Sim Desai: 13:18
So obviously, you know, the change in quarterly rank is the first column, i.e. what was it ranked last quarter versus this quarter., obviously the name of the issuer price trend for the last three months based on actual trading data on the Hiive platform. So in other words, this is
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 13:33
Ripple Labs has the most current live orders on the platform.
Sim Desai: 13:36
Yes, it looks like it. Yeah. Yeah. And basically what this means is that, and then the current live orders is yeah, that’s the number of buy and sell orders live at this point in time. So these are actual customer orders on the platform for the stock, whether to buy or sell.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 13:54
How do you qualify as a buyer on the platform? I know not not everyone can just go on and you know, start trading.
Sim Desai: 14:04
Yeah. So the minimum threshold for entering our platform is so-called accredited investor status. Now, you know, I’m sure most of your audience will have heard of that term before and understand that it’s basically an income and wealth threshold. Now that said, actually the biggest number of our of our users by like, say volume or even a higher tier, which is called qualified purchasers, that is a higher wealth and income threshold, typically having a 5 million of, of investable assets or more., and then we also have, and those are the individual investor categories. Beyond that, we also have institutional investors. So institutional investors also account for. Probably, though, they account for a minority of the number of transactions they account for.
Probably a good percentage. You know, perhaps even 50% of our volume of our transaction volume, because they’re doing very large transactions and transactions on our platform could range anywhere from as small as 25,000 for an accredited investor all the way up to, you know, we’ve we’ve done a deal as large as 200 million, this year a single transaction. So, that would be a transaction between two large institutional investors. So quite a range of participants. But I would say compared to other platforms, like let’s say we’re a bit less retail, we’re more, we’re more biased towards the institutional side of the market with access for ultra ultra high net worth individuals who have, you know, significant risk tolerance.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 15:41
Because before they’re probably, okay, we need to invest this in the public stock market. Now talk about the phenomenon of the secondary market.
Sim Desai: 15:51
Yeah. So you know, that’s, this is something that effectively the secondary market, which is, and secondary just refers to resales of something that’s existing and so, you know, obviously the secondary market for public stock has existed for many decades. That’s just the stock market. The stock market is the secondary market for public stock. The secondary market for private stock actually really just came about for the first time, really around 15 years ago. And look, it existed before that, but not really in this, this shape or form, right in the form of a, a tradable market with where you could quote prices and brokers could quote prices without an extensive sales process, it started really with like Facebook and Twitter before they went public, and they both, both of those companies had sort of a quite extensive amount of trading before they went public. And then from there it grew as a phenomenon through the 20 teens.
And, you know, culminating in you know, today where you’ve got a very, you know, market of potentially as much as, you know, 50 or 100 billion annually of, of these venture backed company stocks, trading hands, exchange trading hands between investors, and, you know, that was the phenomenon that we really were really seeking to capitalize on with Hiive. Right. We wanted to create a centralized place where buyers and sellers could meet because what we observed was that while that market was growing quite rapidly, it was quite disjointed. And, you know, you had, lots of decentralized activity taking place., no clear market price. So the price you got was dependent, depended on who you talked to, and so on and so forth. So, our aim was to centralize all of that and bring rationality and efficiency to this market.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 17:47
So when you started the company, you raised money. And currently at this time you are fundraising right now. How do you decide, okay, we got to start fundraising again. Because I’m sure this just adds another like third job to all the work that you have to do.
Sim Desai: 18:05
Yeah. And so like, you know, our, we have a very lucky position to be quite a profitable business today. So we’re both growing quite rapidly. I think our year, we actually, we, we actually share our numbers publicly. I recently made a LinkedIn post sharing some of our latest numbers. Our growth has been year over year, well over 100%, but at the same time, and we expect to, well, eclipse 100 million in revenues this year, but at the same time, we’re quite profitable. So from our standpoint, a fundraise is more of like an offensive strategy rather than a defensive one we’re not trying to raise capital to to keep the lights on, or to keep the, you know, the, the, the engine, burning, with coal, we’re, we’re really trying to we’re trying to, we’re using capital to really pursue interesting growth opportunities.
And, those types of opportunities could be adding significantly more liquidity to our marketplace to improve the frequency of transactions. It could also involve, you know, acquisitions and strategic opportunities, so for us, we want to be, you know, though we are in a very healthy kind of financial position, we want to, we want to have the luxury of. You know, a significant war chest, in the event that opportunities arise as they come and as we do expect, we do expect a lot of sort of consolidation in this space. We do expect some kind of, there are going to be days of reckoning coming ahead. The market’s seen a lot of euphoria of late. And so it’s good to be well prepared for those kinds of scenarios.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 19:48
Right now we’re looking at Hiive Securities. You can go on, you can actually search browse companies right here. I have Hiive on here. So how if someone was wanting to, you know, get into the fundraising drive, would they just go to Hiive.com, assuming they’re obviously an accredited investor and go here, what would they, how would they participate?
Sim Desai: 20:10
Yeah. So yeah, this is obviously quite meta like looking up Hiive stock.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 20:14
Exactly. Right.
Sim Desai: 20:16
But.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 20:16
Why not? I mean, you have to eat your own dog food here.
Sim Desai: 20:18
That’s right, that’s right. So, the best way to do it is actually to sign up for the platform. So what you’re showing right here is our public website. You can’t invest from here. But if you sign up for the platform and get inside and what you have to do is you have to go to the Hiive page on the website or just add Hiive to your watch list. And, eventually you will, you’ll well happen, you’ll be notified of the investment opportunity as it comes up. And in terms of the primary fundraise, that is not currently open to individual investors, but, there is, secondary opportunities that are coming live, on the Hiive platform for Hiive stock, where individual investors can participate. And there’s, there’s, there’s some coming very soon. So, yeah, there is an opportunity to participate as an investor in Hiive. If people want.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 21:12
What is a strategic, I know, you know, with raising money, there’s many ways you could deploy the capital one could be with the strategic acquisition. What would that what do you look for? What’s the criteria for you for a strategic acquisition?
Sim Desai: 21:27
So like my mantra, you know, is strategically is to maximize liquidity in our marketplace. So I think that everything we do, is with the objective to bring to centralize capital flows through our platform. And so, you know, whether that is securing, issuer relationships so that they can offer their stock through our platform or it is, bringing new individual investors in or bringing new institutional investors in or bringing employees in. It is that’s always our, that’s our mantra. And so when we think about strategically, because, because we, we view that network effects as the source of all of our strength. And so as we, if we can continue to enhance network effects, we’ll be able to pursue even greater opportunities that, that everything else will follow.
Let’s say. So strategically when we think about like, what are the use of proceeds, acquisition targets? We’re thinking about what are the things, what are businesses or aggregations of assets or aggregations of activity that we could acquire to bring more liquidity to our platform. So, you know, those types of things, you know, without getting too much into the details about the types of things we’re looking for, but, you know, it would be, perhaps other marketplaces, perhaps, certain asset managers, who, and so on, other types of things that are tangential or that are connected with our, our ecosystem, other types of service providers and software businesses that are connected with the business that we do to help facilitate the infrastructure or transaction process. So yeah, there’s a range of potential targets.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 23:15
Yeah, just in case someone’s listening and, maybe you fit one of these categories. You know, there’s a lot of ways people obviously engage with the company and the platform. So I want to talk through, you know, when I was looking through the Hiive50, Kraken, talk about how they engage with Hiive.
Sim Desai: 23:36
Yeah. So Kraken is an interesting case. You know, there are certain companies that have a relatively free market for their stock. And, I think a lot of them have found that this is the easiest way for them to passively manage liquidity, because what they can do is they can let the stock trade freely on the platform and we handle the entire process. So the issuer themselves doesn’t really have to lift a finger. In the case of Kraken in particular, we have a relationship with them where we actually manage the secondary transactions for them exclusively. And what that means is any time there’s a proposed transfer, that transaction goes through our platform.
So whether that transaction is brokered by Hiive or brokered by any of our competitors, that transaction is then submitted through our platform for execution. So this is an arrangement we have with many companies now. I think it’s the ten different ten of the most actively traded companies work with us with this type of relationship where they we take the entire infrastructure and transaction process for this stuff off their hands. And they’re, they’re passive. They still approve the trades, they still monitor the transactions. They still have their roofers. We’ve just automated all of that stuff so that they don’t have to do the work.
And the only time they have to get involved is at the time it comes to make a specific decision. But beyond that, everything can be passive and they can actually go in our platform and manage like whatever they need to do, whether it is to see all of their historical transactions, monitor ongoing transactions, upcoming transactions, monitor the market for their stock, take actions like confirming that this transaction is approved, or that this transaction is being referred or what have you, they can do all of that in the platform without, without having to, you know, exchange a whole bunch of emails and all that stuff.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 25:37
Does this help? How does it affect employees?
Sim Desai: 25:43
I mean, it’s great for employees, right? This type of program, because it gives them a place where they can go to get this done, I think a lot of a lot of employees of these companies have lived with a lot of uncertainty around liquidity, right? They don’t, they don’t know how or where or when they can get liquidity for their stock., and they’re, even if there is a way to do it or it’s apparently allowed, they’re not sure how to do it. Right. And so because.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 26:13
Previously they would have to wait for the company to go public before they get anything. Right.
Sim Desai: 26:17
That’s right. Yeah. I mean, historically that was kind of how it happened. Now, I would say most companies are now offering liquidity in one shape or form, right., and so, but, but having a central platform through which to do that, where all the instructions are laid out for you, I think is a major unlock for employees. It just gives them. Yeah, it gives them the freedom to say, hey, okay, that’s no longer an issue. I know I have visibility and certainty around that process.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 26:43
I’m wondering, you know, how did the business model evolve when you first decided we’re starting Hiive till now?
Sim Desai: 26:52
Yeah. So it’s been quite a journey, when we first started, we did pursue effectively, call it a more of a bottom up approach. So we were really out there, you know, soliciting employees, investors, all kinds of folks about trading their stock. And so our initial go to market, we started, we, we had a lot of institutional relationships where, you know, we had these relationships who were able to give us bids for stock. And then we would, they would post those bids on our platform. And that’s what we would use to attract employee sellers because we could say, look, hey, there’s, there’s, there’s an interest in your stock. And so that became a virtuous cycle. Now in that process, we did ruffle some feathers because, you know, you can imagine you’re a private company management team and you’re kind of going, well, hey, what the hell is this?
Like, what’s going on here? How is my stock trading? You know, and so what we, we did do our best to engage with the issuer though, because you can’t the stock cannot trade without their approval. So even in those days, in the early on days, if we had a match, a proposed match, we would always go to the company to ask for approval., and often they would approve it and sometimes they wouldn’t., and they would say, look, we’re not allowing secondaries at this time and so on and so forth. But, you know, in the early days, it was more of a, ask for forgiveness, not permission, in terms of doing the stuff. Over time, we have really evolved and grown up to become a partner of the company increasingly so that we work with them to implement the program that they’re seeking based on their specific preferences. Some of them are happy with free trading.
Others want a very highly controlled program and periodic program or whatever. And so we’re working with them on a top down basis. But we would have never had the credibility to have that conversation had we not kind of gone to market in the first place. And, you know, this is like a pretty classic kind of marketplace, seeding a marketplace kind of playbook story. I think you’d find this, for example, the story of Uber to be quite analogous. It’s one of my favorite ones, you know, talking about individual cities where they were banned. And there were every number of reasons that you could give not to allow Ubers. And of course, now today, it seems like how is it possible that they could never have existed? There was a time when they didn’t exist, right. So.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 29:24
Airbnb probably has similar stories.
Sim Desai: 29:27
Yeah, exactly.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 29:28
Yeah. But I do see that, you know, that is a selling point from a company like, hey, you don’t have to wait for us to go public. You know, we, you can get liquidity on the actual, you know, stock that you’re getting in our company, right? And it is worth something because people are savvy. They’re like, well, I might have to wait ten years. I’m like, what are the odds that this, you know, company is going to go public? But now I can actually it, there’s real value to it, you know? Yeah. How does the approval work? So like, let’s say there’s a company assuming, you know, you work exclusively with companies, you’ve got it pre-approved. But if a company is not because any private company, I mean, can technically be trading on Hiive, someone invests and you go to the company. How does that approval process work?
Sim Desai: 30:17
Yeah. So what happens is you can’t consummate a trade without the company’s approval, whether or not we have a formal relationship with them, we have to go to them now. Sorry, I shouldn’t say that categorically is the case. There are some issuers where the bylaws don’t require approval for transfer. We don’t even in those cases, we don’t try to just go ahead and proceed with the transaction without involving the issuer. We’ll always go to them. We’ll always say, look, here’s a proposed transfer, you know, let us know next steps and so on and so forth. Or do you approve or not if they have an approval. Right. So what happens is on our platform is a buyer and a seller match.
And, then we take it to the company because there’s no point in, there’s not a lot of use in going to a company bringing up a potential sale when there’s no buyer, because you could, you’d have ten conversations for every one that you have when you go to them after the fact of a match. And so we go to them and, you know, they’re used to this process now, right? Like they understand that that’s how it works. We go to them with a proposed match, they approve or they don’t. We also know now which ones they’re going to approve and which ones are not. So we’re trying not to waste their time with transactions they won’t approve, if we know a company is categorically restrictive, we don’t allow, we don’t facilitate trading of their stock.
And we try to engage with them in other ways on different types of programs, but yeah, that’s how it always works is that there’s a provisional match between a buyer and a seller, and then we go to the issuer for approval. We have an entire team transaction services team of 20 people who all their entire job is managing the transaction from the match until closing and settlement. So that’s the team that manages those discussions with the issuer around, you know, approval around settlement, around tax withholdings, requirements around, fund flows, all the different things, legals and so on that need to go into closing a trade.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 32:13
Talk to me about Stripe for a, I’ll use an example of Stripe, right? Let’s say I’m like, Sim Stripe is great. We use Stripe a lot. You know, I want to buy Stripe, right? Go on your platform. You know, how does it work from there? I mean, assuming someone’s accredited investor, they go in, they buy X number of shares or whatever it is for a situation like Stripe do, then does it have to reach a certain amount and you have to go and get it approved? Or how does how does that work?
Sim Desai: 32:44
Yeah. So Stripe is one of those companies that is sort of in the call it the mushy middle, right. They are, they’re pretty restrictive., so there’s not a lot of free trading of common shares. What happens is most of the trading in Stripe is preferred stock. And so what that means is, and then stripe will periodically run a tender offer as well so that employees can get liquidity through a tender offer. And if you know, if Hiive can get an allocation in a tender offer, then we’ll share that with the individual investors potentially. But that’s really this. Realistically, the only time when individual investors.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 33:26
Have no chance was what you’re saying.
Sim Desai: 33:27
So it’s going to be tough unless you can. Right. You know. Let’s say a minimum $10 million check. It’s going to be trickier to get Stripe. Not saying that there won’t be an opportunity. They will from time to time, but it’s not something where you can just walk into the platform and be like, okay, here’s my check. I’m ready to buy Stripe. Yeah, it’s, it’s trickier than that for sure. Yeah. But then we see massive institutional deals on Stripe of like 100 million, 200 million. I mean, you see big, big deals, and that’s, that’s tends to be where most of the action takes place on a name like stripe.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 34:00
I do want to go back to, I do want to go to Perplexity for a second how that worked. But before we do, back to the, the business model piece, how do you decide how you make money? I know there’s like a percentage of transaction. How did you come up with that?
Sim Desai: 34:17
Yeah. I mean, look, there’s pretty established kind of market pricing for, transaction fees, in this market., I believe that, so we’re obviously benchmarking off that.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 34:30
Because it is a pretty young market. I mean, we’re only talking like 15 years, but.
Sim Desai: 34:34
That’s right, that’s right. And so, and I was in this business, I mean, I’ve been in this business for like 18 years now, but, so we, we benchmark off that. Now that said, I do believe that fees are too high still in this market. And I actually believe that fees are going to continue to compress. I think that we are sort of going to be victims of our own success in that regard, right? Because what happens is as you commoditize and automate something you do, it does become sort of tougher to sort of warrant high fees. And I, and I, it’s something we have our eye on constantly and something we do expect, fee compression to take place, over time..
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 35:17
Perplexity. Talk about that on Hiive.
Sim Desai: 35:21
Yeah. So Perplexity is another example of a company that’s, is like similar to Stripe, like quasi restrictive issuer who really wants to control the market, but does does sort of let, like, let’s say larger tranches of stock out into the market from time to time, either through secondary processes or primaries., we’ve participated in both primary and secondary offerings by perplexity., it’s one of something like 40 different companies where we, where Hiives own funds have invested directly with the issuer. And when we have our own fund that invests with the issuer, though it’s not a situation where there’s free trading, right? So Kraken and
Perplexity side by side on that list are two very different cases, right? Kraken has basically a freely traded market, whereas Perplexity has a pretty controlled market., and most of the distribution of perplexity opportunities happens through these fund vehicles, where investors are not taking direct stock in the, in the company, but yeah, I mean, we’ve had a number of, Perplexity offerings over time. We, we try to maintain a very positive relationship with the, with the company there and, you know, deliver useful outcomes for them. And that’s what enables us to then be able to offer these opportunities to investors.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 36:46
Yeah, it’s, it’s interesting. And as you’re talking, some people, you know, there is a video here. We’re at the Kraken stock one and you can see 99.5% all time in perplexity. I can’t even this number is so high 61,000% of all time.
Sim Desai: 37:03
Now here, here’s the here’s the but here’s the thing to remember Kraken is also up 60,000% or something from some level, right? Perplexity is a newer, a newer issuer on the platform. So we have a longer like we, our history goes further back with perplexity. If you look at Kraken here, like the starting point for the Kraken price, they were already a multi-billion dollar company at that point, right? So we only started keeping this price chart in January 2023. If Kraken’s price chart went back to 2021 or 2020, you would also see that same kind of degree of growth, right? So, we’re just talking about over the last few years, that’s the change.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 37:44
Yeah, I got you., another way people engage, obviously are, are venture funds. Do you want to talk about that? Maybe about Sapphire Ventures?
Sim Desai: 37:55
Yeah, sure. I mean, Sapphire is just an example of a, of a company, where, you know, we publicly disclose their name, their, you know, their, they provide a testimonial on our site. But, you know, obviously a top fund we work with, you know, most of the top funds out there. So you talk about brand names, you know, in the market, household names in the venture space, the vast majority of them have worked with Hiive have, have done a large transaction with us or work or a sale or a buyer from one time to another. So that that’s a that’s a slightly different model from our like higher frequency model, where we’re providing much more of like a kind of a white glove service to those types of firms, where, where we really work with them, in a bespoke way to get the outcome they’re looking for. But those transactions still all go through our platform. Ultimately, even though the institutional investor is getting, let’s say, a higher degree of service.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 38:54
So, I know you have a Co-founder in Sarah. How did you both meet?.
Sim Desai: 39:01
Well, we met Sarah and I met 20 some odd years ago. She’s actually my wife, yeah. Yeah, we met at a law firm where we were both, in Canada. You have this thing called Articling, which is basically your first year out of law school. We met. We met at a law firm about 20. I shouldn’t get it wrong, actually
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 39:23
But I had it engraved on my wedding ring so I could just, like, pull it off and take a look. Yeah, exactly.
Sim Desai: 39:30
I should probably do that., but 21 years ago and, and so we’ve, we’ve obviously known each other for a very long time. We we, we’ve had, we, we’ve had, we’ve been in business together prior to Hiive as well in completely different area of business. But, but yeah, so I, you know, when we, when we started Hiive and, you know, I was obviously the domain expert, but Sarah’s a real master kind of organizational and operational person. She’s also obviously an excellent lawyer. So she brought, pretty vast kind of swath of skills to the table to enable us to execute on this vision. And so, you know, when, when it came time to start Hiive, you know, she was really my first kind of port of call, you know, to have access to somebody that excellent, like, you know, the way I did, it’s something you don’t want to. You don’t want to. You want to squander that opportunity. So, yeah.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 40:30
Lessons or advice you have if someone’s working with their spouse that you’ve learned throughout the years?
Sim Desai: 40:37
Yeah. I feel like we haven’t, we haven’t learned enough lessons from, from everything we’ve done, you know, we, our lives are, are, are almost entirely. I mean, we have things, obviously we’ve got our kids, we, you know, there’s, there’s a lot of things that preoccupy us, but, when we’re speaking to each other, we basically speak, exclusively about the business. It’s probably not a very healthy thing.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 41:04
But listen, if you, if you love it, there’s no, no judgment. Yeah. Yeah.
Sim Desai: 41:08
I mean, there’s no end of topics and problems and challenges and people and so on to talk about, and so, that is basically all consuming for us, but, you know, in terms of lessons, you know, I don’t know, I would say that, it’s, you know, again, I, I can’t say I, I probably should have learned more lessons and she would probably say that there are some lessons I should have learned by now. And I keep thinking.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 41:34
Maybe we’ll have her on. Like, this whole episode is about the lessons Sim should have learned. From this business and being married to me.
Sim Desai: 41:45
Yeah.. Exactly.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 41:47
No. I’m curious. So if someone comes to you, one of your kids, and says, I want to be a lawyer. Right. Both of you come from that, but you don’t, you know, maybe practice in the traditional sense. Now what what advice do you have for them?
Sim Desai: 42:01
If they want to be lawyers? Yeah., I, I would tell them to probably think twice. Look, I, I think.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 42:09
It served you. So that’s why I’m asking, but obviously.
Sim Desai: 42:12
I mean, the legal profession. Here’s the thing, right? Like, it’s interesting, right? It’s interesting. I mean, there’s a bit of a tangent, but it’s interesting to see how this stuff is evolving, right? Like, I mean, you one might say that as a lawyer, you with the modern tools like. But, you know, we know that. I think anyone who’s an expert kind of knows that AI, in order to use AI effectively, you still, even in a particular domain, you still have to be an expert in that domain, right? So I do think that there will continue to be a lot of value in sort of like a lot of these professional services and lawyers too, but, you know, I think that the future is all about kind of value creation and entrepreneurship.
And I think that I think entrepreneurship is, is increasingly, it’s great to be a lawyer because it gives you a high degree of confidence around the particular domain when you’re navigating certain problems, contracts, agreements, litigation, whatever it is., but, I would say the highest pursuit professionally, in my opinion these days, and maybe I’m biased, is entrepreneurship., I think that, you know, people should be ambitious about, about creating anyone who wants to be a creator, should be pursuing entrepreneurship. Obviously you should build a foundation of expertise in some area, first. But, yeah, that let’s say that would be my advice to my kids.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 43:30
Last question. First of all, Sim, thank you. Thanks for sharing your knowledge, your lessons, your journey. People should check out Hiive, Hiive.com. My last question is just some of your favorite resources. It could be books. It could be podcasts, it could be mentors, whether distant, you don’t know them, but you’ve been following them or actual personal mentors in business. What are some of your resources?
Sim Desai: 43:53
Look, I’m, I’m, I’m notorious for not actually reading a whole lot these days, because I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m kind of obsessed with, with my business. I will say that as an entrepreneur, I’ll give you a kind of a little bit of a different answer than maybe you’ve heard from others. I will say that as an entrepreneur, the biggest resource you can have is getting intelligence on what your competitors are doing. And so one of my favorite things to do is literally just to scroll, scroll LinkedIn and, and find out every single one of my competitors being monitoring all of their feeds, their execs, and understanding every single partnership they’ve entered into.
Understanding what they’re saying about the market and where they see opportunity. And I’m sure that my competitors are exploiting my own LinkedIn the same way. But I try to intimidate them through my LinkedIn, to talk by talking about how well we’re doing. But, so yeah, I would say that that’s, that’s a, that’s, that’s a great resource is that social media, especially LinkedIn is such a, such a valuable resource for, for figuring out kind of where you’re situated in a competitive space, what other people are doing, really understanding what they’re doing and getting a lot of Intel about what you should be doing next. In fact, a lot of my ideas come from there.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 45:15
Are there conferences? Or things that you like to go to and from a resource perspective or.
Sim Desai: 45:19
Well, you know, I, I, I recently attended, the, so you know, the, the all in pod, they, they run a, they ran this year, I think it’s the, the fifth anniversary or something, this thing called the Liquidity Summit. I thought that was actually interesting for, for our space, I found it to be a really valuable experience to go to that, conference and just meet a whole bunch of people who were like very much interested in our space. So that was a good experience. I’m going back to one of their conferences in September actually. So yeah.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 45:52
I love it. Everyone check out Hiive.com to learn more. Check out more episodes of the podcast. We’ll see you next time, Sim. Thanks so much.
Sim Desai: 46:00
Thank you. Jeremy.
