Search Interviews:

Jeremy Weisz 13:07 

You mentioned your parents were in ministry, when you were growing up, what did you want to do?

Philip Hill 13:14 

I went to college, I bounced around a few different majors. And I went and sat down with the dean. And I was like, I don’t think that I’m cut out for any of this. I’ve always just kind of had entrepreneurial spirit, can I create my own major, that is entrepreneurship. And so he sat down with me took a few meetings of like, kind of convincing. And we sat down and made a curriculum together. And one of those curriculums was actually creating a real business. And that business just happened to take off and I dropped out of school with 18 hours left due to that. So I think my path was cut out for exactly where I’ve been.

Jeremy Weisz 13:48 

Talk about what you do for a second at Purebred Marketing. And then Steve we’ll get to you have an interesting story on how you started into the mortgage business. So I’m Purebred Marketing. How do you explain to people what you do?

Philip Hill 14:04 

Yeah, so from high level, we focus on the most profitable revenue channels for direct-to-consumer brands. Those are SEO email and SMS. And then we build affiliate programs for brands.

Jeremy Weisz 14:18 

We will get into building affiliate programs, because you’re building an army of people to promote other people’s products, which is I think one of the best ways is its endorsement. Right, direct endorsement. But we’ll get to that in a second. Steve, talk about how did you get into the mortgage business? And what did you want to do when you were growing up?

Steve Beecham 14:43 

I’ve always wanted to be a racecar driver and I still struggle with that. That’s always been my first it was a motocross racer, and then as I got driving, I wanted to be a racecar driver. So I’m a big race car junkie. But anyway, yeah, I’ve been in a couple of different and entrepreneurial businesses like Philip I didn’t finish school and so I was in this one business getting, just gotten married buy my first house wouldn’t see the guy that friend of mine said, go see my brother and I went down. He said, man, you need to come to work for us. I’m like, I don’t want to wear a coat and tie. It’s not my kind of business, and then the next evening, I was at a party and a friend of mine walked up said, dude, I just got fired from a job, I need a job. I said, hey, call this mortgage guy, he’s hiring, and he tried to hire me. And about a month later, my friend called me he goes man I made like $10,000 this month, hell, I wouldn’t make him at about $3,000 a month. I like really, the next month, man, I made like $20,000 last month. And so for the first time in my life, I said, shoot, man, I got a wife, I’m gonna take a job based on money. And I got into the business. And then they were in the middle of a refinance at that time back in the early 90s. And as soon as I got in, the rates went up, it all dried up, and I went six months and didn’t do a deal. And then my brother bought a house. So I got my first loan, but I stayed with it, I kind of for some reason, liked the way the business worked. It just fit my personality and my style. And so that’s kind of how I did it.

Jeremy Weisz 16:16 

I mean, you’ve been doing this at this point for I think over 28 years.

Steve Beecham 16:20 

Yeah, a long time. And now my son’s in the business with me, and took him a while to decide that that’s what he wanted to do. And then he kind of realized that what we do fits his personalities a lot like me, and, and so we’re both been very successful at it, it’s about for us, it’s a social business, we’re very social people. I collect people for a living, that’s kind of my, my thing. And so, that’s how I do it.

Jeremy Weisz 16:51 

I want to get back to this on bringing your son on board. Right. And the challenges, the advantages, the disadvantages, someone listening may be like, Yeah, I’m thinking of my kids taking over my business or joining the business, I’d love to hear your advice in lessons on that. But let’s talk about building an affiliate program for a second. You know, we’re talking about relationships here. Right. And that’s what it is really what building an affiliate program is. So what are the steps that you take a company through to build their affiliate program?

Philip Hill 17:30 

Yeah. So, generally speaking, when they first come in, we have a strategy session, we’re understanding their target market, and we figure out where their target market is, what are the websites, the publications that they frequent? And then there’s a lot of strategy that comes down, like how do we drive higher average order values? How do we increase conversions? What are the right offers that we can create things like that to basically make the brand more money, right. But past that, it is leveraging relationships. So we are building new relationships, and then continuing to engage those relationships in order for those affiliates to promote our brands. So basically, the way it works is we pitch an affiliate, one of our brands say we have a dog bed brand, we pitch them to promote this dog bed brand, we give them a little unique URL that they use, it’s unique to that affiliate. And so it tracks those clicks. And then if a sale is made, it matches it back up with that affiliate pays them a commission. But where the relationships are really helpful is if you’re trying to do this from scratch, it’s really, really difficult or trying to do it yourself. It’s really, really difficult. But for instance, in the pet space worked with one of the largest pet national pet retailers in the US we’ve worked with dog bed company, dog food company, dog supplement company dogs, super food companies, dog Carsey cover companies, like about everything, you get their cat litter, we’ve gotten into some stuff outside of dogs. So when we go back and recruit a new pet brand, we already have all these relationships, they know who Purebred is, they know the name of the people on the other side of that they know the reputation that we’re going to vet these brands to make sure we’re only bringing in quality brands that are going to make them money in their earnings per click, which is the metric they look at is going to be as high as possible. It is all leveraging relationships. And so we have tools and processes and systems that we can recruit for just about any consumer good product, but the difference in that first three months or so it really overall but especially in the beginning to ramp up is so much quicker for brands where we already have a bunch of relationships because we’re just reaching out saying hey, you know us, you work with us, we have a new great brand for you. They’re like sweet, bring them on, that trust is already built. They know who we are. It’s a game changer in that unlike about anything else in marketing.

Jeremy Weisz 19:47 

So if someone has a pet company, they should call you.

Philip Hill 19:52 

More than that, but yes, if you’re a pet company, you definitely should call us we can help you out.

Jeremy Weisz 19:56 

What other types of companies do you help besides tech companies?

Philip Hill 20:00 

So anything that’s consumer products we can build an affiliate program for you our SEO work like everything we do works well for consumer goods but our main target market what we go after is pet space because we just have so many relationships that really weren’t agency that evolved out of our own brands, our brands were pet brands. So that’s part of why we have so much expertise there. But then the health and wellness space which is now spilled over into outdoor and like we worked with Solo Stove, if you know, Solo Stove, those guys spilled over the outdoor and then like sporting goods, health and wellness encompasses a ton of things that pets space and health and wellness is great because most pet owners are more likely to be a dog owner specifically or more likely to be active and so it’s kind of spilled over there.

Jeremy Weisz 20:47 

Did it start just because I mean I’m looking at your about page here. I don’t know if you still have these three dogs or not. But did it come just from you start working these companies because of your love for pets?

Philip Hill 21:00 

Yeah, more or less so yeah, those were all my dogs gin and juice are on the outside. They’re right here behind me. Those are my first two and then have is over here laying with me right now. But yeah, I got juice, fell in love with him got gin. And then realize that, like everybody that has a dog other the beach and maybe feels a little bit differently about his dog over there that he’ll throw the back of my truck see me across the street, but people love their pets, they’ll spend aimlessly on their pets. And I always say the kids face, the pet space weddings and funerals are where people will just spend aimlessly. And so that’s, you know, understanding that and understanding consumer behavior around that is really propelled us.

Jeremy Weisz 21:47 

Steve, I want to talk about your son for a second. And what are some of the lessons learned by bringing your son on board?

Steve Beecham 21:57 

Well, first of all, you need a good relationship, which I’ve had with my son, Connor, and I think I have with all three of my kids. But in his particular case, he saw me go through the ups and downs of the mortgage business. So our business ever just goes like this, right? We’re kind of tied to the economy economy’s great people buying houses, we’re making money. If economy’s terrible, interest rates are high like they are now we really struggle. And so he saw that as a kid, he actually saw us go through 2009 when we lost everything and had to start all over. So he wasn’t sure he wanted to get into that. But he ended up going and doing another route where he was doing employee benefits. And then he wasn’t real happy in that space. And a couple of people that were mentoring him told him said, Dave, what are you doing, man, you got this great family business. And you got the same skills. Why don’t you go take over your dad’s business eventually. I’m sure it’ll let you have it. So he came and talked to me. And I said, yeah, you got to earn it, but I’ll let you have it. Or I’ll let you buy it from me. And then that’ll be kind of my retirement, you’ll be kind of helping me. And so he got into business. And so I think the big thing was, I had to let him fail in some areas, I had to let him teach me some stuff in some areas. So we both had to be open to new stuff. And we’ve done that, and as he’s gotten more confidence, I mean, right now, he’s doing way better numbers than I am. He’s beating my booty all over the place. And he’s loving every minute of it, you know. So I think the big thing is, is that I got to let him do his part. And he’s got to let me do my part, I got to be open to what he’s talking about. He’s got to be open to what I’m talking about. And we’ve done that, and it’s worked really well.

Jeremy Weisz 23:49 

Yeah, you said like, relationships are the number one thing for you as well. And I’m sure people proceed with caution in this regard. Because they don’t want to ruin their relationship with a family member. It doesn’t have to be a son or daughter, it could be a family member. And that’s a concern. What were the things that you made sure to put in place or I don’t know what ground rules you lay to make sure. It doesn’t ruin the relationship, right? Because it’s easy to bring work back home with us.

Steve Beecham 24:18 

Yeah, but in our world, we live our work 24/7. So I mean, we just work whenever the deal comes in, we work while we’re on vacation, and um, and so he’s used to that. So that was easy for him because that was not unnatural. And him seeing me do that I’m at the ballpark and I get a phone call from an agent. Do I take the call or not? And you just kind of have to work through what’s important and what’s not important. So I don’t think we have problem there, but here’s the big thing that I think about in relationships, and it kind of goes a little bit back to this Jeff Foxworthy thing, and I call it sort of my sex story. It’s like, Jeremy, if you and I were single and we’re 20 years old, we’re in college and we go into a bar, and we look around the room and you look over there and you see a girl and you think she’s cute. And you might say to me, hey, Beech, do you know that girl? And I say, nah, I don’t know her. So now, Jeremy’s got to make a decision, and that decision is probably is, am I gonna go make this cold call? Or am I not going to make this cold call, right? So let’s say you decide you’re gonna make this cold call. And so like most people that go on a cold call, you’ve got to have something in your hand. In business, that might be a koozie, or a flyer or something like that. But at a bar, it’s probably a beer, right? So you go over and you buy beer. Now you got a beer in your hand, and you walk up to this girl and you say, hi, my name is Jeremy, what’s your name? And she says, my name is Sally. And then you say, Well, I’m Jeremy and I got a waterbed. And I live in a high-rise condo. My dad is a doctor, and my mom was an attorney. And I drive a Ferrari and my grandparents are filthy rich, and they got a place in Nantucket, and blah, blah, blah. Well, that girl is gonna go. I don’t want to talk to this jerk. Right? Well, I realized that that’s what most of us do in sales, we walk in and say, hey, dude, stop what you’re doing buy my stuff. I’m the greatest thing sliced bread. It didn’t work. So what works is you go over there, and you say, hi, I’m Jeremy, what’s your name? I’m Sally. Sally, where are you from? What do you study? And where do you do? What do you have fun? The conversation is all about her. All the focus is about her. And then what happens to her as she sits there and you ask her these questions. And then at some point in time, she goes, you know, he didn’t look like an axe murderer. He looks like a fairly nice looking guy. And then what does she do? She ask you the same questions back. She goes, Jeremy, now, where are you from? What do you do? Then you can tell her about your Ferrari and your rich grandparents. But that’s the way conversations go. So what I spend my whole time doing is anybody I run into all I think about is, how can I be Santa Claus for that person. And so I just pour in if they need to meet people, if they need to meet companies, I try everything I can to help those people be successful. And then like I said, some of those people reciprocate, but because I’m all in, it creates wiles and people and then they want to reciprocate. And so I think that’s the biggest thing is that, I learned that I don’t have to wait to see if that’s going to be something that’s going to reciprocate back to me, I’m just all in with everybody for anything. And so I keep a really large, pretty good database. And what I do is I spend most of my time calling all the warm people that I know not the cold people that I know. So as I meet somebody, and I have them in my phone every day, I’m calling 20 to 40 people to say, hey, man, how you doing? How can I help you? How’s the world treating you? And that’s all I do. And then sometime along the day, somebody calls me and goes, hey, man, Jeremy told me you to go-go to do business with. And nobody’s asking me about my price. Nobody’s asking me about my interest rate, somebody pre-sold them to call me. And that to me is a world I operate in. That’s what I’m trying to do.

Jeremy Weisz 28:30 

I love it. I’m gonna pull up this for a second, Steve, what made you decide to write the book, the first book. So if you’re looking at the video, by the way, you can see we’re at, where the books page. He’s got three books here, the Bass-Ackward Business book I talked about. He also has, What’s Your Buzz, and also The Tapes We Play In Our Head. But what made you decide to write the first one.

Steve Beecham 28:56 

So I had a mortgage brokerage firm, I probably had about 10 employees, and there was a law rule change in the industry. And what happened was a lot of the mortgage loan officers that were at banks were starting to feel like that wasn’t gonna be viable for them that they weren’t gonna be able to stay there and make the money that they had been making. So all of a sudden, one day this guy calls me he goes, there’s like, eight of us want to leave the bank and we come to work for you. I said, sure. And then I’m scrambling and then about a week later got called and hey, there’s six of us that want to leave the bank. So next thing I knew, I went from 10 to about 35 employees and about two weeks and I’m going oh my gosh, now what am I going to do? I got to have sales meetings, I got to do corporate kind of junk whereas before, it’s just really entrepreneurial. So I started writing down the concepts that I was using to build a referral-based business because a lot of these folks were coming from businesses where the customer kind of came to them that’s why they were at a bank. And I needed to teach them that. And so as I was writing that down, I was basically what we’d call now creating sort of a white page, and sort of an outline of how I was going to conduct the sales meetings. And at the time I was present in The Mortgage Broker Association, we were having a convention like in Jamaica or somewhere and I’m on the plane with these two other guys that are in brokerages like me, and I said, hey, y’all look at this stuff, tell me what you think. And then we’re going, man, we never thought about this stuff. It’s really cool. Y’all wrote a book, well, then about 2009 happens and the world crashes, and I had a lot of extra time. So I started writing that book. And that book saved me because once I wrote that book, I started contacting people about doing some speaking and stuff. And that launched me into my speaking career. And those speaking fees were what saved me in 2009-10 and 11, when we lost 90% of the people that were doing what I was doing, got out of the business and closed up. So I was able to keep my mortgage company open and generate income from speaking to save me and my family.

Jeremy Weisz 31:10 

Steve, I’m looking at right now, The Tapes We Play In Our Head, right? Yeah, at that point. I mean, you say it in passing, but like, if we go back to that time, that’s a painful thing to go through. What are you thinking in your head at that time? How do you get through that time out the other end? Because people obviously see oh, this is successful mortgage company has probably always been successful. They don’t see the hard times. What were you thinking at that time?

Steve Beecham 31:39 

So I spent a lot of time when I wrote that first book, trying to interview highly successful people. And one of the people that I ended up interviewing was a kid I went to as a kid, a guy I went to high school with, who was a small, small guy, but he was the best athlete anywhere in this part of the country. Because he was small, he ended up in baseball, but he was the best basketball, football and baseball player. He ended up playing in an American League for like 20-something years, what two World Series name was Tony Philips played second base for the Oakland A’s and Detroit Tigers. And I went to high school with him when he had retired about that time, and I ran into him. And I got into this conversation with him. And he said, he lived out in Phoenix and I said, I’m gonna be out there in a month or two. He was in town, like visit his mom, dad. I said, I’m gonna be out there for speech. I said, I’d love to go have beer with you. So I called him and I said, Hey, I’m flying in tomorrow. He said, I’m gonna pick you up at the airport. And I said, nah, man, I got a rental cars, and I’m picking up the airport. So he picked me up at airport and we’re driving in the car. And I said, Tony, I said, you know what, I said, I really don’t know. What’s your situation? Are you married you single? He said, Beech my wife and I are separated right now. I said, but we’re gonna get back together. I said, really? He said, yeah, beech, my shit always works out. And I went, oh, yeah. Then we got to his house, I said, What are you doing out you’re not playing baseball. And he picks up this baseball in his garage. And he’s got numbers one, two, and three on this ball. He said, I’ve been going down to the batting cages, and I’ve been watching these dads trying to teach his kids how to catch. So I took a ball and I made a magic marker on it with one two and three, and I’d say kitchen on one and he said it got to where they would watch the ball go into their glove. So he said, I’m making these balls and I’m gonna start selling these balls and I’m gonna make a bunch of money off of Beech because my shit always works out. And I realized that so that we can I was with him. I heard him say that hundreds of times, my shit always works out. And I realized that that’s how this kid that didn’t have the best situation and wasn’t the biggest kid in the world ended up in Major League Baseball because he believed in his mind that his shit always worked out. And so when my stuff went down the tubes and I was losing everything. I kept saying to myself, my shits gonna work out my shits gonna work out my shit’s gonna work out. And that’s what got me through 2009 and the crash, right there.

Jeremy Weisz 34:14 

This is him. Yeah, I’ve heard of him before for sure. I follow baseball pretty closely. This is great.

Steve Beecham 34:21 

Yeah, he passed away recently had a heart attack. Yeah. But, but just that one weekend, gave me that tape to play. And then as I started interviewing Highly successful people, I started realizing that a lot of successful people have this really, sort of short, quick tape that they consistently play over and over. That’s a proactive positive tape and that people that aren’t successful are paying a short negative tape. Like my mom has said I ain’t gonna work out to be anything, you know, my dad has said, I’ll never be rich, and they’re playing that tape. And so they’re not getting anywhere. And then you got somebody on the total opposite end of the spectrum playing this tape that my stuff always works out, or I’m the luckiest guy in the world that everybody wants to do business with me or whatever it is. And so that’s what inspired me to write that book.

Jeremy Weisz 35:23 

That’s awesome. Steve, thanks for sharing that. Philip on that, what are some of the things for you that you play in your head? Because you’ve always been entrepreneurial? You always started businesses, what are some of the things that you play in your head to keep you going?

Philip Hill 35:42 

No, I really don’t focus a ton on mindset. Not that I don’t think it’s important. But I think I just naturally kind of had a growth mindset, like, I’m never satisfied, I want more, I’m pretty confident in what I do, but always eager to learn and grow. Having a number of employees over the years now that I see the complete opposite of that, it just instills in me, one a little more confidence in the mindset that I have, but to the realization, that mindset is really important, because a lot of these people are really smart, really capable. And then they just won’t think for themselves, or they’re not resourceful, they won’t figure things out. And there’s like the coaching, that week over week is, you are enough, you’re good enough, you’re just as capable as these people you’re trying to put this on, like, you have to break this mindset of yours. And so I think that’s probably one of the biggest things that holds people back. A lot of these people that you meet that are ultra-successful, they’re not any smarter, or any more capable than people that they’re making literally 1000 times more than and it’s just this broken mindset of being just a fixed mindset, what do we call of just being stuck where you are. And if you have that mindset, and you’re stuck in your ways, you’re probably going to be there for a long time to come.

Jeremy Weisz 37:08 

I’d love to hear both of your favorite books or resources. It could be an audiobook, it could be a podcast, it could be a book, what are some of your favorite resources that you’ve learned from throughout the years that you’d recommend?

Steve Beecham 37:26 

Well, I think I got a bunch of them. But I think one of the first books that really helped me in my marketing stuff was Purple Cow by Seth Godin. And then after that Blue Ocean Strategy, which both of those are about how do you create stuff and products that kind of put you in different from anybody else? And then I read a book, and I don’t know where I read this book, and I can’t find this book. And if you don’t find it yet, please tell me because I talk about it all the time. But this guy was writing about, I guess, HR employee stuff. And he’d said, have you ever noticed you never see a professional coach or player complain about getting fired or demoted? And he said, the reason why you don’t is it’s clear to everybody that’s participating what the rules of the game are, you know if you run out of bounds to play stops, you know that if you’re the offensive coordinator, and you’re not scoring enough points, you’re not going to be the offensive coordinator long, if you’re the coach and owner says, I want to get to the playoff by year two, and you don’t and he tells you, you’re gone. You knew that was a deal going in. And he said we don’t do that without people. We don’t spend time sitting down with somebody and being very, very clear about here’s how you fail. This is how you succeed. This is how you keep your job. This is how you get a bonus, this is how you earn less. If we did that, we would have a lot less problem and people would quit before you had to farm. That I wish I could find that book. But man, that’s been a game-changer for me. And then another one I just read was something about enough. And what was it? Oh, another one is Who Not How, if y’all read that one? Who Not How, that was really good for me because I look at something I go man, I want to do that. But I don’t know how I’m gonna do that on my own money. I’m gonna take the time to do that. And that book was about don’t figure out how to just figure out who you know, can help you figure it out, or who can bring the money to the table or who has the expertise. And that’s been the big thing that I’ve been working on lately is helping me expand in some areas that I want to go and I’ve been trying to find the who’s and not the how.

Jeremy Weisz 39:48 

Yeah, I think that one’s with Benjamin Hardy and Dan Sullivan. Who Not How. Yeah, love it. Philip, I thought you were gonna say, Steve, Dale Carnegie How to Win Friends and Influence People?

Steve Beecham 40:01 

Well, actually, they wrote a second book on that How To Influence People In The Digital Age. And I’m actually quoted in that book like page 14, but the guy that wrote that book actually wrote my Bass-Ackwards Business book and put some of that theory in that book, but that and Napoleon Hill’s book Think and Grow Rich, I mean, those, I don’t want us to bring those up, because a lot of people are kind of open to that. But I mean, those are like, one on one, you got to start there. You got to start there.

Jeremy Weisz 40:36

Totally. Philip, what about you? What are some of your favorite books resources?

Philip Hill 40:40 

Yeah, so I read a lot of books. It’s funny like growing up, I never I my way through every book report and tests on a book, probably from middle school, high school college on, I started out reading some of those like Think And Grow Rich and Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and those are kind of simple concepts to understand. Now I read like pretty much only very actionable books. Like you mentioned, Gina Wickman has been on the podcast, I have Traction sitting right next to me, I implemented EOS. I just got done reading Dan Martell book Buy Back Your Time After Workshop that we did with him a couple months ago. And it’s about the best book I’ve seen for any entrepreneur or executive of like actionable steps and resources to help make better decisions. And I’m really high I just finished that book today. I’m really, really high on that book right now and learn so much I’ve heard you so as I was reading the book, like I’m putting all of the stuff to use. I would recommend that book right now probably as much as any maybe it’s because it’s what I’m just coming off of and reading and the next book I’m about to start tomorrow is RocketFuel which is another EOS book.

Jeremy Weisz 40:42

Have you all read that Click Funnels book, the guy, what do y’all think about that?

Philip Hill 42:03

I think Russell Brunson is the best direct response marketer there is other than maybe Dan Kennedy. A lot of his books are very actionable. Some of them are like they all ClickFunnels is a huge company. Right? And so I’ve ended up paying for like workshops for them that there was one that you had 30 days to do just to make sure you actually did it. And the workbook did they send you in the mail, I didn’t get till after my 30 days. So like, they got my money, and I didn’t even have a chance to do it. And then it was just a debacle trying to get it back. But I think there Russell Brand’s I think he’s probably a very good human being. And I don’t think there is anybody better to learn direct response marketing from than him.

Steve Beecham 42:44 

But you know what, that same stuff, I’m reading one of his books right now. And that strategies that you’re doing to put together those Funnels is really the same strategy you need to do to do any business, even if it’s not an online business, telling your story.

Philip Hill 43:02 

The way they do it, and what ClickFunnels is built to do is just so scalable. It’s like testing all these offers, you find offer that works. You just throw money on it, and then that gasoline just lights it up.

Steve Beecham 43:12 

Yeah, yeah. I think it’s a great book for anybody in any business. Well, which book are you reading? It’s in the house, I don’t know. But it’s, I think, I don’t know. I think it’s his most recent one.

Jeremy Weisz 43:27 

They have a bunch of there’s like Expert Secrets. There’s Traffic Secrets, Expert Secrets. It’s funny, you mentioned that Steve, because when their stuff comes out, I will go to their website, I will buy the book, and then I will buy the upsell and then I just follow their market, just from a marketing perspective to see what they’re doing, how they communicate with me, and I will just buy the stuff just to learn from what they’re actually doing. I mean that the stuff is good too. And I had I’m gonna share it with you in a second may rest in peace Dave Woodward, who was with ClickFunnels. He’s not alive anymore, unfortunately. But he talked about and broke down their funnel on the podcast on how their like webinar funnel, their book webinar funnel and how they started, they funded ClickFunnels for webinars and how they sell on the back of webinar. So he walked through the process on it was really cool. And you mentioned for Rocketfuel. The interview I did with Mark Winters, who co-wrote Rocketfuel with Gino Wickman, and I think they have a free quiz on their website somewhere where you can see like if you’re a visionary or integrator or what degrees but that’s also found.

Philip Hill 44:47 

I don’t need to take any of those tests.

Jeremy Weisz 44:49 

You know what it is? Visionary all the way.

Philip Hill 44:54 

All the way. I think we do the psychological assessments for hiring now. And they will tell you very clearly when I’ve taken mine, nobody, if I had to apply for a job, and somebody gave me these assessments, I wouldn’t get a job anywhere. Nobody would hire me.

Jeremy Weisz 45:10 

But I just want to thank both you. Thank you for sharing your stories, your wisdom, everyone can check out to learn more, you can check out to learn more, and check out his books and everything else and I just wanted to first one. Thank you both for joining me. Thanks, everyone.

Philip Hill 45:29 

Thanks for having us.