Jeremy Weisz 17:04
People may be thinking, Stephanie, that’s cool. I mean, it’s radical. They’re helping the environment. They’re making big changes. I am not that type of company, but here you have a cinnamon roll company. So talk about the rallying cry and how you did with the cinnamon roll company. It looks delicious also.
Stephanie Kochorek 17:26
Very good, yeah. And that’s actually an international like, they’re in Dubai, they’re all over the place. Again, it all comes back to strategy. And we won’t work with clients, like, if they don’t feel on some level that they’re adding, they’re contributing to the world, like it’s just not for us, because there’s nothing to say at that point, like, I got nothing to talk about. With these cinnamon rolls, like they’re so they’re sold in mall kiosks. Your audience is teenagers, right? Like that. That’s who’s eating these and maybe, like moms that are shopping with their kids, and what is this for them? Like, what does that signify? The time it’s like a moment of joy, right? Like, this is a moment of happiness.
This is a reprieve from everything else that’s been going on. It’s a chance to just sit and savor something, and they are delicious, by the way, and so you can see the voice of the brand here, like, let the good times roll, for a smile that sticks like, this isn’t heavy. We’re not talking about world peace, but we are talking about just the human satisfaction of, like, eating something delicious. And again, with color, we’re looking at colors that taste good, you know, certain, like, color has a taste to it, also, right? Like, what’s the flavor of this? Like, I can tell that it’s sweet and a bit savory, but still, it’s also not Skittles.
Jeremy Weisz 19:09
I’m wondering what made you start your agency? You’d work for many agencies. What was the time when you decided I’m gonna start my own?
Stephanie Kochorek 19:21
To be honest, I, like, didn’t ever have any ambitions of being an entrepreneur. I moved back to Calgary when I started having kids, and I was freelancing a lot, and sort of one thing just came into it, like one thing rolled into another, and it was like, there was enough work that there needed to be other people to do it all. And then I think in that moment, I was like, oh, like, maybe this is a like, this is a secret dream that I’m having now. And I remember thinking like, oh my God. Like, if there was just, like, an office. Like I was the boss of one person.
Like that would be insane, like, that was like, more than I could have dreamt of. And there’s a quote that has always stuck with me. It’s, “you will accomplish less than you think you can in a year, and way more than you think you can in 10.” And that has held true, like we’re only eight years old now. And if you had told me when I started like that I would have been the founder of this agency that has achieved things beyond my dreams, I would have just laughed. But here we are.
Jeremy Weisz 20:42
What are the key positions you put in place along the journey? What’d you hire for first?
Stephanie Kochorek 20:51
Accounts so Jill up there is also a partner in the business. Remember when we first started working together, she’s like, how long does it usually take you to respond to client emails? And I’m like, oh, yeah, like two weeks. Like one or two weeks. And she was like, oh, she’s like, for me, it’s same day. I was like, right? I need you. And it’s very much our yin yang vibe now, like, Jill’s incredible. She’s so on it. And I always joke I’m like, she’s like, eight, like, she’s the energy of eight people in one person.
I’m always envious of that. And just like, we’ll go talk to every client, like, remembers, everyone’s kid’s name, like, just is so talented. And I’m not, like, I do not want to be at a networking event. That’s my idea of a nightmare. Like, I’m not a good schmoozer. I do not like small talk. I really struggle. So we’re a really good balance for each other in that way. That was a really key position.
Jeremy Weisz 22:01
How’d you meet her?
Stephanie Kochorek 22:04
She worked at another agency in Calgary, and it’s a small enough world that everyone knows everyone.
Jeremy Weisz 22:16
So after Jill, what position was next that you hired for?
Stephanie Kochorek 22:22
Ben, who is a designer, like, just, he’s seen everything, and I think it’s been really interesting for him. And because I didn’t know anything about leadership, like, I literally was like, sounds cool to be the boss of people, like, power. I’m like, that’s great. I want it so bad. And then you, I don’t know, it’s like, in my mind, you get there and you’re like, yeah, everyone’s just gonna do what I say, and this is gonna be awesome. And then when you’re there, you’re like, oh no, this doesn’t work like that at all. Like that is not at all what being a leader is about even the slightest.
So I think it’s like, Ben had to go through a lot with me as I learned how to be a leader and what that actually means, and how to show up. And he was incredibly patient, and he’s phenomenally talented, and just like, we’ll always, if it’s like, yeah, when there’s those fires and everything’s going to hell, like, Ben is the first one to raise his hand and be like, I got this. Like, how can I help? How can I jump in?
Jeremy Weisz 23:36
So talk about the leadership piece. What have you learned about being a leader?
Stephanie Kochorek 23:43
Yeah, I took a lot of coaching. I’ve read a lot of books. I think I sort of started out thinking that it’s like you either were you weren’t, and I’m naturally really bossy. So I was like, oh, I’ll be so good at this. Like, I’ve bossed everybody my whole life, and then realized, no, that’s not what it is at all.
Jeremy Weisz 24:08
Bossy. That’s funny.
Stephanie Kochorek 24:10
I am. I’ve always, it’s like, I’ve been told I was bossy since I was a kid, and I am bossy, but to me, that’s not the same as being a good leader. It’s really empathy, like you have to see the people in front of you and understand my motivations and what I like and what feels comfortable for me and when I’m engaged is not the same. Like everybody has their own unique set of things that they’re bringing to the office, like story what they want out of the experience. So it’s understanding that and having empathy towards it, and then making sure that they’re finding a way to, like, meet those deep needs, like, not the need for a paycheck or the need for something to do between the hours of nine and five. But sort of that, that deeper calling like, what are you here for? What are your gifts and how do you want to show up?
Jeremy Weisz 25:10
What have you discovered with people like, what are some examples of deeper callings?
Stephanie Kochorek 25:18
Probably the person that’s easiest for me, because we’re the same in a lot of ways, as my executive creative director, Kelly. Her and I are cut from the same cloth. It’s like, I don’t care about the experience. I don’t need it to be a good time. Like, I want the work to be good. I want the work to be good. It’s like, if the work is good, if it’s beautiful, if it says what it’s supposed to say. Like, that’s all I care about. I don’t care about how the clients feel. Like, none of that matters. I’m like, I just want to put good work out into the world. And her and I are super aligned on that, like, and so we have great camaraderie, because it’s like, we’ll, we’ll scrap hard like her and I will fight constantly, but it’s a sign of respect, because she’s like, I know what you want. You want the work to be good.
And I can say, hey, I don’t think you’re doing this right, and I know what you want, which is, you want the work to be good. But then I have other employees that really have this, like, a deep need for harmony, like they need to feel like there is, like peace and, like, calmness and that there’s like, connection and respect. And I think an like, early version of me would have been, what’s the point of that? Like, why do you need that? That seems dumb. What’s so important at all? Who cares? Like, why do you need to feel connected? Like, just get the job and it’s fine. But now I realize how important that is, and for all of us, like we need people on the team that have, like, diversity of thought and experience.
And so it’s making room for those things and saying, like, I know you need to feel connected at the workplace. And how do I foster that? And sometimes it’s like, let’s have a 20 minute conversation about your dog or whatever. It’s like, I do those things because I’m like, this is how I show up for you. This is what’s meaningful for you. And so, giving everyone permission to take meaning from what they take meaning from, and to not say, oh, this is the thing you should derive meaning from. It should be this, because this is what it is. For me, it’s like, oh, no, that’s not. That might not be the same, but it’s still really important that we honor one another and learn how to share space and achieve things together.
Jeremy Weisz 27:42
How do you discover those things? I don’t know if there’s something in the hiring or onboarding process. I was talking to someone who’s an executive coach for companies, and he implements disc for example, type of things. Not every company does those types of assessments, but how do you as a company, discover those deep callings or people’s personalities, so there can be harmony among someone who just gets the job done and someone who’s like, I want to work harmoniously with everyone.
Stephanie Kochorek 28:16
Yeah, that’s such a fascinating thing for me. I had a business coach who was so profound for me, who I learned so much from. And what I didn’t know is that every like, all of those major personality tests, like whether it’s disc or Myers-Briggs or Enneagram, whatever, they actually all come back to Jung like they’re Jungian archetypes. And what’s really interesting is that, like we use Jungian archetypes to create brands, and actually all of the big brands use Jungian archetypes. So Disney is the innocent and the magician. It’s a pairing of those two archetypes that create the personality of Disney. Coca-Cola, just the innocent. Harley Davidson is the rebel.
So it’s funny, because I’m like, creating personalities for clients, and then I use the same like, we use the same thing in the office. We go by colors, but it’s like disc, same, same, you know. So everyone in my mind is like a red, yellow, yellow like, I know more or less, within like, 20 minutes of talking with someone, like, once you’re sort of used to it, like you can clock somebody and say, oh, right, like this is, and it’s not like, oh, that’s it. And they’re that forever, and there’s no nuance to it, but by and large, yeah, I find it really helpful, and then it has also really helped me explain my personality to other people, because they might be…
Jeremy Weisz 29:52
How you describe your personality?
Stephanie Kochorek 29:53
I’m incredibly results oriented. I like to, that’s when I’m happiest, when things are getting done. So I’m a strong D.
Jeremy Weisz 30:10
Do you have any favorite resources? Like you mentioned, there’s been leadership books, or, I don’t know, on this topic. Young union archetypes. What are some of your favorite you know, business or leadership resources.
Stephanie Kochorek 30:25
Yeah, my business coach, the one I was talking about, his organization, is called CultureSmith. He puts out a ton of he has a podcast. He puts out a ton of great content. All of that is really good, yeah, lots of books on young like, are you talking just in terms of the archetypes and how they…
Jeremy Weisz 30:47
It could be archetypes, or it could be leadership books that you’ve some of your favorites.
Stephanie Kochorek 30:52
Yeah, in terms of, like, brand personality, Debbie Millman, Design Thinking. Is phenomenal. It’s just essays. It’s a series of essays, really interesting from a leadership perspective. I mean, MasterClass is like killing it for me right. Now, I’m obsessed with Martha Stewart. I cannot get enough of her.
Jeremy Weisz 31:19
Why Martha Stewart?
Stephanie Kochorek 31:24
She’s 82 and she was on the cover of Sports Illustrated. She opened one of the top 50 restaurants in North America. She runs this, insane acreage. Everything is on point. And she just doesn’t like, she’s such a rebel, like, there’s no one who’s telling her what 82 looks like. She’s like, I’ll tell you what it looks like. I’ll be whoever I want to be, and I love that. I love when people break the mold and she was like, I’m gonna go to jail and become best friends with Snoop Dogg, like, just, and she’s like, and I’ll fold a napkin better than you do. Like, it’s like, cool, yeah, great. I love that you’re never would have put those things together, but it’s pretty magic that she has.
Jeremy Weisz 32:16
Yeah, Masterclass is great. One of my favorites is a Sarah Blakely one. That’s a really good one. But yeah, what’s that? I’m gonna watch that now. Yes, it’s really good, but yeah, I think of Martha Stewart now for the roasts. I don’t know if you’ve watched those roasts on YouTube. I mean, it’s her like he’s a Snoop Dogg and whoever else is there, but it’s fascinating to see her journey. And when we’re talking about the team and leadership, one of the things I know you’re thinking about a lot is the power of creating together and creating good teams. So how are you doing that going forward, now that you’ve kind of, just learned a lot and have lessons from your journey so far?
Stephanie Kochorek 33:03
Yeah, it’s a really complicated thing, especially for creatives. Like, there’s a deep vulnerability in creating. Like some people, if you were like, go draw a picture for me right now. Like they’re afraid, like they would feel really nervous to create anything. If I was like, write me a poem right now, like a lot of people will choke up and they don’t want to. So there’s so much bravery that’s involved with just doing any like creating anything, let alone creating and then you’re going to have a team of people that are going to tell you why that doesn’t work, why that might not be the thing, or why it does work. But there’s this deep trust that has to show up there, like trust in self and trust in the people around you in order to do that work. And like I don’t really have the answers for exactly how you make that meld together. I know a lot about what doesn’t work and what shouldn’t go on.
Jeremy Weisz 34:05
What have you found that doesn’t work?
Stephanie Kochorek 34:11
Not listening doesn’t work. Everyone needs to feel heard. They need to feel like their idea, whatever they’re coming to you with, was fully expressed and understood, and then they’re much more prepared to let it go. It’s like, I will hold on to it. If I’m like, no, you didn’t really get me. You didn’t really hear me. So listening is such a big one.
Jeremy Weisz 34:35
I like that. What else doesn’t work? So not listening will go the opposite of, sometimes it’s easier to think of what doesn’t work than actually what does.
Stephanie Kochorek 34:47
Yeah, it is. Okay, the other thing that doesn’t work, and I think this is a like, pretty universal mistake, it’s like jumping into criticism. Like, oftentimes, when people are asked to give feedback, criticism is, I’m gonna say, good criticism is really hard to do, basic criticism anybody can manage. Like to be a very powerful critic, I think is an art form, for sure, but to just criticize is, like, pretty, we can all do that. The people that I’ve worked with that are magic will find what’s working. They’ll see the glimmer, they’ll see the thing, they’ll look for that first. So I think not listen and you got to train your mind to not go to what’s not working first.
Jeremy Weisz 35:54
Yeah, I love it. From a lot of times, the power of story is really big, and the power of stories to influence and change. We are talking before we hit record. There’s some really cool organizations. Have you worked with? Own Cancer sticks out. Can you talk about Own Cancer and what you do with them.
Stephanie Kochorek 36:23
Yeah. So that was a bunch of different big Calgary organizations coming together, creating a capital campaign. So I think they needed $275 million. There was already a bunch of government funding, but the Calgary Cancer Center will be one of the leading cancer centers in North America. But they needed this chunk of change still, and then I think they also needed some swagger, like a reason to believe in themselves. So they came to us, and they wanted us to create a campaign and cancer is tricky, right? Like everybody knows somebody, like everyone has a person close to them that they lost to cancer, everyone.
So, the stakes are high emotionally already, and then, it was like during Covid. So also, everyone’s pretty burnt out on sadness, like it was like, I’m not gonna feel sad about one more thing, like, I don’t want to. I just can’t, like, I don’t care if, like, a baby penguin just got murdered, like I’m already so sad. Like, I can’t indulge that emotionally right now. And I think that’s the temperature of the cultural climate was just like, we’re done with that, like, it’s already super depressing, like, please don’t depress me more. So we wanted to give it a voice that had swagger. And that’s where the line Own Cancer came from.
Jeremy Weisz 38:01
There’s no more empowering than, like, sad.
Stephanie Kochorek 38:04
It’s not sad, yeah, it’s kind of like a big f-you to cancer. It’s like, we’re gonna do something about this. And then we super talented copywriter that was working for us wrote this really beautiful commercial where, like, in the beginning, you sort of think, like, cancer’s taking the patient down, but then you realize that’s us talking and we’re taking cancer down. That’s like, cancer, we’re coming for you with everything we’ve got. And we cat like, we used real people, like real people who are fighting cancer in the video, and there’s two of them that have since died, and so watching that video now, for me, like, I’ll get teary eyed, because it’s like, we got to do this, like, there has To be some bravado, there has to be some punch back, like there needs to be a bit of fight less tears.
Jeremy Weisz 39:08
So what kind of work did you end up having to do with them?
Stephanie Kochorek 39:13
So we created the platform, like the Own Cancer platform, which is a weird thing, but, but we actually, we do a lot of that. Like, we’re working, we have a Technology Institute here, and we’re helping them with, like, how do we brand our capital campaign? Like, what do we talk about as we’re trying to raise money, and it’s not a building and it’s not a program. So Own Cancer was the platform, the voice of that, and then, and there’s a visual identity that went along with that. There was a bunch of billboards, and then we created a television spot that they shared.
Jeremy Weisz 39:49
Talk about some of the milestone client milestones from starting your own agency. What was the first major milestone that you remember from a client perspective?
Stephanie Kochorek 40:00
Oh, yeah, probably Bow Valley College was a big one, like, I remember it was a big chunk of change for us at the time, and they wanted to rebrand and do a full advertising campaign. And I remember thinking, like, did they mean to call us? Like, do they know they just gave us this business? Like, are they sure?
Jeremy Weisz 40:29
How did they find you?
Stephanie Kochorek 40:30
We were big enough at the time that we were known like, and normally through like, you’ll get invited to an RFP. So they knew of us, but I felt like we were a long shot, like, just small, young, didn’t really have, like, a body of work that was super comparable. Yeah, and then when they awarded us the business like that was insane. I was thrilled and so proud of the work that we did with them, too, because Bow Valley College has a lot of short courses, it tends to be kids that go when they’re like, 21 or 22 and like Reddit was like, last chance you like, this is for the dummies. Like, it was really like, oh, you’re stupid. That’s why you went to Bow Valley College.
Was sort of the like, that’s what everybody thought at the time. But again, we dove into strategy, and it’s like, that’s not the case. Like, these are, like, the kids of immigrants, and they don’t have trust funds that are paying for their four year arts degree. Like, you know what I mean? Like, oh, you’re calling, you’re going to university. And, like, there’s a campus pub. Like, guess what? Bow Valley College doesn’t have that. Like, there are no intramurals because everyone there has to work. Like, talk about hustle culture. Like, that’s Bow Valley College, and interviewing the students and talking to the teachers like, you’re not going there if you’re lazy, like you just aren’t, you’re going there if you want to make moves in your life. And that was such a profound insight, and also felt so good, because this kind of vibe of like, oh yeah, it’s for the Dum Dums. It was like, No, it’s not like, we’re not telling that story anymore.
And it was disrespectful to the organization and to the students, like the brand was so not, was like, not the brand itself, but the brand perception was so misaligned with the ethos of the organization. So getting to tell that story felt amazing, and we did a great job. I’m still so proud of that work. I love seeing the work out there, and I know it’s massively changed their organization and how people see it. So that felt great.
Jeremy Weisz 42:57
What was another milestone from a client perspective?
Stephanie Kochorek 42:57
We got fired by a really big client, which was tough, like that was a hard one. We had a one, a really major piece of business, and it was just like they were not picking up what we were putting down. And we saw the writing on the wall. But when they were like, hey, like, it was a three year contract, and they fired us after two, and it was a big chunk of money, like, I was also like, that’s the Hertz from a financial perspective, but was so valuable on the other side, because I spent a lot of time thinking about what I wish I had done differently, and I did not use my voice like I just I felt like I had sort of tried, but I should have been more forceful sooner.
Forceful is maybe not the right word, but more articulate, convincing earlier on, instead of letting it get to where it got to and then, if we’d parted ways, it would have been very clear why we were parting ways, but I think there was some passivity. And, you know, we almost became like, order takers. We’re like, fine, like you’re a terrible client, like, we’ll just do what you want, but sort of like a pouty, like, a very immature response, whereas now I’m like, hey, I’m not seeing this problem the same way you’re seeing it, like, I really don’t think that this is the right way to proceed.
Jeremy Weisz 44:44
Push back a little bit more based on what your thoughts are, instead of like you may have disagreed with some of the instruction or requests.
Stephanie Kochorek 44:56
Yes, yeah. So it’s something now with my. Clients, I’m very mindful of like, if I don’t disagree, you are for sure. Like, if I think this is the wrong way to proceed, you are very much going to understand that. I’m going to have said it to you. It’s going to be in writing. We can still go do the thing that I don’t think is a good idea. That’s okay, but I’m really going to…
Jeremy Weisz 45:16
You said your piece. Anything else you would have done differently? So in that one case, you would have just been took a strong stance and been more vocal about it. And then it’s kind of up to them to make whatever decision they make, but at least you said your piece. Anything else, looking back, you would have done differently?
Stephanie Kochorek 45:21
Yeah. I mean, I feel it like, when the work is good and when there’s alignment, like I feel good. Like it makes me happy. I’m excited to go to work, like I’m into the meetings. Like there’s an energy to think, there’s a vibe, there’s a mood, when that’s not there anymore. Like I know right away now that something’s off and life is too short and to just continue on and sort of those like complacency, like we’re just drones all doing the same thing we’ve always done. I’m allergic to that energy. And now when that shows up, it’s like we got to switch it like this isn’t have the hard conversation say the thing, like, light the building on fire, but don’t proceed down sort of this track of banality.
Jeremy Weisz 46:34
Is that to you when you feel that, sometimes, I feel like people can’t put a finger on what it is. So do you just say that, like, hey, I’m feeling something’s off, like, and just open it that way. Or do you usually have an idea of, here’s why it’s off.
Stephanie Kochorek 46:59
I’ll feel it before I’ll be able to put words to it, for sure, it’s an intuitive thing, and now I’m just really diligent about putting words to it. And it’s like, I don’t mind saying like, these are my instincts. I think this is a bad way to go. Like, that’s instinctual. I don’t know the future. I can’t know this doesn’t feel right to me for these reasons, like, this is what’s coming up. I’m just sharing where I’m at. It doesn’t mean that I’m right. It just means, like, this is my perspective, and I want to give you the benefit of it, and I want the benefit of yours, because there’s other times where someone’s like, No, hey, look at it this way. And I’m like, okay, good point. Like, sweet, right?
Let’s move on. But I think if you don’t drive towards those hard conversations, and sometimes it’s like, the little peas under the mattress, like, Go search them out. Like, bring them to have tricky conversations, like, this is going to be so awkward, let’s talk about it anyways. Like, that makes me happier, that makes work better, makes relationships better.
Jeremy Weisz 48:08
No thanks for sharing that. That’s really helpful to hear how you think about it. Stephanie, I have one last question before I ask it. I just want to point people towards daughtercreative.com to learn more. So if you’ve watched the video at this point, you’ve seen some of the work and cool stuff that they do, but you can check it out at their website as well. Last question is, just mentors who have been influential on your business career life. I know you mentioned the coach at the CultureSmith, who are some other mentors from a business perspective for you that have imparted some interesting lessons.
Stephanie Kochorek 48:52
Yeah, shout out to my dad on this one. He’s also an EO, and a very talented entrepreneur.
Jeremy Weisz 49:02
What is his business?
Stephanie Kochorek 49:06
It’s called Long View. So it’s a very established IT company with offices across North America. And I watched him, he’s had two businesses, and I watched him grow and sell one and then grow the other. And the lessons he learned along the way, you know, a lot of them, I just sort of absorbed through osmosis, almost. But his ethos, the way he thinks about business and the purpose of it has been super powerful. And also the way he treats clients and employees and the people in his ecosystem has always been the gold standard for me.
Jeremy Weisz 49:55
Awesome, Stephanie, I want to be the first one to thank you. Everyone, check out more episodes of the podcast. Check out daughtercreative.com, and we’ll see everyone next time. Stephanie, thanks so much.
Stephanie Kochorek 50:05
So nice chatting with you. Thank you.