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Jeremy Weisz  15:44 

Was it actually outside?

Erik Rubadeau  15:46 

Yep. But it wasn’t really taking off for the organization. And so, we had a number of internal meetings just talking around, what do we do with this? You know, everybody kind of loved the concept, but couldn’t quite figure out what to do with it. And coming to House International is interesting. They’re based, right? You know, downtown Manhattan, and they have so many powerful relationships, high executive CEOs, like, these, just these really strong relationships. And we started exploring this idea. Like, do you think executives would do this, right? Like, because the whole point is, we need to raise money, and high school students are great, but like, they’re raising 40 bucks at a time, right? What if we could get CEOs to do this? And so, yeah, we put it together, we pitched it, we took it live.

The first year, we raised about think, just shy of half a million dollars in the first year, about 20, 30 CEOs to kind of come out and sleep in a cardboard box in the parking lot of the shelter downtown Manhattan, and that was the beginning of that for the next four or five years, that was a cornerstone piece of work for us and our agency as we grew, because that program blew up. I think we were raising 26 million a year by the time, like, we went off and did other things, and they went another way. So, like, it was a really cool program to be part of, especially from that kind of ground up, like, it was just myself and Carla Chadwick at the time at the organization, who was really kind of driving that boat, and a few other people at the organization, and it was just, it just started to snowball. And then I was like, Oh, okay. Then it was like, No, it was in other cities.

And we had it running, you know. Then we had different iterations of it, we had. So it’s really cool to see something like that and be part of something like that that really goes kind of meteoric. Because, for every sleep out, for every Ice Bucket Challenge, there’s organizations throwing stuff at the wall, and it is just not sticking, you know. So it’s really cool to be part of something that really blows up like that.

Jeremy Weisz  17:38 

Well, what’s interesting Eric about is it’s like, almost like a just shift of who’s doing it, like the simple, it’s like the same concept, but like high school students and CEOs, and that one shift makes all the difference in the world. You remember some of the experience shares and takeaways that some of these people, CEOs had?

Erik Rubadeau  18:05 

Yeah, I mean, it’s really interesting to listen to their stories. And, you know, like they’re spending, they’re not just sleeping out. They’re spending the whole, you know, they’re doing a real experience, right? They’re spending the evening at the shelter. They’re listening to kids talk about, how they ended up there. You know what Covenant House means to them. And it’s really interesting to hear, to see, to see the change, right? To see and to watch the change happening in people’s minds as they go from thinking like, oh yeah, these kids are they just ended up here because they made bad decisions. It’s like, no, they ended up here because life was unfair to them in a lot of ways. And they like, just didn’t have, they didn’t have the choice.

A lot of these decisions were made for them, and, you know, ended up where they ended up. So, you know, I think it was, it’s really interesting to see, organ like, to see how an organization and experience like that can really change. And it was cool because, year over year, you’d see these CEOs coming back and doing it, and bringing their friends. And it was really neat to see kind of how it grew, both in locations, but also just in the actual like, I think, some years they were, for air quotes selling out, right? Like there was no more space to accomplish without, while still keeping the experience authentic. So I think that was really, it was really cool to kind of be part of that, and to witness that change in opinion, if you will.

Jeremy Weisz  19:22 

I feel like there should be, like, some reality show where they do a swap, like, for a week, like, these people get to stay in their Manhattan apartment, yeah, and then they have to stay on the street. That’d be wild. And I was like, I’m not leaving your apartment. This is nice here. Yeah, you haven’t.

Erik Rubadeau  19:38 

Pretty good. I’m probably not gonna leave.

Jeremy Weisz  19:40 

No, that’s pretty, thank you for sharing that. So people want to check out the work that’s being done. They just go to Covenant House International.

Erik Rubadeau  19:48 

Yeah, the Covenant House Sleep Out. Yeah, I think it’s in a number of cities and all across the US and Canada now. So that’s really great. It’s a great fundraiser for that organization.

Jeremy Weisz  19:57 

We get to see, you start off as just you, then you rope your wife into this, okay, in a good way. What were some of the first key hires along the way that you look back? Oh, my God, we really needed that. Maybe we should have done it two years prior.

Erik Rubadeau  20:14 

Yeah, yeah, the first hire we really, it’s funny, like, the first hire we made, she’s still with us, and we hired, what we knew we needed was a little bit of everything. So she had a bit of design, she had a little bit of like code, but mostly she was just open to, you know, seeing what happened, you know. And at that stage of an organization, of an agency, you just need that multiple hat type person, right. So she was kind of an extension of the work I was doing, which I think just gave me a little bit more space and the highway made after that was a developer, because we were doing so much work in the in the code, and I was a self-taught developer, so I was good to a point. But bringing Kevin on at the time was, you know, really upped our game. We became, we could build the custom things. We could really, you know, kind of solution, my brain is a bit of a problem solver, if you will.

I learned last year that I’m something called a chaos pilot, apparently. But I tend to, I tend to really, there’s no as far as I’m concerned, there’s always a way and having access to someone who is willing to, like with Kevin as an example, to just build my crazy ideas, if you will, like, hey, we, you know, it would be amazing if we could make something do this, for this organization. So that was pretty, pretty pivotal, in a way. And then after that, the next big hire was, we had a couple more people join the team, but it was, it’s probably Matt Barr, who’s our Director of Operations. He is the ying to my Yang, if you will. People sometimes get both of us on the phone and go, How do you guys even work together? Because, like, He’s so calm and organized, loves to establish process and, you know, all those things. And I am the inverse of that. I am kind of accidentally or by intention, running around, lighting fires all over the place.

But he operationalizes the things that come out of my head in a way that I never could right? So, one of the things I remember reading early on was, hiring for your weaknesses, right? Like, don’t try to replace people with the things you’re already good at. Hire people to fill in the gaps that you know are holding you back. And that was definitely one of those people, and still is, absolutely and so, yeah, he joined when we were about five or six people, and has really been through the transition with us as we kind of grew up to where we are right now.

Jeremy Weisz  22:52 

Yeah, Erik, reminds me I had Mark Winters on talking about Rocketfuel. He wrote with Gino Wickman, and they talk just about the visionary and integrator, and that creates the Rocketfuel, right? You need the person I use, like the visionary. I’m just like, what if we could do this? And you also need the person who’s going to put all the proper operations and systems behind it. So, totally get it. With that, what would you if someone’s like, you know what? Erik, I need a director of reparations. I need someone like that. What are some of the attributes looking back that you would say, okay, here’s what I’m looking for. If someone’s like, yeah, I want to hire that position?

Erik Rubadeau  23:41 

Yeah, I mean, it’s such a critical position from my perspective, especially for me, because it’s such a weakness of mine, like hiring for that role was so critical. And when I think about the attributes it is, it is someone who is willing to hear you’re crazy, right? And actually say, like, not dismiss it, like, it’s not that, Matt challenges me and all kinds of things, and that’s really healthy. But you know, he’s willing to roll with a lot of my crazy and say, okay, well, if you can explain to me what that process would look like, what the outcomes are, I will try to operationalize it, you know. So someone who has that, that translating mind, that can take the sort of big, hairy, loose ideas and, you know, probe the questions at me so that he can find, where are the holes, where are the things we have to be thinking about,  who’s going to do this work, what’s the profitability of this work, all these kind of things, right? So, yeah, it’s very much someone who’s willing to kind of, you know, and has the skill set to do that translation, but they have to want to be organized.

They have to want to, kind of oversee, the running, if you will, of the organization. And that’s really the role that meta stepped up into overtime, has gone from just, kind of being kind of a, you know, super project manager, to creating our project management team, to really overseeing how the business runs operationally. So I think I probably got dumb lucky in some ways, I kind of knew what I was looking for, and Matt actually had come out of the same agency that I had been at before taking a year off and was traveling, and somebody sort of said, oh, well, Matt’s back, and I caught him just before he had accepted another job. Actually, I think he might have accepted another job at the moment I hit him. But I think it is that, it is that organization, the organizational skills, but it’s also there, like it’s the timeliness, it’s the ability to understand how all of these pieces work. Because as an agency grows and gets more complicated, they have to be, Matt’s role is to actually see everything that’s going on and be able to say, okay, we’re under capacity here.

Yes, we can take that project on. No, we can’t take that project on. Hey, we don’t have the people in the month of March to do the thing that you want to sell, right, or the organization you want to work with. So, it’s that reality. And he’s been through a lot with us as we’ve grown.

Jeremy Weisz  26:07 

I want to Erik, we talked about niche and how you got in the niche. We talked about hires and a little bit of evolution of that. I want to talk about the services side and the evolution of the services and when I look at your page, you mean you do a lot of different things. I know you started with the Covenant House International. What did kind of evolution of what you offer as an agency look like?

Erik Rubadeau  26:33 

Yeah, I mean, I think people are sometimes surprised to hear the breadth of what we do. Because I think traditionally, an agency might hyper focus in on one thing, or kind of do everything, and we were somewhere in the middle. I think everything that we have starts from that kind of expertise in the technologies, right? Our sector, the nonprofit sector, has a bunch of kind of nonprofit technologies that are kind of unique to our space. And over time, the sales forces and some of these other tools are coming in as well. But certainly early on, it was all very proprietary to the sector technologies. And we spent a lot of time getting great at those technologies, really understanding how to push them, training our team on them. Because as you sort of alluded to earlier, nonprofit organizations are usually strapped for the time. You know, everybody’s running at 120% so, it’s rare that someone has the time to say, hey, you know, I’m really gonna spend the next two weeks and learn this software inside out so we can maximize its use. So that’s really where everything started for us.

Was kind of that underpinning of expertise in technology. But as we rolled these technologies out to organizations, as we started kind of training and handing the, our motto was very much, teach the organization to fish right, implement the new technology, train the people that are going to be using it. We started to see these other issues. So I’ve always been fascinated by marketing, and really the track, ability of marketing, you know, the analytics, the sort of like making decisions and testing things to see how people respond to sort of human psychology of it. And so that marketing and fundraising side, which is kind of, wraps around the work that we do. As we implemented these technologies, we started to just see that organizations needed support in this space. So we started supporting with campaigns. We started supporting with email marketing, things that were adjacent to the work that we were doing, certainly, because it was just the next level, right?

We were experts on the platforms. Of course, we can set up and send your email, we can, you know, load your ads, that kind of stuff. So we’ve learned a lot of stuff along the way. And I should, should say that my wife came from the for profit agency side and then into the nonprofit space, but from a media buying perspective. So she kind of had that angle already, so it was just sort of natural for us to expand into that space. From there, we expanded into the support services work that we do, which is very much about helping organizations with capacity enhancement. It’s this sort of, hey, we’ve lost this person, or we need the continuity, or want the continuity to be able to manage our tools and our digital universe, regardless of who’s in the chair, right? So, we worked with organizations for years. Some of our longest-standing relationships are support service relationships where, we support the organization. You know, they might only need half a developer and a little bit of a designer and a little bit of strategy here and there, because they’ve got people internally that can, for the most part, make a lot of stuff home, but they can lean on us for things that they don’t have, and if that person leaves, well, we have the knowledge of the way the organization works.

We, you know, we have logins to their tools. We can keep the trains running, so to speak, while they hire. Because it’s very rare that there’s actually crossover in the nonprofit sector someone leaves, and then there’s usually three to six months of gap in that role, and then that person has to train up. So, you know. You can spend a year. You can lose a year when a person leaves the organization to just forward momentum. So we can provide that stability for that forward momentum, and then even be part of the, you know, the hiring process, reviewing job descriptions and saying, Yeah, this is kind of the person you need. And then being part of their train up when they join the organization. Then we go back to supporting that person in their day to day, and then, yeah, all of that is wrapped in our strategy work.

Jeremy Weisz  30:25 

So what’s an example where, because you mentioned, we help the technology side, and make their lives easier? What would be a good example of that with one of the organizations you worked with?

Erik Rubadeau  30:41 

Yeah, I mean, there’s probably a lot of examples, but I can think of the Center for Addiction and Mental Health in Toronto, Kim H as an organization we worked with for a number of years. They have a product, Blackboard, product called Luminate Online, and they didn’t really feel like they were getting the most out of it. They just didn’t have the, they had people internally that had set it up. They’ve been working with another agency. But as we came into working with them, we just saw a lot of opportunity ways that we could be streamlining things. Some of these tools are really flexible in terms of how they can be set up. And so you can see the way that something gets set up, can really impact the way that you have to continue to use it. So we worked with that organization on changing a bunch of different processes to just streamline the way they use the tool, similar to sick kids. Sick Kids had team raiser, which is a peer-to-peer software for like the run, walk, ride, kind of the engine behind that, and we worked with them for a year just to sort of facilitate internal change around what is it that they need to do what they’re trying to do.

And is this the right tool for them? And spend a lot of time just getting everybody bought into the direction, and then help them on board with the technology, and really change the way that they’re ultimately doing their peer-to-peer events, and have helped them with, you know, implement their do it yourself, fundraisers, their e-commerce, such as, which I think is what we’re looking at here, and again, all on the same platform, technology that they’d already purchased, but just didn’t have the expertise In house to know what was possible. So we work with them over the course of a couple of years, to really just, you know, and still, do you know here and there as things come up. So, a lot of these organizations buy technology, and I don’t think this is anyone’s particular fault, but I don’t think organizations are, they don’t have the internal expertise a lot of the times to know what they’re buying and how that fits their needs. This might be the first time anyone in that organization has ever bought software, right?

So, and you can bet your bottom dollar that every software company is putting forward their best, you know, pitch, right? So, they’re kind of, you know, choosing that, and then when the rubber hits the road, they realize that, you know, technology doesn’t really solve anything on its own. It’s about the people that you train and the people that, you know, buy into this. And they have to know how to use it and how that fits into their business processes and their workflows and all that kind of stuff. So, I think as we work with organizations, we get a chance to really break that apart and help them kind of rebuild the way that they work with technology. And that’s really a lot of fun.

Jeremy Weisz  33:31 

With sick kids in this instance, I’m curious, what’s the pain point they came to you with? I mean, are they saying, well, we just aren’t raising enough. Or are they saying we’re confused by the software? What are they saying to you? And then when you look under the hood, you’re like, oh, my God, you’re using, like, 1% of this. What are they coming to you with?

Erik Rubadeau  33:52 

Yeah. So, this example here. I mean, so an e-commerce site. So, there’s a number of different ways that organizations fundraise. Most organizations raise a lot of their money in the last kind of quarter of the year, and there’s a trend for organizations to have these kind of alternative they’re called the kind of, like an alternative gift catalog, but like, essentially an e-commerce catalog, but it’s just another way of donating. And sick kids really wanted to lean into that, and was already paying for the Luminate Online platform, which had that functionality baked into it. So, what they wanted to do is kind of say, hey, you know, we see this opportunity. We know we’ve got the software, but when we look at the software, we don’t know what to do. We don’t know how to configure it. It’s a blank white page when it loads, can you help us, you know, kind of bring this vision to life.

And so that’s, that’s what we did in that case. And so we’ve done, we did that a lot with organizations with organizations, they might have already bought the software. They, you know, they own it, but they’re not getting the most out of it, or they don’t know what’s possible, right? So they, you know, when you log into a piece of software, and if it’s quite powerful and you don’t know how to use it, it can become frustrating. And your natural instinct is to say, well, it’s the software’s problem, this software sucks. It doesn’t do it exactly. And the number of facilitations that we’ve run over the years where we’re like, okay, well, let’s take it all off the table, and let’s just say, like, what do you need, you know? And we go through that process and everybody lists out all the things they need and what they want, and then we put the software on the table and we say, Okay, well, this is what it does. And they go, oh, really, I didn’t know it could do all of these things, right? Because that’s just they didn’t have the expertise internally to be able to kind of evaluate the software properly.

And I mean, something I try to remind my team all the time is that, and when we’re engaging with clients, like, we do this stuff every day, right? Like, we’ll launch 10 websites a year. We’ll roll out customizations to 50 different organizations on 10 different software over the course of a year. Most average nonprofit professionals would do that once in their whole career, right? So it’s like we see things from a very different angle, and we have to remember that, like our clients don’t necessarily even know what’s possible. So you really have to have that patience and try to level, set and educate as we go.

Jeremy Weisz  36:06 

I love hearing some of these use cases, Erik, because I think it applies, I mean, it really applies to any business, not just nonprofits. In this situation, I was listening to a, there’s a Michael Senoff has hard to find seminars, and I was listening to someone who interview. He makes a million dollars a year at a fruit stand, right? So he’s like, how does a fruit stand of anything do it? But it was all the same principles and concepts of any business for that matter. And so I love hearing about this, and I would love for you. I know you worked with Habitat for Humanity, so if you want to talk a little bit about the work you did with them.

Erik Rubadeau  36:48 

Yeah, absolutely, yeah, we Habitat for Humanity again, had limited online at the time. I think they still do, and had reached out to us because we were assuming someone recommended them, so we’d started in a kind of a nascent relationship just supporting some other kind of back-end stuff. So that infrastructure piece, right? Like they had a couple of people working on the fundraising, and we were really just, helping set up donation forms and helping ship email and that kind of stuff. And as we got closer to the organization and spent more time with the team, there was just so much potential, so much opportunity. And they were doing great work, but there was just two of them, and they were running full speed, you know. So we started to talk about other things we could be doing, right?

We could be, like when you breaking down digital like e-commerce, for nonprofits, is actually, there’s so many metrics, but when you kind of focus in on the three key metrics, we call these kind of our Polaris metrics, it’s traffic, right? How many people are coming to your site, getting to your thing, it’s conversion rate, right? How many of those people are doing the thing you want them to do? And then, when we’re talking about fundraising, it’s average gift, right? Why does someone give $150 instead of $50 and so we started to look at all of these pieces across the organization, right? Like, where’s the traffic coming from? What are they doing? Could we be driving more traffic, right? So we started talk. We started supporting them and putting out paid media and supporting their email marketing and efforts. We became part of their strategy conversations for digital so over the course of four or five years, we really became this kind of key.

We had this really trusted relationship with the organization on everything digital, and we went through COVID with them, and saw so many pivots and wild things that were happening because as an organization, they had a lot of different fundraising vehicles, they have builds, obviously, right? Well, those stopped. They had, you know, overseas builds. Those stopped, corporate donations. Everything went kind of tight. So we were doing, coming up with a lot of these different unique ways of, kind of putting the organization out into the universe and connecting with individuals in a time when a lot of the other parts of the business were really, you know, either on pause or really suffering, and so it was really cool to have been in that place where we’d been doing the groundwork we kind of had, we had a humming email marketing file, we had a group of donors who really cared about the organization, and when we got into that tight space in COVID, was beautiful to see how those people responded, because we had put the infrastructure in place to build that audience and cultivate that relationship.

Jeremy Weisz  39:35 

What are some ways I love how you laid that out, kind of the traffic piece, and you look at all the things under that conversion rate piece, and then average gift or order value piece. What have you seen that’s worked throughout the years of I don’t there’s any examples on how people increase their average gift value.

Erik Rubadeau  39:55 

I mean, one of, there’s a few like, short and sweet ways. First off, it’s just pre-selecting the value, right? Like, if you pre-select 20 on a donation array, you’d be surprised. How many people give you a $20 gift, you know, if you pre-select 100 Well, you know, maybe that’s too rich for some people, but they’re not going to fall all the way to 20. So, there’s just little strategies like, you know, pre-selecting the average gift, highlighting it. But then also, there’s things like speaking to the power, right? Like, what is, the, sort of like the symbolic reference, right? Like, what does $150 actually do for the organization, right? Is it three meals? Is it medical kits, like one of those. And for some organizations, that’s really easy, to sort of quantify. And for others, it’s a lot more complicated. And so they have to get really creative about the how to, you know, how they quantify their work. But people really, they like that.

They like to understand the impact. And then more recently, you’re seeing things like, you know, product like, fundraise up has come to market last few years, they’re using things like, you know, AI in the background, looking at, postal code locations and trying to make, you know, predictions about people’s propensity to give and all that kind of stuff. So there’s a lot of things that are kind of bubbling up now that are brand new ways of thinking about the same problem. But ultimately, it’s about putting the right, you’ve been able to do this with some of the software for years. But it’s, it’s really about saying, hey, if I’ve given $2,000 to your organization, and in a gift previously, when you send me to a donation form from an email, don’t preload 20 bucks. I gave you a $2,000 gift, like dynamic gift arrays, again, using technology, and these things are baked into the tools like organizations have. It’s just that a lot of the times they don’t have the expertise or the time to sort of invest into getting the most out of it.

But if you can make a conditionalized offer to someone and say, hey, here’s 1500, 2000 and 2500 because they traditionally give you $2,000 that makes a lot more sense than offering them the standard 20, 50, 150, 200 right? And just like that, you’re personalizing the relationship, but you’re also maximizing your potential revenue.

Jeremy Weisz  42:14 

Yeah, I love what you said there about quantifying the work and helping them understand the impact. Again, that can apply to any business if you can actually explain what it’s going to do for them, obviously, it’s showing the value and the benefits instead of some of the features. So, Erik, first of all, thank you. I have one last question, but I do want to tell people, if you want to learn more, you can check out yeeboodigital.com obviously, if you’re watching the video, you’ve seen the website, it’s yeeboodigital.com to learn more. My last question, Erik is about just business mentors who’s helped you throughout your career on the business front, I know we all don’t get where we’re at without the help of others, where some of the and it could be colleagues as well, some people in the industry that have given you good advice and lessons throughout your career.

Erik Rubadeau  43:15 

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think funny enough, my dad, who would not say he’s contributed to this, but, you know, he was an entrepreneur growing up. I watched him build a number of businesses, both successful and some that plummeted. What did he do? And the thing that I took away from the way that he operated was it’s just, you know, like you can always make another dollar. That you have to try, you have to learn. But he, you know, he’s a Constant Learner. He’s someone who’s always, you know, he’s got his nose in the manual for whatever it’s kind of where, I guess, where I come from, I grew up with a basement full of computer parts, and he had arcade units and all this kind of stuff when I was a kid. Also ran a music store, and all these other things. And so I’ve watched him kind of just not be afraid to take that step, but also to put in the work to learn something.

And so, I think that although he’s never explicitly given me advice about how to run a business, I learned a lot from watching him, and I think that I’ve applied a lot of that, and then certainly, Matt is a great example. Matt and I’ve been through a lot as the business has grown, you know, we’ve learned to budget together. We’ve learned to forecast. We’ve hired a part-time CFO team that supported us over the years. So, Matt has been through a lot with me, and has certainly been a big part of what I’ve been able to do, what we’ve been able to accomplish as an agency. Accomplish as an agency. And I think, you know, as I look out, you know, the probably one of the things that’s been most helpful is some of the work of Vern Harnish.

Jeremy Weisz  44:55 

Sure, I’ve had him on the podcast before, Scaling Up.

Erik Rubadeau  44:59 

Scaling Up. Yeah, a friend of mine who’s in a totally different sector, you know, venture capital, kind of space, was like, well, you should read this book. And kind of gave it to me, and I read it, and I was like, Oh, this just, it’s like, it’s the application of common sense across every part of the business, and it’s such a cool way of thinking about things. And so certainly, those types of books over the years have been great. But yeah, I think, as the business has grown, I’ve had to kind of regrow in a way myself, right? Like I went from being hands-on in the business, you know, kind of day-to-day, part of the operations, to slowly but surely coming out of the day-to-day. Still applying a lot of strategy, but getting to that point where I need to be focusing more on what the business is doing and what it can be doing, and how it shapes, and who it partners with, and all that kind of stuff. And that has taken, I think I was a CEO in training for a couple years at, like, an organizational size of 12, and I think I’m back in that again now at 20 relearning what it means to be the CEO of an organization at 20 people. And, you know, what? How do we create the culture that we want to create? All those kinds of things. So certainly, there’s a lot that I’ve had to relearn.

Jeremy Weisz  44:59 

Any many other books on that front? You mentioned Scaling Up was pivotal. 

Erik Rubadeau  45:15 

Scaling Up is one. There’s a podcast that actually has been pretty awesome. There’s two podcasts, actually. So I listen to the HBR IdeaCast, and I find that those little half-hour like you just catch bits of people’s wisdom. But there’s been a podcast that Shane Parrish puts out things out of Ottawa called The Knowledge Project. And the number like, I think I’ve listened to just about every one of them. And there some books too. I think, yeah, he does. And his, like, just the wisdom, that format that he’s curated, I’ve learned a lot, or at least learned of a lot that I can then go digging in on my own. And really, kind of, for lack of words, double click into these, you know, into these concepts that I just didn’t know about until I hear someone else share their story. And most recently, one of the ones I listened to is he had the founder of HubSpot on, and I was just listening to how he described his journey of growing HubSpot.

And getting to that point where he’d kind of gone through these, you know, ashes and Phoenix, if you will, like of what the CEO or CEO role was as he grew, but then also getting to that point where he crashed that snowmobile, I think it was, and was stuck in the wilderness for a number for, like, didn’t think he was going to make it, and how that really changed his whole approach. And so listening to people’s stories like that have been awesome. And really, I think, for me, very foundational. And I think the work that Shane’s doing is awesome, so I really appreciate it.

Jeremy Weisz  47:42 

Erik, thank you so much. Everyone check out yeebooboodigital.com to learn more, more episodes of the podcast, and we’ll see everyone next time. Erik, thanks so much.

Erik Rubadeau  47:52 

Thank you. Take care.