Jeremy Weisz

you follow up with people. So like, you know, you also part of making sure the relationships you know, sustains over time is following up and keeping in touch. When you meet someone like you met him for the first time we met for the first Time By the way, I think well we were introduced by Chad Rubin, so shout out to Chad Rubin and Skubana. Because he’s like, Jeremy, you need to get Rich. He’s just an amazing human being. Yet

Rich Goldstein

another great connector. Let’s just, I’ll give us a sec, I’ll make a second to that shout out Chad Rubin and Chad actually, is the one who invited me to Prosper Show. I met him at War Room. He was there speaking. We were at the airport coming back from Puerto viata, where we actually got to talk for the first time and he told me a Prosper Show was happening. And he said, you know, come to the event. I’ll introduce you to everyone I know. And he really did. I mean, he truly introduced me to dozens and dozens of people, including you, including James Thomson. I mean, so that’s kind of how that thing tends to happen is I think you meet connectors and they connect you with people.

Jeremy Weisz

So how do you follow up with people like take anyone for maybe the conference,

Rich Goldstein

the two the two main follow ups I have the two main connection systems I have is just plain old Facebook, just making Facebook friends with someone. And then also I use an app that displays a barcode that lets them get my contact info and send me a message. This is an app that another good friend of mines guy Steve Esk Steve Esketzis he created called Lazy Contact us that app. And then, you know, it’s real easy, lazy, agent. Oh, that’s great. Nice to contact. Yeah. So, you know, just kind of something that has you remember the connection. It’s so easy to meet so many people. And then just, if you don’t do anything about it, if you don’t kind of make a Facebook friend connection, or even like Instagram or some other platform, or get that contact info, it’s just rather unlikely that you’ll even remember, at some point in the future,

Jeremy Weisz

where you get busy, right? So you use Facebook use lazy lazy Connect Contact user

Rich Goldstein

Lazy Contact

Jeremy Weisz

Lazy Contact, you also do something a little bit further. You send stuff out in the mail sometimes. I got your book.

Rich Goldstein

That’s true. Well, okay. And that’s a that’s a kind of like the follow through from the connection using Lazy Contact. I mean very often when I’m talking to, to someone, and they are just, they’re interested somewhat in what I do patents. I don’t know why they’re interested. But

Jeremy Weisz

what they are and protect their ideas is rather interesting. Yeah.

Rich Goldstein

So I tell them, You know what, I’ll send you a copy of my book. And and so we exchange information, and then I get that contact info over to my system and send them a book. So yeah, that actually is I wasn’t really present to that in this moment. But that’s a major follow up system of mine is I meet people, I get their information, I send them a book. You know,

Jeremy Weisz

there’s something about getting something physical and tangible and it also lends itself to this. In credibility if I get a book from you?

Rich Goldstein

Yeah, I would say so. I mean, one of the reasons I was really honored to be asked to write this book for the American Bar Association is because the there is instant credibility with that, like, people say, Oh, he’s the guy who wrote the book on patents.

Jeremy Weisz

So anything else you do any software systems you use? Just for follow up in general?

Rich Goldstein

It’s funny, because what immediately comes to mind is, is like, I’m so add that like, I create systems, and then I forget about them. So they’re not very kind

Jeremy Weisz

of what you’re supposed to do it as long as they’re running. No, I mean, I

Rich Goldstein

forget that I even I gotcha. I’ll start a list and then I forget that I started a list. But uh, yeah, I mean, in terms of systems that I’m currently using, I just have to say I don’t remember. You

Jeremy Weisz

know, one thing also besides the giving and connection follow up aspect that I totally respect is you are a constant learner. And you always look to go to conferences and join organizations or they’re like minded people talk about some maybe colleagues or mentors that you look at for business advice, or they look at you for business advice. Hmm, what kind of group what kind of groups are you a part of?

Rich Goldstein

Well, I’m in War Room, which is a great mastermind. I mean, that so many people in there that I that I interface with and look to for advice. I mean, there’s a you know, Jan Tam is good, very good friend of mine. The guy mentioned Steve Eske, he’s in Australia, also. Someone I look to for advice like that. Sal Buscemi. Someone I have a lot of respect for Jim Do. And, I mean, just really so many others, like just in that group alone. Mm hmm. And then you know, Genius Network to an ingenious network to Jim Do. Joe Polish Of course. And, you know, lots of other folks.

Jeremy Weisz

What have you learned our own from Joe Polish? Um, he’s a master at

Rich Goldstein

he is the ultimate collector. Yeah. So even though his thing is marketing, I would say just observing the ease at which he connects. And I think one of his superpowers is just remembering people, and remembering even where he left off with people. I mean, after a long period of time, and then a short conversation, he kind of, he’s just really great at just jumping right back in. So, huh?

Jeremy Weisz

How’d you get into this whole world of so protecting people’s ideas and products? What’s the craziest thing you’ve protected?

Rich Goldstein

depends. It depends on how you define crazy, right? I mean, there’s so many interesting different things. I would say probably the most unusual thing. protected from the standpoint of how are you going to monetize that? Is, is this couple in Los Angeles came to me a long time ago, looking to patent a new way of tying shoelaces that it doesn’t come untied was basically a new sequence of

Jeremy Weisz

it’s called, like a double knot. No, just kidding. Yeah.

Rich Goldstein

You know, it’s hard to remember it’s been it’s probably been about 20 years at this point. But uh, they it was yes series of knots that still relatively simple, but it doesn’t come undone in the same way that when you tie a regular bow on your shoe laces, so they wanted to patent that I said, okay, but now once we patented, how are you going to make money from that? They didn’t seem to really care. It would be interesting if that’s a

Jeremy Weisz

fair question. They’re like, Rich, I’m not paying you to figure that out. Just give me the patent. But I mean, you were you’re looking out for people’s wallets. All I do.

Rich Goldstein

Yeah, and I want people to go into the process, knowing what they’re getting, knowing what the risks are, knowing what the upside is for them, like in this case, like, how are we going to monetize it? Is there a potential upside? And, you know, but the value that people are seeking, when they’re seeking a patent isn’t necessarily what you expect is like you think like, you make an assumption, like, okay, someone’s doing a patent because they want to make a lot of money. You know, it’s like, sometimes it’s, I’d say, it’s typically an experience that they’re seeking. It’s maybe the experience of having something that they created out there and famous, right? Maybe it’s the experience of having made a difference with lots of people, you know, maybe experience of just having done it. So it’s usually an experience to the seeking. And I can get behind that. I mean, it’s like that. It doesn’t have to be about them making money that’s commensurate with the money they spend on the process. Yes, as long as that experienced seeking has that value for them, right, then

Jeremy Weisz

let’s talk about a couple of use cases. Right? So you do patents and trademarks. And one of the ways there is e commerce people that, you know, seek this out their SaaS companies, product companies, what’s what’s a lucrative way you’ve seen someone use a patent or trademark?

Rich Goldstein

Well, I mean, probably the most lucrative ways is to license it is to have a a, basically a deal setup where someone is manufacturing the product and paying a royalty to you.

Jeremy Weisz

You know, what are the what are the best examples of that you’ve seen? I remember right, you know, gonna,

Rich Goldstein

so Carlos Alvarez, who is you know, who you weren’t sure of when we passed over the podcast. He’ll tell a story about how he likes it. He had a product that he was selling. he’s a he’s a very successful econ guy in product he was selling that ultimately he licensed and he makes more from the licensing than he ever did. From actually selling the products Hmm,

Jeremy Weisz

so it’s amazing.

Rich Goldstein

Yeah, I mean, so so there’s an example and it’s pretty common model licensing. And and probably one of the most sought after relationships of people that have ideas where they, you know, they are looking for someone who’s going to take it on and, and get it out there and then pay them a royalty. It’s not always easy to find someone like that actually, it’s quite difficult often to find a licensing relationship, finding that person who values what you have. And also is in a position to make it happen. Like things Yep. But yeah, that’s

Jeremy Weisz

who are who do you consider experts in licensing so that I remember you know, I had the founder of Big League Chew on and he basically I don’t know if you consider me to license it, licensed it but he basically Yeah. I think he’s licensed that they sold it, but he gets a royalty. So, um, it was really interesting to hear how he created it, but then he doesn’t do any of the manufacturing or anything like that. It’s just he handed it. And now he just gets a piece of every thing of Big League Chew sold. Who you consider experts at licensing?

Rich Goldstein

I’d say Paul Miller, you know, Paul Miller, I was gonna mention him. Yep. Okay. We know so many of the same people. But yeah, I would say Paul is, is the guy that that I that I respect the most in terms of what he’s accomplished with licensing. And Yep, there he is. Cozy Phones. And he and he’s worked licensing in the other direction where he is licensed famous characters, as you can see on the web, right, like Sesame Street and Nickelodeon characters. And so he’s gotten permission to use them on his product. made some money for those companies but in turn sold quite a number of products.

Jeremy Weisz

Yep. You know, I have another guest for your podcast actually Rich. Um, I have someone coming on tonight. He’s a friend. His name’s Steve Rosen. He has the company CreateOn. And basically he helps put together licensing deals for companies. So he works with Magna-Tiles if I don’t know if anyone has kids Magna-Tiles and he connects Magna-Tiles to, let’s say Sesame Street and creates specialized Sesame Street Magna-Tiles, and other you know, they got him in the target and large big box stores in addition to online, so he’d be a good person for your podcast, but also like, has done licensing and like a large scale.

Rich Goldstein

Yeah, I’d love to have him on. I think there’s a lot that he could share with, with my audience about innovation about how he’s helped people make those connections.

Jeremy Weisz

Um, so best ways, lucrative way so that’s, that’s one way people have used licensing, you know, patents trademarks for licensing purposes. What are other lucrative ways people can use trademarks or patents?

Rich Goldstein

Well, I say the other major One is if you’re in the business, if you’re in the business and selling products, then you use the patent to create your market share and maintain your market share, and basically prevent competition. So, so essentially, you’re preventing other people from making a product like that. And that kind of helps you cement your position in the market. If when, when you’ve patented some aspect of the product that the consumer is calling for, so that they want the product with your feature. They don’t want it if it doesn’t have that feature. You are effectively preventing people from competing with you,

Jeremy Weisz

because builds a moat around builds a moat around your product or company.

Rich Goldstein

Yeah, exactly. I mean, people can sell competitive products, but not with the thing that consumers are asking for. Then you’ve got a great patent, then you’ve got something which, which is making your company a lot of money.

Jeremy Weisz

Yeah, I mean, if you watch I love watching Shark Tank, and that’s a question they ask is like, is this defensible? Is this protectable? Is this unique? And the people who come in with patents or trade, you know, they have that? It’s definitely added value?

Rich Goldstein

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it’s one of the first questions that they ask is like, do you have a patent because it’s, you know, it, it really cements whether they own the idea or not. And, you know, if you don’t own IP, then they’re just investing in you, you know, how you’re kind of like the sales that you’ve been able to achieve and possibly if they inject some cash in, they could achieve more sales or grow your business by If you own the IP there’s lots of other opportunities. It’s not just about what you’ve created it’s about what all the people that they could work a deal with. Create with the IP that you own.

Jeremy Weisz

So talk about we’ll talk about e commerce SAS What’s another category we should talk about in this Patent and Trademark row and the others?

Rich Goldstein

Um, yeah, let’s see so Ecom I mean, people that have products

Jeremy Weisz

Yeah, so what’s Uh, what’s an eComm example of how people abused?

Rich Goldstein

Well, eComm and if you thinking in particular of Amazon sellers, often having the patent can be the thing that you use to clear the kind of clear the deck in terms of other people that are selling competitive products. You have even a design pattern which is for for the look of a product only, but you have a design pattern or design pattern for a product. You see a competitive selling a product that looks like yours. You make an IP complaint to Amazon and they shut them down. So, so that’s a great use of a patent and Amazon tends to defer to the IP owners. And so between you and your competitor, it’s way better if you’re the one holding the patent.

Jeremy Weisz

Yeah. And you’ve helped a lot of Amazon sellers from the patent and then what about trademark from a trademark standpoint?

Rich Goldstein

Yeah. And and trademarks as well. I mean, trademarks are a no brainer. It’s like, if you have any branding, you should protect it with a trademark. because it reminds

Jeremy Weisz

me I need to hire you for something by the way. I’m also a client of Rich but so yeah, okay.

Rich Goldstein

My pleasure, whatever. Yeah.

Jeremy Weisz

But um, because but Amazon almost demands that for your brand right now. You know, they want you to see they want you to submit official trademark.

Rich Goldstein

Yeah, if you want to be in Brand Registry, then you need to have a registered trademark a few years back, that you could have gotten to the program without a registered trademark, but now it’s it’s hundred percent that you need a registered trademark to do it. Yep.

Jeremy Weisz

And we talked about some of the licensing aspects of getting the patent. What about SaaS companies? I’m thinking SAS, what do I need? How do I, what do I need a patent or trademark for?

Rich Goldstein

Well, if you’re a SaaS company, so you’ve got some type of software platform online and you’re selling memberships or things of that nature. Not all SAS. Companies need patents, for sure. But sometimes you have a unique set of features. You’ve got something that your software does that none of your competitors are doing. It pays to protect it with a patent. Hmm. So you know, if you have something that really makes your software unique, that’s a way to leverage that. So that you don’t have a lot of or a bunch of me toos coming along and doing the same thing that you’re doing. But of course with SAS companies branding, is it is critical as well. You know, like you go to zoom or stream yard or any of these platforms is that name that people are looking for and and so you need to establish your rights in that in that brand recognition.

Jeremy Weisz

So Rich I, you know, when people get started into law, there’s a million different avenues you can take. So what made you decide to choose this? And was it always this or we did you have something in the beginning that you’re doing that was different?

Rich Goldstein

Right? Well, it was always this as long as it was law because really what it was is that I, I started with engineering, I studied electrical engineering. And I realized in the course of that, that being electro engineer wasn’t quite for me. Just

Jeremy Weisz

cuz I was terrible.

Rich Goldstein

Well, working on the same project day in and day

Jeremy Weisz

out, electric liner. Yeah, it’s just what just hard. Yeah, I had all the, you know, when I had the physics, you know, calculus based physics class. You know, my background is biochemistry. It was the island. Engineers and I was like, wow, like your curriculum is tough.

Rich Goldstein

Yeah, well, I still, you know, it’s not like I got to escape it. I still finished I got a degree in electrical engineering. And then I went to law school. But really it was during that process that I said, I need to do something a little bit more I, I wasn’t keen on being an engineer as an occupation. And so I went to law school with the intention of becoming a patent lawyer. Because in order to do patent law, you need to have an engineering or science background, which is kind of fun, because when I’m in law school, and every one was talking about what type of fields I’m going to go into criminal law, and we go to corporate law, and I told them about patent law. Some of them say like, that sounds really interesting. Maybe I’ll go into that. Ask them so well, what did you study undergrad, and they’ll say political science. It’s like well, too late. So by the time a lot of people learn about this field, say in law school, it’s already too late because they don’t have The technical background you need to go into it.

Jeremy Weisz

You mentioned tying shoes as an interesting use case. What are some other interesting, you know, cases that you’ve seen throughout your career?

Rich Goldstein

Okay, so a good friend of mine now, I mean, it’s because we’ve been friends for 20 years now since we started working together. He’s invented from California. He runs a bus upholstery company. He basically has, like transit authorities hire him to reupholster 700 buses, let’s say. And so he that’s what he does. And he discovered some time ago, that there was a major problem in transit authorities where they they have a cushion seat, that they want to provide a comfortable ride for their customers. But then, you know, late at night, someone takes a knife out and they Knife the seats terrible open.

Jeremy Weisz

Yeah, I’ve been on those buses like the front of it’s been slashed. You know what I mean? And you know, someone just vandalized it.

Rich Goldstein

Exactly, exactly. And so, so then it’s a toss up between giving someone or giving your customers a hard plastic seat that’s really uncomfortable, and giving them something that’s more comfortable to ride in, but could easily get vandalized. And so what my client came up with was a seat insert that was really the best of both worlds, which it provided a cushioning, but it was still vandalism proof. And he had a very clever way of doing that. And we got a patent on it. And it’s been the thing that’s, that’s got him contracts for more than decades. So they all use him because of this particular innovation that he’s done.

Jeremy Weisz

I can see that being a use case for stadiums Seating and other things too. Does he use it for anything else? Or is it just for kind of bus?

Rich Goldstein

Um, you know, and it’s interesting. I mean, I, I don’t know that it’s that he’s used it outside of the bus business. That’s the business. He’s in that he’s done very well. So,

Jeremy Weisz

what else? What else? I like hearing the cool ideas people have what they have patented.

Rich Goldstein

Let’s see, I mean, and it’s funny that I’m like a senile person. You know, like when you senile like you remember things from when you were kid better than you remember what just happened? So like 30 years.

Jeremy Weisz

I remember all those but last week, I got so much.

Rich Goldstein

Exactly, exactly. So like, you know, I have another client who had a hairband like for tying up your hair and having it look like natural hair. But there was a problem in that if you any of the synthetic hair fibers like things that actually look like hair are not elastic. So you go Stretch it around the ponytail. So what she came up with was a set of hair fibers joined with an elastic part end to end into a circle. So then the elastic part stretched and then the hair part didn’t. But you know, when I make my ponytails, I can’t relate to normally do it is you know you you you make one just like the way you rubberband something right is you you put it around once and then you double it up and wrap it around the double up and wrap it around. So she, she realized that she could do this and still wrap the hair part all the way around the elastic part to hide it. So it just look like your hair, huh? tying up your hair. And she, you know, we managed to get a broad patent on it that she then got the product into thousands of stores nationwide. And she had a major A hair supply company knocked the product off. And, you know, she sued for infringement and she won. And the other patent attorneys said that we can’t break this patent so that was a rather successful that’s awesome thing.

Jeremy Weisz

I’m curious because you’ve seen so many different ideas come through your your Yeah. What have you seen lately or what have you thought about you just saw something and you thought Wow, that’s a really good idea. It could be patented already or whatever it is, but what are some just good ideas you’ve seen maybe from a software or from a product standpoint, because you could look through this different lens and most people, right What do you consider some like really cool innovative things either now or, you know, lately that you’ve seen

Rich Goldstein

Wow, you put me on the spot. You know, I

Jeremy Weisz

anything technology wise or product wise?

Rich Goldstein

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of these streaming platforms is pretty, pretty innovative. The one I’m using now Ecam, I’m actually really impressed with what they’ve done with that. And, you know, it’s kind of funny like where Canon, you know, canon makes DSLR cameras. They came up with an announcement about a month or two ago, like, Hey, everybody, we’ve just had a breakthrough where you can stream from your still camera, you can set it up, usually they have a great lens. And so there’s great imaging and said you can stream from from this group of Canon cameras to your IBM PC and use it as a webcam. That’s great. But that left out Mac users right and left out a whole bunch of cameras, including mine in the Canon 60 you know, wasn’t on their list. I was like, Oh, that’s great. would have been really cool. I could go buy a new $2,000 camera and beyond. But Ecam they apparently they figured out how to do it and so on. Now I could stream my, you know, five, six year old Canon camera with gorgeous imagery. And, you know, in a way that this major company Canon wasn’t able to. So

Jeremy Weisz

you can see again, Glenn, I interviewed him a long time Glenn and Ken, they’re twins. I think they’re geniuses,Rich, really? I mean, what they do, but they from a young age, created just some amazing software they he sold the first app, a PalmOS app for astronomers. Wow. To calculate the position of stars so if that doesn’t signify genius, I don’t know what does

Rich Goldstein

no, but you know, what fascinates fascinates me about that, too? Yeah. Is that I wonder though, like when you’re selling a PalmOS app? Yeah. When do you realize that the that the the jig is up that people are not going to be using palm next year? I mean, I mean,

Jeremy Weisz

when do you go to them? platform.

Rich Goldstein

Yeah, people that are making blackberry accessories like when did they realize like, Okay, it’s time to pivot to something else. Yeah. And and, you know, apparently they’re, you know, they’re entrepreneurs that like they’ve had successful businesses. So they, they, they know that that’s what I would want to ask them. It’s like, when did you know that? Hey, it’s been great with palm, but it’s not going to be around next year. So let’s not invest any more in in this. Yeah,

Jeremy Weisz

well, I mean, hope. I mean, seems like they learned their lesson if it is a lesson because, you know, you see their tagline we make your Mac life better. They probably don’t know, they don’t see Apple, you know, everything may have its shelf life, but Apple’s going strong. So they build everything on the Mac right now. Not everything but at least the ones a bunch of these are built on the Mac.

Unknown Speaker

Yeah, no.

Jeremy Weisz

Yeah, that’s it. That’s a good point. Um, you know, Rich. First of all, I have one last question to ask you. Before I do. I want to point people towards your site and your podcast, you can go to you know, GoldsteinPatentlaw.com And check out more, you can go to their podcast tab and listen to or if you’re an iTunes Innovations and Breakthroughs, check it out. Um, I always ask, since it’s spread Insider, what’s been maybe a low moment that you had to push through? And what’s been a very proud moment.

Rich Goldstein

All right, well, I’m a business owner, and I have employee so I’d have to say making payroll. Some, you know, I’ve been in business now for 26 years. And so, there have been times when making payroll was really damn tough. So I would say that six out as a low moment that’s occurred, you know, many times over that period. And something I’m particularly proud of is I would say the book is being asked to write the book. And, and putting that out. And then the, the, you know, the reviews I received and the people that have told me that they learned so much from it. And you know, I’m just going to tag on with another thing too is videos, I made six videos nine years ago, and you know, like I did them in a studio, but it was hot that day and I was sweaty, and I had a big pimple on my forehead, but, um, but you know, and my suit didn’t fit too well. It was a bunching up and stuff and, and But nevertheless, those videos like people over and over again have told me how much that they’ve learned from me whether they work with me or not. They learned about the process, it kept them from wasting money. It had them feel confident in going into the patent process. So I guess I’m particularly proud of those two things, the book and the videos because of the way in which it’s made a difference for people.

Jeremy Weisz

So Rich, where should we point people towards we have Goldsteinpatentlaw.com, you have a lot of resources. What what part of the site should they check out? I mean, obviously you have questions you can email, you can contact you through the website. What plate where should they start on your website?

Rich Goldstein

Well, yeah, I’d say go to the videos, which is that you can navigate to it or you can go Goldsteinpatentlaw.com/videos, huh? So So that’s, uh, you know, and, you know, that’s probably one of the the best places to, to learn about the process. And you know, in general, there’s just, there’s a lot of resources on there. There’s a lot of, of information to help you prevent you from just making the wrong decision and going in the wrong direction. With this, I mean, but ultimately, if you have an idea that you believe in, and you feel that it’s something that might have legs, then I mean, we We’ve got a process for that. It’s called a patent evaluation, where we kind of find out from you what you’re trying to do. We do some research to see what other people have done. And then we figure out whether it’s possible to protect it and what the options would be. No. So ultimately, that’s kind of what you want to do. If you want, you can talk to my team and find out about those options. But yeah, that’s it. And then again, lots of free resources there, watch the videos learn about the process.

Jeremy Weisz

So where can people just do a broad search? And this gets people in trouble? Because like, I’m looking at this part of your site, why free online patent research could end up costing you thousands. We are someone just to get a general sense of is this even possible to trademark or patent? What should people look up? What sites

Rich Goldstein

Well, with regard to patenting, you can go to Google Patents which is patents.google.com. So Google has a search engine for patents. And one of the cool things about it and this is the best use of it is As you do some searching, you just type in a query like you do any other Google search, and then up pops a bunch of patents. So if you do that, and you find out that, hey, there’s already patents for the same idea, then then that’s probably time well spent. Because you, you find out, hey, I shouldn’t bother with this. And you didn’t spend any money. And so now you’ve learned easily, not to bother with this idea and to move on something else. But if you search, and you search, and you search, and you still don’t find anything like your idea, that’s what people waste money is by then thinking, Okay, well, it’s not out there. Let me invest heavily into it. Let me do a patent application. Let me build a prototype. Let me get the product on the market. Very often, people search to the best of their ability. But if we do a professional search, we still find it. So they search to the best of their ability. They they think it doesn’t exist. Based on this search, but then we do a search and we find it. Yeah, it’s just it’s it’s it’ll be complicated to go into. But but basically it’s a good starting point search.

Jeremy Weisz

Yeah. patentss.google.com any other online resources just to get a general sense if it’s if they have a shot?

Rich Goldstein

Yeah. And if it’s a trademark then go to the the USPTO. Well, the United States Patent and Trademark Office to search trademarks, that’s the best place so you go to USPTO.Gov. And that’s how you can you can look up other trademarks and find other things that are similar. You’re not always going to know what you’re looking at in terms of like what it means when you find other things like it. But that’s a great place to start.

Jeremy Weisz

Cool. Check out that check out Goldsteinpatentla.com, the Podcast Rich, always a pleasure.

Rich Goldstein

Thank you so much, Jeremy. I really appreciate it. Oh, and thank you for getting me into podcasting. Like most of all, like would you mentioned the beginning of the show of how like strongly and passionately you feel about podcasting, being great for people to connect with others? You pushed me and I really appreciate that you did. I mean, it’s been awesome. So thank you for that.

Jeremy Weisz

You’re very welcome. The best thing I’ve ever done,

Rich Goldstein

Me too

Jeremy Weisz

And for my relationships. I won’t say that about my wife, but in general,

Rich Goldstein

okay with that if I like that.

Jeremy Weisz

Yeah, thanks, Rich.

Rich Goldstein

Okay.