Jeremy Weisz 15:29
I don’t know if you thought about starting a few things before or you did. But I think I read somewhere where there was a toy company you were thinking about doing?
Robbie Hardy 15:40
Yeah, I did start it. Yes, Creative Interaction, there was a color me t-shirt for little girls and an explorer pack for little boys. You know, keeping this is way back, you know, trying to keep the screen time down before we really knew how bad screen time could be. And the funny thing is, so I was doing that. And I happened to be sick, and I was lying in bed with an Excel spreadsheet. And it finally dawned on me, I had been so successful, I sold into Nordstroms, and Bed Bath and Beyond. And all these great quote wins. But I wasn’t ever going to make any money. I couldn’t make it up in volume. The numbers just did not make sense. I knew better. But I was so in love with what I was doing, that I lost sight of it. So that’s a yes. And so that was talking about the turning point.
Jeremy Weisz 16:31
Talk about the decision, because, you know, some people would have just kept going like it. So what was it?
Robbie Hardy 16:40
Well I mean, the numbers speak pretty loudly. I mean, the lesson there is, you know, pay attention to your numbers. I mean, you know, it’s so easy to romanticize, oh, I know this next deal is going to happen, oh, I know this is going to happen. Oh, and until you’ve got the purchase order or whatever in hand, it doesn’t matter, because that’s not going to pay the bills. I mean, I was making, you know, in my, when I started my company, you know, I would make payroll sometimes on my credit card. So I’m not recommending it. But you go so far, when you believe in what you have, and you’ll go, you’ll do almost anything. And you know, sometimes you have to do almost anything to make it happen.
Jeremy Weisz 17:21
I don’t know if I’m mixing up your book or an interview I watched, but you do talk about I don’t know if it’s in Fed Up to Start Up about, there’s a point where the character with the payroll.
Robbie Hardy 17:36
That’s true. That was me, and it was the character. So early on, and this was when we were doing we didn’t have any outside money, thank God. And so there I did not have a payroll system. I didn’t know that that was a good idea. And so I was, you know, paying people and doing all that myself, which I knew nothing about. But you know, that never stops you. And so there was money in the bank, and I was short on cash. And so I took the payroll taxes, and I use them to pay bills. The good news is that I knew better. I mean, at the time I did it, it didn’t seem so horrible because that oh my god, I can make this up in 30 days, no problem. While of course, it took longer than it probably took 60 to 90 days. And, you know, when you realize what a big, you know, huge mistake that is, it’s not your money. And so one way that I, you know, as coach, everybody get a payroll system. You’ll never have an opportunity to be tempted, because it’s not in your account.
Jeremy Weisz 18:39
What are some other, because I know you mentor a lot of people, obviously, you know, there’s some lessons in the book with the payroll system, staying agile, what are some other lessons that you’ve imparted on some of the people you’ve coached or mentored?
Robbie Hardy 18:56
Yeah, I mean, one of the things that I teach people a lot or coach them on is listening. Entrepreneurs can talk a lot, I mean, I could fill up your full day, and want to talk about themselves, or who they met or what they know. And with entrepreneurs, I want to meet them where they are, and I want them to remember to, you know, meet others where they are also. So a lot of that is just life lessons. But it really, really makes a difference when you’re trying to build a team. And when you’re working, trying to close customers that you remember that you know, this isn’t all about you, this is about your customer or your employee or whatever and understanding where they are like you do a lot of research on me so you know where I am. Or you think, you know, you try to so that you can meet me there and it makes everything go much smoother and much better. And so that’s kind of a, you know, an overarching piece. I mean, obviously, you know, there’s lots of logistical issues and, you know, raising money and not getting out over your skis, with cash, because cash flow, I mean, cash is king. And we can spend a lot of time on that and how it can appear that it’s fine when it’s not.
Jeremy Weisz 20:19
Robbie talk about the books, and why you decided to write each of them because you know, you’re busy enough, you don’t need to write a book.
Robbie Hardy 20:31
I did. So I started in 1986, so some of the people in your audience weren’t even born then. I had to call it you know, it was my first big job in the corporate world. I had an office, I had a secretary, I had a conference room, you know, I’d made it. And I had this secretary, her name was Ruby, she was this young German woman. And she was amazing. But she had no idea how amazing she was. I mean, it was incredible. And so I started encouraging her, you know, talk to her about what she wanted to do. And, you know, she just wanted to keep doing what she was doing. And long story short, I started delegating some things to her that she wasn’t comfortable with, but supporting her. And so she started growing, it was crazy. And I was hooked because she was succeeding, I was learning. So that began a long time ago.
So I have been always mentoring on my business side of it, you know, three or four young women to help them find their voice and feel comfortable in their skin, et cetera, et cetera. So I decided when I sold my first company, that I was going to think of this great way where I was going to empower millions of women to, you know, stand tall on the ground. Well, obviously, that was a pipe dream. And I finally, you know, after all those years, decided, well, maybe I can write a book, or two or three. So I came up with three books that I wanted to write. And the first one was about a young woman climbing the corporate ladder that’s upsetting the table. And talking about mentoring and giving examples of you know, how to take your seat at the table, what does it really mean? And they told us stories, so that it’s, you know, people will come up to me and say, Well, how’s Jessica doing, and sometimes I forget that Jessica was the main character, and I’m setting the table. And so the second book I, so that was in 2016, that I did of setting the table. And then last year, I launched, Fed Up to Start Up. And that was based on my first startup experience, as a sponsor and CEO of a technology company. And also in there was lessons about community and how I could not have done anything that I did without all the people that I had met along the way. And, you know, I had my Aerosport squad, I had all these things that I didn’t even recognize were so valuable. And so that’s how the books happened. And then the third book is going to be about its outline, but it’s still that now life is getting in the way of it, but about women becoming angel investors and helping women understand how that works, because women like to know what they’re doing. They don’t jump in when they don’t know if there’s water in the pool, most of them anyway. And so trying to help them see that it’s like anything else. It’s just jargon. And that’s how we’re going to change things.
Jeremy Weisz 23:25
Which leads me to talk about xElle Ventures. How did that come about? I’m gonna, if you’re watching the video part, there is a video part for one, I’m gonna pull up the website here as we’re talking about it, but talk about how xElle Ventures came about.
Robbie Hardy 23:41
So in 2000, I was an angel investor and had been an angel investor for five years at that point, and I thought I was usually the only woman or they’d be a couple of us. And I thought, you know, it’s time for there to be more women around the table. And I decided to raise a fund. And it took me six months to have six women. It was too early there weren’t enough, you know, when female founders who had exited and so I opened it up and see, you know, probably two weeks later, I had 75 men. So my lesson was, you know, that I was the lesson was too early. And there were also a problem with how I went about it. I couldn’t imagine that there wasn’t, you know, a way to go about it. And so, this time, in 2018 2019, I invited 25 women to join me and talk about raising a fund to women angel investors investing in women founders. I had beat up all my male investor colleagues and I finally got smart and realized I needed to look in the mirror and that women we had to do this ourselves. We want to change these numbers. And so you know this image here, this is some of the 15 women that ended up staying with me as we launched xElle Ventures in August of 2019. And then it moved to a fund in 2021. So here are some of these women who are running the fund now. And Ann Miller on the walls on the left of my screen, I assume it’s on left of everybody’s. she’s the current chair, and I met her, you know, probably I don’t know, in 2000. And she was, you know, she was doing CFO work, but she was working for people and not working for herself. She’s very talented, very smart. And I convinced her to go off on her own. And then she and I did a couple of deals together, we had a vacation rental business in Hawaii together. And so we’ve done a few things. And, you know, being part of xElle was never on her radar. But she had helped me run that first fund. And so all together, she has come to be this amazing woman who totally understands how all this works, and why it’s so important. And she’s the current chair of xElle Ventures.
Jeremy Weisz 26:14
Talk about the structure a little bit because we were chatting, and it’s not your normal VC fund and how you structure investing in companies.
Robbie Hardy 26:22
So the investment is debt, not equity, for those who understand equity is having shares in the company. And those shares, you know, there’s a lot of pieces, there’s a lot of moving parts there, and it can take a while to get your money back or not. And when I was doing my research on starting this fund, I was talking to some groups of women who were investors, but they were investing in the public market. And they didn’t quite understand when I talked about angel investing, they were like, what is an angel? So anyway, long story short, after talking to everybody, I thought, well, everyone knows what a loan is. And I’ve looked at lots and lots of deals in my career, and there’s often so much money that shouldn’t have equities going towards it, it’s maybe you can sell your product if you can get a better price on plastic, or, you know, boxes, or whatever. And so ways to, you know, bridge those cash flow gaps without giving away pieces of your company. So it works for both the investor and the founder. These women understood the process of lending money, and they were willing to put their toe in the water. We brought the amount per person way down of what the minimum was, in order to join the fund, everybody still had to be an accredited investor. And so we talk with women who have companies who we can help with 25 to 100,000 in debt, you know, it’s one to three years, you know, the rate varies, you know, from, you know, seven to 11%, depending on what’s going on in the market. And, you know, spend time mentoring them and helping them be successful. So they pay it back either monthly or quarterly. We don’t do any balloon payments and knock on wood. So far, so good.
Jeremy Weisz 28:16
How does the mentorship process work? Because I imagine that’s a big selling point into why they should go with xElle Ventures.
Robbie Hardy 28:24
Yeah, I mean, a lot of them, it’s, it’s because they, you know, there’s people at the table that look like them. And so they’re, that’s helpful in being able to understand, you know, the person across from you. So the mentoring process works by the Executive Committee, and the screening committee and due diligence who meet with these people privately before they come to meet the whole membership. So they get to meet all these women from different backgrounds and different interests. And the mentorships happen organically. I don’t believe you can make that happen. You can’t force it. And so we look to see where the best matches and so talk to him and say, you know, what do you think about you know, would you like to spend time or one of the members will say I really liked this, and I have some experience here, let me see how I can help.
Jeremy Weisz 29:13
Talk about who’s an ideal fit.
Robbie Hardy 29:17
A company do you mean? Yeah, well, it’s a company that I mean, they need to have revenue. So there’s it’s not early stage, which my background is in early stage where you know, it’s often pre revenue. So, you know, they have 15 to $30,000 a month in revenue and they can afford a loan payment without a lot of effort, but it gives them you know, they get the money upfront and pay for it along the way there’s no collateral or anything. So we do look at that part of it very closely. What are their projections look like? You know, what are the repeat customers and you know, all those kinds of things to see what the right fit is? And of course, the other thing is, while some companies really beg us to invest in them, we don’t want to burden them with that debt, because it can hurt them in trying to raise other money, etc. So we’re very cognizant of the impact on the founder. And so while sometimes it seems mean, when we say no, it’s really the right thing, and they can come back later.
Jeremy Weisz 30:26
What are some examples, I know, you can’t share names of types of companies? So to give people an idea of the type of companies.
Robbie Hardy 30:32
Well, it’s all over the place. I mean, there’s a woman who’s got a company that makes bras for women who have had breast surgery, and it takes care of all the leaking and tubes and whatever, and they can manage themselves. Another is a couple, as it turns out, who does a pet cremation in a, you know, in a way that’s organic, and supportive, et cetera, et cetera. So it’s really I mean, it’s hard to go too much further apart.
Jeremy Weisz 31:08
Yeah, I’m always curious, because I’m wondering the reasons why, like e-commerce, I could see, they maybe have cash flow, they just need to produce more. Like, what are some of the reasons why.
Robbie Hardy 31:21
Oh that’s cash flow, I mean, cash flow. I mean, it can’t be if obviously, it’s cash flow is too bad, then they can’t afford a loan either. And so we try to, then we work with them, okay, let’s look at your business model. Let’s see if there’s something else we can do here. But it’s oftentimes to get the price point down to increase margin. I mean, that’s my favorite, when it’s that we’ve had, you know, chocolate company who, you know, was wanted to go into, you know, doing some private events, and so needed to up fit their space, they were doing really well, but couldn’t, you know, we’re very frugal in how they use their money. And so they were, you know, trying to be very careful. So, it’s all that it’s the things that, you know, it’s not usually your core business, like arts, you know, you need to be able to get a better price on ordering those bras, so you can, you know, have an affordable price for your customer.
Jeremy Weisz 32:13
I’m curious, Robbie, I know you’ve done a lot of angel investing. What’s some of your criteria for that? Because I know, it’s a little different animal?
Robbie Hardy 32:22
Yeah, completely different? Yeah. Because it’s equity investing. And so then, you know, it’s interesting, when I moved to, you know, doing debt with xElle, it was so interesting, because one of the things we would always talk about with founders as an equity, as you know, what do you think your exit is, who might be interested in buying you, and when you’re doing that, I don’t care, I just want them to keep growing, so that we can loan them money again. In debt investing, we look at the numbers so much more deeply. And in the equity, we look at what’s the, you know, what are the projections? What’s the feedback from the customer? Or are there customers, you know, what’s, what else is out there in the market? The competition, we look at all those other things. And really, at the end of the day, with the debt, it’s, you know, how much revenue do you have? How many customers, how many repeatable what’s in your pipeline? And you know, it’s not that simple, but it is much simpler. There’s so many things because in an equity deal, it can be 10 to 15 years. And, you know, we couldn’t predict this pandemic. So, you know, there’s a lot of things that come into play that, you know, that make a difference.
Now, my equity colleagues told me, I was really stupid, because the returns were not enough. But the good news is, the returns aren’t as much, but they’re consistent, and they’re steady, and we’re not waiting for it. And doesn’t mean we can’t do equity also, but we’re filling a hole on both sides, allowing women, you know, or people who are not experienced in investing, put their toe in the water and giving the founders, you know, another source of funds. So I don’t mind being called stupid.
Jeremy Weisz 34:02
Yeah. Well, I guess, you know, you have a little lower risk, lower return, right?
Robbie Hardy 34:07
Yeah. I mean, it’s well, it’s either I mean, the risks are, you know, I have to say the risks are the risks. I mean, you just can’t predict what’s going to happen, you know, you think you’re really wise, well, you’ll get your wisdom. You know, you’d be eating it because you just can’t make up the stuff that happens.
Jeremy Weisz 34:26
How did the executive mentorship in residence from Duke University come about?
Robbie Hardy 34:32
Well, you know, I got a call or an email from someone saying, you know, do you want to talk to me about this? They’d been referred by a colleague. So I thought they wanted me to come up with some people for them to put in the program. So I’m riling off people. And he’s like, no, no, no, no, we want to talk to you and I’m like, No, you don’t. I have not worked for anybody since 1993. So I don’t think so. I think I probably wouldn’t last a week. Anyway, long story short, it has worked out, I decided to do it because I had so much I have so much startup experience. But I had no I had not been in this world. And so you know, what happens in a university, a mentoring program like that, you know, you’re working with professors, or doctors or PhD students or whatever, who have created something, and they need to license it belongs to the university, they need to license it out. And these people have, you know, they have real jobs that are getting paid well, and they’re, you know, doing this and they can sometimes if they want to change the world, other cases, they want to be rich like their, you know, colleague down the road, and others want to stay and just get a piece of the action. And we recruit a management team for them. It’s fascinating, and it’s an experience, I would have never guessed things I would have never seen in my normal world. So I’ve been enjoying it. They haven’t fired me yet.
Jeremy Weisz 35:58
So the kind of work you do, are you doing similar mentorship coaching?
Robbie Hardy 36:02
Yes, I do. Yes. Mentoring. Yes. And there are nine of us. And so some are in, I’m in the technology side, and the others are, you know, pharma and devices.
Jeremy Weisz 36:15
Love it. I’ve one last question. Before I ask, I want to point people to check out more about you. I mean, they can get any of your books, I bought it on Audible, it’s fantastic. You can go to RobbieHardy.com. You can also go to xElleVentures.com to learn more, and I encourage people to check your books out for sure. My last question is just I know you’ve mentored a lot of people. I’m wondering who are the colleagues or mentors that you have, and it could be distant mentors, doesn’t have to be someone personal, but maybe some of your favorite books out there that you’ve learned from as well.
Robbie Hardy 36:57
You know, from Good To Great as a book, I think a lot of that. I have to be honest, I don’t spend a lot of time reading a lot of books, because I’m usually doing it whether for the good and the bad. But I didn’t have a mentor. But upon reflection, because I get asked this question a lot is that the men that I worked with, mentored me and didn’t know it, I mean, they were experienced, they didn’t know what to do with me. And so I just was able to learn from them in a way that I didn’t, it was sort of not, not what you would expect. So I didn’t have a mentor. As I came along in the corporate world, then I had a sponsor, which is to help you climb the corporate ladder, which I’m not a fan of, because uh, you can’t, you can’t really get what you need. And you know, other than, you know, greasing the skids as you climb the ladder. So I wish I could tell you, I think I’ve had that I had one or two I’ve had, I think I had hundreds of men who had come before me didn’t know what to do with me and, and tried to help me not all of them, but a lot of them did and respected and trusted me enough to you know, spend time with me and helped me grow.
Jeremy Weisz 38:13
Any women leaders that you’ve looked up to or admire?
Robbie Hardy 38:20
Amin, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, you know, and Maya Angelou and I mean, that was they were not a lot of women. I was in technology. So there weren’t, you know, there weren’t a lot of women for me to know. I mean, it’s a big, very different world now.
Jeremy Weisz 38:36
Ya, I love it. I want to encourage people to check out your books. And whenever you’re listening to this the third book may be out as well. Upsetting the Table, Fed Up to Start Up. Do you have the title of the third book yet? Or is it still in the works right now?
Robbie Hardy 38:53
It’s, you know, Woman Up? Yeah, we don’t know. All right. Yeah, it takes a long time to, and the other piece, when you asked about mentoring, which I didn’t say the other piece is that I was very fortunate to have a huge community of people. When I was traveling in the corporate world, I would meet other people doing sort of similar things. And we had different clients. And sometimes we had the same client. And we ended up forming this airport, we called the airport squad. And so we try to meet from around the country at an airport where we, you know, and have our layover and we’d have a glass of wine or a drink or whatever. And those people also helped shape. I mean, they were amazing mentors and you know, helped me through a lot and so the value of your community and your network is critical.
Jeremy Weisz 39:42
Amazing, Robbie, I want to be the first one to thank you. Check out the books, check out more episodes of the podcast, and we’ll see everyone next time. Thanks so much.
Robbie Hardy 39:49
Thanks so much. I appreciate it.