Jeremy Weisz 13:45
What’s weirder than coming in whenever else portfolio than a garbage bag? I mean, they should just not even have to look at your pitch like they’re in.
Mikey Richardson 13:53
Yeah, I mean, it’s one of those things, though, at the time, it didn’t really sink in just how strange that was. We’re just doing it. For us, it was just like, it’s about the work, right? It’s not about us. It’s not about our presentation. It’s about the work. You know, now that I look back, I mean, the other I’m sure that competitors had really thought about it must have thought were a complete joke. Right. But it was about the work. It turns out.
Jeremy Weisz 14:22
There’s a story I had on it’s funny, you mentioned that, Mikey. So I had on comedian, Elon Gold, the podcast, and one of his dreams was to be on Senate live and he tried off Senate live and he saw this other person come out and he looked, he said, look kind of goofy. He’s like, I’m commuting to this person. And it was Will Ferrell, who he was talking about. So I guess you’re like the welfare of this pitch. You come out and…
Mikey Richardson 14:49
Yeah. 100%. Yeah. I mean, it’s not the first time that it’s happened to me either. Like, you go through a similar experience when you’re trying to get into art school, too, right. You show up on portfolio day, is spread out your work, you hope they like it, and you see all of your competitors like trying that you’re up against, right? And it’s hard to sort of separate yourself from the crowd and not be comparative. And so it was, this is pre-social media. So that was kind of getting into art school was like my first exposure to going, oh, how do I measure up against all these other people? And oh, they look more creative, they look more stylish, they look smarter than I do. Right?
Jeremy Weisz 15:31
It’s always a little bit more intimidating when you’re looking at the competition, then, yeah, focusing on our own stuff. I mean, that’s kind of what social media isn’t to, like, if you go out and start judging myself on other people’s stuff, that’s like, a recipe for disaster.
Mikey Richardson 15:49
100%. And that’s, I mean, you see it in business, too, right? Like, you’re always looking at competitors. And you’re going, well, what are they doing? And they must have some secret sauce, and how did they get this client and then we must be inadequate, and you start to go down this rabbit hole of like, kind of negative thinking versus going, celebrating and recognizing the things that you’re doing well, and focusing sticking to your vision and saying, this is what we do. And we’re going to do it well, and we are doing it well. Right.
Jeremy Weisz 16:23
So that first milestone client, how do you think about pricing at this point?
Mikey Richardson 16:31
That was super tough. Like, we had no idea, right? So back then, we had to put together a scope for like an AOR, right, like a monthly retainer. And I kid you not, we didn’t know that what an AOR even was an agency of record, right? Like we had to ask around, right? So I remember back at the time we had friends who had launched careers in advertising. And so we kind of asked around, like, do you know, your agency would charge on this? In Canada, in Ontario, we have an organization called RGD. They register graphic designers, and they publish some reports on industry norms for fees and those sorts of things. So we started looking at like, how many hours do you think we’re going to spend on this? What’s a reasonable hourly fee?
I mean, we don’t charge hourly, but started thinking about what does that look like? And we went in is similar to what we do. Now, we went back to the client with a model like this is what we’re thinking, then there’s a bit of negotiation back and forth. We built in some checkpoints, like let’s check in every couple of months and see, do both parties feel like it’s fair, and we can adjust from there. And it was just like, kind of open conversation. I think we’ve tried to maintain that to this day, like we try to work with people to figure out that kind of fair value, right, like, here’s what we think, what are you thinking? Let’s talk about it, right?
Jeremy Weisz 18:02
What was the timeline of the project that you were projecting? How long was it going to take?
Mikey Richardson 18:08
So the launch, we had a couple months to develop, I believe all the creative for launch. So there was like, some established media that was going out, both internal and external. And then once it was launched, they had to do a full-on air package, right. They had a team, a creative team that did all the broadcast things. And we were doing all the more print-based work. Once we got past launch, then we flipped over into more of a maintenance relationship where we’re just like, ongoing for the next couple of years, doing all of the advertising communication.
So if you remember TV Guide, full page ads and TV Guide, and all the different local magazines and outdoor advertising, all that sort of stuff. And this is when web, I remember the first website was built during this period, right? So, Web and Digital Communications were just really kind of starting. And we’d make things like banners and things that we’d never even heard of before. It was kind of at that point in time, we worked with them for probably two and a half or three years of essentially maintenance work.
Jeremy Weisz 19:15
Talk about the evolution of your services. It sounds like it hasn’t changed that much. I could be wrong. But like in the beginning, you were going in and you were pitching branding and design ideas. How has the services you deliver evolve?
Mikey Richardson 19:34
Yeah, that’s interesting. I think because of the way in which we were, were founded between you know, Mike, being a graphic designer and myself being more of an illustrator painter. It kind of set the tone early that we were going to do things a little bit differently. So a lot of design agencies at the time were doing your traditional services like brand strategies and logo was visual identity systems like the graphic designing stuff, right? But because we had come at it from this sort of art angle. And Mike, my partner, being a musician and us working on a video together, we had this early mindset, like, we could apply this creative thinking to kind of anything like, yeah, let’s do an ad or, we just had an art show, we could do an event for a client, right?
Like, let’s use our creativity to make stuff. So you’re right, early on it, we’re doing this broad set of things, and that hasn’t really changed. It’s certainly gotten better, bigger, more professionalized. But we still have that, like, we’ll get it done kind of mentality, right. And we still work with people, ideally within the company, but also external partners. If it’s something we can’t do, we’re going to find the right people to team up with and get it done, right. That’s our culture is like, we want to make stuff we want to be challenged. We like it when someone comes to us with something we’ve never done before. And we kind of dig in and figure out how do we do that? Who not how, right, who can teach us? Who can we lean on? How can we bring together the right team?
Jeremy Weisz 21:15
Yeah, if you are, by the way, Ben Hardy and Dan, Salma have a bunch of great books of Who Not How being one of them, I just read The Gap In The Gain, I think it’s called, which is fantastic. And if you’re listening only, I am pulling up the website. Here, we’re looking at Jacknifedesign.com. Be kind of criminal. If I didn’t show your website, we’re talking about design here. And we’re just talking heads. But so you can take a look at this. And I want to talk about your process. Sure. Because when we talk creativity, it’s a blank canvas, you can do anything.
And that’s kind of scary in my mind, but you do have a process about it. And you can see the website, you could say, I love how you do this either. On your website, you’re scrolling down, you have the think the strategy part, establishing the core two design three content. And I want to know if this is actually if you actually do have an album, that’s Mikey Mike. But talk about your process for a second.
Mikey Richardson 21:18
Yeah, so I mean, it’s interesting that our process echoes our deliverables, right. So we don’t have a proprietary, this is the process that we use, we use the Google-able, if that’s a term, creative process, right? So lots of different ways in which is described, but essentially, it’s like, you start with really, truly identifying the problem, because sometimes when the client comes to us, the problem they’re articulating isn’t really the problem, somebody’s got to dig a little bit deeper and find out what are we actually up to, then you’ve got that sort of discovery mode, where you’re saturating yourself with as much information as you possibly can research, interviews, all those sorts of things, we’re digging up information, and that’s part of our think or strategy phase, right?
It could be audience profiling, all those sorts of tools. Then we get into, like, incubation, right, which is the kicking around ideas, doing experiments, that’s when things start synthesizing. And we have different groups and brainstorming tools to start bringing together filtering, editing, synthesizing ideas, and then you get into making stuff, right? So it’s you beta test something, you make a product, you revise, and then ultimately, when you’re done, you go to launch. And that’s kind of why we don’t own that process. I mean, the reason I point out that we don’t own is a lot of agencies love to sort of skin it and say we’ve developed this unique thing. We haven’t, we use the creative process, right? And because we do so many different things, from a deliverables perspective, we try to break it down into these three, right?
So there’s all that strategic foundational stuff, the who you are, what you are, what you stand for. The make is design, typically what you think of from a design company, logos, brand guides, that sort of stuff, and then talk is, the ways in which we connect brands to audiences now is like limitless. From social content, websites and events, experiences, products. You name it, right.
Jeremy Weisz 22:40
So is this a real thing Mikey Mike and the game, is fake. I’m like, I got to go listen to this.
Mikey Richardson 24:39
If you go to our Spotify, we just sort of curated some playlists, yeah.
Jeremy Weisz 24:44
Okay. You mentioned what’s really the problem and sometimes what someone puts in front of you is not really a problem. If the dig a little bit. I wonder if there’s an example you can share of because it is a great example in general of working with clients and getting because sometimes they express their problem in one way, but they feel understood. When we actually dig deep in what’s the real problem? So what’s it will be an example you think back of what a client said, here’s the problem. But when you dug you found what the real problem was underneath.
Mikey Richardson 25:25
Yeah, maybe right off the top of my head, that’d be worked at the company called Woolwich dairy, which is a goat dairy, right. And they’ve been around and started by a family in the 1980s. Just to get a really kind of started at a small scale producing premium goat dairy products. And they built a brand, they had a level of success. They were ultimately acquired by a larger company. And then we were approached with the original sort of challenge of needing to rename the company, rebrand it, make it something else, great products, but it needs a new brand, right?
Yeah. So, we kind of went well, that’s great. And, you know, we love naming companies, we love doing new brands, those are things that we do and we enjoy doing, but we sort of thought, well, is that really the problem? Like is it really the name and the brand, that is an issue here? So it started some digging, researching, learning about the company, its products, went to the farms, met, the farmers played with the goats talk to consumers across the country. And really, it was about what we discovered was the challenge wasn’t the name and the brand identity it was more what this was at the core of the quality of the products, the great stories, the passion that goes into it that wasn’t coming across to the consumer, right? It was to be honest, it may be kind of just a commodity goat dairy product. Yeah, that’s right.
Yeah. There’s no emotional connection to like this really kind of honest company that’s making really great products, right. And these, like people who actually genuinely and care for these goods and love them, right. So it just wasn’t really projecting, it wasn’t truly reflecting what the brand was at the core, we didn’t need to change the brand, we just needed to better communicate to people and we thought, doesn’t need a name change, we developed some new names, we developed some sort of beta test new brands and logos and all that sort of stuff. And we tested that with consumers. And basically discovered, no we don’t need to change a lot of these things, we just need to communicate better, right?
And with some small tweaks, or adjustments here, and there, some better storytelling, and there you have it, right. But we could have made a mistake, we could have made a big mistake of renaming the brand and redoing everything, just to give it a fresh start. And I think we would have lost a lot of what they had worked hard to establish since the mid-80s.
Jeremy Weisz 28:07
I love it. And if you’re looking at this with some cool, you see those little logos of whatever and things and you can see you’ve kind of made some of these special logos for them and their brand.
Mikey Richardson 28:20
Yeah, it’s a fun brand. I mean, it’s pretty crazy how, when someone really does care about the product that they make how that comes through. Remember, we were first in one of their plants where they’re making the cheese and someone had made just a photocopied sign and stuck it to the door, one of the staff members, and that just said, we feed people. And we just thought that really resonates. Like this it was a honest, honest-to-goodness company. And that’s ended up becoming their tagline, right? Like just really, truly honest people that care and that needed to come through.
Jeremy Weisz 28:55
Love it. Thanks for sharing that and what was really the problem because that really, if you would have gone down that route, it would have taken you on and the company on different path that maybe it would have been completely unnecessary and wouldn’t have served their actual needs. What was another major milestone of the company for you? For Jacknife?
Mikey Richardson 29:23
I would say a huge milestone for us was in 2006, around 2006 or 2005. We had been working away since 96, doing our thing, small boutique agency. And all of a sudden we started getting these calls from big agencies, right saying hey, designs a thing. So, we were always talking about design and brand and those sorts of things, but it wasn’t really like a big boardroom topic design thinking right until mid-2000s. I think the Rotman School here in Toronto was a big part of that. And just, you know, design thinking became a topic. And we started to understand that, there’s some value here building for what we’re doing.
So we’re approached by agencies, a lot of people wanted to either team up with us questions around acquisition, there was a big pitch here at the time for one of the big telcos for Rogers. And we were approached by multiple big agencies who are pitching that account, and they need, there’s a design component they needed to team up. So we got called in to pitch on a few. And for us, it was just a call that like, hey, this is something valuable that we can build on. So we started having conversations. And we ended up, through a series of months of combos ended up selling a majority stake in the business.
So we partnered with an ad agency here, called John Street, did lots of great work with them kind of grew our business, sort of, gave us access to some tools that we didn’t have before, even simple things like a full finance department and HR and just like really helping us to make our business even better. Access to new clients, new people. And so that was a big game changer for us. Right? We were in a six year relationship with them. Ultimately, they were acquired by a multinational. And so at that point, we exited and went back to being independent again, but it was a huge shifting point for us.
Jeremy Weisz 31:32
How did your role change after the I don’t know if you call it acquisition?
Mikey Richardson 31:39
Yeah, it was a big shift. Like I previously, I, you know, I come out of art school, I didn’t have access to really how other people are doing things. So creative person thrust into a role of being creative, but also helping to do sales, and being a manager and all these things all at once. It’s really difficult to navigate. Right. So being part of a bigger entity, I could start seeing how other people do. I started learning from other people, I could work with their senior leadership, they’re president and sort of learn things were exposed back to pitching, how does a group like that do it, learn some things there on terms of the tools and techniques that they use, which helped me grow as a business person as a salesperson.
Really great connection with their finance department understanding, really the mechanics of how to properly run a business, huge learning for us. In fact, we still work with someone who was leading the finance team back in those days. So yeah, just like I would say, in terms of like professionalism and my own knowledge and ability as a business person I learned enormously through those six years, for sure.
Jeremy Weisz 32:49
Did you still when they acquired, did you still maintain ownership stake?
Mikey Richardson 32:55
Yeah, they had a majority stake and then we hung on to shares. Yeah. And then when they came to us and said there’s this opportunity to either maybe there’s a way to join us? Or maybe you go back to independence, then we had we purchase back all those shares?
Jeremy Weisz 33:11
Yeah. So when they sold again, did you participate in that particular?
Mikey Richardson 33:17
No, that was when we left. So we’re out on the street. Right. So we left separated the company, it was still it was separate p&l, so they’re separate business…
Jeremy Weisz 33:27
Did you have an option to at that point, was the decision to break off independent or go into this larger entity?
Mikey Richardson 33:36
Yeah, I mean, it was tabled like there was no firm like, no firm offer to join the multinational but it was like, do we want to have a conversation about seeing if you can be part of this, you know, as a separate company, or do you want to go separate and we’ve decided to go a separate way? It came down to a lot of it’s like life stage, right? Just sort of now we love being independent. We like doing what we do. Let’s go back to that. We’ve learned a lot here. Let’s move on and see what we can build now. Right?
Jeremy Weisz 34:09
Was that a tough decision at that point? Because I feel like I don’t know if there was like money in equity involved. Like if they purchase you, then you’re allowed. You can’t take chips off the table again and roll something in?
Mikey Richardson 34:09
Well, yeah, it was a hard decision. And because at this point in time, we were young, but we did have responsibilities, right? Mortgages, families, building families. And so it’s different than when you’re starting a company out of art school. I was 21 years old. I didn’t have a ton of responsibilities. Right? So to kind of launch yourself back into that world, while you’re starting a family, it’s a hard decision, right? Because you’re not just you don’t just think about yourself. You start to question like, “Can I do this again?” You know, do I do we have what it takes. So yeah, it’s definitely a tough decision.
Jeremy Weisz 35:05
From the first acquisition, though you were able to take some chips off the table at that time. It sounds like, Yeah, I had an interview with Todd Taskey. People should check out. He helps pair private equity with agencies and help sell agencies. And you’re familiar with this, because of your experience. And sometimes he has a Second Bite Podcast, or sometimes people make more on the second bite than they do on the first because they sell the private equity, then the private equity sells again.
And like you said, they take some chips off the table, they maintain some amount of equity, and that sometimes when the equity, you know, they sell again, the equity could be worth more the second time since they’ve maybe acquired several companies and have a larger EBITA that they’re selling. So it’s just an interesting model.
Mikey Richardson 35:57
Yeah. I don’t know that it was a model that we had pre-planned like, I know it wasn’t a model that we preplanned when it worked out. Right. So and I mean, that’s the funny thing. We felt like, in our whatever, 27 years now, we’ve been through so many different iterations and ups and downs and economic environments, that it’s just, it’s been a crazy ride, for sure. And shortly after leaving, then we were in conversation with our accountant. And we had a friend who had a related company that we went to school with, he was an industrial designer, and we had done work together and started talking about maybe there’s a way we could combine efforts and merge companies.
And then the accountant said, funny, you should say that I have another client who’s looking to do a merger. And we orchestrated this merging of three companies. And that’s when we became Jacknife. Came up with a new name, we just all three of us had our own brands, we had our own levels of success and brand equity, but we thought, let’s just start over, four partners, new brand, that’s just started all over again, and combined forces. So we did that in 2013.
Jeremy Weisz 37:12
That sounds super stressful.
Mikey Richardson 37:15
And I had my second child at the exact same time. So yeah, while trying to find where are we going to put this thing? We just moved out of a space, right? Like, we’re no longer part of the big agency. Well, where do we live? Let’s do a merger. Let’s have some kids. Like, just do it all at once. Right?
Jeremy Weisz 37:30
What were some, at that point, the services of the different companies, were they complimentary? Were they similar?
Mikey Richardson 37:38
Yeah. So our company, we were called Amoeba Corp. And so we were a brand agency design company. That’s hilarious. You’re just a little amoeba. Yeah. Well, so we put Corp on the end to make it feel more like a proper Corporation. Right. And so one of the companies emerges was a direct competitor. So we were fighting over business. Definitely. And then the other, like I said, was a friend who was in a related business as an industrial product designer. So great point of collaboration. You know, he was designing all kinds of interests, snowboard bindings, and vacuums and all kinds of cool stuff. And we were on the brand side, so it was a natural colab. And then yeah, merging with a competitor was the other part of it.
Jeremy Weisz 38:29
What’s a learning from the merger perspective that maybe you wish you would have known before?
Mikey Richardson 38:36
Ah, yeah, I mean, you learn from everything, I guess. I guess one of the things was, like, doing a sale or acquisition or merge is always going to be difficult when you’re especially and I think, maybe, especially in a cultural or culture-based industry, where personalities are such a big part of it, right, and creativity. So we knew that was going to be difficult merging these three different cultures together. I feel like the biggest learning for me, though, what I would say was just, I think some of the decisions or may be made out of fear, because yeah, we had just left a relatively cozy relationship.
We were looking for a studio space, we weren’t sure how it was all going to work. A little bit heading panic, right? Oh, we got to figure something out. We got to figure it out fast. I got a baby on the way. Right. And so, I’m absolutely happy we did all this, but I feel like, some of the decisions were just kind of rushed and a little bit based in fear. Because we’ve got to do something, we’ve got to act fast. Right. But like they say, right, being decisive and making a call is sometimes better than overthinking it, right.
Jeremy Weisz 39:50
This is super interesting, your path of this? What would you have done differently with the integration, whether someone’s buying emerging? I know the integrations is a difficult thing. Looking back, what would you have done differently knowing what you know now with the integration portion?
Mikey Richardson 40:10
I think a big part of that is time, like we did it so fast, right? It just happened very, very quickly. It didn’t give us enough time to do a great job of communicating what we’re doing. And I’m speaking mostly internally with like, all the different people involved, making sure everyone understands the plan or lack of plan, and we’re bringing people along for the ride involving people wish you would have maybe had some time to like, better work with our teams to help make decisions or help figure out how we’re going to do certain things.
It really was, like, led by shareholders, combining our things and then sort of like, communicating that to all these other people involved, important staff members, people we’re working with. And like I said, it worked out but I wish it would have been a little bit more methodical, a little bit more thoughtful and considered over a longer period of time. But we did have realities, we had to make it happen.
Jeremy Weisz 41:12
It’s interesting because I know the companies have different processes, especially if one of them was a direct competitor. So they have certain ways of probably pitching something and processing something you a different way. How did you end up coming to a joint process I guess you could say, so that there was streamline across the company? Maybe that took years? I don’t know.
Mikey Richardson 41:34
Yeah, it did. It took a lot of time. And it took a lot of constant attention, a lot of conversation, a lot of back and forth. When you have shareholders that are used to being more independent making their own decisions, that it can be tough when all of a sudden you’re in a code decision-making mode, right. And so yeah, it was hard, like lots of like, comparing and contrasting. And I think that drew, the first couple years were tough because it a lot of energy was poured into how are we doing things and sort of managing internal opinions versus just getting it done? Right.
So yeah, it was hard like, and again, all of these things arise after we’d merged, right? So let’s put it together. Okay, now what, how are we going to figure this out? Right? Which honestly, it’s like, sometimes had we said, oh, we’re gonna maybe stretch this out and think it all through, I don’t know if it ever would have happened, right? Like, we’ve kind of, it’s the same as they first started out of art school, we rented a studio space, we’d have a client, we thought, while we’re doing this, this is what’s going to happen. We’re in a company now. Now, let’s figure it out. And this is, again, we did the same thing. We’re a merged company. Now we’re a new thing. Let’s start sorting it out. Right.
Jeremy Weisz 42:51
So like, how did you land Nike as a client?
Mikey Richardson 42:57
Interesting. So we had done some work with Nike, Canada, prior to the project are showing now so we had done some retail communications for the different Nike stores and footlocker and athletes were all in those sorts of things in Canada, that slowly transitioned into doing some event work. So we did a big sort of art party for them called The Art of Speed, and then started doing these like branding and doing creative work around these one off events. So we built a bit of a portfolio, but then randomly, we were approached by Nike out of Portland, so they have a division there that’s completely concerned with Workspace design. So all the different Nike workspaces globally.
So, to this day, I don’t know how they found us, may have been just on a simple Google search or maybe through word of mouth within the organization. I’m not sure but it was a separate relationship. They came to us and said, we’re getting a new headquarters in Canada. We certainly want to tell the story, the Nike brand, but we want to localize it, like let’s look at Nike through a Canadian lens in this new HQ.
Jeremy Weisz 44:10
So beer and hockey all over it. I’m just kidding.
Mikey Richardson 44:15
Beer and hockey. Yeah. It’s funny, though. There’s executions where we’re focused on like the landscape and snow and having fun with some of those stereotypes for sure. Like the wood executions that you saw earlier on the strips, those are all made of maple, lots of different subtle ways to do it. Right. Yeah, so it was really about bringing this space to life through branded executions or interactions, as we call them throughout the entire headquarters.
And this kind of happened. So I think maybe the second big environment we had done, we had done Mondelez headquarters in Canada prior to this again, they’re huge. Yeah, it was someone saying, hey, is this something you guys can take on? And said, yeah, we’ll figure it out. And it kind of builds, right? So we do Mondelez. And then Nike calls. And then people started seeing this work. And it’s kind of a niches on a lot of folks to do it. And it’s led to many projects since like, we just did athletics headquarters in Los Angeles. It’s amazing. It’s a really fun space to work, I mean, understanding of brand creating these interactive kind of art pieces, and then bring it to life in a big 3D space. It’s a unique challenge for sure.
Jeremy Weisz 45:38
Wow. This is huge undertaking. I can’t imagine. How long did this type of project take?
Mikey Richardson 45:44
Oh, geez, I’m trying to think back, it’s one of those projects where honest you lose track of time, because there’s so many late nights and pizzas and working sessions, but I’m gonna say, probably a four or five-month process.
Jeremy Weisz 45:57
Wow, I was thinking four or five years. That’s short.
Mikey Richardson 46:03
Oh, no, I mean, this was particularly rapid, right? So yeah, it’s months long, and like, energy-intensive, you’ve got a big team on it. High Stakes, I mean, they’re very famous brand, obviously, and working with their workspace design division that like these people are really good at what they do. Right. And so it’s an amazing experience.
Jeremy Weisz 46:26
Oh, Mikey, this is amazing. I have one last question for you. Before I ask it, I want to just point people to check out jacknifedesign.com to learn more. And just thanks for sharing your lessons and stories. My last question is just some of your favorite resources. Resources could be your favorite books that you learn for business, it could be a mentor, that you learned from what are some of your favorite resources that you can share with us?
Mikey Richardson 46:56
Honestly, thinking back to when I was mentioning in 2006 understanding this design thinking becoming a big thing I started reading a lot of Tom Peters books. Just love his writing style, love the way he’s breaking things down. It became a educational for me in helping me to better articulate the things that I intuitively knew right and then I could better communicate to our clients what we’re doing and why that brings value. So I mean, definitely a standout for me in terms of authors would be Tom Peters. I’m constantly absorbing books on just like creativity and art process and technique and things unrelated to brand or design but things more about, like the creative process. So what’s his name is escaping me. Music Producer just released the book on creativity.
Jeremy Weisz 47:54
Oh, yes. I know. I’m gonna look it up right now. It just released like a few months. Rick Rubin.
Mikey Richardson 48:04
Yeah. Rick Rubin’s book. It’s amazing. It’s so inspirational. You know, just let little tidbits things…
Jeremy Weisz 48:10
The Creative Act. That was a book.
Mikey Richardson 48:12
Yeah, amazing book. Mike and I were constantly digging into history. So we’re pulling ideas and inspirations from flea markets from art history, I love to travel galleries I was in Austria this time last year, just like going to galleries and pulling ideas and inspirations from the work there. And I find that, I tried to avoid really contemporary publications because I thought we’re always recycling who’s doing what and I try to tune out of that to a degree and kind of dig into the past a bit more. So, love it. Music constantly inspired by music.
Jeremy Weisz 48:52
I just want to be the first one to thank you. Everyone should check out Jacknife Design more episodes of the podcast and we’ll see everyone next time, Mikey, thanks so much.
Mikey Richardson 49:02
Amazing. Thank you.
