John Corcoran 4:03

it’s really about breaking through all the noise that’s out there. If you’re reaching out to someone and you’re pitching yourself, I think what people don’t realize is that once you’ve been doing a podcast for a little while, you start really getting a lot of incoming solicitations from PR people from individuals from companies. And so you really have to break breakthrough break you know, kind of stand out and amongst all that noise How do you do it?

Jeremy Weisz 4:28

Yeah, I mean, the biggest thing that stands out with cold outreach and you’ll you can verify this or not, John because we get lots of emails incoming emails for for our shows, is personalization. You know, if someone emails me something personally, you can tell if someone looked at the show, they looked at the gas, they looked at me they looked at LinkedIn, sending something very personal cuts through the clutter, you know, least someone put some effort into it. And when I send outreach to people, same thing I look in, try and connect On a personal level with them and look at me or wherever they went to school where their jobs were anything,

John Corcoran 5:06

right? Yeah. So go. And I have to say that people, there are a lot of people that do kind of a lazy version of this. And it’s so formulaic, you can see it from a mile away. And it looks like this. I love your podcast, I particularly love that episode with insert most recent episode, like in the first line of the outreach message, and then pivot to I think this person would be a great guest on the podcast, and they immediately move into, you know, their client, you can tell very, you know, very, very quickly that that’s the real reason that they’re contacting you. So how would you do that better?

Jeremy Weisz 5:47

I mean, first, I’ll give credit to those people, at least they’re doing some personalization. So it’s true, you know, which is better than most. So even though I think I got one the other day, maybe last week, I can’t remember. But that they, they did do that. And I was like, it could have been formula could not, but I’ll give him credit for at least personalizing it. And

John Corcoran 6:08

or at least pick an episode that’s a little bit further into the archives, not just the most recent one that was that was published.

Jeremy Weisz 6:14

Yeah, I mean, what I would do is I would probably include that. And I would just look actually at their LinkedIn profile, and see something, connect with them and find something that stuck out. Because let’s say most people just did exactly what you said, john, you don’t want to do what most people are doing, which is just taking their podcast name and their recent episode. But most people like John I saw I used to live in, in Maryland, you know, actually, I went to Maryland and it snowed. That is something I mean, yeah, it’s no that day, everything shut down. I’m from Chicago. So I’m like, What’s going what’s wrong with people in Maryland, which actually happened? But, um, so something personal that’s maybe not on their podcast page?

John Corcoran 6:55

I think that is great advice. Yeah. And

Jeremy Weisz 6:57

the other thing is from the cold outreaches, you know, finding why you as a guest relates to, to their show. And finally, I saw you that these couple people actually, I could speak to this topic or something related to kind of pivoting into your story and why you’re a fit for the show. Right?

John Corcoran 7:17

Yeah, I agree. Yeah. And, and, you know, the savvy ones do that they, they customize it, they make you unique, or they listen to some actually listened to some episodes, and, you know, have a way of connecting it. So that’s option one. Option number two, is hiring someone to do it for you. Let’s talk about some of the pros and cons. Yeah.

Jeremy Weisz 7:38

I mean, you know, it’s funny, because you and I probably make five to 30 introductions every single day. And, you know, you can hire someone. Um, and and you when you’re hiring someone, you’re hiring them, because they probably already have an amazing network of people that they can reach out to, and they already know is this, they’ve already done the research on those shows, they already know if it’s a fit or not. So, you know, we’re a big, we’re a big advocate for hiring for someone’s skill set. And you’re not just saying, oh, it took them only a day to give me 10 podcasts, right. But really, it took them 10 years because they built up those relationships over a 10 year period. So yeah, maybe they get quick results for you. But it took them a long time to build those relationships. And same thing with us when people when we’re introducing others to say Oh, like, we may get them on, like a couple shows that they want to get on. It’s because we built relationships, and we see it as a fit for that guest. And with that show.

John Corcoran 8:38

So the really good podcast booking agencies have done a good job of that thinking through where it’s a fit, and they’re not going to recommend someone who’s not a good fit. They’re not doing spray and pray. Yeah,

Jeremy Weisz 8:48

it’s their reputation in the end, because if they set you up with someone Great, well, next time you email them, or they email you, then they know Okay, this was great. Last time, it’s going to be great again. So yeah, I think we’re, you know, hire for the specialization that you need. Because it shortcuts Yeah, it may cost you some money, but it shortcuts the process, it’s gonna save you a lot of time. Right? Right. So

John Corcoran 9:11

that’s option number one is cold outreach. Option number two is hiring someone to do it for you. Option number three, is to have your own podcast. And why would that help you to get on other podcasts

Jeremy Weisz 9:25

and people love? You know, John, we get this question a lot, which is, Jeremy, why would I have my own podcast? It’s so much easier just to go in other shows. Like I don’t have to do any preparation. I just show up. They do that, you know, they then you know, put it on all the platforms and everything like that. Why would I even bother to have my own show? It’s a great question. What do you say to people?

John Corcoran 9:48

I have a long answer to that. But the short version is when will one when you have your own show and you’re interviewing others, you have an unlimited list of people who you can connect with build a relationship with network lit with, you’re leveraging the principle reciprocity because you’re actually delivering value to them by giving them exposure, putting them on your show. Whereas if you’re only connecting with people by being a guest on other shows, you’re limited to the small universe of people who have a podcast, in terms of your networking strategy in terms of the people you’re building relationships with. And it’s also more in their hands.

Jeremy Weisz 10:23

Yeah, you’re exactly right, you’re limited to now your destiny is in their hands.

John Corcoran 10:29

Right. But I love both. Truthfully, I love having my own podcast, and I enjoy going on other shows as well. And the way that having your own podcast helps you get on other shows, is you can reciprocate with one another either direct reciprocation or you know, sometimes, you know, you might interview them, and then see if it’s a good fit for you to be a fit on their show. I was on one of the Shark Tank podcast A while back. And that’s the way that I did it. You know, I was on their show, or I had the the co host on my show. And then they reciprocated and had me on their show.

Jeremy Weisz 11:03

Yeah. So I like when the when you have control of your destiny, and you can, like you said, you have, you know, the whole pool of people that you can have on your show, but then you can also have people in you know, having another person who has a podcast is great, too, because, you know, when they have lots of connections, right? And when someone comes on my show, I say, Hey, I’m happy to introduce you to other people. Right? And that in you, you’re the same way. Yeah. And we we have them on, they’re kind of become I consider them a friend when they come on. And I’m happy to introduce them where it makes sense. Now we always do a double opt in intro. So it’s not, you know, imposing on someone else always ask them first. But it’s, the podcasts have a great network of people they know.

John Corcoran 11:51

Yeah, and it’s there’s also a shared camaraderie when I introduced two of my past guests to one another. Because there’s kind of a connection, I will often frequently give them the link to those episodes, so they can check it out. They can learn about one another before they hop on a call together. Alright, so that’s great. So then let’s also talk about how to be a good guest when you are on another show. And Jeremy has spent years as a senior producer for one of the early groundbreaking successful business podcasts helping prepare guests to be successful on that show. So talk a little bit about how to be a good guest.

Jeremy Weisz 12:30

Yeah, so there’s there’s two ways to how to be a great guest. And it’s during the show and after the song. So we’ll talk about during the show for a second. And during the show. It’s really simple. And you know this because of also yourself and your dad’s work in entertainment business, which is tell great stories, right? All good books, TV shows, movies, what we love about them is telling great stories. And that goes into thinking about if you are going to be a guest on podcast, think of some interesting stories that you can tell on that podcast in in not really be general, like real specific about that story, right? Because people will remember that real specific moment. And so it also could be I don’t know, if you want to go too controversial, but obviously, you know, something that’s a little bit different thought to the normal. And it’s also in the hands of the of the interviewer as well but make their job easier, right? Like when I had on Nolan Bushnell, like an example. You know, I did research on him. I don’t know if he was going to you know, come in and tell a bunch of he was one of you know, Steve Jobs as mentors Nolan Bushnell

John Corcoran 13:38

founder, founder of Atari and Chuck E. Cheese, Chuck E Cheese. Yeah,

Jeremy Weisz 13:42

so obviously did research. So I don’t know if he would have mentioned this otherwise, but he was one of Steve Jobs as mentors in in, in his book, which I listened to ahead of time, he talks about how Steve Jobs offered him $50,000 for 33% of apple. Okay, and maybe you would have brought it up? Maybe not, but I didn’t want to leave it to chance. So I asked him. Um, I know that he offered you 50,000 for 33% Why did you say no to that? And so if he had that story in his arsenal, you know, if you have something like certain interesting stories, bring it up, you know, anyways, and people will want to listen to that, like, Oh my God, that’s crazy. Or so think about what you maybe go through a timeline of your journey. And what has been kind of out of the ordinary crazy or what what’s a good story?

John Corcoran 14:38

Yeah. The other thing I want to say is that you want to really think about deliberately about what stories you want to tell because you can’t possibly share every nuance about your life. You’ve lived a full life and you’re a multi dimensional but most people are going on a podcast because they have something to promote a business. personal brand, a company something like that. So think about what’s the narrative that you want to put out there because it’s, it’s probably not the complete narrative. It’s not every nuance about your entire life, because some of them are, are just unrelated to that larger narrative. And so think about how those stories that you do tell, relate and reinforce the message. And the purpose of why you’re going on the podcast. I can’t emphasize that enough, because you hear people go on podcast, and they tell stories. You can, you can go on and you can have diarrhea of the mouth, and you can tell whatever stories, but it’s, it may not help to achieve the ultimate goal, the ultimate reason for doing it. Yeah, that’s a good, that’s

Jeremy Weisz 15:43

a good point.

John Corcoran 15:43

So let’s take the last piece. Last one we want to talk about is how to take it further. Okay, so we’ve talked about how to actually get on other podcasts, we talked about how to be a good guest. Now we’re talking about how to take it further. What are some things that you should do after the interview? Jeremy?

Jeremy Weisz 16:04

Yeah, I mean, taking it further also means being a great guest, and also means, you know, continuing that relationship with the host, hopefully, and, you know, the things are, you know, john, what makes a great guest for you after the show, it means they share it, they take it, they share it on LinkedIn, they share it on Facebook, they share it on their social channels, tag you in it, so that you can share it. I mean, we are doing those things also, right, we’re taking it and we’re posting about them, but when they’re sharing it and tagging other people to watch it and see it, and then putting it in there. If they have an email list, putting that in there and sending out to their email list. Hey, check it out. So, you know, it makes both of the energy and time of both those people go a lot further with putting on social media and emailing out. And that goes a long way. I mean, I don’t know. Not every guest is going to do those things. Surprisingly.

John Corcoran 17:01

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And it is so appreciated when you work really hard to create a podcast to interview someone to prepare beforehand, when they’re prepared. And then afterwards, they help you to promote it, they don’t just leave it on your shoulders. And then also, you’re just like any thoughtful individual, you think about what else can How can you be helpful to that person? Are there certain types of introductions of their certain types of guests, which be a good fit, that they could introduce you to? I think about those sorts of things, when I’m on, and then taking it even further, how can you take that relationship further? If it’s a fit? Of course, you know, not everyone is expected to click with everyone else. But if you find a good connection with that person, are there ways in which you can collaborate? Are there synergies between your businesses? Are there ways in which you know once as we get back into a world of the living where we’re interacting with one another, and physical spaces, again, you know, attending conferences and events and stuff like that? or traveling again, going to someone city? Can you meet up? Could you meet up and you know, and organize a dinner or attended dinner or go to the same conference? And then finally, just some wisdom, advice and wisdom? Is there anything else specific that you can do advice or wisdom that you can provide for that person? That’s another one.

Jeremy Weisz 18:20

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I’ve had guests, you have a guest that afterwards, they were so gracious, and I still remember those those guests. And they go, Oh, you know, here’s, you know, nine people that I think maybe I, you know, that are in my network, there’ll be really good for your show. And it’s also a gift for them, because then they can say to their friends, hey, I met Jeremy’s a super nice guy. And his show was fun to go on. And make an introduction there.

John Corcoran 18:50

Yeah, yeah. And finally, of course, if you’ve been a guest on someone else’s show, and you haven’t had that person, if you have your own show, and you haven’t had that person yet, on your show, invite them to be a guest on your show. Or if you don’t feel like it’s a good fit, perhaps you introduce them to someone else to another podcast, where it would be a fit. And I think it’s okay to say to people, to be honest, you know, you know, I don’t know if it’s the best fit for you to be on my podcast. However, I do appreciate you having me on mine, I mean, on yours. And I’d like to introduce you to someone else where you can appear on this other podcast where it would be a fit, I think that’s fair to say.

Jeremy Weisz 19:32

Yeah, I mean, we’re all focused on different things at different times, and the types of companies and guests so it may not be a fit now, but maybe a fit in the future. So

John Corcoran 19:42

yeah. Final thoughts, Jeremy on how to get more exposure by appearing on other podcasts?

Jeremy Weisz 19:51

No, I think I think we hit all the points. I mean, really, it is about giving to the other individual and it’s about showing up the best you can For that show and just put yourself in their shoes, and if you were them what what do you want? You’d want someone to come on that was fantastic storyteller and then also to promote it afterwards. Right,

John Corcoran 20:11

right. Final shout out for Scott Anderson and Doubledare Executive Coaching. Speaking of podcast guest Scott and I first connected he was a guest on my podcast, and has shared lots of great wisdom with us. And if you’re looking for an experienced coach, he’s been in the trenches as an entrepreneur, helping you to break through business plateaus, Scott Anderson and Doubledare Executive Coaching, offer really a proven system for scaling your life, your business, he has 30 plus years experience as a proven entrepreneur started over a half dozen companies also has a master’s degree in clinical counseling. I really don’t know anyone who’s got that quite that background of experience really amazing. Check out Doubledareyou.us that’s Doubledareyou.us. They’ve got a quick online assessment there and you can schedule a free business blueprint from Scott. And finally, Jeremy, where can people go learn more about us and Rise25?

Jeremy Weisz 21:07

Yeah, they can go to Rise25.com check out more. There’s a video there. We talk about podcasting. And you could always email us if you have questions about anything related to podcasting, and you could check out more episodes of Smart Business Revolution. He’s got some great archives and then Inspired Insider as well.

John Corcoran 21:26

And [email protected] That’s the email. Thanks everyone. Have a great day.