Jeremy Weisz 3:56
show to the podcast.
Jess Begen Galica 3:59
Yeah, so the Reclaim Your Career podcast, which we’ll be launching over the next month.
Jeremy Weisz 4:05
Check it out. By the time you hear this is probably already out. So absolutely. I’m also I want to give a shout out to the reason we met was Henry Middlemen. Right? That’s right.
Jess Begen Galica 4:17
Yeah. So yeah, Henry works with a lot of great a great leaders. And yeah, we’ve worked together, so was happy to get connected through him.
Jeremy Weisz 4:25
You know, one thing that sticks out on this topic, and we were chatting a little bit before we hit record in is guilt. Okay, there’s a lot of guilt. You know, my wife is a business owner too. And I feel like there’s mom guilt. There’s also degrees of guilt. So I’d love for you to talk about guilt. And this is also talked about in your book.
Jess Begen Galica 4:47
Yeah, you know, I was sort of surprised that guilt was such a big part of so many women’s stories, when they were thinking about making changes or reinventing their career. And I think that guilt comes up for A couple of reasons. The first is that I work with primarily high performing women who have been really successful in their careers. And so when you’ve reached a certain level of success, both in terms of income and prestige, and especially if you’ve reached that success coming from, you know, a different place in your background, right? If you’ve sort of gone from here to here, anytime you’re questioning where you’re at, there’s this sense of guilt, both financial guilt of Well, how could I leave a job that has this stable income? When I know I’m really lucky to have this kind of stability? There’s that kind of comparative or socio economic guilt, right? That you might be saying, Gosh, my parents would have, you know, killed to have a job like this, how can I possibly complain about the work that I’m doing? And so women really struggle, I think, with giving themselves permission to want something more or to want something different, even if you know, every fiber in their being is shouting that you know, this, isn’t it when it comes to their career. And then certainly, if you add on the layer of motherhood, which, you know, for many women in mid and late career, they’ve made the choice to become mothers. I think that just amplifies the guilt. Even more, I think moms, especially in the US are conditioned to always be thinking about others and taking care of others and sacrificing for others. So the idea of finally investing in yourself, putting yourself front and center and making decisions without compromise, that can be a really uncomfortable space for working women and working moms who haven’t been conditioned to operate in that way.
Jeremy Weisz 6:42
Yeah, it’s a real thing. And I think when you talk about it, it’s been cool to hear about it. It’s it’s, I imagine somewhat therapeutic for people because they realize they’re not alone. And it’s, I don’t know, use the word normal.
Jess Begen Galica 6:58
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, when I, the whole beginning of this work, for me was really my own personal story of feeling exactly like what I described, and you described, and I remember thinking, you know, what’s wrong with me, right? Am I broken? When it comes to my career? Why can’t I just find a job that really clicks. And when I started thinking about researching and digging into this topic more, I just put out a casual ask to people in my network, hey, do you know any women who are thinking about some of these same things are feeling the same emotions that I am. And I was inundated with people to talk to, it felt like every single woman had a story that was very similar to mine. And that, of course, made me more interested in the topic, because I thought, well, there’s something really big here, and a lot of women would benefit from this. But second, yeah, it was a little bit therapeutic, like you’re describing to think, Hmm, you know, if so many women who I look at and admire who I believe are smart, and talented and hard working, if they are also feeling this way. And having these challenges. This is not a problem about me, this is a problem about broader systems, brought our policies, broader ways of working and expectations that we have for women. And there’s probably good reason that this is not working for so many women who are in corporate America. So I agree with you. It’s a pervasive, I don’t want to say the word problem, you know, because it’s not a women’s problem. But it’s a pervasive, pervasive experience among women, and usually has less to do with the individual woman and more to do with the systems and supports around her.
Jeremy Weisz 8:34
Just you know, when you started this journey of the book, you had this notion that you will be discovering certain things. But what you actually discovered was some of the a lot of the emotional components. So talk about when you first started what you thought you were going to get out of the discovery process of the book, and then what ended up happening?
Jess Begen Galica 8:59
Yeah, so when I started, I was focused on my career and my, my problems, so to speak, right? I was thinking, Oh, I think maybe I’ll make a career change for myself. And so I went into these conversations, thinking, well, I’ll talk to a few women, and they’ll give me you know, the three tips or tricks to do to figure this problem out and solve it right, I’ll come up with my little checklist. And I’m generally a pretty type a person. So I love a good checklist. And I thought, I’ll really find these tactical, pragmatic things that if I do X, Y, and Z, it will lead me to, you know, this this perfect path. And what I was really surprised by is that when women shared their stories of making changes, or reinventing their career or getting really strategic about their career trajectories that had absolutely nothing to do with the tactical or the pragmatic. The conversations when I let them be open and natural, we’re all about the emotional parts of those decisions. So things like guilt, right? The guilt that held them back for so long. For things like fear around failure. And also women were talking about, once they did make these change, they were talking about the benefits in very emotional terms, right, this sense of deeper engagement in their work, a sense of relief and joy that they’d finally found something that felt purposeful and meaningful. And so I was really surprised. And it made me think that, okay, I went in thinking I’d come up with this tactical checklist. But really, I think women are incredible at checking off checklists, they are incredible at executing, I think, where women need more support is around the emotional things that go into navigating your career and making big decisions.
Jeremy Weisz 10:44
You know, we were saying how career changes are universal, and almost the new norm? What did you mean by that?
Jess Begen Galica 10:56
Totally. Yeah. I mean, we used to think of careers, as you know, the ladder climbing a ladder, right was the classic analogy, it sort of feels like a dinosaur. At this point, the career economy has just evolved so much, that the notion of your career being like a ladder, very stable, predictable, linear is, you know, not true for virtually anyone. There’s lots of new analogies that have emerged. But my favorite one is that I think careers are like a river. And they’re like a river in the sense that there’s going to be twists and turns, your career also is going to be influenced and impacted by the environment around you, the course of rivers actually can change. And you’ll never know everything that’s around the corner. And there’s probably going to be some rocks and some currents and some things along the way, right. And so I think that the old view was that women climb the ladder, they hopefully punch through the glass ceiling and keep climbing. But today, it’s just a much wind year adventure. And I think that requires that women have new tools, new strategies, new intention and investment when they’re navigating their careers, because it’s more complicated today. And of course, in a global pandemic, it’s only become more complicated.
Jeremy Weisz 12:18
You know, I love to hear, I love that analogy. Because with the river and one of the most important things I’ve done in my life, whether it’s health or business or whatever, is sought out and had a mentor and coach, right. And so when you are navigating River, my cousin is actually a river rafting guide, or was in Tennessee, you need a guide. And you could have class one, class two, class three, class four, class five rapids. And if you even in the same, you know, area, there’s a, you can go this route, and it’s a class two, or you can go this route is a class five, and basically, there’s a 90% chance of falling out of the boat. And he would ask, Hey, do you guys want to take a swim? Because if we go here, there’s probably a 90% chance to take a swim. I’m like, Nah, I don’t want to take a swim. I don’t want to get in the cold water, and be down. So he’s like, Okay, we’ll go this way, we’ll navigate this way. Right. And if I were in the boat alone, I would just go wherever I take me. So I would love to hear what is your what do you see your role as that guide and that coach? For women?
Jess Begen Galica 13:22
Yeah, I think the power of coaching I feel so strongly about and it’s for two reasons. The first is that I think that women don’t always look at their careers, from an investment point of view. And so I say to women, your career is likely the biggest financial asset of your life, full stop, when you think about the income, right, that you’re generating over your lifetime. And so, when you think about a financial asset, it’s kind of intuitive for people that you’re going to feed that asset, you’re going to invest in it, you’re going to try to really maximize the return that you’ll get on that financial asset. And I want women to start having that mindset when it comes to their career. This is something that you want to get support on, you want to invest in, and you are going to see that real return when you fuel this biggest financial asset of your life, your career. So I love that mindset for women shifting to my career is something to grow and invest in unapologetically. And then the value of coaching itself beyond you know that that actual true financial return, I believe, is pretty simple. It’s having a thought partner to guide you through careers, which we just talked about are complex, right? I mean, you’re falling out of a boat was was the analogy. And it’s also accountability. So the power of working with a coach and having a time every week or every other week where you’re showing up to think about your career to solve problems that you’re facing in your office. Or to think about where you want to go next. That alone on that time slot on your calendar alone is unbelievably impactful. And I can’t tell you the number of people who say, they come to one coaching session, right, and they say, oh my gosh, that was so productive. I talked about things that I haven’t thought about in 15 years, or, you know, I already am seeing these new insights and connecting the dots. So it’s really amazing what having a thought partner in your corner and having accountability can do for your sense of competence in your career, your sense of ease and your career. And also that acceleration of your career to reach new opportunities, and new financial rewards as well.
Jeremy Weisz 15:38
In just for some really good advice that you give, which we’ll get to in a second, but who what are the type of people who are ideal people to work with you?
Jess Begen Galica 15:50
Yeah, so I work primarily with women who are in corporate roles. And they’re, you know, high performing women who are at kind of mid late stage career, right. So they’ve, they’ve been in their career, typically for over a decade. And usually, they’re coming with one of two things. One is they’re looking to redirect. So they’re looking to reinvent their career in some way, whether that’s changing an industry reinventing is something totally different, or starting their own business, I see frequently. So they’re kind of look, they’re, they’re at this pivot point, right. And they know that they need to proceed with a lot of thought and a lot of support. Because this is a really big decision, especially for women who are established in their careers, when you’re thinking about making a change, you don’t want to do it lightly, you really, this really is a critical time to invest in do it, right. And then the second type of woman who I work with is more around kind of turbocharging where she is. So given that I have a consulting and a strategy background, I think that’s unique from a coaching perspective, because I’m able to get a little more hands on and tactical with clients than a typical coach. So there are some women who just need more of executive coaching support, right? They’re having to communicate to their C level executive team put really impactful presentations together, they need to think strategically about how they’re communicating how they’re pitching, investment and business ideas within their organization. So I also support women in that way, who, you know, almost like having you know, how the biggest companies in the world hire Bain as their consultants. It’s like, you know, the best female leaders in corporate America hiring me as their individual personal consultant.
Jeremy Weisz 17:28
And we’ll get your advice. But talking about Bain and apple and some of the companies we’ve worked with, I’d love to hear a lesson that you learned, whether it’s with Bain, Apple or another company, large company,
Jess Begen Galica 17:44
oh, a lesson? I mean, I’ve learned so many lessons throughout my career. Let me think where to take that? Or did you have something in mind a type of lesson?
Jeremy Weisz 17:54
No, just what stuck out? I mean, like a lot of people. You know, we learned from, like you said, working with a lot of high level companies through Bain. So I don’t know if there was maybe a lesson learned from a certain leader there, or just from some of the work that you were doing at the company.
Jess Begen Galica 18:14
Yeah. So I think at the corporate level, right, when I’m thinking about what I’ve learned in terms of accompany, I think the biggest thing for me is focus. Right. So when you think about corporate strategy, I think if I had to define strategy in one way, its focus, it’s what are the choices you’re making, for what you’re focusing on? And therefore what are you not focusing on? And so I see that a lot, right? In other companies, or even with women who are starting their own small businesses, there’s often enthusiasm and excitement to do so many things. It’s great to have that energy. But in order to have success and to actually execute on it, I think, focus and discipline around what you are doing. But what you are also not doing is very, very important. And I think sometimes for women that can be challenging, because women are not always great at saying no, right, we’ve often been conditioned to be sort of pleasers, and we want to say yes to everything. But the power of focus. And the power of knowing what you’re not doing is probably the most important lesson I think I take away from my experience working in companies and also with clients during my consulting.
Jeremy Weisz 19:24
Is there anything that you noticed, just as an observer of how either Bain or Apple ran their company as an observation to how you’ll maybe run it or take it into your business?
Jess Begen Galica 19:39
Yes, I think that one fantastic thing that I’ll take away from Bain is how people invested Bain is as an organization. Now, Bane is unique in that its product is its people, right? It is sending consultants out to the biggest companies and your highest paying client In the world, and it’s the people are the product, right? That is the intellectual capital. And so it makes a lot of sense that Bain is such an employee and people oriented company. But I will always extrapolate that into any industry, I think a lot of companies under invest in developing, retaining, growing their talent. And at the end of the day, I think even if you have the most fantastic product, it is people who are running your business. And so that’s a lesson definitely that being taught me and one that regardless of industry, I would recommend and bring with me, what had
Jeremy Weisz 20:38
been do, what did you see them do? Do they have different training programs? Did they assign people coaches within the organization? What did they do to help develop people?
Jess Begen Galica 20:49
Yeah, there’s a lot, I think that two things come to mind is that there is a very structured program around expectations for employees, and also feedback. So there’s very little ambiguity around what you should be doing to be successful in your role. I actually found Bain to be way more entrepreneurial than I expected. So it’s not that people are cogs in the wheel, right, you have a lot of freedom and creativity and sort of entrepreneurial spirit to, you know, do the work in your own way. But this, there’s this overarching structure of what is expected of you really at every stage in your career. And then there’s a very consistent and deep feedback mechanism to make sure that you know, how you’re tracking and how you’re progressing along that. So I think that’s probably the one that stands out the most. And then there certainly are more career development programs. And I know that, you know, Bain is integrating that even more so that employees at all stages of the organization, you know, not just when they’re thinking about moving on, but at all stages have the support of a career or executive coach.
Jeremy Weisz 22:07
Just that’s a really interesting topic, feedback mechanism. You know, I mean, that’s, you know, probably people don’t even realize when they have you as a coach, that is also a version of a feedback mechanism. I’d love to learn a little bit more about what, when you think of that, with Bain, or whatever company, what does that look like? Because I know that some of the organizations I talk to, they don’t have this set feedback mechanism, like you’re talking about?
Jess Begen Galica 22:39
Yeah, well, I think that there’s the two parts to it, right, there’s the expectation setting. And so that’s kind of, you know, very traditional talent development, right, coming up with the skills that are required at different positions. And then in terms of the feedback, I think that there’s probably two components that make Bain unique or sort of best in class, I would say, and one is that you are getting feedback consistently and from a lot of people. So the way that a consulting firm is structured, you’re working on client projects that might last two or three months, it could be longer. But you’re you’re working with a lot of different team members, and a lot of different managers throughout your, your time at the company. And you are always getting feedback from whoever you’re working with. That’s, you know, bottom up when you’re managing, and that’s, of course, top down from whoever is managing you. And I think one of the benefits of the nature of consulting is that, you know, you’re not relying on feedback from the same people over and over again, where it might get stale, or you might see the same notes. So there might even be bias in that feedback, right? I mean, we’ve all had a boss who is tough and are terrible. And you think, Well, I don’t care what they’re saying, right? But the nature of consulting is that you get a lot of reps of feedback and different points of view. And I think what you find that is that the noise that you get in feedback starts to quiet down, because you have enough, you know, you have a big enough end, right, you’ve got enough samples to start to really understand. Okay, interesting, I really can see the commonalities, the threads here. And that’s very cool. Because it becomes a way that very explicitly reflects to you what your strengths are that others are noticing, and what your weaknesses are. So I think it’s that that consistency, and that diversity of feedback that you get that makes it a very interesting model.
Jeremy Weisz 24:33
You mentioned feedback, and this kind of goes into, we’re chatting before we hit record about advice, and there’s a common thread of advice that you give, which is, you know, more than you think.
Jess Begen Galica 24:50
Yeah, yeah. Um, I get this. I get this scenario a lot with women who come and say, you know, where I’m at in my career. I know, you know, deep down, I know that it’s not it, right? I’m not there, there’s something else. But I have no idea what that something else is. And the feedback that I give to women is that, you know, more than you think. And I think that can be frustrating for a lot of women at first because they say, Well, you know, no, I don’t I just told you, right. And, you know, it’s not necessarily an easy thing to solve. But what really happens is that when women can finally sit down can finally reflect, often with the support of a coach, they’re able to break down some of the narratives that they’ve built over their career, about what they want, and what success looks like, all these things that have come externally. And they’re able to start to tease out some of these internal truths, these things that they’ve always known. I mean, literally, they know things, right. Like, they notice things about themselves, since they were, you know, four years old or five years old, right? I always love to read and write, for example, but all my life, I thought, well, I could never be a writer, right? Who, who ends up being a writer, and you start to return to these truths that you’ve always always known. But you’ve learned to just suppress, or deprioritize, relative to the other external things. And, you know, I worked with a client recently who’s a former competitive athlete, and same kind of thing, you know, she didn’t have certainty about where she wanted to go next. And, you know, I challenged her with, you know, I think you know, more than you think. And what you find is that when you take some time to reflect and answer tough questions from a coach, right, you start to connect the dots and ways that maybe you formerly didn’t. And so all of a sudden, for the first time, in her kind of adult career, this woman was connecting the dots between horses, her former competitive athlete, kind of childhood, really, where she was in an environment where every single decision was made for her, you know, training programs structured, extremely structured, right? training programs, extremely intense, like, what you’re eating what you’re doing every day. And she finally was starting to see that oh, wow, that has an impact on how now is an adult, you know, decades later, I view my decision making abilities in my career, and why maybe I don’t see the competence are my capability in making sound decisions, and why I continually look to others to make these decisions for me, when really, you know, I’m only going to get to the best decision when I make it for myself.
Jeremy Weisz 27:37
A lot of times just this decision, can feel, maybe there’s a pre preconceived notion that it’s going to be this huge, dramatic event. All right, so what do you tell people? It seems scary, it seems like it’s gonna be this dramatic thing.
Jess Begen Galica 27:57
Yeah, I think this idea of a career change or pointing your career in a new direction being this dramatic thing. It’s, it’s a big shift. But it’s not this dramatic leap that you go into work on a Friday, you know, you quit your job. And on Monday, you’re a new person, right? It just doesn’t work that way. But I think it’s, you know, we’ve got these funds or Hollywood stories that look like that, or you hear these outliers that are these very interesting, you know, things that get written up. But the reality is that among, you know, the dozens of women who I interviewed in depth for my book, and the you know, even more than 100, more who I studied from afar. In almost in the vast majority of cases, these career transitions are slow, honestly, they’re extremely thoughtful. They’re extremely well planned out. They’re extremely disciplined. And they’re usually executed over years, in most cases, right, the full kind of transition. And so, on the one hand, that might feel scary to women in a different way, like, oh, my gosh, you know, I can’t just clap my hands and have everything fixed overnight. But I actually think that acknowledging this long term reality of most career shifts is comforting for most women, because most people are not people that can, you know, make spontaneous, you know, over the weekend decisions to totally transform their lives. There are people who want to take these baby steps and want to be able to test things out. So that’s definitely the more common reality. It’s also the more strategic and probably smart way to do it in most cases. And I think acknowledging that actually invites and opens up the possibility for more women to make a change and go after this thing that they want. Because it’s not so much in their panic zone. It’s now you know, a little stretch here and there to get them where they want to go.
Jeremy Weisz 29:54
Just what does a small test look like? If someone’s like, Oh, I’m just going to inch too. Words this major life changing goal, potentially, what does a small test look like? It’d be an example.
Jess Begen Galica 30:08
Small, you know, testing and learning iterating is so, so important. I advocate for it with every client I work with, it looks different, depending on what you’re trying to figure out. Right. But, you know, I’ll have some people that are thinking about starting their own business, right? They say, Well, I’m in, you know, corporate marketing, I’m thinking about launching my own consulting firm working with a number of brands. And, you know, I urge people to do that, like, one, talk to people who have done it to really understand what what goes into it. But then the second is, you know, is there any way that you can test this out? Right? Can you do this as a side hustle? Can you you know, I don’t know, can you help a friend who’s launching her small business to do some marketing work for fun for five hours? How does it feel to you? Is it engaging and energetic? Or are you finding that, oh, wow, there’s also all this administrative stuff that I didn’t think about that is now creating this huge headache for me. So, you know, any way that you can, you know, side hustle, test it out, you know, even if it’s in like an unofficial way, is hugely, hugely valuable. So that’s just an example for a small business owner. But you can extrapolate that to any other industry, the ability to really test it, and I think, see if you’re getting the energy out of it that you expected, or if you’re encountering encountering headaches that you hadn’t anticipated, is a really helpful signal to follow.
Jeremy Weisz 31:32
Yeah, I love that. I think you’ll take through that process, where it’s like, there’s a broad, there’s a discovery process, and there’s almost like a research process. And then there’s a testing process, and then it just iterates from there. Jess I want I have one last question. Before I ask it, I want to just point people towards your website to learn more, and your podcasts and your book and it can all be found at Reclaimyourcareer.co Are there any other places online we should point people towards? Or is that the best place?
Jess Begen Galica 32:03
Yeah, the website has all of the resources you can get you to check out my coaching, check out my speaking and you can also connect with me on LinkedIn Jess Begen Galica love to connect and share content on LinkedIn weekly as well.
Jeremy Weisz 32:17
Last question, Jess, you know, we always we all stand on the shoulders of giants, and who are some of the women leaders you respect and admire and have learned from whether it’s, you know, personally or afar?
Jess Begen Galica 32:32
There are so many right now I feel like there are you know, women are having a moment right now. And I think there are incredible thought leaders who are adding such important messages to the conversation. So gosh, I It’s hard to pick one I’m gonna I’m gonna name drop a few. I think the first one is Eve Rodsky. I love her work. She’s the author of Fair Play, and the author of Unicorn Space, all about women finding and all people finding more equity when it comes to labor inside the home, and pursuing more creative interests to also Reshma Saujani, who is the author of Pay Up, who is really challenging corporate America to change its systems, its processes, its expectations, its entire way of being in order to allow women to succeed and thrive and create equity in the workplace. And then the third and my last would be Rachel Rodgers, who is the author of We Should All Be Millionaires. And really, it’s a book for women and people of color, and I love how she is unapologetic about the fact that women should be going after more financial security and more wealth in their life. So those are three of my faves Eve Rodsky, Reshma Saujani and Rachel Rodgers.
Jeremy Weisz 33:48
Just only the first one to thank you. Thank you. Check out reclaimyourcareer.co checkout in Inspired Insider, check out Rise25 Thanks, Jess. Thanks, everyone.
