Search Interviews:

Jeremy Weisz 15:49 

It’s super interesting, which could have gone a million different ways, and went the way it went, who had the technical chops to start to build this stuff out? Or did you have a team?

Stephen Whiting 16:00 

Yeah, so from day one, in the early days of StreetText, I had to give all that credit to the other co-founder, Jonathan, who’s my brother. So Jonathan was the sole developer in the early days today. I mean, he obviously spends very little time in that area of the business, unless he has something he really wants to get out. And then he jumps in and pushes out a quick product release for feature release. But back then, I mean, we really owe it to him. I mean, he worked tirelessly to get all of that out. In the very early days, we also ran a web shop on the side as well. So he was not only building our product, but building websites for customers.

And so he did a phenomenal job. But that was more early back in the day, he was all self-taught, you see a lot of that today. But back then everybody was sort of going to some sort of digital school or going to computer science, John learned it all. He has an interesting blend too, he’s very fortunate, where he has a very good understanding of the technical, and you can think like an architect, but he can also design which is a rare quality. Most developers like to be back in front end, or you have a designer and which obviously we do today, you got all these different elements of your product team. But John was able to sort of see it from his mind design it and build it, which is a great quality. So we’re very lucky to have him.

Jeremy Weisz 17:18 

That’s amazing. Yeah, exactly. So for the beginning, like you said, there’s a few $100 left, you finally get an ad that’s working. And Darryl kind of funds, that initial test. What was the next milestone of a customer client for you?

Stephen Whiting 17:36 

Well, I mean, from there, it actually grew quite quickly, because what we would do is we took Darryl case study, so I actually ended up creating that would be our seller version, if you will, for real estate back then was the home seller side. It didn’t take me long with that confidence to then find some buyer ads that were working, which back in those early days of Facebook, I mean, to generate leads for 10 cents was not uncommon, like, and so it was just insane, right? Like it was so impactful that so many real estate agents, it almost kind of they couldn’t believe it. And it surprised me so much, they almost backed away from it, if that makes sense.

We would like to blow them up, like we would blow their database up, we would blow everything up. And they would be like, whoa, please pause everything. I don’t know what to do with this. And anyway, so we took the case study from Darryl, we now had buyer and seller campaigns. And I just went to all of our existing StreetText customers that were on the text double sign writers. And I basically pitched to them what we could do for them. And we strung it together back then because now we didn’t have a product for it. Right? So we strung it together using a bunch of different tools. I literally had the early versions showing up in a Google Sheet for them. And the leads would show up in a Google Sheet. They didn’t know how they ended up there. It was super, super manual on our part. But again, just getting that MVP out proving it out. But people were all over it. I mean, those early days of selling it. We’re pretty easy. And then I also think that there was a beginning there was a wave…

Jeremy Weisz 19:04 

Was this a self-service, like the real estate age. Walk me through.

Stephen Whiting 19:07 

No. So back then it was really us. We had to run the ads for you. So we were essentially…

Jeremy Weisz 19:14 

You were like a tech-enabled agency.

Stephen Whiting 19:15 

Yeah, but we weren’t selling agency prices. We were selling it to you if we had software. And that was a very successful and scaling and selling because people wanted it but it was also very, very cost and hit a pivot on our set. Like we literally had members running like an agency and we weren’t charging that money. So it made scaling challenging. So we ended up needing to get some funds and things in those days to kind of help but yeah, so we were essentially the first agency on the platform too and it was us.

Jeremy Weisz 19:48 

Talk about pricing. How did you come up and decide on pricing at that time?

Stephen Whiting 19:54 

So pricing is another really great I mean there’s so much on pricing. Pricing is just fun, I think there’s so much science in it. But there’s also just a ton of like art, right? We actually had. So we were charging on the first product $15 a month, if you remember. And so the very first version that we sold off the kind of ads component, we came up with $80. And we thought it was insane. Like, they are so expensive, like when people buy it, and they bought it. And we were like, oh, man, this is amazing. Like, we were making, you know, now and like nine months in the previous product one month, we’re like, just so excited. And then we went to this speaking event of some sort, and there was a, I forget exactly who was there. But there was a company there. And they said, what you do with pricing is you double it. And if nobody complains, you double it again.

And if nobody complains, and we’re like, that’s insane. But we went for lunch, and we were like, we’re gonna do it, we’re gonna double, we’re gonna see what happens. But we were freaking out, we doubled it. And we sold just as many. Right? And we considered doubling it again, but we got scared. We got scared at that point. Because every once in a while, when you do double it, you get the odd personal little kind of like, you’d like look at it sideways. But still, even at $160 a month back then, we were opening up agency-level marketing, which anybody would have charged $1,500 a month for plus a retainer, maybe even two or $3,000 a month. And we were doing it for $160 a month.

The problem is we weren’t communicating it that way. So, because you just don’t know what you don’t know. But anyways, that’s where we started. And that pricing ended up working out pretty well for us. And we’ve tested it. I mean, we have clients, if they want more kind of like, I guess a little of an agency arm with us today that, they can spend upwards of $1,000 bucks a month. But most of our clients are sitting somewhere in around $200 a month today on our product.

Jeremy Weisz 21:53 

Yeah, yeah. If you’re looking at the video part, you can see three tax I mean, you can poke around here with the product. And you can see even still today, if you get the 12-month plan, I mean, well, if you watch this in two years from now, I can’t guarantee this is the same, you better lock it in now if you’re getting it because they can double it on you. But it’s still 160 right here, if you get the 12-month plan. Right?

Stephen Whiting 22:23 

Yep. And this pricing actually worked well for us too, because you’ll notice in this old pricing, again, it might not be the same when you look into the future. But we would charge upfront for either three, six or 12 months, which I’m staring at on the screen here. And the reason we did that, too, is we’re still in right now a lot of it is Legion, we have a lot of branding and marketing now built into the business, which I would say is a totally different kind of angle. But we did not want people signing up for our product to try it for one month. Now we did create a trial. And we still have that today. So people can come and try the product out. And they can test it out no commitment, we don’t take a credit card or anything they can try it out.

But if you’re going to commit to the product and use it, we know you need to commit at least three months. And really, you should do that for any marketing angle you’re going to try right, you need to commit a certain period of time. And so that became just a part of our pricing. And I would say the agents that commit longer and they just invest mentally longer, they do really well because they’ve thinking now longer, they’re building systems that are longer. And so that worked out really well for us. And so churn was a lot higher on the month-a-month, it’s a lot lower when you commit to an agent that has that kind of longer mindset, or now today, any business that just has that longer mindset.

Jeremy Weisz 23:35 

There’s so many decisions here and including the trial. So I’m curious, people do a seven day trial, 14 day trial 30 day trial, why cemetery use your search long and our thought long and hard about this one?

Stephen Whiting 23:50 

Yeah. So seven days is, for those listening, a beautiful trial period, not to say that some of your customers won’t be frustrated. And some of them will be, because seven days is really not long enough to really get your hands in. But keep in mind, and we’re becoming more of a PLG motion. And that’s like a product-led growth motion in the future. Which means that when you sign up for a product, it’s very, very intuitive. But there’s elements of our product today that are not yet like well, I shouldn’t say that you can sign up and get connected pretty easily. But you know, that you can run into like we’re connecting you to meta, right?

So they can be the odd challenge, a disconnect with things that we just need to help you with to get that all connected. But one of the beautiful things about our product is that even in one day, like if we have somebody that signs up for StreetText on the trial, and they get meta connected, and we help them or they help, they can do it themselves. But if we help them or they do it, they figure out how to launch their first ad. Typically within a few hours. They’ve got leads coming in. And so I think there’s a beautiful element about our product, which may not be the same for every other software company out there. But ours is where you can kind of go I think, well we know this big a-ha moment. Our first a-ha for a lot of our customers is does this actually work. And when they come in, they launched their first ad and within just a few dollars of spend and a few hours leads a showing up, that first aha is realized. And our seven days is really about proving that out to you.

Now, if you want to make the system work, and you want to really grow this, we’re gonna have to connect to your CRM, we’re gonna have to build out some systems, you’re gonna have to think a little bit differently about how you want to work, these leads, or this, build up the content for your marketing. But that’s the first aha, and that for us serves us really well, in seven days.

Jeremy Weisz 25:32 

I consider, I think, seeming a big milestone, which is, you could tell me if I’m right or not, but self-serve. So what point because you’re charging platform SaaS pricing, but you’re still executing it, you’re probably building out the technology and the back ends, you no longer have to do that, but you’re still having to do it. At what point do you transition to self-serve, they’re going in, they connect it, they release it, they’re running it, so takes the strain off of you and your team?

Stephen Whiting 26:09 

Well, so today, that is how 98% of our clients are running it for sure. The majority of our clients, so maybe 95%, and I say the other 5% or so maybe it’s 10% now is that we’ll run, we’ll do some stuff, but there’s some increased costs for that. But most of the clients that come onto our platform today, they do it all on their own, we really, our product is really well situated for that marketer mindset, like, it could be any business that I’ll get, I’ll say real estate agents. But real estate agents are obviously in the business of selling real estate and meeting clients and doing all of the real estate business, but they have a marketing function, they believe they do.

And they love marketing, and they want to be the number one agent in the community, or they just want to make sure that they’re seen or people are talking about them, etc. Right. So they put that marketing hat on, and we serve them incredibly well. And that can be the same for even if you’re a marketer in an existing business, and you just want to access tools at the agency level, you could use our product, or yeah, so that that marketing, I guess, persona around our client is a big deal. Because if you’re not a marketer, you can still get value in the real estate side from our product by just launching a few ads, but then you’d be better off having us run the ads for you. Even though you could do it yourself, we’ve made it so it’s so dead simple to do. But just like any other platform, some ads that can perform better than others, you need to be kind of looking at that we make it easy to make those decisions. But nonetheless, it’s not like AI is yet running those ads for you. And so you have to have a little bit of a marketing kind of desire behind the scenes.

Jeremy Weisz 27:44 

At what point could you actually transition that so that was self-serve? Entirely? Yeah. Because obviously now that’s how it works. But back then you were running it behind the scenes. When was the point when you’re like, okay, we’re flipping the switch, they’re just gonna go in, sign up and start running it.

Stephen Whiting 28:04 

Yeah, well, I mean, so I asked him, when did that happen?

Jeremy Weisz 28:08 

Yeah, when did it happen? When were able to transition from you’re attacking the old agency to really assess that product.

Stephen Whiting 28:18 

It took us a number of years to get it, right. But I would say probably, like, maybe 2016-2017, it was really running more on your own. And then the tools just got better and better and better. And we’re always trying to work on that user experience. I mean, if you signed up, you think it’s, you know, amazing, but we look at and go, “Oh, we can make this better, we can make this better. And this is confusing.” And so we have a phenomenal product team that is always working on trying to improve that experience.

Jeremy Weisz 28:46 

I want to talk about the features. Because all these features come from customer feedback, or you internally are experimenting with, we think this is gonna make it better. Right? So it started off. It’s just fascinating evolution from just a text. Now you’re actually going in and you’re able to launch ads for people you can see here, you can launch an ad funnel in a few seconds, it syncs with your CRM, you’re in control of text message automations custom domain masterminds webinars. Also, there’s a library of high-performing ads, one-click split testing, Zapier integration, there’s 100% of the ad budget spent directly on ads and people are managing inside of platform.

Stephen Whiting 29:36 

That’s right, they’re using their own ad account. They’re using their own business manager, which is a big deal too. Because if you want to build your brand, and if you want to make sure that you’re not losing like, and again, it’s just a different model, but a lot of companies will take a percentage of your ad spend, right, we don’t do that. So 100% of your money is spent on ads that you spend on ads.

Jeremy Weisz 29:56 

So talk about wavy one of these key features, and how you came to actually deciding to launch it.

Stephen Whiting 30:05 

If you don’t mind me, I’ll talk about a couple because they can lean into each other a little bit. But one of them that’s really popular with us, which again, nobody else really knows, or does is a little bit lower. And it talks about our split testing. So that one-click split testing. This actually came from an in-house agency person that we have worked in a company that still works with us today, he is an advertising genius. And keep in mind, we spent a lot of money on matters. So we have all these different professionals that we get to speak to, especially of all the years that we’ve worked so closely with him as a partner.

So we discovered, oh, he discovered fairly early on in conversation, that when you launch ads on Facebook, most people are going to split test their copy. And what I mean by copy is like the text, or they’re going to split-test their image. And that’s all really good things to do. But what we realized is that you actually want to split-test the audience. And you want to launch the exact same copy the exact same image, and it seems counterintuitive. But here’s an example is we would run an ad, like, let’s say that home seller ad, and in the real estate world there’s a number of extra restrictions, but you’ve got this fairly large radius, you got to run ads, and the area is quite large. And there’s a lot of people that live there. And when we launch an ad, we do it three times, because what meta is essentially doing is in the first 24 hours, especially sometimes up to 72, but it’s mostly in that first 24 hours, they’re essentially using the first 500 people that look at the ad as their indication of who the audience should be.

And then they’re going to continue to find an audience like that. But that audience is not the same. So you can run the exact same ad launch at the exact same time. And Facebook is essentially finding different audiences on those ads. And the reason it’s such a big deal is that one of those ads, the audience might be say $20 leads. Another one is, say $70 leads, and the third one is like $4 leads. And what we have found is that once Facebook tends to find that they will continue that is sometimes even indefinitely if the engagement stays high, or sometimes for years where you can continue to keep that lead price on an ongoing basis.

But if you had run the ad once, maybe you thought you could only have got $18 leads. But because of the split tests, you were able to significantly lower your lead price based on the audience. Now, lower leak price isn’t necessarily everything. But I would say for the majority of our customers, it is a big factor in the decision making. And our tool automatically will do this for you. So as you’re launching an ad, you can auto leverage is split tested, it will automatically find you the lowest price lead, and then you can turn off the other ads, you spend a little bit safer on the first day. But ongoing, you’ve now saved hundreds if not thousands of dollars in the future.

Jeremy Weisz 32:53 

So I can see the real estate niche you came from that niche, you get a lot of people coming in for that one other niches are using StreetText?

Stephen Whiting 33:04 

So if I talk about some of the other, I’ll maybe mention some of the companies that I mentioned that other products, the feature I talked about. We have a number of companies now like coaches are becoming quite popular. We saw other SaaS companies like us software companies are using our products. The Home Services for sure is pretty big and interesting. We have like, even people like doing with some experiments with like window companies and they’re closing deals and painting companies like really so many businesses get the benefit of ads, it’s just finding ads that work well for them. And when they do, they work really well.

But one of the other big areas of our product today is that we had something pretty unique where we, so, remarketing is everybody knows what remarketing or retargeting is sort of a similar word. We use remarketing, because we really want to remarket back to your existing audience. But it’s really about the content that you’re creating. So again, back to — I’ll use a real estate example. But again, this applies to any business is that when you’re generating all these leads, or you’ve got people that are visiting your website, or you know, etc, you really need to have marketing that is staying in front of them on an ongoing basis because that person might buy from you in next week, or they might buy from you in six months, right. And if you forget to stay in front of them, they’ll just move on, they’ll find some other business when they’re closer to their buying decision timeframe.

So we have made the remarketing very, very easy again, like, I would say even easier than the Legion site, which is super easy. And what I mean by that is all the audiences that you need to go after are like a one click you don’t have to even worry about it. We have a whole bunch of pre-built ads in place. We can even take your existing content and turn into remarketing. But what makes our system so unique is that we build something called ad bundles. And so you could have like let’s say I wanted to create all these testimonial pieces for my remarketing I want to show case studies. Maybe I want to use some of my highly like my best page posts I created maybe even a year ago or last six months that had lots of comments. If you turn all those into remarketing ads, you’re going to be spending money on every single one of those ads today. And, again, Meta is happy to take your money.

But for most people, they’re like, ah, man, this remarketing just became so expensive. We can actually build bundles, where, let’s say, the purpose is like your testimonials are staying in front of your audience and just showing case studies, you put all of that type of ad in that bundle, and we will then rotate it for you. And so you could have 30 pieces of content. And there are 100 pieces of content in there. But you might only be spending $1 or $2 a day, in any given day, because that piece of content showing and then tomorrow, it changes to a different piece of content and so forth. And so that makes it much more scalable, you can pull out the ads that aren’t performing, you put the ones in that are performing. But it’s a game changer for many of our agents.

And this is why software companies are interested to because you can even build bundles around like stages that your leaves you’re at, you can even go after your existing customers, maybe customers that are churning, you could put content around, but you don’t have to break the bank on it. And so that’s really big. And I would say the other piece why that’s so popular is that creating content is a must, you got to do it. And on platforms like YouTube, it kind of lives on forever. But on platforms like Instagram and Facebook, it goes to die, right? Like you make this great content, you put it in front of your audience, like organically. And then a few days later, or maybe even a few hours later, it just drops down that newsfeed right. And somebody if they come to your business three months later, they should have seen that content, but they’ll never find it.

They’re never going to scroll all the way down your page to find they’re going to see what’s today, right. And so what we do is we take that best-performing content that you really put all the effort in, and we put it in these ad bundles. And I think that’s been a big game changer for a lot of businesses. And we’ve again back to that marketer mindset, they love this. Right? And from that point on their content lives on forever, but at $1 a day when it shows up.

Jeremy Weisz 37:05 

Yeah, in the front of the interview, I mentioned the secret weapon. And that secret weapon Stephen’s talking about is the remarketing piece, right? You spent all this time, energy and money, and then just for like a couple of dollars a day you actually back in front of them utilizing the effort that you did in the first place, I imagine, right?

Stephen Whiting 37:30 

Yep. Yeah, yeah. No, I was gonna say I think my favorite is when we and we got all these stories of this. But like, when customers just start saying that they are in a Home Depot, and somebody walks in and says, I see you everywhere. Right? And that’s the power of it, because you only target the people now that are in your database that matter most to you. And they do see you everywhere.

Jeremy Weisz 37:54 

Do you have agencies managing their agency and their clients using StreetText?

Stephen Whiting 38:03 

We do. Yeah. Mostly they’re real estate agencies. And what they do is they run. They kind of use the same technology that we built to scale up. So it depends what they want to do with your customer. But they can either run ads for their customers, or for a lot of them there. Yeah, I mean, that’s actually essentially how most of them are doing today. They are linked to say 20 or 30 different customers, they then come in, run all of that behind the scenes for the agent and do that. So an agency can definitely use the tool as well.

Jeremy Weisz 38:34 

I would love to highlight what you do a little bit more with an actual story. I don’t know which one would be best to talk about. I know you have a few. There’s Laurie, Donna, Wendy just to name a few which one would be best to highlight?

Stephen Whiting 38:48 

Well, there’s so many, like I mentioned a customer like an early on, like we still have many of our customers that started with on day one, that first product, that first version that we sold. And one of them that came in fairly early is this lady named Donna Swansea. And I never even knew she was even around that, again, back to the PLG motion, like when people were running on their own. And we sent this email out. And I was asking a question about who had success and she said, “oh, I you know, I just closed seven clients last month from StreetText,” and I’m like, “well, that’s a big deal.”

I started talking to her and found out that she is as far removed from ads and more and like the traditional way of working leads that you could ever imagine like she’s not calling them she didn’t want to do any of that she really was like almost like our first remarketing candidate in the sense that she did a video of herself. She had emails and she would just email them and send this content out on an ongoing basis and just ask them questions. And she was generating so many leads that enough of them would respond and then she would turn those into like customers, but she never called she never texted.

She just stayed away from all that kind of traditional side. And she’s still with us today. And she has closed hundreds and hundreds of transactions through our platform that way. And then on the other side, I mean, I’m just thinking of a recent webinar we did, we’ve got…

Jeremy Weisz 40:16 

What was her product was she’s selling, like real estate.

Stephen Whiting 40:20 

She’s a real estate agent. Yeah, but I mean, in the real estate world, that’s a lot of money, right? Like, we have realtors that do incredibly well on the platform. Because it’s a high client lifetime value, you need to think a little longer term, because again, some of those clients might even be a year out. But if you can understand that, and again, it’s what we would call top of funnel. So if you’re familiar with that, that means that you’re early in the process, but you’re generating all of these, building up your database for maybe a few dollars a lead, versus if you’re buying bottom of the funnel, you can go to somebody that’s nurtured lead already, but you’re gonna get one, you’re gonna pay 1000s for it.

And so she’s happy to do that. And I really think top of funnel is the best way to go. Because getting back to that marketer, I’d rather have 100,000 leads in my database than 10. But the 100,000 leads, anytime I email them, or from market shifts, or anything else I can communicate, and I own that now. And I can stay in front of them. So I don’t know that fully answered your question, that’s a Donna.

Jeremy Weisz 40:22 

Yeah, for sure. I guess my other question is growth. One of the things from my research, obviously, you grew, there’s word of mouth, but you’ve also grown through partnerships, that seems other people and talk about growth through partnerships.

Stephen Whiting 41:39 

So partnerships is based, if you use some depth 2024. If anybody is listening, I recommend growing through partners, we obviously, we grow through paid ads, we grow through a bunch of variety of ways. But partners, I find, is just one of the best ways of maybe growing a product like ours, but when you can get to that influencer is somebody that understands it, and has their loyal customers already. And then you can just communicate through them. That is by far the fastest way for us that we’re growing today. And I just, yeah, that’s I mean, support is, is a big deal. I mean, we’re gonna have 50 platform partners on by the end of the year, and we got amazing ones.

And what I mean by that is like an example is we work with a really phenomenal company called I-List, they have software that provides a lot of information in real estate in regards to valuations and whatnot. And that we built those ads right into our platform. So you can be an I-List customer, you come StreetText, you now have ads that work on their platform. And they you know, customers love it, they love it, we love it. And it’s a much more sticky kind of integrated connection. Even with CRMs, I mean, we do a lot with a company called Follow Up Boss in the real estate world.

Jeremy Weisz 42:55 

That’s what I was referring to, there was a I think, a webinar or a joint webinar that you did, talking about with them. And it seems like a good marriage there, right? Their CRM, the follow-up, etc.

Stephen Whiting 43:09 

Yeah, and it’s really powerful too when we connect to your CRM, because now let’s say you got 20,000 leads in your CRM, all because of the integration with StreetText, all of those leads can now automatically be synced to Facebook 24/7. So when you’re doing when we mark and you never have to do, like download a CSV file, and build a custom audience, it’s all done for you automatically. But even better than that, you can segment those audiences automatically.

And so where people and Follow Up Boss love us, is they may have like remarketing bundles that just says targeting leads in their lead stage in Follow Up Boss. And the moment a lead goes in, or leaves that lead stage and Follow Up Boss, the ads that that customer is seeing are either automatically turning on or automatically turning off. So it’s pretty powerful, right? It just gets that much more integrated, and that much more sophisticated. So yeah, partners are big for us.

Jeremy Weisz 43:55 

First of all, Stephen, thank you. I have one last question where I just want to hear about your journey mentors. It can be distant mentors, maybe books, resources, or it could be actual mentors. Before you answer that I want to just point people to checkout StreetText at to learn more, and it’s just a fascinating journey of like you could have got I mean, it’s amazing to me, seemingly, you could have gone like at a text messaging platform, you could have had an agency that just use the platform and served all these clients and probably charge four times as much.

It’s not as scalable of course and you went the SaaS route to help these people self-serve manager as I mean, you still have a component I know if people don’t want to manage themselves that you’ll actually help them do that. But it’s pretty amazing what you’ve done. So from a mentorship standpoint, who are some of their personal mentors or just a mentor and some of the lessons learned there?

Stephen Whiting 44:58 

I mean, we’ve been very fortunate we’ve had a lot of phenomenal mentors. Over the years. We live somewhere we — I might have a place called Kelowna, British Columbia up in Canada. And when we first started, there was really no companies like us. And then there was this big exit to Disney from a company called Club Penguin and the founders there invested a bunch of money back in the community. Anyways, long story short, the tech scene in Kelowna is actually big. It’s quite large, and it’s growing very quickly.

And so we have now had very, we’ve been very fortunate to have a lot of local mentorship that has grown over the years as a part of all of that’s happening in this community. I mean, I could name a whole bunch of names, I would say, most recently, a phenomenal mentor who also moved here has become a gentleman named Dan Martell. He’s in the SaaS world, if you know him, become a good friend. And he now lives here as well. And that’s kind of like, who’s coming here. And he has introduced me to so many incredible mentors as well.

Jeremy Weisz 44:58 

I remember Dan’s I think, original tool, Clarity.

Stephen Whiting 45:24 

That’s right. Yeah. So one of the ones that he sold.

Jeremy Weisz 46:07 

He’s got a couple of SaaS successful SaaS business. I think he runs a big group for SaaS companies.

Stephen Whiting 46:13 

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Jeremy Weisz 46:16 

There’s a book someone sent me which was great. Buy Back Your Time. Yeah, it was just phenomenal.

Stephen Whiting 46:20 

Yep, exactly. It’s a great book. I mean, Land Shaffer is another great mentor we’ve had in the past. I mean, there’s just been so many I could just name so I guess I would say very fortunate, very lucky. Like you. I’m an avid reader, as well. So I try to listen to as many books as I can. I just think we’re so lucky that people put their best work into a book. And then we get to either read it or listen to it. It’s incredible access to 15 or 20. Writers, right? Yeah. So it’s a no-brainer to read as much as you can and learn from all these different lives. Right.

Jeremy Weisz 46:51 

So, first of all, Stephen, thank you. I want to encourage everyone to check out for more episodes, the podcast and thanks, everyone. Thanks, Stephen.

Stephen Whiting 47:02 

Thanks, Jeremy.