or wrong, just more different. Yeah, different options.

Jeremy Weisz 9:20

What, what did you see in that deal? You saw something when you invested that, you know, around a million dollars and it obviously had a great return? What did you see in the founders or the company early on?

Victoria Song 9:34

Yeah, it’s interesting because the founders are very young. Jeff Seibert, he was the only background references I could find on him or from his professors, cause he was like, basically straight out of school. There were hardly even any work references I could do and so it was truly a bet on Wow, this is young talent. They don’t have experience necessarily setting out doing what they’re about to do. But so brilliant. All the professors said this is someone who is bound to be successful, very intelligent. But mostly it was the combination. Wayne Chang was his co founder, it was both the technical capability. But then Wayne had a lot of serial entrepreneurship experience and really handled the business side of things. So sometimes you find co founders where you’re like, wow, there’s no redundancy here. You truly are perfectly complimentary, perfectly compatible. And it was really the engineering talent with the business combination that gave me the yeah, the assurance that these first timers were going to really be successful.

Jeremy Weisz 10:38

Yeah, so I’d love to hear your thought process. So one thing is you’re looking at the team. And they check that box. And then what was the other thing that you looked at to decide?

Victoria Song 10:51

Yeah, I think, luckily, they already had some early data that showed that developers were using their tool. So it’s called Crashlytics. And it was a free tool. So in that sense, they hadn’t proven revenue yet. But they were getting huge conversions on downloads, it was, you know, quickly became download into over a million apps. And so when you find something where it solves a pain point, so we call it like, pain meds versus a vitamin, it’s like, oh, this is solving a real pain point of developers versus a nice to have. So that was also something that I saw and the market opportunity at that time, mobile apps are exploding. So it was clear that the market opportunity was large as well.

Jeremy Weisz 11:39

You know, I want to you hit on something you grew up and your parents are entrepreneurs, you’re an entrepreneur. And there was something I was reading about you about achieving peak without burning out. Okay. And this is, you know, I would think a huge problem with launch burners, hard charging, and just doing whatever they need to do. So, I’d love for you to talk about achieving peak without burning out.

Victoria Song 12:05

Absolutely. Yeah. It’s like the Holy Grail. How do you do that? And so for one—

Jeremy Weisz 12:11

You gotta buy the book. I’m sorry. No.

Victoria Song 12:13

Yeah, well, you know what, while we’re there, I read him, I want to share a tool, actually, that is from the book that addresses your questions. So I’m just going to ask you right now, in this moment, you can do this, and your listeners can do this, which is just feel into imagining you’re scared. If you’re feeling threatened. You’re feeling powerless. I know. It’s kind of funny to do this live with you right now. But yeah, allow yourself to actually go there. And for a moment, like what do you notice in your body when you just imagine feeling scared, threatened, helpless?

Jeremy Weisz 12:47

Tightening up?

Victoria Song 12:49

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So this is a state that is called contraction. And, you know, in this state, you said, You felt tight, maybe your chest was tight. Maybe you felt like shallow breathing. You know, this is a state that a lot of entrepreneurs without realizing are constantly in a lot of humans live in the state. And how much inspiration, creativity and possibility do you have access to from here?

Jeremy Weisz 13:15


Victoria Song 13:16

Yeah, exactly.

Jeremy Weisz 13:17

It’s the only focus point. Really?

Victoria Song 13:19

Exactly. Yeah. And so from this closed off place, we tend to feel impatient, judgmental, we, you know, are very quick to activate our fight or flight response. And this is Yeah, this is a state that nobody wants to be in. But however, a lot of us are very used to, accustomed to living in the state. And then now I want you to imagine feeling open, trusting, grateful, you know, been powerful. And just notice, what do you notice in your body?

Jeremy Weisz 13:48


Victoria Song 13:50

Mmhmm. Yeah, exactly. And if you just turn it up, and like really feel okay, relaxed. You might notice your chest opening up, maybe your breaths are deeper and slower, straighter posture, feeling more grounded?

Jeremy Weisz 14:04

Yeah. Is there certain things that you tell people to think of in that thing? Or do they naturally just think of some moment or something they’re grateful for?

Victoria Song 14:18

Yeah, if your question. So now that I laid that groundwork, the second state is called expansion. In this state, you probably feel like, Oh, I have access to more possibility creativity. So after you’ve established these two states, your next question is, well, how do you get yourself out of contraction? And how do you live more in expansion? So one of the things that I help my clients do is we figure out what are those contraction trigger points for them? You know, so, for some, it’s the sound of their inner critic. For some, it’s certain patterns that remind them of, you know, in childhood, I have one client who’s like, I don’t know why I get so angry when I don’t get my way. And then we realize at any time, he feels powerless, like the deals not going the way he wants to go, it triggers this feeling of, you know, even getting in fights as a kid and feeling overwhelmed and like, Oh my gosh, I need to protect myself, I have to defend myself, like his life was on the line. So part of it is identifying these patterns and triggers that set you into contraction. And a lot of people without realizing it are driven by that need to prove themselves, you know, which is very relatable, but is behind burnout and is behind the stress and anxiety that puts people in a contraction. And then on the flip side, if you want to access expansion, this will sound really familiar, because now you understand why so many coaches out there emphasize the importance of values, living on mission on purpose, doing things that are in their zone of genius, because when you do those things, you start to feel tapped in expanded on purpose. So what’s it like Dr. Weisz, tell me something that you love to do? What’s something that feels like a 10? When you do it?

Jeremy Weisz 16:04

Um, I like playing basketball.

Victoria Song 16:07

Okay, great. So imagine the feeling when you’re playing basketball, and just feel like in your current body, I can already see your smile on your face, you’re starting to feel excited, happy, like all of that is the fuel that I want my clients, the entrepreneurs to be accessing when they’re doing their work. And so to answer that question, if your first one of like, Well, what do you look for in founders I really looking for is the problem they’re trying to solve? Does it bring that smile to your face, that you just had the excitement, the thrill where it feels like play where it doesn’t feel like you have to be motivated to do work, you know, and so, feeling like we’re in our zone of genius is really feeling like a kid at play, for some people that’s playing basketball, you know, is the game they love. You know, for other people, as engineers, it’s solving technical problems that lights them up. And so that’s another thing I really look for is, are they doing something that feels like play for them, because that’s what gives them access to expansion.

Jeremy Weisz 17:05

So it’s, you know, first, you know, just recognizing those contractions, if we don’t recognize it, then we can’t, you know, it’s this unconscious, and we can’t do anything about it. So recognizing it first, and then having the actual tools to create more of an expansion so that, you know, we can get out of those contractions quicker.

Victoria Song 17:26

Absolutely. And really, like the rate at which we expand is capped by how much we’re releasing our contraction. So if we don’t release our contraction, we might have a temporary high of feeling really great. But then gravity’s fierce, and those stories and limiting beliefs are going to get you right away, you know, after that peak experience. And so it really is the combination of removing contraction and stabilizing expansion that starts to create, like a new default state for you.

Jeremy Weisz 17:58

I know for you, hiring coaches, yourself, it’s been important. Who were you consider some of your mentors, whether it’s, they’ve actually mentored you? Or maybe it’s just books that you actually love that have taught you?

Victoria Song 18:16

That’s a great question. Yeah, I think, you know, I have so many coaches, I’ve hired over 24 coaches, and I’m still going, and I find the work is just a daily practice. And so I think for me today, what I look for in my mentors is someone who is living a life and work that, that inspires me, because I think in the past, I found people who were maybe more focused on finance or business like, you know, CEO of a company would have been a mentor, or the idea of Steve Jobs would have been a role model. Whereas today, I’m really looking at who they are holistically, because I think, if you just want someone’s business success, but their personal life is falling apart, and they don’t know how to hold a romantic relationship, you don’t really want to replicate what they’re doing. And so today, when I look for coaches, or mentors, or teachers, I’m really looking at individuals who are living it in every area of their life.

Jeremy Weisz 19:20

Yeah, that makes sense. So someone may achieve the pinnacle in like a silo in business, but if they’re on their third marriage, it may you won’t really want someone who’s holistically embodies the values you want all around.

Victoria Song 19:35

Absolutely, yeah. Otherwise, I might to have a successful business at the expense of my personal relationship.

Jeremy Weisz 19:42

You know, I’m going down the rabbit hole of personal development. And I know you talk a little bit about you know, there’s a difference between going down that journey and going down kind of the bending reality journey. What do you see as some of the differences?

Victoria Song 20:00

Yeah, I think and I fell prey to this as well, which is that when I started this work, I kept feeling like the answer was outside of me. And I just needed more information, more knowledge, more teachers, and it can feel like a never ending journey. You know, there’s Siddhartha has a good book on this where it’s like at and familiar with that.

Jeremy Weisz 20:21

I love that book. Yeah.

Victoria Song 20:22

Yeah, it’s like you can be searching forever, you know, and—

Jeremy Weisz 20:26

It’s a short book, too. I like that.

Victoria Song 20:27

Yeah, exactly. And, so that is what it looks like to go down the rabbit hole where you’re just constantly seeking, we’re seeking actually, in my belief is just a form of contraction. Like when we haven’t yet accepted who we are, and are in touch with our essence, that sets us off into this striving, seeking fixing, which are just different versions of contraction. And so when I say, you know, get out of the rabbit hole and just bend reality, what I mean is, start to realize that the internal state that I just shared with you is cultivated from internally, you know, the answer is not outside of you, it’s not going to come from some potion, lotion, or pill, it’s really going to come from you learning Oh, okay, I can cultivate the state within me. And from which my actions, actions that come from expansion look very different from actions that come from contraction, choices that you make look very different. And it all starts from cultivating this internal state. And, you know, what I’ve seen in my work is that there’s often a lot of interest in attending these peak expansion events, right, whether it’s a coaching program, or a workshop, where these participants go, and they feel empowered, confident, capable, motivated. And when they leave, you know, they didn’t remove any of their contractions. So when they leave the event, they’re immediately confronted with life, and with all of the things that have kept them in contraction. And then their solution is, oh, I need to go enroll in another program, I need to go find the next workshop. And then you can almost become addicted to these peak experiences, because you don’t realize that you’re still limited by the contractions you haven’t released.

Jeremy Weisz 22:12

Yeah, so it’s, it’s kind of relying on external, instead of just more internalizing it, and in doing more internal work, is that—

Victoria Song 22:21

Yeah, yeah, I think, you know, that’s a great way of thinking about it. And another way of putting it, you know, when we look at Siddhartha story is like, really connect to who you are. And can there be more acceptance and appreciation for the truth of who you are. I think as an overachiever, as a recovering overachiever, I’ve been taught that what matters is what’s impressive. And what’s impressive is what’s hard to get, not what do I love, not what matters to me, not what what lights me up what matters to the world, that really earning applause and approval through doing something impressive. And then obviously, our school systems don’t support this, because we learn to associate work with boredom and things that we’re not interested in having to learn topics we don’t care about. So then most of us are used to working jobs that we’re quite bored of, because we, we, that’s what we think school was, and work is, you know, and our parents, obviously, were just preparing us for the world out there, but also wanted us to choose professions that were going to be financially secure, which meant, again, going after something that maybe you don’t love, maybe doesn’t feel like play maybe doesn’t feel on purpose.

Jeremy Weisz 23:29

What made you change paths? And maybe you were always going to change paths. But from my perspective, like I mentioned earlier, it looks like there’s this trajectory. And then, to me, it looks like a total 180.

Victoria Song 23:43

Absolutely. Yeah, that makes sense. So I always like one main thing, which is, cuz some people call it like an empty success syndrome, where it’s like you achieved what you thought was going to make you happy. And you weren’t. That was a huge piece of it. And I think speaking to as mentors point, I looked around at my colleagues, and the most successful, wealthiest, high status individuals around me and none of them were happy, the work that they were doing and look, I’m not, I mean, yes, luckily, I learned this really early, because I looked at my clients, some of them who, you know, were running multi billion dollar companies, and some of them were the most miserable in their, in their careers in their lives. And so—

Jeremy Weisz 24:24

Why do you think that is?

Victoria Song 24:27

Well, it’s, I think it’s related to this concept that we’ve been talking about how a lot of what’s been driving them has been wanting to prove something wanting to prove they matter in the world. And that’s a fuel that’s toxic, it’s really motivated by a contraction, right being in that constant state of striving. And, and I think for a lot of people, they don’t realize that until they call it like a midlife crisis, you know, and they will wake up to that. So I say have your quarter life awakening so that you can say you can skip the midlife crisis. And so yeah, I think I had my quarter life awakening, there was actually about that age that I realized a bit of an existential awakening around this. And I looked at my job, and I was like, you know, as much fun as I’m having working with entrepreneurs, do I really think my biggest contribution is going to be helping wealthy people create more wealth, you know, as a venture capitalist? And they kind of realized that no, that wasn’t it for me. And so in my current work, I know it sounds like it’s a 180. But for me, I feel like I’m still able to support startups and entrepreneurs, I only work with founders who are working on missions I believe in and I want to amplify in the world. So I’m able to be even more selective now as a coach versus as an investor, because it’s not just about making money anymore. It’s about impact for me. So yeah, for me, it was like keeping what I loved about VC, which was the innovation, the startups, the founders, but getting to bring all of me to the table. And really what puts me into expansion, I was able to be fueled now by my passion for what I do my mission and purpose in life. And really, it feels like play for me the current work that I do,

Jeremy Weisz 26:08

Victoria, what did you consider? I know, now, it seems obvious, you know, your leadership advisory helped these companies, but I am imagining when you’re like, I need something else, you probably explored maybe in your head or on paper, a few different options, maybe? What did you consider at the time? Yeah, I could see you also starting a company for yourself.

Victoria Song 26:30

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. So um, two things that I considered. So the first one, because I was in the VC lane, and the venture capital in my head was thinking, Oh, I’ll start my own fund, I’ll start my own fund. And the mission of that fund will be backing founders that I think have missions I want to see exists in the world. So for purpose businesses, not just for profit, that was the most obvious solution that I had to my existential awakening, because I was still in that world of investing. So that’s what I left thinking I was going to do. And I, you know, I recommend anyone who’s considering a pivot and their career to give them time, themselves, the time and space to really reflect, because you kind of have to detox, a lot of who you think you are what you think you’ve been doing before, you can really tune into that inner voice that’s like, oh, there’s actually a lot more possibilities than just start another fund, you know, and so I gave myself, maybe about six months off between the VC and my next thing. And the other thing that I started because this is starting to give you a taste of my path, which is I started a company called C.A.M.P., which is an acronym for creativity, art, movement, and play. And it was a solution to what I was just sharing, which is that adults have become so disconnected. And a lot of the play and the inner child that I’m referring to brings up what lights you up. And so I was really excited to awaken that in adults. So I started going into companies like Google and BCG and McKinsey who had team budgets that they were currently spending on fancy dinners or drinking networking events. And I brought creativity, art, move and play. I brought things like improv and Turia making, and painting and making things with your hands and created like a whole new way to bond with their teammates. But that was allowing them to tap into that inner child. So that was my other idea, which was more aligned to then what I’m currently doing, which is finding combination of all of the above.

Jeremy Weisz 28:33

So that kind of morphed into what you’re doing now. But you were doing those with the different companies and then you actually enjoyed working with the individuals. What you’re—

Victoria Song 28:46

Yeah, so I was organizing play. And as part of that, for adults was I was bringing in a lot of the self development principles. So helping people connect to concepts and principles that were more holistic than just the business focus that they’re used to at work. And, in parallel I, because I’ve received such great coaching from over 24 coaches, I decided to get a certification myself, without the plan at the time. And again, like to your point, maybe my soul knew all along that this was the journey because when I went into the certification, I just thought, you know, even if I become a CEO, one day, being a great manager, this is a good tool to have, you know, like I’ll better support my teams with a coaching certification. So that’s what I thought I was getting it for. But then yeah, as soon as we started doing our 100 hours of coaching that’s required to get your certification. I realized that the flow and the fun and the love that I had for that coaching every individual in every session matched and surpassed the highs that I had from getting to close exciting venture deals, which honestly don’t doesn’t happen that often at the job. So When I felt like every day of my coaching world was happier than even the highest highs in my VC world, it was obvious that this was the right calling.

Jeremy Weisz 30:10

Yeah, no, I appreciate you sharing that evolution. Because I mean, whether it’s a company or whether someone’s switching careers, there’s this kind of evolution of what in our mind happens. And also in the actual career, what happened. So I love hearing your thought process through that. You mentioned detoxing, from founder in what sticks out to me, which is seems like a perfect candidate for you is founders after selling a company, I was talking to a friend recently, and he was stressed about what he’ll do next. And not giving, you know, hard charging people don’t give themselves the chance to just like you said, detox. What advice do you have those people who, you know, they’re like, on their next thing, you know, after selling, and they don’t give themselves a chance to just, you know, some space?

Victoria Song 31:11

Yeah, you know, I think, first of all, it’s really hard when we tie our value to our production, you know, like our output. So even if we’ve made money, and it’s sitting in the bank account, but we don’t feel useful, because we’re not creating more value and wealth, we can start to feel like very restless and not worthy and not valuable. So I think the first thing is really to disconnect your sense of worth and value from production, right? And really deriving your sense of value from getting to know like, Who are you what lights you up? And can you give yourself permission to actually do what lights you up. And I think it’s so important to take that time off. I know a lot of my colleagues, especially from you know, places like Yale and Harvard, they want to have the next job lined up before they leave. And not only that, but they feel like the sound of the next job has to sound more impressive than the job that they’re leaving. You know, it says there’s this ladder, where it’s like, the higher you climb the very, there’s very little room to go anywhere. And the live that options become very limited, if that’s how you’re thinking, you know, very narrowly. So, you know, my happiest classmates, and clients and friends have been the ones who did you know the treadmill for a little bit and then got off of it. And like, went to culinary school, or just did something that was completely tangential, something that allowed them to connect to, you know, their expansion. And then when they remembered what it felt like, to feel good and energized versus drained, you know, they reconnected to what lights them up, what feels fun, what they love, and then from that place, they were able to see more opportunities, and they were able to connect more to well, what matters to me, you know, what, versus what gets me applause. So, you know, you’re probably familiar with this. But there’s three phases that I see that everyone goes through in their professional career. The first one is what we talked about, which is that phase of proving yourself, you want to prove that you’re not a nobody. You want to be a somebody. And so the question we asked here is, Do I have anything we’re worth offering, you know, am I valuable? And then the second phase we enter when we realize we are indeed valuable is we realize, wow, I do matter. You know, this is exciting, I get paid for my gifts, I get paid to do what feels easy for me, like I don’t have to change who I am or manipulate my skill set. I actually am valuable, uniquely with my unique gifts. And then when you get there, I really believe that we make this third transition, which is okay, well, now I want to go work on something that matters. I know I matter. So what is my contribution, like, I want to work on something that matters. And so I really believe that if we have that framework in mind, we can be really honest with ourselves and ask ourselves like, where are we in those three stages? Are we still trying to prove that we got something to offer to bring to the table? Still trying to prove something? And if so, what are you trying to prove? You’re smart enough, successful enough? respectable enough, you know, and then we can ask ourselves? Actually, I think I’m in stage two, I’ve been really good at what I do. I really love it. But I’m still missing something. Oh, I’m missing the angle of this really mattering? Like, what’s my impact on the planet? What’s the legacy I want to leave behind?

Jeremy Weisz 34:31

Yeah, what sticks out to me Victoria is you say this is pay attention to what lights you up. You know—

Victoria Song 34:39

Let that be your beacon.

Jeremy Weisz 34:41

Yeah, we just kind of go through things and maybe we’re not paying as close attention to that as we should. That’s the lesson I took out of that.

Victoria Song 34:49

Absolutely. It feels like it’s like we almost don’t give ourselves permission to we think it’s childish or frivolous, to allow how we feel to impact and what we choose to do in our professional career. And, you know, the reason I started with that question of are you feeling contracted or expanded right now? Because I really want people to learn how to get out of their head asking these questions and start to feel in their body. What is the physical state and sensation of contraction versus expansion? Because the answers are right there. So, you know, when I said don’t go down the rabbit hole, I mean, like, the answers are right within us, not just spiritually in our soul. But physically, we’re getting answers all the time, if we just tuned in to, are we feeling contracted or expanded?

Jeremy Weisz 35:34

I want to change course for a second. And, you know, I know you do a lot of work with various individuals, and you probably help them when we feel contracted. What sticks out to me is having difficult conversations, it could be having difficult conversations with a spouse or people at work. Um, what advice do you have to have those difficult conversations, once someone realizes maybe this person or this thing is causing contraction?

Victoria Song 36:11

Absolutely, yes. So I know, it sounds kind of funny and unconventional. But the first thing before we get into tactics of what to say, here’s your script, you know, let’s have nonviolent communication, you got to just feel what’s there, you know, versus stuff it down. So maybe means go take a walk outside, or go sit in your car for a moment or go find your office phone booth. But if you want to scream into a pillow, scream into a pillow, you know, I think we often think it’s funny or, like, gosh, if I were really in control, if I were really emotionally intelligent, I wouldn’t need to do any of that, you know, I would just be really zen all the time. But I think people really mistake that and stuff down and freeze the contraction their body, and then they try to maintain calm when that stress and anxiety is just trying to be contained within them. So the first thing I say is like, go shake it out. You know, we move energy through breath, movement or sound. So if screaming into a pillow isn’t your thing, go for a run, you know, like, move the energy out of your system, release it kind of like you know how a gazelle can be running in nature and chased all day long, but not be traumatized. You know, every day—

Jeremy Weisz 37:21

I’m traumatized just watching it.

Victoria Song 37:22

Yeah, like, how does that gazelle then relax and eat grass after right after it’s just been running for its life? Well, if you’ve noticed, gazelles always shake their bodies after. And you have a pet, you probably notice if you have a dog, your dog is always shaking, it gets up from sitting down, it shakes it out, you know, like, this is just part of nature. Like we want to release the stress and tension that we’re so used to holding. And today it’s not running for a life, it’s like the email or like you said, that impending conversation that you know you want it, you have to have it but you want to avoid. So those are the things that are equivalent of running for life today, that that we build up and freeze in our bodies if we don’t release it. So the book Bending Reality also gives like every tool I’ve ever learned across 24 coaches, on all the ways to release contraction. So whether it’s moving through movement, your breath, or through sound, it really gives you a very comprehensive toolkit of how to release contraction.

Jeremy Weisz 37:22

Yeah, I love that. Yeah, so the high level, you know, just thinking about the difficult conversation, you’re like, the first thing you need to do is just release, however, some don’t want to release.

Victoria Song 38:31

People can hear the tone on your voice, you know, you can give someone a script and say, I hear you and, and then like how them follow it. But if they’re feeling tight, and wound up and angry, and like, they’re like holding a back, that tone is going to come through and it’s going to make the person feel defensive. You’re going to sound defensive. And then before you know it, you’ve like escalated the conversation, or both of you are avoiding conversation because it’s like, you can’t ignore what’s right there in front of you. So first is clear it from your system. So you can be more neutral, not like some idealistic meditative, like, you know, keep calm and carry on. But like, truly because you released it from your system, it’s actually neutral.

Jeremy Weisz 39:16

Yeah, yeah. I imagine, you know, I’d love to hear so you release it then what you recommend, but I imagine sometimes the releases, you know, people are talking to you as their leadership advisor, right. I mean, that’s a release also, they’re like, okay, boom, and they just unloaded on you. Victoria, probably and like, cool. They probably feel better.

Victoria Song 39:36

Yeah, definitely. There’s definitely an element of spinning in their head that just like getting it out of their head is helpful. And, yeah, and you know, I really believe that if we knew how to cultivate expansion. These conversations are easy, like all the principles that you learn from therapist or relationship books that are like, here’s a framework for nonviolent communication or here is how you stay curious and ask questions like all of those principles are developed from this expansive state of consciousness. And then we just hope that if someone says and does and behaves like this, then they too will be a great leader. But the truth is, like, we need laws in the world, because of the actions people take from contraction. You know, if we really knew how to cultivate expansion, there would be no harm to self or others. And so it really comes back to this state of, well, if I could operate and live from expansion. I could have those conversations in a way where I’m not taking it personally.

Jeremy Weisz 40:37

You know, it’s funny. I don’t go on Instagram that much. But, but there is a channel on Instagram that reminds me of this Victoria, which is, it’s called Nature Is Metal. And it’s literally wild. It’s just filming wild animals and what happens in nature, but it is like a lion chase after. It’s crazy, right? And it’s like pretty graphic. Also, I just find myself just watch it. It’s just so addicting. To me, it’s like to see what happens. Oh, it was a checkout Nature Is Metal, you will understand what Victoria is talking about. For real. And don’t blame me if you binge watch like 40 of them. Okay.

Victoria Song 41:21

Have you noticed what I’m saying now that that gizelle was sort of like, shakes and trembles, and then gets back to eating grass?

Jeremy Weisz 41:26

Yeah, it’s yeah, exactly. I mean, a lot of times the gazelle gets eaten. But there are times that the gazelle escapes like, a crocodile is like eating it, you know, basically has its or a zebra, you know, is basically has his jaws locked down in an escape. So it’s, there’s maybe for every 10 there’s like one or they escape or something like that. But anyways. Exactly. So check it out. But so release, what’s the next kind of, we’re looking at it from a high level, what’s the next thing difficult conversation, you need to release it? What’s the next thing people should think about doing? Yeah, so

Victoria Song 42:10

the thing that I like to have clients do when, and it sounds kind of funny, but it always works, which is that I have them take on the conversation from their perspective. And I’m like, okay, unload, say it unfiltered, everything you want to say? And then they do. And then I say, Okay, now I want you to walk to the other corner of the room. And now you’re the other person, and I want you to respond to everything you heard. And they do. And sometimes they say, well, I think he would say, and I’m like, No, no say it from first person, I want you to embody this person who you’re arguing with, and tell me what they would say. And then they do that. And then we do it maybe rounds two or three times. And by the end of it, they’re like, Oh, I get it, I get why we’re talking past each other. There’s like this elevated third perspective that they couldn’t see when they were in that binary, this or that my way or your way. And so that’s an easy tool that you can just think about. And as you can imagine, it really cultivates a sense of empathy. It helps you get out of your system, you know, your unfiltered version, and you get to play out the worst case scenario where you’re both kind of like yelling and activated, and, you know, saying, whatever, back and forth. And then by the end of it, you’re like, Oh, this is what I need to do. This is what I need to say, you know, that’s the best way I’m all about embodiment. So I’m all about like, let’s make this experiential. But there are plenty of great frameworks that ask you to do things like, can you stay curious, you know, when the other person disagrees with you? Can you not make it about right or wrong? Or, you know, shame around looking embarrassed? That can you really understand like, okay, why do you see that way? You know, or even being able to say something like, it looks like, we’re not going to agree on this. So what should we do, given that, you know, and really building that feeling of we’re on the same team, let’s put the problem out there in front of us. So that’s another tool you can think about is literally sit on the same side of the table. Like if you’re in the conference room, whenever we get to be in person again, instead of sitting across the table from each other, like sit on the same side. And imagine that problem, whatever it is, if it’s like this deal, that’s really important. We’re going to put that problem out in front of us, the chair across from us, and we’re going to look at it together from the same side. You know, like there’s all these little techniques that you can remember to use that allow you to make sure that we’re in the state of expansion as we problem solve, versus warring each other and making this feel like it’s life or death, because that’s the problem when you’re in contraction. Through this to your ego feel like the rights to your life, you know, and you’re not even talking about the topic anymore. You’re talking about looking stupid, feeling stupid being wrong and therefore like your job security is at stake. Like it gets really heightened the stories we tell ourselves when we’re in contraction.

Jeremy Weisz 45:11

Yeah, Victoria, thank you. Yeah, so I could see it when you release and then coming in having this, you know, whatever action step you take with the tools is basically seeing the other side and experiencing the other side on a deeper level and then you when you come to that conversation, it can be more productive and less defensive and all of those things. Victoria, first of all, I want to be the first one to thank you. Thanks for sharing all this. I want to point people towards Also check out bending reality you can find on Amazon, Audible. Where else should we point people towards To find out more, Victoria?

Victoria Song 45:48

Yeah, so it’s for pre order. Right now. I’m offering all sorts of bonuses and like free coaching techniques and tools that help you cultivate expansion if you preorder so that can be found on and that will take you to the book and all the resources and bonuses and and then as soon as it’s available, then you’ll find it at different retailers your retailer of choice.

Jeremy Weisz 46:14

Thank you, Victoria, check out and then checkout slash bending reality. Thanks, everyone.

Victoria Song 46:21

Thank you. Thanks for having me.