Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 15:45
Yeah. A couple of things that stuck out for me, Shawn, on that. Thanks for sharing the management stuff, which is, you know, being too nice. Also just going over and explaining goals and also boundaries, right. And people have certain expectations.
One thing I’ve heard you talk about when I was doing research for this is from a client you were talking about, you know, kind of navigating customer service and results. And I’ve heard you talk about managing expectations with the client. Right. I’d love to hear a time when you had to manage expectations and maybe, like you mentioned, pushing back a little bit. Does one stick out for you? Managing expectations with the client.
Sean Grabowski: 16:34
Absolutely. You know, it’s something we do every day. And it’s something that I think if you look at it this way, if a client there are there are rules. They’re not they’re not rules, but they are almost laws as to the physics of how ads work. Ads, for example, they learn from data.
When you’re using campaigns, they learn from conversion data. So you need conversions happening to even benefit from the learning, right? If you have no conversions, then nothing. You don’t have any momentum yet. And that’s what companies are dealing with when they’re starting from scratch with marketing.
So almost every day, you know, in my role nowadays running the team and helping grow the business, I helped a lot of sales calls. I had two this morning. Probably going to have another one after this from somebody who’s asking for a conversation and The realistic time for where the the vast majority of my managing expectations comes is basically during the onboarding stage and during sales. Because the truth is, if you’re if you’re brand new, if you’re a company investing in ads for the first time and you have no data about what works and what doesn’t, nobody can go in there and just turn ads on and get you a zillion sales. That’s a pipe dream that goes against the physics of how ads work.
Even if you strip out the fact that AI learns from who buys from you to then show ads to more people who are like those people who buy from you. To do that, you need to have data feeding the AI first. So you have to go through the painful period of acquiring data manually. It’s undeniable. The other thing is just ads.
In general, the science of it is a scientific method where you’re trying one thing and you’re trying another. This is an oversimplified example, but if you try one ad, you try one ad, you try one ad, you let the data do the talking of which one drives results. And then you move forward to phase two, where you create more ads that are like the ad that worked, and then you doubled down and things get better and better incrementally. So long story short, I get tons of people coming to us saying this. This month I had somebody come to me saying, hey, you know, we have a charter company, we need to get the New Years is coming up.
That’s our biggest day of the year. We need to get sales. We don’t have ads running. This is December 15th. It takes a week to even start ads, and then it takes 2 to 3 months to ramp up ads.
And that’s just the industry standard. Some businesses, it takes 4 or 5 months, sometimes six. And that’s just how ads work. So I have to manage people’s expectations all the time during onboarding. And it’s not it’s not for me to bring them down to reality.
It’s because inevitably, if their expectation is here, and this is what I’m actually capable of delivering, even in a best-case scenario. Our relationship isn’t going to work because they’re inevitably going to end up happy. But the problem there is that the delta between realistic and there, it’s just this is a made-up situation. They will be upset about not getting something that’s not even possible to achieve. So I have to bring them back down to earth and then gauge their interest again.
You know, that’s realistic. This is how ads work. Do you still like the sound of it? This is what every business that goes through, every business that has successful ads, goes through that painful start. That’s something that I have to explain to people every single day.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 20:05
Honestly sometimes I feel like when you talk about this, it can be a client selection because some people may go, Sean, sure, let’s just do it. But they never really I don’t know if you’ve experienced this, maybe didn’t hear everything you were saying. There was like, yeah, let’s just get started. Sean. And then their expectation is still at the point where they were before.
I don’t know if you found that to happen.
Sean Grabowski: 20:31
Yeah, absolutely. So I’ve you know, the longer I run this business, the more I have it baked in. Reminders that that’s what to expect. Just because, again, things go over people’s heads. Sometimes we don’t hear what people are saying and we just hear what we want to hear.
And we all do that. We’re all victims of that from time to time. So what I do is I have mentions of that in my discovery, call in my proposal, call in my contract. And it still happens. You know, it still happens where we will start one month in.
They’ll be frustrated with results and it’s not realistic to expect results at that time anyways. So at least I can kind of go back and say, hey, we talked about this 3 or 4 different times. So that’s kind of my approach nowadays. And again, it’s not to demean people, it’s just that bring it back to workability. This business is a service business about giving people something that helps them.
That expectation makes it unworkable for me to even give them what they want. And it also doesn’t work for us being able to deliver the work either. So it just comes back to we can’t do our best work if that’s an expectation.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 21:40
So what was the point? I mean, again, you could have kept working with these big agencies, working with really big clients, with big budgets. What made you finally strike out on your own?
Sean Grabowski: 21:53
You know, there’s a few different reasons. Some of my really close friends became entrepreneurs. I mentioned previously really briefly that they’re cinematographers and photographers and that especially is a pretty interesting lifestyle when you’re a 20-year-old. And so my friends, you know, were early 20s and I’m in university and then working in the corporate world and they’re out there. Truthfully, more successful than me in terms of career opportunities and finances.
And they have flexibility, and they get to work with who they like to work with. I’ve always been really inspired by those guys and entrepreneurship in general. So I’ve been studying it since day one, especially from working at that small agency. The owner has become a good friend of mine. He was a really positive entrepreneurial influence on me.
So the number one thing I’ll say is, again, entrepreneurship just excited me. I’ve always been somebody who’s very self-driven. I just need something to care about. The other thing is. The reality is I ended up in a pretty high-demand job.
Let’s put it that way. And it worked out, you know, it was going great. I learned a ton. I was running ads for one of the biggest, biggest companies in Canada that a lot of people around the world have heard of. They were my only client.
I was still at Group M, but I was managing a team of ad managers that were on their account, and it was a brand new agency. That Group M had propped up for this client to do everything digital for them from their traditional advertising, you know, copywriters and creative direction all the way to the digital media. And it was brand new. And the systems talk about SOPs and lack of processes.
This was a brand new agency that created out of thin air when they got that contract, and it was total startup mode, complete chaos, and it was incredibly stressful. And I just hit a breaking point where I just kind of realized if I’m going to work, I and I have worked very hard and through a lot of stress as a business owner, I think every business owner, that’s the price you pay. It’s very hard to avoid that. But I knew that I wasn’t really willing to do that for that company anymore at that point in time. It was an amazing learning opportunity.
I met a lot of people who are good friends of mine, but I was inspired to strike out on my own and pursue entrepreneurship, and it kind of pushed me to a breaking point, which I’m actually grateful allowed me to get here as well.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 24:26
When you struck out on your own, talk about the first big milestone from a client perspective. Right. You go from working with these huge clients, then how do you go out and you have to get your own clients now?
Sean Grabowski: 24:40
Yeah, yeah. You know, there’s been so many milestones that it’s pretty. I could name a whole bunch of them, but I’ll just name the first one. But I think initially, the truth is I went out on my own. I was sending proposals and trying to create conversations and opportunities literally from the day I sat at my.
The moment I sat at my desk until the end of the day. And my day would essentially, for most of that time, consist of going to the gym in the morning, sitting at my computer literally all day unless we had dinner plans. My girlfriend and I had dinner plans with some friends, and I did that for months and months and months.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 25:25
And when you say the computer, you’re just setting off emails. What are you doing?
Sean Grabowski: 25:29
Setting off emails, setting up coffee meetings, you know, just trying to, like, talk to people and learn from them as well. I had a business coach that I hired right off the start that helps people get established on Upwork and sending proposals on Upwork. So a lot and a lot of proposals — a ton. I think I counted it. I sent 70 proposals before I had two interested people.
I didn’t get either of those jobs. I think on proposal 84 is when I got a job and it was a small job that sucked, to be honest with you.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 26:09
The lucky 84. Yep.
Sean Grabowski: 26:12
Yeah. Your hockey.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 26:13
Jersey? No no.
Sean Grabowski: 26:16
No. That actually is not. But that would be pretty funny if it was. But yeah, you know, so I would say getting the first client was a milestone. But there are a few different milestones there.
You know, it took me probably two months of, like I said, doing almost nothing but sending proposals all day and to get a job once I got one job. There’s a little bit of evidence on the Upwork profile that allowed me to get another job. Another job. Once you have three, four, five reviews publicly on your Upwork profile, it’s one of those places. These are all verified reviews, right?
Because the money and the job flows through the platform. You just start getting more and more social proof. Ultimately, to this day is the absolute biggest driver of more, more good qualified candidates reaching out to us. I think for me, the biggest milestone felt like when I could pay my bills, when I was back to there were two milestones in that first six months. There was one when I could pay for everything I wanted at the time, you know, my bills and going out for dinner maybe a little bit more.
The second milestone is probably when I hit the same income that I had. I got the balloons going on Zoom here from doing the peace sign, but the second milestone would be when I hit the same level of income that I used to have. That was a big milestone for me. That kind of felt like, I’m going to be fine.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 27:41
Yeah. I want to talk about hiring. I remember those days, Shawn, where I would go out to eat on Friday just to celebrate the week, and I would go out with a friend. We’d go to Chili’s, and we’d split bottomless chips and salsa and a fajita platter. So like, we were only spending whatever it was, like 15, whatever it was at the time, right?
Because that’s what we could afford. And that was like our big night out each week. So I don’t take that for granted in the beginning. It’s you, right? You’re doing everything.
You’re running everything. Talk about hiring and the key roles you put in place over time.
Sean Grabowski: 28:23
Yeah, absolutely. So I think this might be a good time for me to shout-out my business coach, Mike Mullen. So I. You know, my girlfriend and I, we both work remotely. So we actually packed up and went down to Mexico to live in Mexico for about a year.
And it was awesome waking up without winter. You know, I’m in Canada, here in Vancouver where we have the mildest winters in the country, but still, you still get a winner. And it’s pretty nice to dodge that and get plenty of vitamin D. So we were doing that and working remotely, having a cheaper lifestyle, which was great as well, I think that was actually a valuable thing for starting my business, was being able to live somewhere where money went a lot further and I could reinvest more. But I’m walking along the beach one day and some of my friends from town, a group of Canadians down in Mexico are just hanging out, having a little bonfire.
And I meet this guy there named Mike Mullen. He’s a business guy, a business coach for solopreneurs who basically helps them put systems in place or build a team or a small, small business. And he had built agencies in the past for exactly what I do for PPC, for Google ads and Facebook ads. And I was stuck on hiring. I was stuck on getting these contracts that didn’t really pay enough margin to be able to hire people.
I was at max capacity. Just the only way for me to make more money was to push myself further. And there wasn’t really more to push. My stress levels were pretty maxed out and so was my time and everything. But he helped me grow a team, and I grew a team by team by putting SOPs in place and putting standards and having everything be systematized.
And I also learned a lot about hiring and who to hire and how to hire through working with him. You know, somebody who’s already been through this exact situation. So that was a game changer for me. I initially started hiring people in South America initially to get things going because, again, my problem at that time was my contracts weren’t as large. And that’s how I started basically hiring people who were still fluent in English and excellent at what they do.
They just lived in places where I could pay them an amount they’re really happy about, and it still worked for the size of the contracts that we were dealing with at that point.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 30:46
What did you discover and learn in the hiring process? What does the hiring process look like?
Sean Grabowski: 30:52
Well, I have learned it’s hard to find good people. And in my situation where I usually hire people as freelancers before we go beyond that and kind of try them out. Essentially, I found one of the things is that I lined people up well in advance. So when I know I’m going to have a capacity issue in six months, I’ll start talking to people. Now, I’ll start putting feelers out there, and it’s partially to line up some good potential candidates.
It’s also to learn what people want. It’s also to learn what kind of skill is available and what it costs at that point in time, because I think those things are always fluctuating depending on the job market. But what I definitely think that I’ve learned is that. I hire the best fit for the job. It doesn’t really matter where they are.
I have somebody in Portugal. I have somebody in Brazil. I had a girl in Argentina at one point who ended up moving. I have had someone in Peru. I had somebody in Costa Rica.
I had a Canadian who was living in Costa Rica, I had someone in Vancouver. I have somebody in Toronto. So there’s I’ve realized that for me, I just hire for the job. It really comes down to who’s the best candidate. And that is the most important variable for me.
I think that there’s a lot of these rules in the marketplace where people say, I’m only, you know, if you’re a Vancouver-based agency like me, it’d be easy for me to just only hire people in Vancouver. But I’m looking to have the best quality output we can possibly have. I’m not going to. I really just look for the best people wherever they are. And I have found that there are a lot of them that are not in North America, because you also need to look at incentivization.
What kind of incentives are going to be exciting for people? And sometimes the incentives are hard to provide for people in certain places depending on where they live. So that’s one lesson. I think the other lesson is hiring people based on their excitement and interest. So somebody could be the best candidate for the job.
But their demeanor is that this is a no-brainer for them. And this is easy, and that’s just an easy task for them. And then there’s somebody else who’s super curious and interested. You know, I got hired at Group M. And the team leader at the time was hiring me for a job that was basically an associate manager, not a manager, but just one step beneath that.
And there were people who were. This is when I first joined Group M, there were people who were coordinators who were better than me. And I kind of asked him, why am I in a role where there are people better than me down in the next role? And he basically said, you know, I’m hiring based on ambition and interest and curiosity and your ability to learn. I’m hiring on what where you’re going to be in another year.
I’m not I’m not necessarily hiring on where you’re at now. And I have found that to be an incredibly successful strategy. If you have five candidates, but one of them is so much more curious and excited. That person’s going to love the opportunity, and they’re going to go the extra mile to solve problems. And that’s been a really valuable lesson for me.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 34:04
That’s a great one, Shawn. Thanks for sharing that. I had David Barton who started Door Loop and he was talking about this too. Exactly what you’re talking about. I think they raised $130 million.
They at the time of 200, he’s like, we’re gonna hire another 200 people this next year. I was asking him about like, how do you like hiring 200 people in a very short period of time? And he said what you said was basically making the process, not that not like difficult, but not easy. Right? So the application’s long, they’re looking for people who put effort in and will make, you know, create like longer answers and actually put the effort and time in as opposed to just kind of trying to glide through, you know what I mean? So I love that. You mentioned Mike mole, and obviously mentorship is huge. I love to hear any other mentors. It could be colleagues of yours that you’ve learned from. It could be distant mentors, like books that you’ve learned from too. Who are some of your, you know, mentors or colleagues or books or any resources?
Sean Grabowski: 35:16
Yeah. Great question. One of the best things. Well, you know, mentorship and coaching has been priceless for me. So again, I mentioned Mike mole.
I had a different coach before Mike. I joined a separate program for a little bit as well for a different coaching program. I’m actually coaching with Mike Mullen again right now. He has a genius opinion on sales. So we’re working together for a little while now.
And I think I would just shout out their names, but it’s basically other agency owners who are in the exact same position as me. Those people have been really awesome. There’s a guy named Damian Forsyth who I’ve chatted with a bit, and my friend Daniela. She owns findable, findable, findable digital marketing there, an SEO company based out of Toronto. I like that.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 36:06
Name. Findable.
Sean Grabowski: 36:07
Yeah, they’re a really good SEO agency. I also have a friend named Alvin Ding, who I chat with quite a bit, who used to be a growth manager at, at Airbnb and, and Upwork as well, actually. And so being able to collaborate and chat with them and a few other founders I know who are in similar positions has been priceless. Like, I have basically quarterly calls with a lot of people like them. And, and we just, you know, talk back and forth about what’s working for us and what we’re learning and what we’re not.
I’m also part of an entrepreneurship community called the Dynamite Circle. So it’s for remote first companies. It’s a paid community to join, which it’s not a lot to join, but you do need to apply and you do have to pay. And by doing that, it kind of gatekeeps it to being a pretty awesome group. And everyone there is in a very similar situation to me.
So I’ve been going to their meetups and what they are. Is there a remote-first company? They’re like basically digital nomads, to be honest with you, probably half of the people in the group are digital nomads. I met that community and a bunch of people in it when I was living in Mexico, meeting people who are true digital nomads, just bouncing around the globe, living in beach town to beach town while growing legitimate companies. And I found them to be an incredibly good resource because every time I go to a new city, you know, I was down visiting Portland just on a road trip with my girlfriend in the summer, and I just messaged in the Portland Channel and I go, hey, is anyone here?
And lo and behold, two guys who I met at the conference were there, and they brought out another friend and just had a great chat. And I do that everywhere I go because this community has people everywhere. So being part of communities of entrepreneurs is priceless. You can reach out to people. I think once you I don’t know what it is.
This one it feels like because it’s a paid community, there’s kind of like a gate. And once you’re in the gate, everyone will be friendly and open to you. Because you’re almost like pre-vetted as being legitimate and interesting. So yeah, that’s I.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 38:20
Find the groups that I’ve been a part of that I pay for. You know, people respect it more too. Right? And they put effort in because they’re paying for it. Right?
Sean Grabowski: 38:31
Absolutely. Yeah, 100%.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 38:33
So we’ll check that out for sure. On the paid ad side, first of all thanks for sharing some of those learnings, Shawn, on the paid ad side. Right. I’d love to hear your learnings on that, right. And I know you work with all sorts of companies, from sports retailers to telehealth to SaaS.
Let’s talk about SaaS for a second and talk about, you know, a little bit about one of the SaaS companies you helped and what you did.
Sean Grabowski: 38:59
Yeah. Of course. So we help quite a few SaaS companies, probably about 33% of our clients are SaaS. So there’s a lot of examples here. Most companies come to us when they’ve already been running ads for a while and they are failing, or they’re having problems because they are trying to have a generalist marketing manager run it, or they are running it themselves, or they’re just not managing it.
A lot of companies get rid of an agency and just don’t manage it for about six months or a year until they have another wake-up call and they are forced to find someone. This company that I’ll share now they basically generate contracts for a few different industries. So they came to us. They’re based in Europe, but they do target their international, their contracts that apply to a lot of different countries. And we run their Google Ads campaigns.
They came to us, I think, about two years ago now, and they just couldn’t figure out how to scale their account. Ultimately, that was the main challenge. It was hitting the ceiling of what’s profitable at a lot lower amount than we’re hitting it now. So what we came in and we came in and optimized everything. We found more efficient ways to spend the money.
We obsessed over what kind of creative assets they’re using, what kind of imagery and video they’re using, intentionally using a scientific method to test them. Test out different videos and images to identify what leads to better conversion rates. And through that and through a whole bunch of management. They’re just one of many case studies. Long story short, every client on our roster is month to month.
So I consider everyone who stays with us is winning. That’s the only reason they would ever stay with us. But in this example, we’ve been able to basically double their ad spend and increase the ROAS by almost an entire point. So to be able to scale and improve ROAS is a pretty massive, pretty massive win for most companies.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 40:59
I know you were saying, Sean, a lot of companies will come to you and it’s just not working. So you go in and you probably audit the account. I’m curious, what are the biggest mistakes you see these companies making?
Sean Grabowski: 41:13
Yeah. Great question. I would say some of the biggest mistakes would just be not modernizing the account. Google ads has changed a lot. And, you know, let’s just zoom out and look what’s happened with technology in the last three years.
AI has become front and center, and AI allows ad campaigns to do better. As far as finding people who are likely to be consumers of yours when they’re showing ads to anyone. And basically, I think the structures in Google ads campaigns of how to structure your campaign, your account as far as where to break out campaigns, how many to have, what they should target, what settings. There was a relatively consistent time for like seven years, almost straight, where you only things didn’t change that much year over year. As to what best practices were in the last three years, that has changed quite a lot.
Because if you just kind of think about what ads, what AI does. You used the magic used to be in what kind of settings. What really nuanced settings you can do compared to the other ad manager next door. Nowadays, a lot of those bidding settings are done automatically using AI. So the people getting the best performance have campaigns that are structured in ways that make AI function better.
So a really simple example of that would be a lot of people would have like eight campaigns and they only have 1 or 2 products, but they just have eight different campaigns they’re testing. The AI is on the campaign level, the bid strategies. So it’s much more effective to have 1 or 2 campaigns that have way more data inside of it, because then the AI in the bid strategy can do a much better job of targeting the right audience, as opposed to having eight campaigns with thin data. That’s probably, if I were to say one thing that most companies do wrong, it’s probably that they segment their campaigns out into way too many small campaigns, the way that used to make sense.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 43:19
I love to, first of all, Sean, thank you. I have one last question. All right. Before I ask it, I want to point people to check out. You can learn more at Coopers digital.com to learn more.
And you can check out more episodes of the podcast. And, you know, for you, I’d love to hear about, you know, you were mentioning the sales process a little bit and you’ve kind of refined that, you know, in the beginning, I love to see the evolution to what it looks like. Now, in the beginning, you’re at the computer just firing off emails, right? And then it’s, you know, the lucky number 84 or whatever it is, you got the first client. Once you get someone in, talk about the process a little bit because you were mentioning you have kind of a refined process for doing that.
And that is an onboarding process of a client right from discovery call. What does that process look like for you? If someone’s like, you know what, this sounds interesting. Sean, how does the process work? You know, to work with you?
Sean Grabowski: 44:24
Yep. Yeah. I love this question. First thing I’ll say is I don’t give a proposal to anyone who I’m not confident I can deliver value. So there’s a couple things And there’s a couple things in there.
There’s also clients that don’t meet my criteria. And again, the criteria isn’t for me to exclude people or anything like that. The criteria is because it limits us to our ability to do the best that we can. We’re in a fortunate position where I have too many people reaching out truthfully. But the reality is a lot of them are not the right fit.
So before I even hop on a call, I am either filtering people, saying, okay, can you let me know a little bit more about your company? Send me the URL. How many years have you been in business? What is your budget? What is your goal?
And I usually try and get that information before I even book a discovery call. And this is just because I really have to safeguard our time with how many people are inquiring. And if they’re not the right fit, I refer them to some other partners that we have who might be the right fit for them. I have a good a few agencies that are much more comfortable working with smaller accounts, or companies that are brand new and have higher risks. So I’ll refer them out.
After that, I hop on a discovery call. My discovery call. The goal is to again tell people the expectations upfront. As far as the realistic blanket expectations that I can give them about this is how ads work. I also tell them about our business.
You know who we are. We’re a Google Premier partner agency. We’re expert vetted. Top 1% on Upwork. I got to kind of verify that they understand who we’re on, who they’re on the phone with, or who they’re on a zoom call with.
And then I primarily just go in trying to understand their business inside and out. Again, there’s a lot that goes into the success of ads that is beyond the ads. Like, do you have the ability to create good web pages? Do you have the ability to edit web pages so that we can AB test them? What is your sales process like?
There are companies that don’t have any sales process. They just bank on people calling and signing up right away. Ads will never solve your problems if you don’t have any processes in place at all. Ads amplify what you already have. So I make sure that they have the things on their end that lead to success.
Otherwise, again, it’s not about me excluding them, it’s just about workability. They either have to be willing to put those in place, or we’re just not the right fit because I can’t do our best quality of work if they have all these limiting factors, because they will ultimately come back and be upset about it later.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 46:54
It’s your fault.
Sean Grabowski: 46:55
Exactly. So I’m very upfront about all that, and I get as much information as I can. You know, what is your close rate? What is your sales process? Do you do email marketing?
Who handles sales? How many times do they follow up? What is the lifetime value of a customer? What is your close rate? I get everything and then I take that and I do estimates or I look at their ad account and I do actually come to the table with something tangible for the next call.
Again, at the odd time I will go and do the estimates for a company. The estimates don’t look good. They actually are a massive red flag that Google ads or Facebook ads are not the right channel for them. And I’ll just be honest, because again, I’m a service provider. I’m a business owner.
That’s what I would want people to do to me, do for me. So it’s again another stage of the vetting process. The hope is that when I hop on a sales call, I’m only hopping on with qualified people who are in the right fit to succeed. And then I’ll give them a proposal that’s not based on nothing. It’s not just based on this is who we help, and this is the price it’s based on.
I literally looked into your business. I’m confident that we can bring value. Here’s the exact strategy and everything we will need to succeed. And here are the estimates that apply to your specific industry. Because the cost per click is always different depending on different industries and different places.
So my proposals are very tailored to what they need. And then if they say yes, you know, some companies say yes on the call. Some companies say yes a week later. Some companies say yes in three months or six months. As soon as they say yes, my project manager immediately sends them an onboarding guide.
The onboarding guide has instructions like send us access to this, send us this, send us this. If you have any files, put them in this folder and it literally details every step. And it. It has questions of all the information we need. And as long as that’s filled out we can onboard very quickly.
And then my project manager can send them access or request access to their account, send them the contract, send them the invoice. And it’s all quite smooth from there.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 48:53
Love it. No, I appreciate that, Sean. Thank you. Thanks for sharing. I want to encourage people to check out Keeper’s Digital Comm.
More episodes of the podcast and we’ll see everyone next time. Sean, thanks so much.
Sean Grabowski: 49:05
Yeah, thanks for having me.
