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Joel Erway  4:19

Those are two great spots to start.

Jeremy Weisz  4:21

So talk about, you know, the concept of the mini webinar.

Joel Erway  4:28

Well, so in order to understand what the concept of the mini webinar is, you have to really take a step back and, and understand that, you know, I don’t know if you’re, if you’re like me, I overanalyze everything, and I’m an engineer, by trade and so I go into geek mode. And, and it’s a it’s it’s a gift and a curse. It’s a gift because I usually you know, once I find something that works, I understand it intimately well and at a really deep level. deep knowledge deep level. But the curse is usually takes me a long time to actually like take action because I have to overanalyze everything, right. So the good news is, is that when we launch something new, like when we went from, we initially went from just doing traditional, you know, hour to hour long webinars, then we discovered many webinars, and now we’re doing info cast like, this isn’t just like a flash in the pan type thing, like, oh, there’s something new like shiny objects, shiny object, shiny object, like going from webinars to mini webinars, took like, three years, going for many webinars now to understand what info casts can do, that was like another five years. So you know, in order to understand where to apply each of these mechanisms, like you have to understand one core thing. And the one core thing that you know, that that you have to understand is the type of lead that you’re attracting, you can have either marketing qualified leads, or you can have a sales qualified leads. So what are marketing and sales qualified leads? Well, simply put a marketing qualified lead is somebody who is just generally interested in your topic that you are talking about in your market, like they’ve just identified themselves, they’ve self identified themselves as, yep, I’m in your target market. That’s it, there’s no urgency involved, for them to actually have a problem solved. There is no problem that they’re even aware of right now. They’re just interested in your content. And so you know, look at top of funnel, middle of funnel, bottom of funnel, they would be at the top of funnel. So that’s the larger pool of leads, like the you know, the largest pool of leads is your marketing qualified leads, there’s nothing wrong with trying to acquire marketing qualified leads. In fact, once you get to a certain stage in business, like you want to generate marketing, qualified leads in and feed your sales team. Well, then you got sales qualified leads. So a sales qualified lead is somebody who has not only raise their hand and said, Yes, I’m in your marketing. But they’ve also raised their hand and said, I like your process. And I’ve got a problem that I need solved now. Okay. So it’s gonna be a much smaller segment than your marketing qualified leads. But the number one thing that has identified them as an SQL is they’ve got urgency involved, I’m ready to make a decision, like in the immediate future. Okay. And so in order for me to like, this took me a long time to really understand that. So if you go into the beginning of when I launched the webinar agency, all we did, were the hour to two hour long webinars. Jeremy, you know, you know, I don’t know, if you under if you know what, you know, the answer is this question. But if I were to ask you, you know, what is a long form webinars, you think that’s to generate marketing qualified leads? Are they used to generate sales qualified leads?

Jeremy Weisz  7:39

I would, I would give sales qualified leads, that’s,

Joel Erway  7:43

well, that’s actually, it’s actually marketing. So like, it does both, right. So like, long form webinars are, like the Holy Grail of like, marketing in this is, in my opinion, this is one of my clients, like they, they like webinars, because they, you know, when done correctly, they can educate somebody, and then they can make an offer at the end. But they’re incredibly difficult to get right. There’s a lot of moving pieces, but they are actually a marketing qualified lead tool, meaning you will promote a webinar and say, hey, I want to give you a free training to learn how to do X, Y, and Z. Right? Free training, hey, learn more, and at the end of it a small segment and be like, okay, cool, like, this makes sense. Let’s talk. But the vast majority of the people are still in information gathering mode. And this was a big misconception that I didn’t understand back in the day. And so, you know, when you go after marketing, qualified leads, what number one thing that you have to have on your side is time. I mean, like, you need to have time nurture those people, because the vast majority, those leads are not gonna be ready to buy right now. So then I started to think, Okay, well, if, you know, if I want to accelerate the sales process, right? How do I do that? And this all came from the struggle that I had my own personal webinar. So as the webinar agency, like I had to, you know, eat my own dog food, right. So I ran my own webinars to get clients, et cetera, et cetera. And it was the cobbler, it was the cobbler that didn’t have any shoes. So like, I had the worst converting webinar of all my clients. And I’m, you know, I’m hiring consultants, I’m hiring people to pay, you know, to review my webinar, hiring agencies run ads, like the whole nine yards, I spent probably 50 to $75,000 trying to get my webinars work. Now. It was profitable, but like, just barely, like, I had to pay my sales team I had to pay, you know, fulfillment costs and pay for ads and all the coaching and consulting. And it wasn’t, you know, just wasn’t scalable. wasn’t at the point where I knew we could just, you know, spend $1 make three, four or five back. So after about a year and a half of like, beat my head against the wall trying to get this thing to work. I said, You know what I’m going to do? I actually read I read this book, I was called How to create an irresistible offer. offered by Bob Bly and Bob’s a super smart guy. Love Bob, because he gave me the single greatest, the single biggest aha moment in my entire, you know, entrepreneurial career. On page two or three of that book. There’s a chart, you know, I love Bob to death. I love his work. But, man, he speaks at like a grade 12 level, I need to comprehend it like a grade one level. So I almost skipped over this chart. But this chart explained the difference in cost, like it explained how cost per acquisition works as it relates to the type of content you produce. Okay. So this chart said, performance degradation as brand content increases and offer cause more

Jeremy Weisz  10:47

like college level not Yes.

Joel Erway  10:50

Exactly, exactly. So in a nutshell, he was saying, if you publish a piece of content that is primarily brand driven, and doesn’t have an offer in it, or doesn’t have a call to action, your cost per acquisition is going to be the highest. If you publish a piece of content that is primarily offer driven, your cost per acquisition will be the lowest. There was some other stuff, he kind of went in a grading scale. But that was the gist of the message like, Oh my God,

Jeremy Weisz  11:17

he’s basically saying, make an offer. This is what exactly,

Joel Erway  11:20

exactly he’s, you know, so like to summarize it, you nailed it Jeremy’s like, you know, if you want to do less marketing, make more offers, if you want more clients, do less marketing, make more offers. And I think, you know, we get in this cycle of like, just wanting to, you know, educate as educators is what a lot of us are, right? Especially if you’re a podcast, or you’re a content creator, or educators. But you know, we want to give, give, give, give, give, we’d like to teach, we’d like to inspire, we’d like to tell stories. But you know, at some point, you got to make an offer. And so I read that it was clear as day Jeremy, I remember this clear as day I was laying in bed, awake, staring at the ceiling fan with the book right there. It was like Page Three is 11 o’clock at night. As soon as I read that, I said, I got it, I get it. Now I slammed the book shut and jumped out of my bed, ran downstairs fired open the laptop, and it created what is now called, you know, I didn’t notice at the time, but it was the first version of what I call a power offer. And I said, I’m going to publish this to my social media feed, not going to look at it until tomorrow morning. And we’ll see what happens. Go to sleep. I wake up the next morning I had like 30 or 40 people raising their hand saying, hey, let’s talk that offer. This was awesome. Let’s talk. And by the end of you know, within 48 hours, I had close to $25,000 clients, one had paid in full The other was on the wait list. And the rest is history. So I know there’s a long drawn out answer of what’s a webinar mini webinar info cast, but like the premise like I can’t just give you the tools without understanding where they apply to. And if you don’t understand what a marketing qualified lead and the sales qualified lead is, which is urgency, then none of that other stuff matters. So

Jeremy Weisz  13:05

that makes perfect sense. I mean, if you go through the webinars designed to attract a mark, you know, someone’s interested in the marketing piece. And then by the end, you want to convert them from marketing qualified lead into a sales qualified lead. But if you just make the offer, you know, according to what you said, Bob Bly, like, if there’s an offer in there, like here’s how to create a webinar, there’s no offer. It’s a marketing qualified lead. So once you make an offer, it’s now sales qualified lead, can you give an example of a power offer your power offer?

Joel Erway  13:38

Yep. So I would say that, you know, not all offers are created equal, like offers, like you can have a free offer, like, you know, registering for a webinar, that’s an offer, right? It’s, you know, hey, give me your name and email, I’ll send you to this free training, right. But we want to make an offer that’s specific to work with us, right. So that that first power offer that, that I that I mentioned earlier, I’ll give you that as an example because that’s the one that kind of like, lit my world on fire and, and, and allowed me to never go hungry for leads ever again. That one was targeting course creators, and we were offering our webinar writing services for them. So I said, You know what, Bob says, you know, do less marketing, make more offers, here we go, this is what I’m gonna say. So I published this this script on my social media feed if you’re listening right now, you can, you know, you can model it, do whatever you want. I mean, we have our own little mini offer for the power offer. And we can go to power off You can learn how to write this. I’ll give you the script right now like this is this is what you will learn inside the course and you can get some additional examples there. That first one that I wrote was attention course creators. If I offered to write you a right you have a right to a webinar guaranteed to convert in 24 hours or less, without you needing to worry about what to say or how to Say so you can enroll, you know, more clients and more clients, and more customers and clients now, like, would you take them up on that offer? That was it like that was the like, that was the power offer. I had a couple more lines of copy down below. But that was it. And that was how I landed to $25,000 clients for our agency in 48 hours. So it’s if I, you know, attention, primary avatar, if I offer to get you some sort of result, without ABC hurdles that you know, they’re facing, would you take me up on that offer? That is the power offer? That’s the power question. It’s all about getting them to think about a question like getting them to start to engage with that, with that, you know, with that idea, and if it’s compelling enough, like you will get hand raisers, I can’t tell you how, but we’ve had 1000s of people take that power off for workshop training, and they’ve generated millions and millions and millions of dollars, collectively, just using that, just by putting the power offer out there. Like it’s, it’s wild. Like, that’s probably the single, like, biggest needle mover that we’ve had in the you know, in terms of influence and impact in the industry. So I’m very proud of that. It’s, it’s, you know, we’re very proud of of of being able to get that to the

Jeremy Weisz  16:23

table can check it out at Is that a good place? Okay, cool. So check that out, for sure. And then I’m wondering, you know, what stage are people ideal to come to you Jolson, were talking about, they go to The Webinar Agency, you mentioned course creators, which makes sense, because they’ve already kind of figured out, they have something to sell, you know, I would think that someone who’s just starting out is not a great fit, maybe they’re better for your courses. But from the agency side, you want someone who’s kind of further down further down the path. So I can see how that’s a fit. Listen, I have this course I put my blood, sweat and tears in it. And I want to sell more of this course. What’s an ideal fit for you to come for The Webinar Agency piece? Where are they? Where should they be at in their business?

Joel Erway  17:11

Great question. It’s less on qualifications of like, where they’re at in their business, and more so qualification of their commitment level to themselves. Meaning like, if they’ve made the decision that yes, I’m going to be a full time entrepreneur, like, I know, this is what I want to do, like it’s, it’s do or die, we can work with them. Because we do work with a lot of, you know, you can call them startup stage and call them early stage, but like, you know, they’ve just got an idea. And they need help turning that idea into something that’s compelling that can actually go get clients, right. So like our prime, like, you know, yes, we do webinars, and many webinars and info cast that’s like the mechanism of what we do. But what we really do is we design offers like, because doesn’t matter what mechanism we we put in place, if it’s got a horrible offer horrible messaging, it’s not going to convert. And so I would say it’s more so like, if, if you’ve made the full commitment to be a full time entrepreneur and really take this seriously. And you’re like what we say like you like my methodologies you like the idea of the power offer you like the idea of like a 10 minute mini webinar, then, yeah, let’s let’s chat. I mean, like we have, we have different levels for different levels of service for all all sorts of different types of people. But the first stage we do with anyone, is we create an offer for him, like before we even get them into, you know, ongoing services. It’s like, okay, first step, let’s get an offer. And let’s get it to convert. So,

Dr. Jeremy Weisz  18:40

you know, chill you, I’ve heard you say some of your most successful clients are open open to changing their offer and pivoting their offer. Right. So because some people are attached to an offer, possibly, yes. So can you talk about pivoting the offer and, and I don’t know if you can think of an example of someone who doesn’t hold too tightly, because really, the market speaks, right? If the market is not liking the offer, the market doesn’t like the offer you don’t want. So talk about pivoting the offer.

Joel Erway  19:15

A couple of months ago, I was working with a client, his name was Russell Lundstrom. I love him to death. He’s like super, super smart marketer. And like, you know, some people make the false assumption assumption that just because you’re a great marketer, that you can, you know, market your own products and services like we all need help, right. So the experts Chris and can’t read the label from inside the inside the bottle. I need help. I hire marketing consultants all the time. And somebody was working with Russell, and he was in one of my programs for about a year and he was struggling. He was launching 60 or 70 different power offer iterations. And he’s like, it’s not hidden. It’s not hidden, but he never like, never quit, and he never complained like it I knew he was going to have success, because there are people out there that, you know, they hit adversity once, twice, three times five times 10 times, like they’re gonna, they’re gonna quit and they’re gonna, you know, they’re just because this stuff doesn’t work. But Ross was like, No, I know this works. I’ve seen it happen. And, you know, I just I get it like, I’m just not hitting it. Right. And so he’s going through and and I’m like Russell, I really think you should try to like, let’s pivot the offer to this avatar. I really think that that has a good probability of working. And so after about a year, he finally heeded that advice. And you know, he’s like, Alright, let’s try this

Jeremy Weisz  20:37

almost like similar messaging. But different avatar.

Joel Erway  20:42

Exactly. So he was trying to offer some form of marketing services to like fortune 500 companies or fortune 1000 companies, like targeting CEOs targeting executives and targeting them with Facebook ads. Is it possible? Yeah. It’s happened in the past, like we’ve had success with it. is the largest market out there No. And so that that’s what the data was telling him. And I voiced my concern early on, I said, Listen, I think you can have success, but I think it’s going to be a slow burn. I said, if you can change your avatar, and now like, help other marketing professionals, like give them the skill sets that they need to go work with these fortune 1000 companies or fortune 500 companies, I think you’ve got a much bigger pie there. And I think you’ve got a really compelling offer. I asked him, I said, is that something that you can do? And you would want to do? He said, absolutely, that would be within my wheelhouse, like, Alright, cool. So about a year later, he finally did it. And he went from, like, not being able to really close anyone, and just getting a trickle of leads coming through to doing two to three sales a day. So like his lead flow exploded, you know, very similar messaging, just like making a two millimeter shift to a different avatar, same offer same fulfillment. And it was just night and day difference. And so that’s happened more times than I can count.

Jeremy Weisz  22:06

I love it. So in the beginning, I mean, I love how you said that, because it doesn’t just have to be the messaging, people can tweak the messaging until they’re blue in the face, but just shifting to a different end user, it could just make all the difference in the world. No, so now he’s putting that out. And there’s a lot of one on one, you know, probably talking on the phone people selling when somebody gets something of that working. What do you recommend next? For them? Yeah, if

Joel Erway  22:32

they get the lead flow coming in, and they’ve got an offer that’s converting, so they’re closing it 20 to 30% of their phone calls, the very next step they want to do is, you know, is Okay, number like at that point, you have to make a decision? What kind of business do you want to run? Okay, do you want to keep this as like a low key lifestyle business where you’re bringing in 30 to 50k per month, that’s you and assistant and add on maybe a part time, you know, staff member, which you know, you can you can totally do? Or do you want to take it to the next level, where you grow this to a larger, you know, a larger business, start bringing on some some additional team members, delegate your sales calls and, and, and build an operation around that. That’s essentially where we’ve where we’ve seen the choke point hit is like, you get to 30k per month, 50k per month, you’re doing everything on your own. You have to make that decision. Now. Where do you want to go from here? Do you want to delegate your sales calls? Okay, you got to go find a salesperson, right? Do you want to bring on additional team members to support your fulfillment? All dependent like that, you have to make the decision? Pretty much right there. Otherwise, you know, you’re not you’re gonna be limited on your growth, and you’re gonna get burned out, and so

Jeremy Weisz  23:48

that we can zoom out for a second Joe, like for the Russell? Example, what does the funnel look like? Is he does he have a webinar that he’s driving traffic to that’s generating calls and then sales? Or what is the front end of that look like for, for him or in general?

Joel Erway  24:07

Yep. So for him, it’s the power offer ad. So it’s an ad that attracts sales qualified leads. And so it’s, you know, right up front, it’s a Do you want my help with this? Do you want to work together? Yes or no. And if they click through, then they hit a landing page. And the land landing page is all sales qualified lead messaging, which is very similar, like hey, you know, we’re looking for clients to get this result. If you’re interested. Click here to apply, or click here to learn more, right and so it’s very much Hey, this is this is a sales funnel, okay, this is not a site you know, register here to get a free PDF or free training or not, it’s apply now. And so then, you know, they opt in there. They start the application. They watch many webinars and here’s a little bit more. Here’s some information on how we plan to fulfill on the promise because your power offer is just your promise. That’s all it is. And so like once you make that promise, that’s your what? The next stage, if people make it past the what stage and they’re interested, they want to know, how do you how do you fulfill on that promise? And that’s what the mini webinar is all about. How do you fulfill on that promise? So watch the mini webinar, fill out an application, and then they book a call. And that’s it. I mean, so it’s really, you know, a three step funnel, three or four step funnel? I mean, with tech now, I mean, you can we’ve been able to kind of minimize the number of pages. And so it’s, that’s irrelevant, but like, you just want to make sure that you’re making the offer up front, getting them to fill an application book a phone call. That’s it.

Jeremy Weisz  25:39

I’ve heard people have varying opinions on at what point do you give them the option to book a call? You know, I’m wondering your take, you’ve probably seen in probably a various depending on the offer and the landing page, but I’ve seen it where you know, the Contact page, and then they follow up with that, because it’s a bigger commitment to obviously choose a time, just have them fill out a form? Or do you have them choose a time I love your thoughts on I will point you actually introduce here, book a time. Yeah,

Joel Erway  26:11

we will always have them fill out an application first, before they book a call. There are some instances where we remove the call booking step. And this is the part where it now becomes more of an art than a science, because it varies with every single offer. And we talked about what makes a sales qualified lead a sales qualified lead earlier on. And that’s urgency. You take it a step further, there’s different levels of urgency as well, like so people can be urgent. But then people can be like, really urgent, cannot have a better way of really explaining other than that. But the more urgent the the problem is, or the solution is that you’re offering, usually, the higher the show up rate on your calls. And so we’ll always start out by getting them to book call first, and we look at okay, what’s the no show rate? What’s the lead quality, and that’s where the artistic form comes in. Because there’s all sorts of different optimization triggers and levers that you can pull. But we’ll always start by getting them to fill out an application and then book a call. And then optimization comes in, it’s like, okay, cool. Do we remove the call booking step, if the, you know, if the no show rate is really high? Do we remove the call booking step? And, you know, put another, you know, qualification step. In the meantime, there’s a lot of things that we can do. But we’ll start by having them you know, fill out an application vehicle.

Jeremy Weisz  27:33

You know, you mentioned Bob Bly’s book, and there was a page that really resonated, you immediately changed something you’re doing. So I want to for your High Ticket Courses book, I don’t know if you could just hold it up for a second. If you have it handy. And people can get it on Amazon? I don’t know. Can they get it on your website too? Or is do they just go to Amazon?

Joel Erway  27:55

Yep. Go to Amazon. That’s the best place to get it. If you want especially want a physical copy of the book we ever so often we give away the the ebook copy on my website, but like, you know, in terms of an evergreen standpoint, it get you can get it physically printed and shipped to you from from Amazon.

Jeremy Weisz  28:11

The reason I asked about is because like what do people report to you being that light bulb when they check out your book like you did with that Bob, like page three, or whatever it was? What do people what’s the lightbulb moment or moments from your book that people report?

Joel Erway  28:25

That’s part of it. So that one, that one story about Bob is like a three part sequence that I tell inside of the book, where it is the light bulb moment for me that I need to make the offer first, sales first, then marketing and because everything leading up to that, and what a lot of people think is they think the ascension model, they think give away something for free, build the list give value eventually somebody is going to buy. And that’s it’s true. Yes, that is true. But it is a it’s a numbers game. And like it’s a it’s a law of large numbers. And so I flipped it on its head I said no, I want to go the dissension mount route. Because, you know, I also give this Chet Holmes wrote a book called The Ultimate Sales Machine. I referenced that in the book as well. He talks about the buyers pyramid. And you know, the short answer of this is that you’ve got 10% of your market that’s ready to buy right now. Everybody listening right now, if you’re listening right now you have 10% of your market that’s ready to buy right now. They will buy or they will they will consider buying if you can make a compelling enough offer. And so that combined with Bob’s book, the light bulb moment went off for me saying screw it, like, okay, yeah, I know. That’s the smallest segment of my audience, but there’s probably plenty of people to go fish there. Right. And so that like to put them where the rubber met the road was when I was running my long form webinar. The problem that I ran into was that I was over educating my market meaning

Jeremy Weisz  30:00

I expected from an engineer. Yes. I mean, that is, that’s kind of your nature, right?

Joel Erway  30:06

It is. It is. And, you know, I underestimated how large my ready to buy market size was. and I started to think about like, well, how many people have you know, my, if my ideal avatar is somebody who’s probably already bought a webinar software, they’ve already tried to write a webinar or themselves, they have probably tried and failed. Like, even just looking at the software user base. Like, those are my potential customers like the people who are ready to buy right now. And I was completely going after the unaware market. I was trying to educate them on why webinars are the greatest thing since sliced bread, why you need a webinar and you know, trying to sell why webinars why webinars why webinars when I could have just gone after the webinar audience, and if they already know they want a webinar, but they are just trying and they’ve tried to create one themselves and they failed. And so I overlooked that. And when I shifted that I said, Nope, screw it, I’m just going after them.

Jeremy Weisz  31:03

And I’m gonna make them an offer.

Joel Erway  31:07

It was it was a game changer. For me. It really was, you know,

Jeremy Weisz  31:10

I love how you talk about the, you know, the dissension model, because a lot of people do talk about the ascension model. And I you know, I encourage anyone to check out your site and consume some of the information because you do talk about this on there, too. I love to talk about a few examples. Joel, you know, a few examples. On one people can maybe start more in the startup stage they can relate to and then one, if they just want to pour fuel on the fire they can relate to so one of my favorite latest books is the one that Alex Hormozi wrote, which I think it was $100 million dollar offers. It was called and talk about Alex and some of the things that you worked on together.

Joel Erway  31:55

Yeah, Alex, super smart guy, young kid, you know, kind of the diamond in the rough. Right? You know, he’s just really, really inspiring story. So Alex and I got introduced to each other back in 2015 2016, we were part of a mastermind together. And I was working I was I was in that mastermind, I was known as the webinar guy. So, you know, handful of of members in the in the group would come to me like, Hey, I heard you the webinar guy. Let’s let’s do some more together. Alex was one of those guys. And this was prior to him launching his 100 million dollar business, right his 100 million dollar offer, you know, venture for what led him onto the onto the rocket ship, right? So he came to me and at the time, Alex was like flying all over the country. And he was helping people. He was he was helping people launch their gyms, like really, like, fill up their gyms. Like he was extremely skilled at it, right? He’s, he’s a rockstar salesperson. He had the marketing background as well. But he came to me, he’s like, Hey, I really want to launch this, this online program, this group coaching program. And, you know, I heard I, you know, I was bad been advised to a webinar to sell it, or to the webinar guy. So we started working together. And at that time, I was I had tested out the first version of the mini webinar, and it was doing very well for myself. And I said, Alex, I think we should really try this because you’re like, gym owners, they, they’re extremely time poor, they have no time in the world to sit down and watch out an hour long webinar, right? He’s like, Alright, let’s do it. So we created a power offer, we created a mini webinar. And within the first, I think it was like six months. And I mean, the testimonials in my book, but within the first six months, we went from zero to $400,000 per month, when he was booking calls for like $5 apiece, $10 apiece, $12 apiece. And Alex is an extremely skilled salesperson, he was closing like 70 or 80% of them at, you know, he, like this is like early stage startup of, of this program, like this was this was like the start of 100 million dollar offers, right? It was when we were working together. And so, you know, so he was I remember, we were going back and forth. We were texting back and forth, because like I would get applications. And you know, I was scaling up my applications. And he was getting I was like, Man, I got another one. I got another one. Just got another one. Just got another one. And so we had this little competition going, and I’ll never I’ll never forget it. But yeah, so within six months, he was doing 400 grand a month. Would that would that program and obviously he’s gone on to do some some really incredible things. And so, but that was, you know, you know, it was I was honored to have a part in in that launch. And that was all because we we made offers, you know, and even before we did that we did try a long form webinar. At first. We spent, I don’t know three or 400 bucks, and we could tell it was just going to be a dud. And that’s what I told him. I said, I think we really need to I think we need to shift this. Let’s flip it on its head. And let’s try this this direct approach and it’s just night and day is not even the Proper content contrast to give the give the two to the two tests.

Jeremy Weisz  35:04

I love it. And then you worked. I’m talking about Boyd.

Joel Erway  35:09

Yeah, so Boyd, I have a few clients that are like the shining case study of like what you do when, you know going from the ascension model to the dissension model and how much of a shift that can make so Boyd is a information tech, he works in the information technology space. So he helps employees in the IT space, level up their career and get them like a six figure job in cybersecurity. It’s a very niche field. And he can get them, you know, six and multi six figure careers. So for the first eight months, he had been trying to sell this program, he was following the ascension model, giving away a free report, trying to sell them on like a $7 membership or a 300 ollar course or a $500 course. I think I remember him telling me at one point over the first like six or eight months, I think he only made like 800 bucks, or like $1,000. So then he found some my content. And he he saw the dissension path in which I talked about and they learned about power off. He’s like, Man, this just makes a whole lot of sense. So we worked with our agency, we wrote his offers for him. They said, Okay, this is where I want you to go. And I want you to change the price of your program from $500 to $3,000. Minimum, I said, you’re helping people land six and multi six figure careers. There’s value here. And a lot of people in the education space in the course space. Like that’s a big jump for them. Like sometimes they go from like $50 programs, I tell them like you got to go to $3,000. And it’s like, they get really, really nervous, and they get really nervous. So anyway, he’s like, Okay, I’ll do what you say, the first month

Jeremy Weisz  36:49

that he wants take any coaxing Joel, as far as like, Hey, you should go there was $100 or 3000. Was there anything you said to help them shift the mindset or he’s like, I trust you at that point.

Joel Erway  37:00

If somebody’s in the low ticket mindset, like 100 bucks or even $500, you just have to walk them through the economics, like the unit economics of how difficult it is to make that work. Right, because they they probably already bought it. In fact, they need to run paid ads like so if you’re selling $100 course, like you need to be acquiring customers for under $100. Or you need to, you know, do back end offers and upsells and blah, blah, blah. And once I explain that, you need to be great at copywriting offer writing funnel building, media buying email marketing, like, it’s essentially I broke it down at one point, it’s like eight or 10 Specially specialties that you need to be a master at to make the low ticket stuff work like right out of the gate. It just doesn’t make sense. I mean, it’s a very compelling argument. And it’s just the truth. I mean, I spent $250,000 of my own money trying to do like, once I finally got to the stage of writing a book, which should be seven years by the way, like I didn’t start out writing a book. I spent 250 grand, and it still wasn’t as profitable as like the other models that I teach. And so with Boyd though Boyd was very open to it, he was very receptive. He’s like, okay, I get it. I’ll start at $3,000. So I’m comfortable doing that. But that first month, I mean, he went from zero to $40,000. in month one, I might be I might be off a little bit with the numbers, but it was substantial. Now, mind you, he had only made about $1,000 in the first eight months. And when he flipped it on its head going to, you know, $40,000, it might have been within like the first 30 days of launching. It was it was a game changer. And Boyd is also very systematic, and he’s very, he’s an intelligent guy, like really, really proud of what he’s done. Because that went from $40,000 in the first 30 days, then he in about a year, he scaled that to $250,000 per month, then he went from $250,000 per month to a million dollars a month in like eight months timeframe between those two milestones. He’s crushing it right now. He just it’s it’s a really, really inspirational story, obviously, to get to those levels. $100 million in revenue, a million dollars a month in revenue, it takes more than just a compelling offer, but you can’t get there without a compelling offer. Right? If it’s like that’s, that’s number one. That’s rule number one.

Jeremy Weisz  39:23

You know, Joel, some people may you’re like, this seems like way out of my reach way out of my realm. What about talk about Susan, as far as you know, maybe a little more relatable, as far as you know, going from someone thinking of going from zero to a million dollars a month or something like that? Yeah.

Joel Erway  39:45

Susan has a great story. And Susan that Susan is actually more relatable to me, because have I ever done a million dollars in a month? No, my business has never done a million dollars in a month. And, you know, I choose to live a lifestyle business. I’ve had the opportunity Need to build a big team and to really take it to the next level and go, you know, you know, chase that eight figure multi eight figure business, try to at one point and you know, the lifestyle that was that was that I saw in my path to go get that he was nothing that I wanted. So I live

Jeremy Weisz  40:18

with after you. Yeah, after you talk about Susan, I’d love for you to talk about the concept of the semi retired life. Yep. So Susan

Joel Erway  40:27

came to me. And she’d been following my stuff for a while she purchased some right webinar programs back in the day. And she was in the process of reinventing herself. So she was a seasoned, you know, entrepreneur business veteran, had launched multiple offers in the past, but she had kind of shut down her previous life or previous businesses and was ready to reinvent herself in this new realm. So she, she reached out to me and she said, Hey, I’ve been following your stuff. I really like what you’re doing, I get this idea, that power offer and, and the mini webinar. And so she signed up, and she’s like, I really just want to run, you know, a, you know, a one woman band, right? I just, I just want to keep it low key, just, you know, just me doing my thing and get a steady stream of clients coming in. So she followed, you know, follow the methodology. And within the first couple of months was doing, you know, $30,000 a month and she sent me this, this, this message one day, she’s like, Hey, you know, I just wanted to say huge thanks to you guys. This is a big game changer for me. My dad never told you this in the past, but like, I was going through some rough stages in my life when I wanted to reinvent myself. And now here I am sitting by the pool, or she say it’s, it’s in the book, but she, I think she said she was coaching her clients in her underwear or something. Like it was just really funny. Like, she’s relaxing, you know, living in California, like, you know, coaching your clients and your Inner Inner underwear, I’m like, okay, cool. Like, you know, whatever floats your boat is. It’s up to you. But you know, it’s, that’s the beauty of one of, you know, running these types of businesses, particularly in the education space, I work, you know, I help anyone who sells with appointments, the vast majority of my audiences, you know, coaching programs, you know, high ticket offers, you know, high ticket courses, you name it. But, you know, you get to do that when, you know, if you’re in this in this niche, it’s, it’s a wild niche, you know, it really is it’s, it’s a great niche to be a part of, nobody really knows it exists. I mean, I mean, I walk around town, I ran this event for military veterans last week for the Fourth of July. And so I bought out a car, a coffee house for anyone who served active or former or retired. And I bought out a cup of coffee house or four days over the Fourth of July weekend. So if you served you can go in there get anything you want it right. And so it made the front page of the paper, we got media coverage was really, really cool. And a lot people don’t like Well, so what do you do? Like, I just have to tell them I run a marketing agency because anytime I go further down the rabbit hole, they’re like, what’s a high ticket course? What’s the weather are like, like, don’t worry about it. Like it’s, it’s this niche that nobody really understands. And but it’s great. I love our I love the world we live in

Jeremy Weisz  43:11

Joel there’s so much more we go into but I want to encourage everyone check out your podcast, go to Check out checkout High Ticket Courses. The book on Amazon and Joe. I want to be the first one you know, thank you so much. All right.

Joel Erway  43:28

Thanks for your time, man. It’s been a blast.