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Scott Couvillon 4:41

Yeah, no, I think I think it’s a it’s Miss. I mean, look, the conversation about purpose is not a new one. This has been in organizations and rasa surges conscious capitalism, where he’s talking about, you know, what the defining trait of some of the highest performing nonprofit companies what they have in common. I mean, this has been talked about for a long time. But I do think that there has been a just a misconstruing that that purposeful is altruistic. And that’s not necessarily the case. You know? Absolutely companies that are altruistic and I would say that TOMS Shoes has an altruistic bent to it. And if you buy a pair of shoes, someone else is going to get one. And that is definitely a part of their culture, but but a non altruistic purpose. You take Amazon, you know, they’re not, they’re not giving anything to anybody in Africa, as far as I know, but, but their promise is not necessarily, you know, it is practical in nature, but the promise is convenience. And if that is what we believe that our relationship with them is predicated upon, as long as it is convenient, they are satisfying that promise, you know, if they were saying they were convenient, and they were inconvenient, you know, because their culture didn’t wasn’t united and convenience, that the product or customer experience had nothing in it was not convenient, then advertising, we’d be making a promise that the company wasn’t trying to keep but and really that’s the that’s the that’s the bit, you know, if if a bank were honest, and said, you know, we are in the business of making max profit for our shareholders, well, then, when we experienced, you know, loan terms from that bank, we wouldn’t be shocked, because we know who it is it ultimately, they serve. Now, banks aren’t that honest, when they are serving a principle like that. And usually, marketers are more dishonest than honest, making a promise to consumers, it just isn’t true. In practice, because the experience doesn’t live up to what the advertising promise was. And the culture isn’t united in that purpose. So but yeah, purpose doesn’t need to be nice, doesn’t need to be altruistic, it just needs to be emotional, it needs to be clear, and then it needs to be alive. And then the organization, it’s easy to talk to it Mads, it’s a little harder to live it. But when you do, and these are what the most, some of the most functional, highest net sustained profit companies in the world have in common. They’re united in a belief. The culture is bathed in it, everybody buys into it, they’re happy to be there. turnover is low executive retention is high supply chain isn’t measurable, everything. These are easier companies to run. That’s the same culture that’s responsible for a customer experience, that customer experience is going to be an extension of that belief, advertising just becomes an invitation to participate in that culture through the experience of you know, typically predicated on a purchase, but not exclusive to it. You know, an iPhone is a phone, just like galaxy is a phone, but we have a deeper connection between iPhone buyers and Apple than there are in between galaxy owners. And Samsung, nothing bad about Samsung, but it’s part of the reason why iPhone can fetch twice as much.

Jeremy Weisz 8:05

I love to walk through I love my Samsung, by the way, but probably not as passionate about it as the iPhone users and people trying to convert me over Why don’t you have an iPhone? But um, I’d love to understand more about your work to Scott through Credit Human. And what did you do there?

Scott Couvillon 8:25

Yep, well, credit humans are an awesome story. I mean, that is a it’s a financial institution in San Antonio, Texas. You know, they have been they have great plans, but it was an organization that was in, you know, by all accounts, great shape, or they had, you know, a lot of money under management, they had an aging membership, it’s a credit union. So it’s, it’s a member organization, they’re technically nonprofit. So, they serve their members more than than shareholder shareholders. But there was this CEO came in by the name of Steve Hennigan, you know, great guy, not I need to leave a great legacy but just naturally a legacy lever and and really came in with a with a, an amazing business acumen but also an emotional premise that he was going to remake this organization from the inside out now, rather than just being selfless and services members which conceivably every credit union should be they were very discreet and very specific and we we were fortunate enough to kind of be along for the ride from from the inception from when he came on and the definition of that purpose you know, deciding to be something very specific serving you know, the dignity of those members by creating financial slack and members that was how they were going to do it. It the conversations about products and services that this is efficient was gonna offer was almost tertiary, you know, the, the, what they were going to mean, in the life of the members was of utmost importance. Now, the The organization really bought into that. And then when they started thinking about what are the products of the things that we’re going to build, you know, because they don’t exist, and we need them to, if we’re going to really live this purpose, what are the things that we’re doing, that are contrary to what we’ve articulated is this belief, and they got rid of those things. So they invented practices, but not from just leadership top down, but by empowering and enabling, you know, individuals all the way through the culture from top to bottom to just understand what the purpose is believe in why you’re here and be excited about being here and, and how would that affect your day to day. So while they ultimately changed their name, from San Antonio credit union, to credit human, that moniker is shorthand for a real true emotional, honest alignment inside of that organization, it’s not just a clever play on words. So they were really able to bring that from the from the inside out. And, and it shows, you know, the, the, the satisfaction of members and satisfaction of employees, everybody’s buying into something, they’re not just, you know, buying second savings and checking accounts and auto loans, the kinds of things that you would expect to find from from any fiduciary,

Jeremy Weisz 11:23

you know, it starts with the internal culture, how do they organizationally, disseminate that? How do they actually embed that, so that the staff like lives, it breathes it?

Scott Couvillon 11:34

Yeah, no, it’s, that’s, that’s the most critical part, right? though, it should be said that purpose is not something that, you know, when we are working, when we’re involved in the infant steps and stages of this process, we’re not making something up that we hope that grow into, I think it’s important to note that, you know, 99 times out of 100, unless you’re talking to a true practical, you know, founded with venture capital commodity product manufacturer, where you do have to invent a story, you do have to actually fabricate something that wasn’t there. These elements of, you know, the values weren’t written this way, but the values of the organization were, you know, more dignified than normal, maybe they help that they’re a nonprofit credit union, as opposed to a for profit bank. But even beyond that, there were things evident in the culture. Nonetheless, the job one is drawing out distilling, you know, articulating what that core belief is simplifying it to the point that it can be activated, you know, at every level inside of the organization, and then that rollout is not unimportant, you know, when you’re, ideally, there would be participation throughout the organization and the development of that of that narrative. But in some organizations, that’s, that’s easier said than done. But that internal transmission is really important. In fact, it’s not always the case for their clients, but especially in the case of that particular situation. There were two, maybe three years of internal work, rethinking, retraining, started with the executives, when all the way down into the employee base, but really offering people the opportunity to buy in, you know, really offering people the opportunity to escape, if they didn’t want to buy it. And, and bringing the organization around to that, you know, to the depth that they did, it was really amazing for us to watch because, you know, we’re not complaining that is pushing an advertising launch back two or three years. Because by the time we’re out there making a promise, we can make a an honest commitment to a marketplace, because we know that the company has to be able to keep that promise once people start walking through the door with that, with that in mind. So but that transmission is is not an important, you know, we call these brand transformations when you go from either not being something to being something or to being the wrong thing. You know, we are here to make money. And that is it, you know, profit as a result, not a focus or a goal. And if it is, it’s like that squiggly thing in your eye you log in, you try to look at it, the less likely you are to see it. But, you know, when you see profit as a result, and being very intentional, as the focus and the goal, it’s kind of the only predictable way to get the result of being profitable. So that you have to bring internal along for the ride. You know, we we talk all the time about because we’re in an advertising agency. It is safer for us to talk about features and benefits and do free delivery and and 99 cent off promotion kind of stuff as an advertising agency because those things work. You know, advertising is an efficient, unfortunately, sometimes and efficient, you know, mechanism. It’s why you know, So many people are in debt overweight, but but the reality is, is that advertising works, it’s actually safer to be practical and to be a manufacturer that promotes what they make. Even though it’s a practical premise, you’re never gonna have a disproportionate return or a true connection with consumers. But that’s safer than you know, when when companies really go wrong, is when they’re out there using communications or advertising, which is very easy to change. Group, any creative group, and you’re going to probably wind up with something that can be very emotional and engaging, and exciting and interesting. It’s got to be really careful. Because if you’re making an emotional promise to the marketplace, then they come in, and that is not the experience that they have in the organization. It’s, it’s disastrous, you actually would have been far better off just offering free delivery and more cheese.

Jeremy Weisz 15:53

Come on, you know, what is also interesting, Scott, is the core departments in your company. Talk about that ?

Scott Couvillon 16:02

Yeah, I mean, we have, there’s really only this three, there’s three disciplines, three departments within Trumpet. It is. It’s a client service, which is really the hub, you know, there’s two parts of that there’s the relationship management part and the project management part, we have to keep the trains running on time. And we have to manage through that, you know, this is a service business advocate. But really, the only two resource departments under roof at Trumpet that that client services can draw upon his creative and strategy, then that’s it. Now we are doing obviously, a lot of upstream work with leadership teams. And that’s where creative strategy can have, you know, great importance. But the other reason for that is that as we get downstream into advertising execution, not speaking ill of all of my colleagues who I love, and all full service advertising agencies, but we have just chosen not to have the PR execution resources, or the meeting the paid media buying resources, or the digital development resources under roof, because in my experience, you know, if you, if your PR group is slow, PR is a pretty good idea as a scope for whatever a client’s particular challenges. And that’s that, you know, being having, you know, we’re responsible for the creative and strategic resources, but we don’t need to keep the departments busy when they’re not the right, tactical executional solution for a particular problem. So we

Jeremy Weisz 17:31

just deployed them when necessary.

Scott Couvillon 17:34

Yeah. And we bring in partners that we that we’re networked with, you know, that we spend, I spend a lot of my time finding organizations at the kind of the executional extreme of our business. And, and if we’re kindred spirits, and they realize that, basically, they’re gonna start with a better premise, a better starting point, when they’re executing, what we’re working with our clients to execute. You know, these, these are campaigns that that worked really well. So I mean, you can have an awesome media, paid media practitioner, and you know, they can do their job great. And the analytics are going to be amazing, because of the, you know, the the recurrence that comes when there’s, you know, this lack of dissonance, that being purposeful tribes and situation. So we’re able to really partner with our network execution groups, not because clients have realized that it’s a commodity, and everybody can do it. That’s not exactly true. But it’s not necessarily the part of the relationship that clients value most. The strategic and the creative is is arguably valuable. I don’t want to say more valuable, but, but it is definitely where we choose to focus.

Jeremy Weisz 18:50

You know, what’s interesting about that, Scott is I think, I feel like a lot of agencies will default to then start offering those services. That’s an easy, you know, downstream or default execution, like instead of partnering in going, Oh, listen, we get all these inquiries. Maybe we’ll just specialize in this one type of media buying or whatever, but you made a conscious decision not to do it.

Scott Couvillon 19:16

Yeah, I mean, I find interesting. Well, I think that’s where that’s where the industry went, right. I mean, that was kind of the natural progression of things. It was unlike people, this is not going to turn into a podcast on what’s broken about the media commission compensation model for agencies. But, you know, it’s, it’s not hard to figure out how agencies got where they are, you know, full service advertising agency was trying to capitalize on all the components, that revenue could be tied to when a lot of those components got devalued by the marketplace, because so much was getting open sourced or flat sourced or clients can buy their own ads through self serve platforms, you know, it just reduced the specialty, you know, the unattainableness of a lot of the services. advertising agencies used to be able to possess and wield, you know, almost exclusively. There are so many tools that are available to so many people right now, which is, which is good. So it’s not that it’s bad business to be full service. It’s just not our business. It’s not our it’s not our model. We’re not we don’t mind.

Jeremy Weisz 20:22

Yeah, I find it interesting that you just stayed pretty disciplined, because I think it takes a lot of discipline to do that. From my observation,

Scott Couvillon 20:32

well, yeah, it’s, it’s harder. In tough years, you know, in the middle of a Stretton in a deep recession, the last thing a client leadership team wants to hear is about their need to be more purposeful. You know, and that’s when it isn’t bad, to just have low margin practices that you can be surviving on through a period like that. But modern consumerism is, is now favoring the purposeful, you know, the, the 87% of consumers who desire a meaningful relationship with brands is, is just where people are right now, only 23%, according to Edelman studies, or Harvard Business Review, feel like they’re finding it, you know, consumers want to trust that the companies that they’re doing business with share their values, that there’s an alignment on a more emotional level. Again, that doesn’t have to be altruistic all the time. It can be, but it doesn’t need to be, they just need to know that they’re not getting duped, you know, the buying public has been Lucy with the football club, so many times that, that when you know, the, we believe that a company is going to do right by us, we go in and we have a problem with a product, customer services, you know, wretched, we come to find out that, you know, everything that were that were that was promised to us was a lie. And then we get you know, more and more and more doubtful and suspicious of companies, this is just where it has been going. Since you know, there was no visibility into these companies right now that we can see that a company you know, I hate to pick on Gillette, but it’s just such a, it was such a perfect example. But when there’s purposeful advertising, making a promise, or talking about how toxic masculinity is something that absolutely needs to stop. I mean, that was a beautiful piece of content. In 2016 2017. It was right on time with with the me to movement, it was unbelievably well executed. And the world was like you know, finally we’ve got some momentum behind the elimination of toxic masculinity, it’s time to to see life in a different way. But it didn’t take very long for the world to realize that Gillette was a toxically masculine company that they were one of the last advertisers on Tucker Carlson that was toxically masculine programming. And this campaign, unfortunately, pulled people in pulled the world and you know, and did in a matter of weeks, what advertisers take years to do, which is start generating conversation in the marketplace, just because the content was so purposeful, and it was so right and so well done. But there was such a gap between what was being said about the company by the company, and who the company actually was that Gillette wrote off I believe, $8 billion. And in the following quarter on an analyst report, you know, the company was doing fine, but that brand was not its its consumers, we are now waiting for the fall from grace. And not that we love it when it happens. But man it gains a lot of traction. You know, like just to pick on Apple a little bit more just because everybody gets it. Apple and Facebook had nearly identical privacy breaches and security breaches at almost the exact same time. Two years back and Apple they both were in the news cycle, you know, the national media outlets were trying to make a story out of both of those things because that gets them clicks and you know, their ad model start to work. But nobody clicked on the Apple Store and everybody clicked on the Facebook story Apple’s new cycle lasted no time and Facebook’s new cycle gave way to that unfollow you know, there was a company that people trusted in like then a company that people were just not trusting and not liking and the exact same mistake whether intentional or unintentional, made by both companies and almost the exact same time and unbelievably different outcomes. Now I’m not saying be purposeful because you can screw up and get away with it. But it’s just the power of being purposeful. You know, not only is it Apple’s, you know, highest American business cap ever, you know, rated ever stock price was almost simultaneous with at the exact same time, the single biggest stock market loss in a single day, which was Facebook, you know, it’s the there are higher their higher profit and growth and easier companies to run and customer affinity giveaways gives away to customer preference and advocacy and repurchase because one’s believable, and one isn’t. You know, Apple leads with the why. And, and everything else is secondary, the products are sold within that context. And that’s available to, you know, a whole bunch of companies and a whole bunch of different categories. It’s not exclusive to electronics, or for credit unions.

Jeremy Weisz 25:38

I’m curious, you know, when a company comes to you, what are they saying? Are they saying, we know, we need to figure out more of our purpose? What are they saying to you? Because I’m sure they don’t wake up in the morning, like, we need to figure out our purpose today. But what what are the words that they’re using, when they’re starting to engage with you?

Scott Couvillon 25:58

Well, the initial question, I would say, is very different than the questions once we start getting into this stuff. Right? Typically, you know, I would say the initial question is almost always we need a website, you know, that is what that is, what everybody will tell you, is we need a website. And, you know, the easy answer is you don’t need a website, you need a story, you know, you need a website is stage, you know, but simply having a stage doesn’t mean that the plays worth watching. So, you know, that’s the, you know, that it’s not hard to move from the conversation about, you know, a technical or tactical want. And getting into more of this emotional conversation. Usually, that’s the point where they’re saying, Get the hell out? Or, okay, what would be involved, if we were to, to actually do this, I

Jeremy Weisz 26:48

totally get that I was on the phone with someone earlier today. And I go to their website, and I said, Listen, you are so much more amazing than what’s on your website, I hate your website. And I don’t, it doesn’t speak to actually what you have done and what you do. And I was saying in like a loving fashion. And you know, but it kind of I love how you answer that because they come out, Scott, we want a website and you’re like, you know, giving them kind of the strategy. And you know, the story of how they should tell their story. It’s also a customer experience as well, because someone hits that page, and how do they experience that company or brand? through that? So I may start with Hey, Scott, we need a website. What else do they have? What where’s that starting conversation? Also, besides the website?

Scott Couvillon 27:40

Well, I think that the nine times out of 10, you know, the people are hiring an advertising agency, because they’re trying to sell more of something, right, they have benchmark performance, and they need to improve over benchmark, either because they want to, or they have to, you know, that’s what their expectation is from the board or shareholders or, you know, it’s private, wholly owned, and you know, why not, we can, if it’s a nonprofit, we want to put ourselves out of business, though most nonprofits do not want to be put out of business. It’s, you know, it’s whatever that that empirically measured goal would be. The premise is that it is far more likely that you will sell more products, if you sell those products within the context of purpose than if you try to sell those contexts within the context of products. So it doesn’t seem reasonable. Because ultimately, somebody is going to be in the grocery store aisle, and they’re going to see, you know, my Olive next to somebody else’s olives. And if I’m just talking about how much better my olives are, then maybe they won’t mind the 30 cent delta between my price and their price. Yes, that’s, that works in, you know, Business School, but it does doesn’t work in real life. Because we, if we value it, we will pay for it. But value is not a practical notion value is an emotional one, you know, so the idea is that if you think you can get me to value your automobile, based on all the practical features and benefits and technology and engineering, and things that are in there, you’re wrong. You know, those are not things that I care about as an emotional organism. Now, they might be things I need to know before I visit the dealership and check but they’re not the stuff of consideration. You know, they’re not going to get me into the into the conversation. And even if they are practically superior enough to get me into the conversation, the conversation is in a very good one. Because I’m already starting at a rational level that I’m, you know, I’m able to disagree with as opposed to an emotional level where I’m, I’m open to listening to anything you have to say next.

Jeremy Weisz 29:59

So is there a car company out there that you feel does a good job of being?

Scott Couvillon 30:05

Yeah, I mean, absolutely, I think that they’re all i think there there are many that are good and not just Subaru because of their, you know, the connection through love with their consumer base, but the advocacy of Subaru is is incredible Subaru, as far as I know, has never had a, you know, a Volkswagen type, you know, mistake. So, maybe they’ve done nothing ever in the history of Subaru to violate the relationship. And it’s just been a, you know, a pyramid of, of advocacy word of mouth and love, and that’s their business model. But no, I would say that, you know, they’re brands like Toyota that are truly predicated on a on an idea, you know, the idea of mobility and how interesting and important mobility is to us, as, you know, civilized humans, but that some times gets lost between there and APR financing, but

Jeremy Weisz 31:02

you have mean APR financing?

Scott Couvillon 31:05

But I mean, you know, but I would say that these are brands that are very smart about creating purpose, I think there’s a difference, though, then, you know, repeating that you’re the ultimate driving machine, actually being an organization, you know, be then baptized in the ultimate driving machine, like, I don’t know, without visibility into the culture of that company. You know, we don’t know if it’s toxic, or if it isn’t, you know, the idea that there, you know, companies that should by all accounts be successful, I’m not saying that BMW isn’t. But companies by all accounts should be successful, because they have Superior Engineering and superior design and r&d, and manufacturing and service, and they’re doing everything right. But their stock price is stuck, or their net profit is seems fixed. And you start asking yourself, you know, what are the problems there, the problem isn’t in the management of customer expectations, maybe you know, that the advertising is speaking to what the product delivers. And the ultimate driving machine is what I sense when I’m driving around in, even if it’s an SUV, just because Sure, it handles better than an explorer, so you didn’t lie to me. But that lack of an alignment that in that case lives between communications and the customer’s experience of the product, if that is allowed to exist internally, inside of BMW, what is in the hallways there, you know, that is sometimes you know, why these companies aren’t as profitable or as successful as they could be. Because they’re not as easy to run, you know, they’re, you’re constantly replacing executives and your supply chain is not giving you favorable terms, because you’re a pain to work with, you know, and you’re planning to manufacturing card, and they’re just a little guy, there’s so much tension and friction in your organization that is just very difficult to become, you know, a Whole Foods Caterpillar, Disney, you know, that you’re, you’re just not going to be able to get there because the organization in spite of being externally having the appearance of being successful, isn’t successful, people aren’t excited to be there, you know, people aren’t, tenure isn’t way up, you know, employee satisfaction is down, but Net Promoter scores are up, eventually, Net Promoter scores are going to match employee satisfaction, it is a natural fact. And in business.

Jeremy Weisz 33:23

You know, Scott, one of the things I wanted to chat about is, you know, you sometimes they’ll happen to have a large number of clients, maybe in one category, like when I look on your website, but you know, you have, I think made a conscious decision not to niche. And I want to hear your ideas around that because I go to your website, and you have a large variety of clients. But I can see inklings of if you decided a niche, you could like I see like a Church’s chicken and this Chevy’s fresh Macs in, you know, a bunch of companies, but along with other things like Louisiana, feed your soul and something, you know, credit human. So I’m curious, your ideas around that conscious decision and not niche?

Scott Couvillon 34:09

Yeah, the you know, I guess, I don’t know, maybe it’s 50%, happenstance, and 50% intention, I’d like to think it’s 100% attention, but what I can tell you is that in all of the agencies that we that we know, and we work and we respect, there’s kind of a couple plays available to agency owners, you know, whether they’re privately held or or wholly owned, or whatever those things are, you know, you can be a category player and there’s a lot of comfort you know, if I’m, if if there’s been plenty of hospital RFPs that, you know, we just don’t even bother answering just because we know that the organization is there first question is, you know, tell us the 17 hospitals you’ve worked with. And there’s the other way to niche is either you know, focusing on an audience you know, we know millennials brand anybody else here. We know digital marketing. You know, me It can be a tactical niche that you focus on. What I have seen is that over time, you wind up not it’s not rinse and repeat, and every bank gets your bank formula. But there’s a lot of there’s similarities between, you know, campaigns being executed for, for the similar different players in the same category. But more problematic is what happens internally is that there becomes less innovation, because there’s a playbook that works pretty well, you know, that, that it isn’t, you’re not dancing agnostically around an idea that any execution is viable, because nothing has been, you know, you haven’t really done this before. And there’s a manner of, there’s a, there’s a level of invention there, that just doesn’t exist, when you kind of find yourself in the same category for, you know, being category specialists is probably great until you hit you know, the five year mark. And unless you’re resetting all of your people, your strategies are going to start sounding very similar. And your your executions and your media plans and your go to market ideas and your analytics platforms, they’re all going to be, you know, cousins. I’ve seen it, you know, it’s, it’s why we don’t have a media department, and we don’t have a single source media provider, you know, we’re able to go find the organization that is going to plan in place and reconcile and aggregate data for us to analyze, that’s good at a specific category, and we’re not anti categorical experience, we’re just not going to do it for one, you know, hotel, and then go sell it to 15 more hotels, that sometimes that is disqualified. But what our clients do share is that perspective is that belief that, that there is a role of purpose in being successful, and that they understand it, they might not know what the methodology for it is. But that’s where we can. So that’s what our clients share is not a category, but but that that perspective, you know, they agree with us. So, from the beginning, we are very clear on what our purpose is. And if they align with it, like consumers would with their brand someday, you know, we’re not making a promise we’re not going to keep because it’s not a conversation, we’re going to stop having.

Jeremy Weisz 37:16

Got it. One last question. First of all, thanks for sharing all of your knowledge and expertise and stories. And I totally have heard time and time again, a lot of the best ideas and innovation come from outside industry. So I know there can be more innovation and ideas potentially, if someone comes from outside because they take a fresh perspective on things. I could also say the other side, well, there’s obviously efficiencies created if someone’s working in industry, but so you have the advantages and disadvantages. But um, I’d love to hear, you know, throughout your career, some of the mentors that have and maybe a lesson you learn from a couple of your mentors throughout the years.

Scott Couvillon 37:57

Yeah, I mean, I definitely have a mentor, I won’t say his name. I would think he knows who he is, but maybe it doesn’t, maybe I should send him a card, let him know, you know, since he probably shouldn’t hear it in my obituary. But he has, I think one of the biggest skills that that he tried to convey and I’m not sure, you know, if I do it, I know I don’t do it well enough. But I mean, the the idea of loyalty and trust. Now that sounds cliche and passe, but he was really talking about it as a management tool. And meaning, you know, not give people rope to hang themselves, and then just come down on like a ton of bricks, it’s the only way they’re gonna learn, you know, it wasn’t that it was really, you know, you are far better off arming people with the ability to make decisions and act autonomously in accordance with, you know, a core thought, then you are micromanaging them to what you wanted to see as an outcome. And in fact, you know, if you do it long enough, and you do it well enough, people are gonna start religiously coming up with ideas that are better than yours. And it’s, it’s, it’s interesting, because I’ve tried to employ it in my own career. It’s fantastic advice. But in a way, it’s kind of what we’re trying to do with leadership teams that we’re working with, you know, it’s it’s less about line of sight and micromanagement and trying to get people to conform to some, you know, rigid understanding of the business. And it’s really trying to get a group of people aligned and organized in a belief in what a company is about what the idea of that company is not regardless, you know, independent what they make. But what they make is not you know, the most important thing that there is unity, there’s pride, there’s excitement, there’s, you know, you’re not miserable when you’re parking your car every morning and walking into this place or plugging into this place nowadays. And when you then in engage these people and align them in this belief, they can act autonomously and almost anything that they do with that belief in mind is going to be organically aligned with what you would have, you know, forced them to conform to where you’re doing it the old industrial revolution, kind of wait. So I didn’t mean for that answer to tie mentorship to me applying it to what we do with clients, but it is kind of all the same idea. You know, it’s it’s the teaching Amanda fish versus, you know, selling them efficient $300 an hour.

Jeremy Weisz 40:35

Scott, I won’t be the first one to thank you. Thank you so much everyone. Check out check out more episodes of the podcast, Rise25. Scott, thank you so much.

Scott Couvillon 40:48

Alright, man, good to talk to you again.