Ed Clay 4:52
Yeah, I think that it’s a you attract people that share your vision. So we’re very vision driven. And mission driven and we believe in this idea that people can get along and that different people with little different difference in opinion can come together if you have the same goal. And so I’m really blessed and fortunate to have guys like Dr. Frank Omar and cola who is the former chief of immuno genetics for the national state of health. He actually wrote one of the main textbooks that oncologists use for immunotherapy for cancer, guys like Dr. Michael Liebman, who sits on 14 scientific advisory boards. Professor at three medical schools, including one in China is actually head of the translational medicine, Medicine Department of pharma Foundation, which is Big Pharma. Lots of guys like that. Our whole team is stacked in a way and Dr. BJ Mohan just postdoc, MD Anderson, the leader in liquid biopsy, things like that. So we really like share a vision and come together and realize that we have a lot more in common than against each other, per se, actually, we have a lot in common, we get along great. And we charge forward doing our best help cancer patients and trying to fix the system that is set up in the United States where it’s kind of an older system, the FDA has done a lot really last 10 years to make gains in clinical trials. But you know, the system was built like 1963 when the game was formed. And so it’s still a little slow compared to what we would like.
Jeremy Weisz 6:26
Yeah, I mean, I think this applies whether you’re in health care or business or whatever, attracting the best team is paramount. And so how talk about how hard was it to get these people on board with your mission? And how does that conversation go?
Ed Clay 6:44
Sure. So uh, you know, when we first started, chips and chips, it was doing a lot of natural therapies and we were completely open minded and we saw some people getting better within stage stage four cancer that had failed standard care, but a lot of people were still dying. We actually were like, Look, this isn’t, this isn’t Okay, how do we build a bridge with the conventional community? Because, quite frankly, stage four cancer, the conventional community doesn’t have a very good answer for it. The alternative community doesn’t have a really good answer for it. And it’s like, why are we throwing stones at each other? Why it is alternative sides or giant says the conventional side of the initial side? Throw giant stones the alternative side? While there’s no really good answer, and so, we actually started working with a company called bachi biologics. They did a trial at our hospital treated about 250 patients, the trial cost them probably $730,000. We did it at cost, it would have cost them you know, up to 25 million in the night. And they actually had two Nobel Prize winners on their on different boards. One of them are actually one Nobel Prize winner on their board. And they also had Dr. Frank Martin Cola, who is now our Chief Medical Officer for United cancer centers, and just started becoming friends with a lot of the people on their team and other company call them Unicom. Their team icy med tech Our team and Franco Dr. mercola was the president past president of the Society of immunotherapy for cancer, which is probably the largest non profit for immunotherapy for cancer. And this last year, you know, five to 10,000 people out there at their convention. And, you know, he really kind of opened up and open up his network, and they’re working on a lot of the things that we’re doing it ships, intermittent fasting, before chemotherapy, turning a tumor from cold to hot, all these concepts that we really believe in focusing on different types of diet for cancer, not necessarily as a treatment, but as a good adjunct diet. And we were actually studying those things and doing those things, a lot of those things as well. And they were doing it but taking a much more scientific approach and they have a lot of data coming out. So we just started working together, we became good friends. And he shares addition, he’s also the founder and editor in chief of the Journal of translational medicine. And translational medicine isn’t really done that much to the United States, but are not not modern anymore. But it was before 1960 1962. It’s from bench to bedside, how can a clinician also be a scientist? And a lot of people don’t make that distinction. But clinicians aren’t scientists in general. And so the bench to bedside How do you see something with a patient and make an adjustment that can make a difference and then figure out how to how to make that work scientifically as well. So that’s really what he’s passionate about in that in a lot of ways, is what united cancer centers will be doing as well bench to bedside how we get that translational medicine, you know, back in medicine today,
Jeremy Weisz 9:43
we’ll talk about I’ll have you talk about some of the the patients and some of the cancers and then some of the types of treatments alternative and then conventional, but why that huge disparity of 25 million in the US versus 750 thousand four, for you to help them get it done.
Ed Clay 10:05
It’s just it’s expensive to run clinical trials in the United States. Some you pay, you have to have all the doctors and all the scientists and all the insurance and all the regulations that go into doing that in the United States. And it’s not that much doesn’t cost near that much in Mexico, if you really do it at costs, and, and you’re not looking to, to make it profit off of it. And you’re trying to do it at the at the lowest cost possible, even the best possible data that you can. So it’s really just that
Jeremy Weisz 10:37
So some things, you know, Adam changed in the law, that, you know, I want you to talk about the United cancer centers and kind of what you’ll be using as far as there’s some changes with the trial, loss of the trial, right. So talk a little bit about what’s going on and then what is united Cancer Center is going to do?
Ed Clay 10:57
Yeah, sure. So the wreckage legislation passed in June of 2018. It was already passed in 42. States, I believe it was at the state level was the federal legislation. It was bipartisan legislation. And it says that any drug that’s been through a phase one trial, phase one FDA trial, the patient can ask that specific pharmaceutical company for the drug and the pharmaceutical company can give them that drug, without bad repercussions, like the data being used against them in future clinical trials or being sued. So that that was a big change in the law that really allowed patients access. Now the pharmaceutical company can say no to the patient. And what united cancer centers is, were the first institution to implement the right to try legislation. So we’ll go and make deals with the pharmaceutical companies and biotech companies. So we have access to these drugs so patients can get them fast. And then we’ll be actually hitting more data points than in a normal FDA trial. So we’ll be collecting more data for the pharmaceutical companies. So they have a good idea how their their product is going to perform in future clinical trials will also be using, like a hypothesis that we create based off of all of our scientists and what they really want to want to learn as far as immune responsiveness and and how the tumor microenvironment works and how you turn tumors Recoleta hot and get immunotherapy to work better. So we’ll be looking at things like low dose chemotherapy, fractionated radiation, different ways of doing conventional methods that in many ways cause less side effects but then make the immunotherapy drugs a new conventional immunotherapy drugs work better. So um, things like intermittent fasting to like little little adjustments, and then using those data points and allowing the biotech and pharma companies that are working with us with their drugs to look at them differently in combination. So it’s really kind of opening up the possibility for pharmaceutical companies and biotech companies to get great data on their drugs. Not an extra costs mean, it’s not going to cost them $25 million to get that anymore, the patient pays just the cost of medication. So at least the pharmaceutical companies cost is taking care of the medication. And then it’s a win win across the board because they’re not paying an exorbitant amount of money for this drug. And the pharmaceutical company also gets amazing data to and most importantly, it benefits the patient when the drug works. And we have a good idea based on genetic information, what drugs could work and might not work. And we’ll be picking those drugs from the pharmaceutical companies based off the page patient’s genetic profile.
Jeremy Weisz 13:36
And it seems like you’re creating just a almost like, even a bigger vision beyond that with the database you’re forming. That’s going to help cancers overall, what’s your vision, ultimate vision with that?
Ed Clay 13:49
Yeah, so um, well, couple things mean, the data is very, very important. Sometimes people will debate like, oh, y’all aren’t clicking the data with this right to try and think about like, Wait a second. You can’t say that. We’re collecting way more data we’re going to have, we’re going to be collecting more data than anyone, I believe. So at least that’s the goal. We also have, we’re also gonna be working with IBM Watson, using their supercomputer to aggregate data for us and actually give patients an idea of what drugs are available in different countries. So we don’t have something available here. Oh, you can go to China for this, oh, you can go here for this. We want them to just stay here and to use our modern use drugs that we have access to. But if we don’t have access, and something, we want the best for the patient, then we’ll say hey, it’s here in Germany, you’re welcome to call them here’s the number, etc. So we really want to give the patients access and transform. transform the whole process for that. Yeah.
Jeremy Weisz 14:48
Yeah. I mean, that’s, that’s game changing. Because I mean, that’s, you have a unique perspective because of chips, you know, and be able to do certain things that maybe people wouldn’t be able to do in the US and well, why make it only Mexico, right because someone may in China have some kind of mushroom that would help someone. So that kind of leads me to, you know, I know in your public about this so I’ll ask it right at one point you will get into your your martial arts career but you had so much pain and you were addicted to pill pain pills because you just need to get through and, and this kind of relates, right, that journey of that addiction. So I want you know, talk a little bit about that.
Ed Clay 15:29
Sure. And around 2007 I tore my ACL PCL meniscus. We had team doctors that are at our MMA gym, they give me prescription pain pills. I was taking them for about two years and I want to stop one day and went through withdraw and took another pill course the withdraw ends and I tried that over a six month period, you know, four or five times with that process was unsuccessful getting off of them is I went to a therapist and I told the therapist You know, I’m completely functional running my companies, but I’d rather have a clear brain and deal with the pain than a foggy brain and no pain whatsoever and the therapist told me America’s behind the times when it comes to opiate withdraw. You need to Google Ibogaine and so I google Ibogaine and it comes from Africa, it’s illegal in the United States. Supposedly it stopped 100% of opiate withdrawals. I didn’t really believe it. But then I watch documentaries like hey, you know what, I’ll give it a try, you know, and so I took a plane to Mexico City and took a bus a couple hours south that I began in somebody’s bedroom was
later on never had a withdrawal and never had a craving ever
since and so that I asked myself and that’s not available in the United States but can help people what else is out there and then that sent me down the rabbit hole to where we are today.
Jeremy Weisz 16:48
I don’t know if it’s too personal but what happened in that bedroom like what what is what do they do?
Ed Clay 16:54
Well Ibogaine is, you know, probably the strongest psychedelic drug in the world. So it’s a deep introspective it’s what the blood to use for the rites of passage ceremony ceremony. So I dealt with a lot of things maybe that was afraid of or was was faced with and some different perspective and it just gave me a lot of insight for even more love and compassion for my family. I think one of my greatest fears was my mom who was sick dying without the without knowing how much I loved her that really scared my both my parents, like we don’t we see with Kobe Bryant with what just happened to Kobe Bryant. He was like stunning for the country’s like so quick. You know, are you telling your mom you love Are you telling your dad you love them? You know, your family, your friends? Are you doing that? Because you might not get a chance tomorrow? You know, that is what, you know, I think that’s what’s really important. That’s actually one of the main things I got from that. Like, go tell your friends and family especially my dad is not gonna be around forever.
Jeremy Weisz 17:52
You know, and you had an amazing interview and I encourage people to check it out with you. And Eddie Bravo and tell people first where they can find that and I’ll talk about what I was gonna ask you.
Ed Clay 18:08
Yeah, the big idea podcast calm.
Jeremy Weisz 18:10
Okay. Yeah, check it out. It’s two hours and 15 minutes worth every minute. But, you know, Eddie talks about how in that that his dad never told them, he loved them. And so then he basically was talking about how he, you know, I don’t know, he, it was his son or one of his children. He basically tells him like, every second He’s like, yeah, Dad, I know. And it’s kind of exactly what you were talking about.
Ed Clay 18:37
Yeah, I mean, he was saying that it that didn’t like, tell me love him a lot. And so he’s telling us on all the time, you know, I was like, Dad, you know, I said it like 20 times a day, you know, but that’s important. That’s important. We don’t we may not realize every day because we take a lot for granted. I think that we all take certain things for granted. And, you know, it takes something like what happened with Colby or a close friend or loved one to realize Hey, we need to value every single day and you know, really tell those people that we love them.
Jeremy Weisz 19:05
One of the things that you talked a lot about, with the three of you in that conversation was mindset, and especially with the mixed martial arts background, mindset is key. And then you were joking around saying, you know, it’s not emphasized enough as far as in cancer treatments. Right. So, talk about the importance of mindset and how you incorporate that into chip sign into the treatment.
Ed Clay 19:30
Yeah, I always say, you know, mindset could be the most important thing. You know, I cannot say that it is but it could be, I don’t know, it could be an you look at you know, I relate everything or a lot of things to fighting mixed martial arts fighting its combat. One person goes into the character, people go in the cage, one person is going to win. And I mean, it would be stupid if I were trading a fighter to tell him. Don’t worry about your mindset. It doesn’t matter. Don’t focus, don’t get in the zone. Don’t Visualize, don’t do those things that we can’t exactly quantify scientifically and say this is getting the result. But, but we know that it is, you know, we know it, we know it makes a difference. And so for cancer patients, I think it’s a very underutilized. I don’t think that it’s used enough. And it might be the most important thing, having a good mindset, being focused, knowing what you want visualizing, manifesting those things to become real and not being attached to the result. You know, not saying, Oh, I had very positive mindset didn’t work this time. But now you know what that happens. That’s all of us. Nobody’s figured it all out. But we know that it’s important to have a good mindset. So, you know, it ships that we have a class called the power of the mind, where we really, it’s a group class where we really dig into what’s going on and really kind of bring it back to what’s important, which is human connection. We also have three psychologists full time that work with our patients and so they can really kind of go And a lot of people say that chips is kind of like a spiritual experience for them. Because we are, you know, we’re hitting the mindset, you know, deeply and we’re giving those patients an opportunity to heal that because so that healing supports them in their ultimate healing of their cancer, then you know, it’s a giant win.
Jeremy Weisz 21:21
How did you prepare while you were fighting? Like horrified or training How did you prepare as far as focus and getting into state and everything like that?
Ed Clay 21:33
Well, I mean, so I you know, I was ranked number nine in the world at one point by the shooter organization, but I like to say that was only after three professional fights and they really wanted to get me in into their organization that was very good in the gym at the time and young and one of the first really MMA guys that was training you know, high level, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, high level boxing, you know, professional boxing pressure points like kickboxing and was one match all American wrestling, so the combination did was great. Now, you know, it’s a little everybody Like that, you know, but um you know the mind I say that because the mindset for me going into fight what I would train my fighters was you know every time they would do a push up and I got this promoter and they would say I am a champion I am a champion I am. I am statements are super important. If you’re doing you know, any type of training, I love those I am statements at the end of the training session, walking them through a, you know, a five to 15 minute guided meditation, where they see themselves in the ring, they go through their perfect game plan at the end of the fight, they see their hand being raised, when they stand up every time raising their hands, just a lot of those things that are kind of subliminal that, you know, the system, you go into them over and over becomes a practice. I am a champion, you know, I am a champion. I’m okay. I’ve got this. I’ve got this focus, you know, so really focusing on where they want to go in the fight and using affirmations to support the result.
Jeremy Weisz 22:56
Yeah, thanks for sharing that. That’s super powerful. Anyone could use that. I’m your mom. One of the inspirations behind this is your mom what happened with her?
Ed Clay 23:09
Yeah so um you know after the whole Ibogaine story I was looking for. I was like what else is out there that’s not available United States I can help you Well, my mom had a very aggressive version of rheumatoid arthritis and she had failed the standard medications she had broke her back on a shortfall from the pregnant zone. She had gotten tuberculosis from the side effects of another one of the medications and multiple staph infections, so she couldn’t take the immunosuppressants or suppressing their immune system. She has an overactive immune system with an autoimmune disease it was suppressing your immune system. So she couldn’t handle those medications. And so I was looking for answers for her and I came across a paper on polies toxins for rheumatoid arthritis that was written in 1923 And to me not being a scientist, it just made common sense. Like, instead of suppressing the immune system, it hyper like stimulated the immune system. And so it reset it from the other way. So Kohli’s would go in and activates the innate immune system does a lot of things to the body, and it causes acute inflammation. Like when she did the coleus her joints really swelled up. And then the next day was down tremendously. And it’s like, okay, our hypothesis makes sense. That’s just one anecdotal patient. This has not been scientifically proven, but it did like okay, you’re on the right path, and actually deserves more study. But um, yeah, so for her, she was our second patient. We actually bought the hospital that had the Kohli’s toxins. So this hospital was the only Hospital in North America that had that had been closed for about two years. And she came How
Jeremy Weisz 24:55
do you discover the hospital?
Ed Clay 24:58
Oh my gosh, it was luck. So we were very familiar with a lot of the alternative treatments. were familiar with polies toxins. were familiar with Gerson therapy and we actually drove by it with a guy who we were looking at Ibogaine facility with and saying, Oh yeah, our five to seven year plan is cancer but this is where we’re starting and he’s like, let me take you buy this hospital that nobody’s that anymore that closed down and we took a picture of a hospital called a real estate agent. While we were back in Nashville called a real estate agent in Tijuana said hey, here’s a picture of this hospital, you know what it is? And he said, you know, the owner, and he’s like, Yeah, he’s allows the original Gerson hospital. Not unlike set the hospital. That’d be it. Sure enough, we met the met the owner and made it close. Two years later, he was kind of retiring. He’s almost 70 years old. And so we purchased it from him. And yeah, our mom or my mom was our one of our what was our second patient and she came in in a wheelchair. arthritis was attacking your organs she had covered from head to toe in a rash and she was walking and the rash went away about six weeks later.
Jeremy Weisz 26:09
So So what did you do with her? Actually back up a second. It was like, yeah, we bought the hospital my mom, I want to stick on the Bob the hospital thing like what? How does? What is the discussion with you and Scott in dedrick around, Hey, I got this, you know, like, people have hard enough time like, Hey, what do you want to go eat for dinner? Like, Hey, I just has this hospital. Let’s buy it. What What does that conversation look like with the three of you?
Unknown Speaker 26:39
Well, I mean,
Ed Clay 26:41
we’ve been looking to figure out the licensing issues in Mexico for a long time. So this hospital, you know, had a license sounds like hey, so you know, instead of having to go through the whole licensing process, this one already has a pathway to it. It’s already You know, got cocoa priests approval has in the past and we just got to get the licensing again. But um, yeah, it was you know, Scotty actually was initially involved in the prop project and I had spent a lot of cash over the years working on this. And he came in and helped out really, with the rest. So Scotty was just on board that to make a difference and to help my mom and he’s obviously very successful in his other businesses as well. And, but he was just on board, you know, for the mission to make a difference. You know, he’s almost 50 years old now. And it’s like, man, I got to make a big difference outside of mixed martial arts in the world. And, you know, that’s that’s kind of what sky is not for those that know Scott and Scott, he has more friends, just about anybody I know. Like he’s, if you look at his life, he has had a life of service in mixed martial arts. I mean, he’s one of the first people to sponsor a lot of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and mixed martial arts fighters. Even we’re always sleeping. on his couch. Yeah, he was one of the first Americans to go to Brazil. Everybody. All the Americans that went to Brazil would stay with Scott. He just helped help tell him what do you need? Here’s some shirts, here’s some gear. Here’s some. So that’s that’s what his life was even before that. And you know, this was an opportunity to give back on a bigger picture thing that makes no difference in, in society with humanity. How did you meet Scott? Gosh, I met Scotty when I was 15 years old at a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu tournament. Things like the Joe Morello tournament in California. I didn’t have a lot of money growing up, but my mom worked for American Airlines. And so I flew for free and so I would fly out to the tournament and Scotty was always there. So that’s, I met him 23 almost 24 years ago.
Jeremy Weisz 28:42
And did was there any relationship beyond that with training or brand like that? How did it progress throughout the years when your
Ed Clay 28:49
best friends for that long and we trained together? You know, Sky had OTF which is on the mat. He also had a competitor of my company. Lucky geeks You know, we joke because people like how our competitors Yes, but we shared everything she shared the same manufacturer. Anytime Scotty needed help, I would help them anytime he needed help, or I didn’t help he would help me. I mean, it was always, how do we help each other with two competing companies, you know, reach our goal, it’s a lot easier to get ahead by working with each other than against each other. And, yeah, so we worked together for a very long time as competitors, but as partners in a way,
Jeremy Weisz 29:30
and then dedrick How do you know dedrick
Ed Clay 29:32
so I met Derek, he had just got all the advertising industry very successful in the advertising industry in Chicago, and he wanted to see the impact that he could make on a smaller company. And so we interviewed him for national mixed martial arts actually my brother interview and was like, hey, this guy’s way overqualified. Can’t tell me what to do. I’m like, Yeah, man, come on, and he ended up buying national mixed martial arts from me eventually and but when this project was finally coming around, It took a long time. I mean, we did chips up fast, but we were working on figuring out the licensing issues for let’s see, probably five years before that. We’ve been working on it for five years before we even opened chips. Uh huh. So when that happened dedrick sold national mixed martial arts and came and moved to Tijuana as well. Three of us number two you want to Mexico
Jeremy Weisz 30:24
so back to your mom for a second she and if anyone’s experienced family or friends with rheumatoid arthritis, it like basically eats away your joints. I mean, it’s eating your own body, your autoimmune disease. So she was in a wheelchair then she’s walking and doing a million times better. What were some of the things that you did with her to help?
Ed Clay 30:49
Yeah, so the first thing is diet. She had a very strict Gerson therapy which is 13 fresh pressed organic juices a day. Five coffee enemas a day. It’s all you know, 15 to 20 pounds of fresh pressed organic juices a day. Wow. A lot and, and then the coffee enemas there, the idea is that it opens up the bile ducts in your liver pumps out the toxins through your gallbladder and on your stomach. So your blood pumps to your liver once every three or so minutes at a 15 minute coffee enema you’d be looking at 15 or five times. So constantly putting in all of those phytochemicals and all that goodness from other organic juices, the pressed organic juices and then dumping out the toxins. So that was number one. Number two, is was the coleus as well the coleus toxins and polies toxins. It’s an amazing I say drug, amazing treatment. That was actually it was discovered in 1891 or may 1990. Do you know that the history of coleus toxins no I don’t always I got so Dr. William Cole is considered the father of immunotherapy. He was working at Memorial Hospital which is now Sloan Kettering. He very famous surgeon at a patient named Betsy Dashiell, who had a stroke coma and he amputated her arm thinking that was going to stop the spread of the cancer. It didn’t she died a few weeks later and it really upset them. So Dr. Coley went through the files and Memorial Hospital to see if anybody had survived a sarcoma and nobody had survived a sarcoma except one patient he found this patient was like seven years later brought them back in and turned it out while the patient was had the sarcoma. He also got an air syphilis infection, and when he almost died of an infection, but when he survived the infection, the cancer was gone. So Dr. Coley thought will have an accidental infection can cause a spontaneous remission then, an intentional attack can also cause a spontaneous remission. So infected infected multiple patients with the live bacteria some when the complete remission others actually died from the infection. So then Dr. Coley changes from a live bacteria to a dead bacteria two types of dead bacteria and from 1891 to 1936 Dr. kolia higher success rate treating most cancers than we do today. His daughter founded Cancer Research Institute in like 1952 a lot of the immunotherapy drugs that we’re seeing today a checkpoint. The scientists from the Cancer Research Institute actually worked on those Dr. Helen cleanouts, which is Dr. Plays daughter. She actually mentored a doctor named Lloyd old who was the vice president of Sloan Kettering because of Dr. Ola. I think he’s a big reason we also have immunotherapy for cancer today. And you know, in the textbooks, call these toxins was made illegal in the United States in 1965. Why? Even the doctors are saying no, actually this stuff did work. And now today Dr. Coley in the textbooks is still considered the father of immunotherapy. And it’s not a question of if his treatment work, it absolutely worked. But there’s other reasons really today that it’s not not available. Why was it illegal was deemed illegal? Well, you know, back then, so you figure mustard gas was, like made available in 1948. They were using it for blood cancers. And they thought for some reason that if well, if we use this toxin is this chemotherapy. In a solid tumor, it’s gonna work the same as a blood tumor. And they did that for like, I don’t know, 70 plus years, it seems like but it didn’t work. And I think that they were so focused on those drugs and colleagues didn’t really fall into that they didn’t understand how it worked. They didn’t really believe the immune system played a role. And so they came a lot of reasons to not do it. Um, but probably stocks is now there’s a drug called CPG files are has a patent for CPG they have multiple clinical trials a couple others had a variation of cpgs pG is just one of the dangerous signals and Kohli’s toxins holies toxins is really hard to patent you could patent but you can also make a small adjustment and so if a pharmaceutical companies gonna put a billion dollars into a clinical trial was a Kohli’s toxins you know somebody can come in and change the pattern a little bit and make a similar drug doesn’t make a whole lot of sense for them from a commercial standpoint so nobody’s you know going to do that but in my opinion, police toxins is the best edge of an out there. And I think historically it has been to and I think historically if you look at the numbers, it has higher success than most of the things that we’re doing today.
Jeremy Weisz 35:45
So I want to walk through a few patients, for you know that you’ve seen their chips in the car, give people an example of the combination of the conventional and alternative with some of them and What are some of the most common? I mean, because they come to you and what state Typically they’re in stage three for what? Let’s
go ahead.
Ed Clay 36:15
Yes, I most of the patients have failed standard of care are stage four in a failed standard of care. So they’ve already gone to the best of conventional therapy. And that has failed or their stage four and they were given, you know, six months to live three months to live. So a lie basically what the right to try law in the United States is now setup for
Jeremy Weisz 36:40
um, how do people find you?
Ed Clay 36:43
Mostly the internet, or word of mouth, so no internet or word of mouth.
Unknown Speaker 36:50
War this show
Jeremy Weisz 36:52
was a show could save someone’s life enough. You know, they’ve never heard never heard of the facility before.
Ed Clay 36:59
You actually was with you. A hospital minutes. It’s a, it makes a big difference. I mean, we don’t have all the answers. Anybody who says they have a cure is line, anybody, I always look at people say, Oh, I know what’s going on. Like you don’t know what’s going on because the people that are sitting this the most don’t know what’s going on. In reality, nobody really knows. It’s not an easy answer. It’s not super complicated. You could have two patients, you could have two patients with the same cancer treat with the same treatments. One patient responds, one patient doesn’t. Why is that? You know, it’s very, very complicated. But we do have some cool options in Mexico that, you know, I’ve seen, you know, stage four cancer go away. You know, the trick is to stay away, but I’ve also seen old school patients 1520 2540 years out, that are still alive to this day. And, you know, that’s, that’s really promising.
Jeremy Weisz 37:53
Walk me through a memorable case. So people get a sense of the mixture of conventional and alternative what what patients stick out for you that have come through the clinic
Ed Clay 38:07
Um, let’s see. Gosh, what really combines that game Ryan wealth. stage four B cell follicular lymphoma. conventional therapy has a pretty good response to let lymphoma although it’s not a curative response, but we’ve done a nice little combination with him. A Laura pain. Laura came to us in hospice she drove from Knoxville, Tennessee, all the way to Tijuana Mexico because she couldn’t fly it was pressure on her brain. And she was blind in her left eye when she came. And within two weeks she could. She got vision back we got a giant tumor coming out of her head. We got about 80% reduction. Now it’s three years later, she’s having a rough time right now battling back by that’s a good example of someone who we drastically extend their life without talking Side Effects is three years ago from hospice to where she is
Jeremy Weisz 39:04
what kind of treatments to do with her what would be
Ed Clay 39:08
maybe a combination like lower dose chemotherapy arm like 15 to 20% dose I believe she was doing different immunotherapies we’ve got a first diet, we believe is really important as well. Something called Vg 5000, which is a placental based vaccine that cuts off the blood supply, kind of like an Avastin but a little different. And, gosh, I think she’s done dendritic cell vaccines. I mean, we need to direct cell vaccines that chips Provenge is the only dendritic cell that’s approved in the United States through the FDA for prostate cancer, three doses is $93,000. We that we can do those three doses for about 12,500. To put it in perspective, but same type of thing. So Laura’s done that lympha kind activated killer cells 1980s a lot of studies on that they haven’t in the last days though, the National Cancer Institute says on that they haven’t done studies on combination therapy, we use it in combination. Don’t look at it as standalone therapy, a lot of stuff that we’re doing. So it’s been studied, but it’s studied as standalone therapies. And a lot of these treatments really aren’t designed for Stanley combination yet. Get it from different different ways to work on the biology of cancer.
Jeremy Weisz 40:28
Yeah, no, I mean, there’s really aggressive forms and then not as aggressive. The question you know, for let’s say, someone is first diagnosed with the prostate cancer, that’s not progressed. I would say if one of your family members, would you still recommend them coming into the coming to Chiesa for certain treatments, or we
Unknown Speaker 40:50
have them visit convention?
Ed Clay 40:54
Yeah, so I guess it all depends, like when I have talked to doctor because I’m not a doctor. So I wouldn’t actually actually be the one to recommend it, but like thought process behind it, you know, stage one prostate cancer that hasn’t metastasized or traveled. I mean, I believe that surgery has a pretty good prognosis for a lot of men don’t want to have that surgery. So if that’s the case, and they would have other options, there’s reasonably good options in United States for prostate cancer, especially before it spread. And I think that for most people, that is the best, the best choice for you, you know, you cut it out, or I forget the, the different drugs, they get you on the hormonal drugs, but I think lupine. I forget the medications, but it’s reasonably good prognosis with prostate cancer, a lot of it depends as well on what the Gleason score is, how aggressive it is. Some of its so slow that you know, colleagues will tell not to worry about it, and I would suggest you I would think for that make sense I’ll tell you one interesting thing with prostate cancer though, is there’s something called something called avataan, which is vitamin C and K three 101 ratio. We actually got avataan approved in Mexico about three years ago. But avataan has a phase one FDA trial for prostate cancer. And it actually shows that it almost flatline the elevation of the rise of PSA. Hmm, that is something that if it were me that a family member if I had prostate cancer, probably the first thing I do would be to start taking avataan from what we’ve seen relatively low side effects. And it just makes sense. But yes, I’m like prostate cancer, I guess there’s a lot of variables. It just depends on the Gleason score, if it’s spread, those type of things.
Jeremy Weisz 42:51
Yeah. I want to talk about how people can proactively help themselves they were talking about you know, once you get cancer, but I’m sure you’ve decided I’ve heard a lot of things of Wow. Like, maybe we should start doing this before we get cancer. Imagine that. But before we talk about that I want to ask about, you know, this is it’s a really, your job is really tough in a lot of respects, and especially in emotional respect, because these people, some of them die, you know, and how do you personally deal with in? I don’t know, if you’ve seen this down deal with that on a daily basis, even though you have a higher success rate than most? It’s like people are coming with in dire straits, I imagine.
Ed Clay 43:35
Yeah, well, I mean, you know, when it’s stage four sent home, they basically sit on the die with no great options. You know, it’s, you know, more people dive in survive. You know, that’s just a fact. And a lot of these clinics and stuff for hospitals don’t like to admit that even conventional, that’s just the reality. We’re dealing with stage four, you know, not just stage four patients. But you know, the the toughest Cases of stage four. So you have to really have a passion for helping people and, and loving people no matter what, I think that you, like, for me, it’s just realizing that every single person needs to be treated as an individual, not separate. And if I can make a connection with that and give them some hope, I think I’m doing a good job. I think that we are doing a good job. Anytime that we can extend life, which I believe we do a lot. I think we do a lot more life extension than curing cancer. That’s just a reality. And yes, we have a lot more life extension, or getting a full remission in cancer. You know, but, you know, what would you do? Like, how much is it worth for to have an extra three months? Six months, a year, two years, three years? What’s your loved one? I mean, think about this. Jeremy, who’s your closest loved one, but that it’s passed away?
Jeremy Weisz 44:49
passed away was I mean, I, my grandfather’s in ground grandmother passed away.
Ed Clay 44:57
Okay, so your grandfather, what would you give for another month Talk, talk to them. Like, it’s, it’s priceless man. And that’s the difference that I can confidently say that we make. Every day, we make that difference for most patients where I feel like we extend their life and, you know, so that’s, that’s what we’re in, that fills me up to where it’s not a loss every time someone passes away, because we deal with a lot of death. And, you know, at first, you know, you’re trying to solve this extremely complicated problem and coming from a fight backgrounds, like if if they’re dying, we weren’t, you know, winning, you know, and, but I don’t believe that’s really a logical case. That’s an emotional case. But we have to, we have to think about this differently. And the main thing is, we want to extend life. When we get the miracles, we celebrate them. We extend life we celebrate them and also Mentally, you know, that’s kind of that’s kind of how I handle it because I know that we’re helping people overall.
Jeremy Weisz 46:07
How do you what parallels do you draw from fighting cancer to fighting in the octagon?
Ed Clay 46:15
Oh, gosh, a lot. I mean, so I gave the analogy on that podcast about, you know, the parallels between mixed martial arts and cancer. And so like in the very first UFC, I, you know, I always wanted to know, what was the best style Like who? Like what is is it prati? Is it Taekwondo? Is it Brazilian Jiu Jitsu? I didn’t know about Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. I want to know what was what actually worked. You know, when I was a kid, like my favorite time of the year was in the telephone book would come out because we didn’t have made it to give me martial arts lessons. But I wanted to know so I call up all the instructors like hey, you know, you think your karate is better than this. I just wanted to write, I was doing my research. So, um, when the UFC came out is like, Oh my gosh, these questions are finally going to be answered. This is the one I always wanted to know. And so this little Brazilian came in and won everything like oh my gosh, it’s Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. That’s where it’s at. Like that is that’s what that’s what it is Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Brazilian jujitsu is the best martial arts. And then you started seeing the wrestlers learn how to defend the submissions from the Brazilian Jiu Jitsu guy and then you had the kickboxer start to learn how to defend the takedown of the wrestler, the kickboxer started to win. And then it became this thing. That’s what we see as mixed martial arts today, but you couldn’t really deny what worked and what didn’t work. The same. That’s how we look at
Jeremy Weisz 47:43
you couldn’t deny it because one person emerged as the winner.
Ed Clay 47:47
Exactly. And with cancer. We took the same approach like we weren’t looking at it like a conventional oncologist or scientist per se. You know, we knew The power of the mind going in, we knew the power of diet going in we like, you can’t argue that with us like we know it, you’re not going to convince me that the mind doesn’t matter, you’re not going to convince me the diet doesn’t matter. I know, does it matter the same for everybody? No. But overall, if we have a system where we train people’s mind positive things, and let them work on the issues that they’ve had, let them focus on getting well, and let them let go of any of the baggage to hold on, they’re probably going to get a better response. If they focus on a diet no matter what it is, it’s not Gerson therapy, they’re probably going to get a better response. That’s from our m&a training. Understand that. So but from the treatments, also, we couldn’t deny that the alternative side of the conventional side don’t have very good answers, like the subject what I see some of these videos and the claims that people are making like, Oh, this is the answer for this, like, you don’t know what they’re talking about. I think they might think that they know what they’re talking about. But it’s way more complicated than, you know, not eating Sugar or, you know, turning the body alkaline or a lot of these things, things that
Jeremy Weisz 49:06
what are some of the misconceptions? Yeah. What are some of those misconceptions that you people hear that it obviously plays a role, but not as much as what some tout, what are the like you just mentioned a few. What are some other misconceptions with the alternative side?
Ed Clay 49:23
I think a big misconception is that if it works for one person is going to work for everybody. Do I believe that there’s some strange results that are out there? Sure. But it’s not you’re not going to do Rick Simpson oil with every person and get this result? I have I seen Rick Simpson oil, put on a tumor and the like on the outside of the skin and it go down or away? Yes. But how is that going to work? If you have a tumor in your liver? how’s that gonna work? If you have something like how, like, how is that going to work? And I don’t think anybody can really tell us that, you know, the the idea that a lot of the cases that you hear they were doing a lot of other things. So they might have been doing conventional therapy, as well. But you’re saying, Oh, no, it’s this, it’s got to be this. You don’t know that just because you were eating Africa or apricot kernels and kernels that got rid of your cancer, it could have been the chemotherapy or could have been the radiation or could have been the surgery. I mean, there’s some people out there that are like to have surgery, and then focus on their diet, and they’re like, you know, what, I don’t know if I’m going to do it over again, to hold it in the surgery. I’m like, you know, that doesn’t make any sense to me. And you’re suggesting to people that your cancer went away by your diet, when, you know, well, it’s just as much of a possibility, if not way more, that the surgery actually did and I did more than the diet. You know, there’s a lot of common system that didn’t go to the other way. The conventional side would say, Oh, well, the diet didn’t matter at all. No, I think actually probably mattered. A lot of somebody did surgery and then really focused on being healthy. But you know, it’s a combination of things. And I think that people get so stuck on being right. And it being one way, when it could be a combination of things and instead of those combinations, but we don’t need to dismiss them so quickly to make ourselves right and be aligned with the one way of thinking, that’s what’s happened for so long with all these all this side doesn’t know this side doesn’t know. Another thing is like talking about a cure for cancer. What is a cure for cancer? I don’t even know what it is. What is a cure for cancer? Because every time I be here, like what’s the cure are here because, you know, there’s multiple definitions, and I don’t think anybody really knows I hear people say all this is the cure the cure. I mean, because the bold statement, yeah, what is a Cheerio? I don’t even know what that is. So nothing that I’ve ever seen works in every patient. And most of it doesn’t work in most in reality, so You know, that’s that’s probably the biggest misconception. This isn’t making anybody wrong. I’m saying be open minded to all things. And don’t throw out other things. Just because you know, of your position.
Jeremy Weisz 52:15
Yeah, I mean, you and Eddie and Scott, were talking about ego, and how you can’t survive. And then a may if you have a big ego because you need to, what, what were you were you were,
Ed Clay 52:29
you lose every day. I mean, you go into the gym. And, you know, we had above when you walk into my gym above the door ever say leave your ego at the door, as you’re getting into that training room with real professionals that know what they’re doing. And if you don’t know what you’re doing is you’re going to get tapped out really quickly. And it’s no big deal. You just, you’re just not on that level. But you know, if when you go and train with the best, if you have an ego, you might get your arm broken. You know, you might get your You might think that oh, I can go and load up my punches on this guy and I’m a high level professional. And then you hit them hard once and you’re turning up on them, and then they’re gonna knock you out real quick. So you gotta leave your ego at the door because I’ve seen a lot of really tough guys walk in there and they they leave, you know, crying and upset. So, um, you know, that’s, that’s why I said, leave your ego. That’s why the ego is such a big thing in mixed martial arts. Same thing for cancer, like, we just want to do what’s best for the patient. It can’t be an ego, it can’t be an ego and we just want to do what’s best for the patient because there’s an ego in it. If we were to get rich, where the original Gerson hospital, we could have just done Gerson therapy for the last five years and said, Oh, no, it’s all diet. Like, come on. Come on. I mean, it hasn’t worked for some we’ve seen it work for some, but for the majority of people, no, it doesn’t work like that. We had the original Gerson hospital. So it’s hard to I love Gerson therapy. I know my mom did Gerson therapy. I’ve done Gerson therapy. I’ve been Leading the power of Gerson therapy. So you have somebody who believes in it, but just not as a cancer treatment not as the only way to do things. So I think it’s just having that open mindset that, that if people did that, I think even most people have a better chance of surviving their cancer being open minded, not being closed minded. Oh, let’s to wanna I mean, that’s that, you know that that’s a hurdle that a lot of
Jeremy Weisz 54:21
stigma,
Ed Clay 54:22
people got to overcome it, I get it, but like, be open to possibility don’t just be closed off. What are that? What if you being closed off? cause you to die? What if there is a possibility in Tijuana? I mean, what if there is I mean, that that being closed off might have just ended your life so that it goes all the way around being open minded to conventional therapy. Like you know, I asked myself this question a lot for for cancer. If I had cancer, what would I do with certain cancers, you know, testicular cancer, high fury, high cure rate with conventional therapy I’ve been considering, you know, conventional therapy, I’d have other things I’m doing but I’d be considered the high dose chemo, leukemia, certain lymphomas be doing probably a lot of conventional therapy, especially with leukemia. And if that didn’t work, I’d be going and doing other things as well. Other cancer stage four level, I mean, I would probably be doing what we’re doing Mexico for the most part. Oh, yeah. And that’s actually that’s what I would be if I had stage four cancer I would there’s no way solid tumor cancer that would be loaded up with tumor until the very end after everything else. So that would be like my in backup plan, not the first because I don’t want to waste my immune system, load myself up with the chemo that’s just you know, it’s just for me, but I don’t know if that kind of explains the idea of being open minded even, you know, we have access and and knowledge to alternative and conventional cancer treatments that pretty much nobody else has. I mean, we like that’s what we do have 25 plus doctors that work with us as some of the top scientists the world that work for us, you know, we have a lot of different options and the My answer is be open to all possibility and be reasonable about everything and weigh your pros and cons and don’t be closed off to Tijuana. Just because it’s Tiana. That could kill some people.
Jeremy Weisz 56:12
Yeah, totally add. Yeah, thanks for sharing that. I think that’s a I love that comparison that you bring with the, the mixed martial arts to the cancer. proactively speaking, you know, we talk a lot about right now, you know, and stage stage for stuff for the person who wants to proactively prevent this and what, what recommendations do you have for prevention, a regimen of prevention, and you meant you mentioned a few things, but if someone right now is like, Listen, my goal is to not come out with any cancer no matter what, what would you tell them to do to prevent it?
Ed Clay 56:54
Why this is gonna be gonna be a little controversial, but, you know, controversial is fun. Yeah. Because there’s a lot of people that don’t like vaccines, but I think we see a lot of HPV related cancers. I think the Gardasil vaccine is I used to not be a big fan, but seeing people die of those HPV related cancers and looking at the numbers, I think that’s going to drop the level a lot. So that would be one. I think diet. Now it’s being proven obesity is a major cause of cancer. You got to have a good diet.
All of you so
Jeremy Weisz 57:25
diet, talk about diet for a second, because you mentioned intermittent fasting before what type of things should people look into?
Ed Clay 57:33
Yeah, so. So my thought for like, the broad market is just be healthy with your diet, lots of fruits and vegetables, good protein. I’m not a specific diet, but if you need you can drink fresh pressed organic juices. You know, a lot of people will do well being on a vegan diet. A lot of people do well being on a vegetarian diet, but just overall good healthy diet. There’s so many diets out there. I think we get kind of caught in the weeds sometimes on which one to use and getting debates, but I don’t personally think it matters as much as a whole.
Jeremy Weisz 58:07
I just think people love processed foods, refined sugars type of stuff.
Ed Clay 58:11
GMOs, lots of organic foods. You know, that’s that’s kind of where I land on that.
Jeremy Weisz 58:20
You were saying alcohol?
Ed Clay 58:22
Oh, yeah, alcohol is, is a major contributing factor to cancer. I mean, you know, they’ve pretty much wiped out smoking, when I wiped it out. It reduced the amount of people smoking, which is great, but alcohol is another big one that causes cancer. So I mean, really, those those things, I think can make a big, big difference. Yes, smoking out of the way, hopefully soon, completely out of the way. You if people were to realize how important is not over drink, you know, being on a good diet and then be aware of the, you know, HPV related cancers. I think that’s, that’s where I would, that’s where I would start. And, you know, we all have these risk factors. I mean, we all, it’s all living to if I got cancer, I’d be like, you know what, I can see exactly why I got cancer. I mean, I lived a rough life in my 20s, I probably drank too much at one point. I mean, I was fighting a lots of things. And, you know, I’m not attached to it, too, by the way, you know, we’re just doing doing what we the best that we can. But you know, being open minded to the fact that we might be doing things that increase the risk. I know the risk. People hear this, you’re hearing the risk, you get to choose your life and what you want to do. And, you know, so we do have those kind of like kind of obesity, like we know how to help people lose weight. But there’s still about 38% of people that are obese, the United States, why is that they’re choosing to do it. Same thing. We know how to drastically reduce the chances of us getting cancer. It’s just up to us to do those things.
Jeremy Weisz 59:56
I always ask is first of all, I’d Thank you, everyone should check out United cancer centers com they can also check out you know, the chips a hospital.org. And the other places we should point people towards I one last question before, but any other places on online we should point people towards?
Ed Clay 1:00:15
No, I think it’s the United cancer center.com. org. The big idea podcast calm.
Jeremy Weisz 1:00:22
So as I always ask this since it’s Inspired Insidertwo questions, one, what’s been a low moment, challenging moment do to push through and then on the flip side, what’s been a really proud moment for you? What’s been, um, especially challenging time that you had to push through.
Ed Clay 1:00:44
Yes, I mean, I think when we first opened ships, I mean, you know,
we all left our lives to do this. So I mean, in Nashville, I have a great life. My home. It’s called East IV mansion. And late I sold a Nashville mixed martial arts I had sold my clothing line is hanging back and left everything all my friends and family in Nashville to go live and try and getting the hospital open. For those six first six months was extremely terrible. We lived in the hospital because we want to know everything about running a hospital, everything from clean the toilets to properly cleaning the alarm room to cleaning the ICU. I mean, we’re a full service hospital now with over 200 employees. So I mean, it’s meant to do that, you know, we felt like we needed to know, everything. And, you know, really the first patients I’ve seen some sad things as far as, you know, patients dying. And that really took me you know, patients dying alone, you know, with no, no family family that night. I didn’t want to be with them. And so sitting with those patients at the end of their life, and you know, just Trying to, in a way express love during the end, you know, that was I get emotional talking about that is so deep people don’t even realize you know that impact that it can have on you like being with somebody dying but doesn’t have anybody and I think to myself, Oh my god having an ICU, let’s say they, you know, they’re not even paying like there’s we’re making sure they stay here. They don’t have friends or family there in the ICU, you know, how do you give them you know, let them die with some dignity. You know, and that those were some of the hardest times for me coming to terms with the importance of dying with dignity and dying with people around me, if it’s a disease at the end, I get a car wreck it’s different but like, I’m dying I don’t want to die alone. I’m and so that had a big impact on music. I think the can change you as a human being, I could probably have a whole podcast on the learnings of that actually just kind of thinking about it, bringing it back to those that moment those moments. Um, so yeah, that’s, those are the whenever I hear those stories of people being left by their families or whatever, um, that’s, that’s those are the hardest ones for for me. You know, because we really love people, you know, it’s like, you know, it’s heartbreaking. So that’s that. Gosh, that the best times are when we, when we get clear scans, I mean, which is all a lot, we get these clear scans from patients. And you know, someone comes in and you know, we see this it coming in a wheelchair, they leave walking, you’ve seen that over and over again, those are big, celebratory times. And it’s really it’s really like knowing in those moments that giving people more life and more time with their family. That is, yeah, that’s that’s priceless there as well.
Jeremy Weisz 1:04:08
What was a clear scam that maybe sticks out to you with? I don’t know if it was a special young person or a certain case that he thought, wow, that I can’t believe we actually accomplished it.
Ed Clay 1:04:21
Sure, yeah. I would say a lady named Charlotte trainer. She was actually a friend of the family. So anytime I have family members or friends, the family’s like, you know, it’s a little more personal, obviously. And so she didn’t do any lotos chemotherapy or anything. She was 72 years old, the doctor given her six months to 12 months to live with high dose chemotherapy at that age, which seems crazy. And she came in and we did some cryoablation to her original surgery site with the idea that she still would have tumor antigens there and those antigens would give antigen in presentation to the rest of body so if there was cancer in other parts the body it would theoretically eat it up. We crowd her liver as well she had met our liver we couldn’t get to the spot on her long or the spots are long and about I guess two months later says three week treatment no chemotherapy at all. Lots of immunotherapy Kohli’s big 5000 epitone and two and a half three months later completely clear scan and it’s a it was an October two years ago about two years and four months ago and she’s still alive today.
Jeremy Weisz 1:05:45
Wow. Add only the first one to thank you. Thanks for sharing this thanks for doing what you do everyone check out united cancer centers comm check out chips a hospital.org. Thanks again.
Ed Clay 1:05:58
Thank you so much. Thank you
