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Jeremy Weisz  16:21  

That will be an example of a healthy struggle that parents could, you know, utilize? Or is it just something that comes up naturally?

Lee Benson  16:35  

Well, it’s going to be age appropriate. So if your job for the family is to do your homework and become disciplined around that, you know, some kids aren’t as disciplined, some naturally are, but a lot of them have to work up to it. So it’s a healthy struggle there to get to a place where you have the discipline to do the work. Understand the time it’s going to take, you’ve got time management in there. So figuring that out. That’s it, that’s a healthy struggle. And rather than waiting for it not to work, why not? And we outline this in the book, why not have boot camps in the kitchen for the family?

So here’s a number of skills that you’ll need. How do you greet somebody? How do you go to the airport? How do you get a ride home from the airport? How do you know, really do anything, any skill, even making the bed as kids are young. And learning how to do that? Well, we have a little class, maybe we have a daddy boot camp, a mommy boot camp and there’s things that they do with the kids. So you’re learning the skills and there’s going to be a little bit of a struggle around all of those things. And the goal and when you’re designing healthy struggles for your children, to start where they’re at, take a step forward with that struggle, don’t make it too easy, it’s a little bit stretch, but don’t make it so far out there that they just can’t take that that next step, and then you just build on it over time.

And I believe, once they get on that track, they won’t want to get off and they’ll be intrinsically motivated and driving towards it. And again, creating value isn’t just money. It’s spiritual, it’s emotional. I’m into music, and I really like playing guitar. And for those out there that write songs that positively uplift people. And sometimes you know, a billion people on the planet will hear it and feel better afterwards, they just elevated positive emotional energy in the biggest possible way, what a great way to create value out there.

Jeremy Weisz  18:31  

Yeah, I could see that with the tasks and the things that they’re responsible for. And it’s empowering. It’s really empowering for them. I know, what you just told me is, Listen, you’re making your lunch. And once daily, I just make my own food and do that it becomes a confidence builder. Even just simple skills like that. So I see exactly what you’re saying, You’re doing

Lee Benson  18:54  

your own laundry, all of it. We have examples of families where the parents have said, we can’t get our son to do anything we ask our son to do. And so we lay out the gravy stack method and and we’ll have what we call action gigs and brain gigs, when action gig is something you do like wash the car for extra money at brain gig, learn this, prove that you can apply it appropriately, successfully, and that you can get extra money for that too. They laid all of this out how much they’ll pay for each one of them and their son just blew through all of it. Like it just was a super motivator. And so I think we expect them to just do what we know they should do and that doesn’t sound kind of familiar with leaders and companies? How come they did this? They should just do that. But we never told them and we never trained them. So I think it’s the same thing with the kids. We have to just gradually step them up through these healthy struggles.

Jeremy Weisz  19:51  

Yeah. And we’ll get to kind of things you put in place but I think it will kind of overlap with your book and what you talk about your book which if you’re watching, if you’re watching the video, you’ll see, you know the value creation kit I both have in my audible book value creation kit and also your most important number. Talk about your most important number. And what made you decide to write this book and subhead is increased collaboration, achieve your strategy and execute to win.

Lee Benson  20:20  

Yeah, my goal is always sort of been with the companies that I have. And now with all the clients that I work with, how do we get teams to create value faster? And how do we get them into that mindset? And there were so many evolutionary steps in my thinking. And my approach is I was building different companies in particular able aerospace, it was the biggest one of the companies that I built. I learned that traditional goal setting doesn’t stand the test of time. And if you ask everybody to create their own goals, and get it approved by their manager, rinse and repeat, and you know, every quarter or every six months and go through it, when you audit those goals, 90% or more of them just aren’t very thoughtful. And I know a lot of folks out there that use OKRs scaling up EOS 40x. There’s a lot of popular systems.

And, I asked them, in fact, I talked to a gentleman last night, he said, Yeah, we use OKRs. And do it for years. And I said the challenge with OKRs. And it goes back to, you know, traditional goal setting doesn’t stand the test of time. When I asked the senior leaders to explain OKRs to me, or objectives and key results, they had a hard time explaining it. And then when you get down one or two levels in the organization, they’re completely lost. So my question is, what are you doing, you’re making the process more important and what is most important? So what I learned is that teams like to operate a lot like playing a sport. What’s the one number that says your team is winning or losing the game over all other numbers, and there’s another characteristic here, it has to drive the majority of the right behaviors, it’s got to meet both of those tests.

And so where are you at? Now? Where are you going? At any point in time we can track, do you know where we’re at that number? Are we on track at risk? Are we behind? Are we overdriving it? And it’s a really interesting discussion that each team has to come up with, and we have clients from for employees to 40,000 employees. And every team has a most important number, and they have drivers and other elements that we’ll get into. But the team comes up with their most important number and HR is typically the most interesting in terms of how we have that discussion. And it’s probably one of the best, if not the best examples. So HR would say 98% of the time when I talk to a new team, well, it’s got to be retention or it’s got to be engagement. Is it okay? Well, let’s play that out. Because it needs to drive the majority of the right behaviors.

You hire me to run HR, you make retention, my most important number. Three years later, I’m 95% retention, amazing. I’ve knocked it out of the park, my numbers are green, nobody’s ever done it in an industry, forget the fact that 75% of the employees can’t achieve the outcomes required of their role. So I didn’t drive all the right behavior. So a better most important number for HR would be the percentage of seats filled with capable people. So when you design the structure of the organization in a way that will achieve the outcomes, you want profitability, impact, whatever. And then, and then you fill that structure with roles in every role will have two or three outcome based responsibilities that are measurable, and maybe a set of 10 or 30 capabilities to achieve those outcomes.

So now you look at everyone, and you say, Well, what percentage of the team members are delivering or over delivering and if I’ve got 100 employees and 80 are delivering over delivering 20 are under delivering, we’re at 80%. Now the behavior changes, we’re recruiting better, we’re onboarding, training better the ongoing training better, we’re providing leaders with tools so they can develop their people on a continual basis. And we’re, we’re really doing it so we get to a place where 90 plus percent of the team members are delivering or over delivering on their outcome based responsibilities, you’ve got a winner there. And the thing I love about the book, top grading, and that conversation that you had, is that, you know, we all want the top 10% to be everywhere. But I love the concept and it sounds really good. And everybody would nod, but it’s virtually impossible to do that.

What I’ve noticed with the mind methodology is that when every team member knows what’s expected, and where they stand regarding performance 100% of the time, and they’re crystal clear on how their team creates value and how they contribute to it. They develop so much faster, like they just start rising up into that top top 20 And when you would sort of look at you know, average across a lot of companies in your sector. So wildly important to get that right. And then every team has a really cool discussion right? What is that number that does those two things? And it could evolve a couple times on their journey to learn how to create the most value almost never changes once a company is established at the top. And once you get it, the most important number doesn’t change. But the work you do to continually improve, it will always evolve going through.

Jeremy Weisz  25:19  

You mentioned, you know, and I’m sure there are mistakes, it’s different departments make, like if the HR really is just measuring off of retention is not necessarily driving the right behavior. What are some other mistakes you’ve seen certain departments make when trying to come up with what is that most important number? Yeah.

Lee Benson  25:42  

Well, getting your head around it. So the first thing I recommend is read the book and you’ll get the concept and there’s a lot of people out there DIY buying it and getting really great results. But then you can go off the rails in virtually any department. And I’d say the biggest mistake would be, well, this should be the most important number, but we can’t measure it. So let’s make it something we can measure. And, you know, one big machine shop I was working with, you know, it should have been an improvement in gross margin with all the things that they control, but they couldn’t measure that. But they said what we can measure is the percentage of time the stuff that we send out for processing to come back for machining is shipped on time, we’ll make that our most important number just simply because we can measure it and it’s like timeout, that’s not going to let’s talk through the behaviors around that.

So I would say that’s it. And and, you know, there’s there’s a lot of other typical big messes of finance, for example, whether you have you got a CFO controller, you got it, maybe you’ve only got 50 employees, maybe you have 10,000 employees, but when I talk to the leader, so what do you think your most important number should be? And they always say, well, it’s going to be profit or, or delivering financial statements on time and all of that. And well, how well do you think you’re doing that? And so we’re great, we’re amazing. And I look at the reports, and often Yeah, I can spend four hours reading through this stuff. And I can connect all the dots. And I go to the senior leadership team and ask the question, how are you using this information to make better decisions to improve your most important number, profitability company, whatever it is. And over 90% of the time, they got nothing. They just said, “Oh, we did this much in sales.

And this is what was left over and they get back to their job. And I think in most for profit companies, the most important number for finance should be cash flow. And their job is to educate every leader at every level, even frontline working supervisors, to help them discover not tell them but help them discover the 2346 numbers that they can leverage to make much better decisions around to improve profitability of things and cashflow, you know, going forward. So a lot of these, you know, financial teams will just be so proud of their work.

But they’re not looking at well, how are we enabling everybody to make better decisions to improve profitability and cash flow, and they need to kind of flip that on its head. And I could just go one to the next you got supply chain, you have sales? Yeah, marketing. It’s such an amazing conversation to have. It’s not about the activity. It’s not about admiring your work. It’s about creating value faster, and how you fit in with the rest of the organization.

Jeremy Weisz  28:30  

And we were talking before we hit record about that is a major thing that you think about and that you help people with, which is creating value faster. And you talk about some rules of engagement. With that.

Lee Benson  28:44  

Yeah, the concept there is that we need to create the conditions from which everyone creates value. So whether it’s within a family and the point of the value creation kid book, or it’s a for profit, nonprofit, you know, government organization, what are the rules of engagement? What’s the system? What’s the intentional way that we’ve all agreed we’re going to create value. And, and a lot of leaders that I talked to, and I’m sure you’ve seen this, they’ll say, Hey, we’re, there’s this thing that’s going to be so good for the organization, and the CEO, or the senior leader is very excited about it. And it might have taken them 20 years to figure it out. Like really get it Oh, my gosh, I get it now. And the team doesn’t get it immediately.

And they go they don’t get that they’ll never get it. I was like, Oh my gosh, if it took you 10 years to get it, can we at least give them 10 minutes, or maybe maybe 10 months. And so I think our job as a leader is to create this environment, these rules of engagement within you know, which every team member operates and learns to create value to discover over time, how to go faster. So when you intentionally create that environment and talk about value creation, everybody goes fast. Are they just doing it? And I think a great question for anybody listening here would be to ask each of the leaders within reason and your organization, depending on how big it is, how do you create value for this organization?

And then ask a number of non supervisory team members, how do you create value for the organization. And typically, what I get before we come in with this methodology is a job description. And then after the methodology is going forward, a leader will say, Well, the way I create value is, we’ve developed this most important number, this is above all others are winning or losing, and it drives the majority of the right behaviors. Here’s where we’re at, here’s where we’re going. Here’s the best work that we’re doing to make sure we stay on track or ahead all the way there. That’s a pretty darn powerful, you know, answer to that question.

Then you ask a non supervisory employee that’s entrenched in this while I’m on this team, this is our most important number and why this is my role. These are the two or three outcomes that I’m responsible for. And this is the best work I’m doing to help the team stay on track or ahead on our most important number. Wow. And wouldn’t every leader just dream of their team members, not only getting it and saying that, but fully doing it and not just checking boxes?

Jeremy Weisz  31:14  

It gives them a framework for them, to empower them to make decisions and to improve whatever arena they’re working with. Apps, you’re training leaders, in a sense with this. You’re training leaders, you’re

Lee Benson  31:30  

training non supervisory employees, you’re getting everybody’s head around this concept of value creation with just so much intentionality and clarity. You, you can’t help but develop faster. I’m not a fan of most leadership development programs. I think we’re wasting 10s of billions of dollars across the country. And I’ve asked leaders and HR, some pretty large companies about their leadership development programs, but how’s it going? It’s going great.

Our leaders love it as well. How are you? How do you know it’s going great? Well, we get surveys, and they say they enjoyed it. They said, Well, do you have anything that directly connects to improving the numbers for each of the leaders? No, we don’t have anything. Okay? And then I just politely suggest, why don’t you buy movie tickets instead, because they won’t take as much time, it’ll be less expensive, and they’ll see something they actually want to see. And I’m not saying there’s no value there. There’s relationship building and everything else. The thing I love about leadership development within the mind, methodology is you have a leader, here’s their team, here’s the most important number, maybe they’re behind, and you start going through the meetings, here’s what they’re talking about, here’s how they’re making decisions.

Here’s all the action items that the team’s team members are committing to the drivers, which are categories of work that each team should be really good at leveraging to improve their most important number. And I know within 10 minutes exactly where that leader surgically needs to be developed. Exactly like this is the thing holding you back. So I’m not going to recommend a book, I’m not going to send you to another state to sit in a room and learn about theoretical leadership concepts. We’re going to develop you right here.

And I’ve had a number of leaders ask me why I just like to work on myself, and what books do you recommend I read? Can I just sit back and talk about this stuff? And I said, Well, what’s your intention here? Do you want to develop as a leader to get better results, or just explore what’s out there. And why I want to get better results. I’d love to do that too. Because I’m not interested in the other stuff. And I’ll give you a list of hundreds of programs and books that you can just go read and figure it out. But I’m going to look at the one or two things at any point in time that you need to strengthen your capability in to get better results. And it works.

Jeremy Weisz  33:49  

One of the stories. Lee relates to Jack Welch Can you talk about Jack Welch and your relationship?

Lee Benson  34:01  

In 2008 he was teaching. I just found this online. He was teaching a two and a half day leadership course and it was all about his approach going towards a super mini condensed CrotonVille experience if you will. And so I go there and I’m in the room all of his paid $10,000 is set there I’m coming off a $10 million a year and and most people in the room managing over a billion dollars in business I didn’t I wasn’t sure if I fit in or whatever. But on day one, I’m sitting right up front at a table and the podium is like right there and he says okay, we want to do an exercise discuss it amongst yourself and then somebody report out what’s your mission supporting values because that was that’s really important to me and I want to have that discussion. So we talked amongst the table. Nobody knew there was one person who was part of a mission. One knew a couple of values. I said well, for me it’s in my bones like I’m, we live in a breed that connects culture to financial results everyday. and creating value.

That’s the most important thing that we do. So I’ll go call our table first. He says, Okay, what’s your mission? I said, Well, you know, give me a short version. But our mission is to safely reduce aircraft operating costs. And it was meant to tell customers why they should do business with us, and why every employee gets a paycheck, because we don’t create that value for them. Then our jobs are in jeopardy. He goes, that’s great, what are your values? And I said, Well, gosh, I threw values out of that time, about nine years earlier, because I had a set of values, the top was integrity. And nine years earlier, we had 70 employees, and I asked 10 of them, how are you applying integrity to make the organization measurably better? And I got 10 Crazy answers that told me I’ve completely wasted my time. But I have beautiful wallpaper around the facility with stuff on it. It’s so great, right?

So I said, Well, we had a mission that was a lot more intentional, what can we do with values. And I and I said we wanted a set of behaviors, not values that would create the conditions where at any point in time, 50% or more of our team members are behaving and performing as good or better than the top 10% of our strongest, most admired competitors. If we can do that, we when surveyed all 7068 responded came up with a huge list. So now rather than integrity, it said high performing team members throughout April if the time is able to engineer, do what they say they will be an observable part of integrity or they’re fully engaged in participating within the team. They treat company resources as their own. They present permanent solutions as opposed to dwelling on problems. I’ll remember these forever, because every six months, everyone, including myself, had examples that we talked about with a team of how we applied it to make the results better. So anyway, Jack’s Jack has this really strange look on his face. And there’s this long uncomfortable silence, and I’m thinking, Okay, I should probably just leave.

It’s either really good or really bad. And Ray, and he just said, that’s perfect. I wouldn’t change anything. And then as he went around the room, I realized why he hesitated because everybody else’s sounded like a marketing slogan, not something you could sink your teeth into. So on day one, I didn’t get selected or drawn to sit at the table with Jack for lunch, but I sat down at a different table. And as I take my first bite, he sits right next to me. And he says, I’ve done this 1000s of times. Nobody’s ever gotten it right until you how the hell did you do it?

And my answer, I still remember it well, I believe we’re trying to continually create more value and we’re applying math, common sense facts, logic, to doing that, and we’re leaving all political BS and everything out of it. I don’t care who you are, or how big the scope is of what you’re responsible for, you’re gonna go down the same road and pass the same road signs and wisdom epiphany and everything. And then he and I became friends at one point. He and Susie were a 10% owner in my company ETW. Amazing, amazing, amazing guy I miss. I miss our conversations. I felt like he was a mad scientist trying to create value faster and spread all of this, and I’m doing the same thing just at a much smaller scale than when Jack was running. I had so much respect for what he did.

Jeremy Weisz  38:06  

What’s something you learn from Jack? Over the years?

Lee Benson  38:12  

I really like his leadership traits, you know, he would call it four E’s and a p, you know, positive energy, good times and bad times, energize. You want to create an environment that energizes your team, you want to have the edge to make difficult decisions. That’s where most leaders really fall down. They don’t want to have conversations around, hey, please do what you agree to. We’re doing what we agree to execute, you have to get results. Passion, you have to be passionate about what you do. And there were others he used over the years and I actually added resiliency and organizational trust in there.

And I’ve you know, kind of lived those and developed my leaders through those. You know, the concepts. If you go to the Jack Welch Management Institute, where every team member should know what’s expected of where they stand 100% of the time, everything gets better. How could that be wrong? You know, it’s always interesting watching the media blow him up as a really bad guy, a villain or a hero. I mean, it kind of goes back and forth. And what he told me and I spent, I went to a couple of these courses that he taught him in our friendship development, I went to Florida, we spent about nine hours one day going through all this stuff. And he said, for everything you’ve ever heard about General Electric, the best we could ever do is fully follow their position and develop the top five to maybe 600 leaders out of 100,000 plus employees.

Once you got below that it was this big check the box exercise. And he said if he had our operating methodology and system and I developed software around this to make it easy as a tool to hold it together. He said the results would have been exponentially better because he would have been able to develop and follow in position personally the top 2000 leaders in the organization, in his mind was 100% develop people and even more lean towards the end was 6070 80%, depending on what was going on in the business of my time was working with, you know, team members, mostly leaders developing them to get better results.

Jeremy Weisz  40:12  

There’s so much to unpack here lately. That’s why obviously people should get the book because you’re, you know, the book, you can find it your most important number. But, you know, CEOs, founders, listen to this. And, you know, you mentioned developing people. Where should a founder CEO listen and start? You know, maybe they’re reading different books, maybe they’ve tried to apply different methodologies? Where should they start? Or at least let’s say they get your most important number? What chapter should they flip through to go? Listen, my most important thing that I want to do is develop

Lee Benson  40:51  

people. Yeah, I wanted to make it easy to read the audiobook. I do 25 minute interviews after each chapter just for more background and insights. And if you make it all the way to the end, right at the end of the audio recording, which I did here, in my music studio, I do an impromptu three minute guitar solo. So that’s there all the way at the end. But the challenge with saying, hey, I want to just develop people or I want to, I want to, you know, really work on my culture, or I want to do this other thing over there. You’re to some degree, you’re playing whack a mole, I think the more important thing is to put a operating methodology in place that the senior leadership team takes really serious like, we’re going to do this, and we’re going to cascade it out. The mind methodology is elegant, it’s simple, so easy to understand, so easy to scale to the frontline.

And take that seriously. And then within it, once you’ve got this infrastructure set up as operating methodology, it’s easy to, to enhance all the pieces of it, the leadership development piece of it, because if you’re going to do leadership development, if you don’t have the foundation of every team has a most important number, every leader is clear on how they create value, and the ability to see the best work they’re doing to improve it. Where do you develop them, you read a book, and now you want everybody to read it and have a discussion and then get back to work.

And they’re usually anxious because they’ve got so much to do, what are we setting in this conference room for right now. So this foundational operating methodology, I think, is by far the most important thing to do and the books a quick read, it’s not not that long of a listen, to get through it. So get it would get your head around, being able to do that. And then from there, you build and we have t shirts here at ETW that say do less better. So don’t try to do 500 things. What are the two or three fundamental things that you’re not doing nearly as well as you should? And lean in and do it and sometimes the easiest things to look at are by far the hardest to do really well.

Jeremy Weisz  42:59  

And I know, you know, leave for you. You have a lot of different types of companies, right? There’s manufacturers, nonprofit, there’s marketing, there’s legal, there’s financial, just talk about for a second, so people can understand a little bit about how it works to work with you. And I showed the website, ETW, check it out et but um, I don’t know if it’d be better to talk about a small manufacturing example or a marketing company example. Which one should we walk through?

Lee Benson  43:29  

Yeah, there’s many examples in the for profit and nonprofit world where the results accelerated quickly. There’s a small manufacturing company that was making about a quarter million dollars a month in profit, which is a nice solid profit, but they were stuck there for three years. And after 15 months, we got it to $1.25 million a month in profit. Who wouldn’t like that? It just worked and was just so much fun watching everybody and all the teams energize and surround those results.

A local nonprofit part of the Maricopa County hospital network and they were sort of sleepy in my view and a lot of years never quite hitting $2 million in revenue to have their desired impact. And the first year was over 4 million then it jumped to 12 million and then it jumped to 20 million and we didn’t go in and give them money. We just changed how they thought about it and how they connected with people. So it’s it’s it’s back to there’s no single silver bullet you actually have to do the work but do the work within an agreed upon way and or operating methodology of creating value.

Jeremy Weisz  44:42  

Can you in the small manufacturing example an example of one or two things that they started to implement? I mean, obviously you can’t go through everything. Going from 250 a month to 1.2 5 million a month is tremendous growth. What’s what were a few there are house Throughout the process, well, structurally, they

Lee Benson  45:02  

They did most of the manufacturing in house, they did some of the special processing, but they would outsource heat treating, they had marketing, they had sales, you know, supply chain and all of it. And there were issues everywhere. And when I asked the question, what’s the total addressable market? They didn’t have an answer for that. And so shoring up marketing, shoring up sales, shoring up operations, so we’re just scouring through getting all the efficiencies they were designing, you know, new products. Why are we developing these 15 things when this one thing we’re not developing has more market potential sales potential for us than these 15 together, so we started racking and stacking projects by ROI wasn’t one thing, it was like everything kind of all at once. And for me, it’s so much fun to watch this, and then you get leaders running with this stuff.

And unfortunately, some of the leaders weren’t capable of thinking this way yet. I personally believe everybody can get there. But sometimes you don’t have two, three or four years to wait. And so you have to move them into some area where they can truly create value. So their self esteem is protected, and they get a leader that can run with it for a particular function. But it was literally everything. It was how they said strategy. It was a sales market, it was everything.

Jeremy Weisz  46:19  

How do peak companies engage with you? So [email protected]? You know, going to the mind methodology, what are the ways people work with you?

Lee Benson  46:32  

really three things when you go to E There’s the book, which is a great place to start to see if it resonates. I actually run personally, and I’ve certified a number of folks to do this. But I personally run CEO mastermind groups that use the methodology, and are limited to eight leaders. And, and we know what winning looks like, at the end of this year, the following year, what the most important number is for each of the CEOs in the group, what are the drivers they can leverage to improve it’s most important in our perspective, as we want to keep every leader on the leading edge of that critical point where they need to be to create the most value next for their organizations.

And we think about every member like this is a conglomerate, we’ve invested over half our retirement money into it. And we want a good return. So that influences our questions about what we want to see happening, you know, how we feel about it, and the results are crazy good. It’s not like there’s value and most gruesome but it’s not like Vistage or YPO, or EO and a lot of these others in totally different formats. I’ve been part of groups like that with overlap for over 40 years.

And this is just so much more focused on what I do that I’m probably going to set up one more virtual group this year. So if anybody listening is interested in that, reach out. Second part is we have internal consultants and quite a number of externally certified consultants to help you implement the mind methodology in your organization. So we can go through that. And then and then we have I guess the third thing would just be the book on there. So those are the those are the three things

Jeremy Weisz  48:13  

So when I’m on here, what is a leadership forum and those jumpstarts and comprehensive as a comprehensive having someone help implement?

Lee Benson  48:23  

Yes, going forward, you can sign up for our leadership forum, you get our content, you get all of that the Jumpstart is and we think we can do this we want a little help up front and so great, well, we’ll do a six week one month is six weeks typically it’s six weeks jumpstart a quickstart and then if you want comprehensive it’s it’s a 12 month program where we’re with you for eight weekly meetings and at least once a month for the remainder of the year plus training and configuration and everything else in between. And the single biggest failure point when it doesn’t work which is not very often is when the senior team doesn’t take it serious

Jeremy Weisz  49:05  

well if I were to do this, I’d want face time with you this specific team member foxy because that one looks like the most the cutest out of

Lee Benson  49:15  

everyone archived the chewing office. Exactly. I’m a favorite tutorial

Jeremy Weisz  49:22  

for you know, Lee. When you sold, was there anything? How quickly did you get right back into the trenches? And you’re just like, or did you take a break? What was your thought process after you sold?

Lee Benson  49:38  

Well I was already, I’d already started ETW so I just turned the page and ran and I didn’t even want to sell the company. It would have been an equally good if not better option keeping it. We were doing so well growing so fast. My lifestyle hasn’t changed at all from before I sold it to after I sold it. Things are fantastic. stick but for my brain I just have to keep doing the work and this is like breathing for me and I talked to a lot of leaders I just want a big exit and I can go you know, sit on the beach or do whatever they like that’s not even close to interesting to me like I need to be in the mix here and keep my brain going.

Jeremy Weisz  50:17  

I want to be the first one to thank you for sharing your journey, your knowledge and stories with all of us. Everyone can check out To learn more and the books that we mentioned and just thank you so much. Thanks everyone. Thanks Lee.

Lee Benson  50:35  

This was great. Thank you so much.