Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 17:27
Talk about the evolution of the product a little bit. I know you mentioned a little bit, you know, first generation. Second generation of the product and third generation and just run us through really quickly. What did the first generation look like? And second, and then we can talk about I know with the third there’s a lot of, you know, predictive stuff built into it.
Ben Dixon: 17:48
Sure. Well, if you think about how you make decisions, I think one of the most important thing we can think about in referral marketing is the type of data you look at, right? And a lot of people who want to open a referral marketing channel for the business go right to just getting a CRM or like an affiliate platform. And they’re thinking about tracking transactions, right? So it’s enrollments, cancellations, subscriptions, payments, commissions. And that’s what a first-gen system is. And there’s lots of first gen systems in the marketplace. There’s a ton of different ways to track transactions and track commissions. Nothing special about that anymore and that. But that’s what a first-gen system is. Second-gen systems help you go deeper into your pipeline.
They track the leading indicators, right? The things that create transactions in your world for you. If you’re an insurance company, it might be people having breakfast together because you’re selling them whole life insurance. Or it could be popping on a one on one zoom or. Or maybe it’s someone coming to your lunch and learn, right? So you have these activities that are a leading indicator to someone making a purchase decision, right? And second-gen systems track those right there. Tools like CRM, landing pages, webinar platforms, video email tools. They track all the things that are happening before the purchase. And when I first jumped in at Naxum.com, we were a second-gen system already, right? We were building first and second-generation platforms.
Third-generation technology is really unique and interesting. On our website under the products, it would be the predictive action technology. And what third, these predictive mobile apps and what third-gen tech does is it allows you to get information that you never had access to before. So predictive mobile technology allows you to track the activities your salespeople are doing on their devices without them reporting them to you. So it’s not about someone like filling out a, you know, a CRM or dutifully taking notes inside of a system. Third-gen tech. It will actually track the phone calls, the text messages, the shares on social media that your staff are doing on their devices for your business so that you can track which ones actually got something to a website, or which ones got someone to the webinar, which ones got someone to the breakfast meeting? And then of course later you’re going to track commissions. And it’s interesting, when we first built the third-gen platform, and even today, we’re still the only commercially available group that does this type of technology in the space.
That probably won’t be the case. Jeremy. In six months, a year time, there’s been other groups wanting to build third gen tech, but we’ve been blessed to say the last five years we’ve had it kind of to ourselves in the in the sense that in the referral marketing space, we’re the only one that does the third gen stuff, and it’s created some really great opportunities, a easy way to think about it for the listeners. If you think about platforms like Noom or MyFitnessPal. Okay, I don’t know if any of you guys have done Noom or MyFitnessPal. Maybe to gain muscle or lose weight. Okay. I’m married, I have three kids that are under nine, and I’m a very supportive husband. I’ve gained just as much weight as my wife every time we’ve had a baby. I don’t know if you’ve experienced that, Jeremy, in your life, but I’ve gained £40 along with my wife every time we have a child. She. My wife’s an athlete. She did gymnastics at NIU, so she loses her weight instantly as she breastfeeds the children.
I have to compete with my friends at church, over at Christ Community, on my on my app of how much calories or food or water I drink each day with MyFitnessPal, right? And that’s how I lose my dad weight every time we have a kid, right? For the next year, right? So that the same way you compete and win the day on MyFitnessPal is how we crack the code on sales organizations. Well, if salespeople like whether you’re at — think of different direct selling companies, like a Pampered Chef in town, right where they commit to daily habits or someone would commit to, I’m going to reach out to this many people each day. I’m going to follow up with this many. I’m going to spend this much time growing my mindset or my skill set. I’m going to share on social media twice today. And when they commit to daily habits, we make the interfaces all about did you win the day or not? But you take away the self-reporting part in software. The key is that they shouldn’t just be marking boxes of yeah, yeah, yeah, I won the day. That doesn’t count, Jeremy. Self-reporting doesn’t count.
Use predictive tools to track them actually doing it. Don’t have them tell you they did it right. And that’s what’s really special is we’re able to pull a ton of data of not what people say they’re doing, but what they’re actually doing to promote our brands. And that’s where you get the win. And the math is wild. One of the things I’ll share with you that I’ve shared, we have a study we published with the Direct Selling Executives Forum that I serve as the chair of. It’s an industry group of a couple hundred direct selling executives. And we’ve shared that if you can just remove 20% of the waste in your sales pipeline in a referral marketing channel based on benchmarks of our industry, if you just make it 20% more efficient, you actually double your revenue per sales rep, so it doesn’t take some huge win to swing for the fences to have a big impact in referral marketing in your channel. Right.
If you can, if you make the decision of, okay, we’re going to go do a referral marketing channel and we’re going to do it like this. But then if you can use tools where you remove 20% of the waste, of how many reach outs to follow-ups, to demos, to buys, it takes, you now have double the income per sales rep. And that’s where companies really start to win and shine.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 22:55
But I wanted to dig into some use cases. But before we do, one thing that stuck out to me is there was a time where you’re like, I was doing stuff, nothing was working, and then things started working. What have you found? I don’t know if there was like some things you started implementing at that point. You said, obviously you’re following a system. What were some things that worked for you in selling.
Ben Dixon: 23:24
So originally when I first got into selling, I, I, I thought I would reinvent the wheel. Right. And what that meant is I had all these ideas of I was going to hack my way to success, and they were the wrong target audience, is what it was. At the end of the day. I didn’t see it at the time. I didn’t have the maturity to see it at the time, but a lot of people waste a lot of time in selling because there’s talking to the wrong person. So one of the things that I think is really important to understand is if your product creates value in the marketplace. Okay. So I’m not talking about selling a rock pet or something on eBay. That was just some weird, you know, social media phenomenon. But if you have a product that actually creates real value in the marketplace, okay, think about who’s the person that was down on their knees this morning saying, Dear God, I, I need X to solve this challenge in my life.
Like the desperate person, the person who has pain in their life that your product is the solution to. Right? And how can you go meet that person each day, right? I have a series of questions when I speak on stage for larger sales organizations, when they’re using our CRMs and our platforms that I walk people through who struggle with identifying their target audience. And the questions are these three simple questions. And if we have time, Jeremy, I can walk us through them. Because it’s good stuff. So what’s motivating that person? If you think about the person who prayed today, Dear God, I need a solution to this challenge, right? Are they motivated by pain or pleasure? What do you think, Jeremy? Is that pain or pleasure motivating that person who’s praying?
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 24:45
Pain.
Ben Dixon: 24:46
It’s usually pain every time. So now ask yourself, what pains does this person have? So if we’re selling a let’s just talk about a GOP. One’s a popular light-weight loss all over America today, right? Is a weight loss product kind of the trend of last year, right, from a bunch of our clients. So if you’re trying to sell people how to lose weight, what pains? Well, you know, what caused you to be someone who wants to lose weight, right? Maybe you don’t feel sexy. You’re slow. You can’t keep up with your kids at soccer practice. You don’t have energy anymore, right? Well, your doctor told you you’re going to die if you don’t do something about it, right? You go down the list and you just identify the pains. And. But here’s the magic question. Question three is where it is. Jeremy.
I’ll give it to you. And you guys can use this at 525. Use it. Use it wherever it says. What do people who have these pains, the ones we just listed. Okay. Not feeling sexy, not enough energy. Sluggish, right. Already do to solve them. So there’s a bit of a trick in the question. What do they already do to solve them. So there’s an assumption. There’s an assumption that there’s two types of people. And this is the part that I missed when I was 18 and first got into sales. There’s this one person who says, I have this pain, but it’s not my fault. So I know I’m sluggish and I can’t keep up with the kids, but it’s not my fault that I call that person the couch potato. Not in an insulting way.
They’re the person who’s not taking accountability. They’re not going to do anything about it anyway, even if there was a solution. So why would you spend your time with that person? Even if they were educated, they’re not going to do it because they’re not going to take accountability. But then there’s the second person in the assumption who’s the sprinter? And the sprinter says, oh, I know I have this pain, but by God, I’m doing X to solve it, right? I’m. I’m doing this workout program. I’m doing this diet program. I’m. I’m taking action in this way. And that’s the person you want to talk to you because they’re the one that if they heard about your solution, whether you’re selling insurance or you’re selling weight loss or you’re selling clothing, whatever you’re selling, right? That’s the person that if they knew you existed, they would be like, oh my gosh, I would love to try it like I’ve been.
I’m taking action right now, getting that part of my life better. Right. And that’s the person to spend time with. And so it’s not to be rude or anything else. It’s just like, go spend time with people who value you. It’s like what we teach our kids when they’re at school, right? It’s like, hey, your peer group of friends, the people who value you, not the people who think you’re an idiot, like, go, go spend time with the people who value you. Even relationships in our life, like we all want to do that, right? Jeremy? At a deeper level. Yeah.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 27:07
Thanks for sharing that. That’s really instructive. And it makes perfect sense. But sometimes the things are, you know, obvious. They’re not so obvious, right? They’re just those little subtleties that make a big difference. So thanks for pointing that out. You know, there’s some misconceptions around how people choose to leverage referral marketing. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Ben Dixon: 27:35
Yeah. Yeah I would love to. This is a kind of a pet peeve of mine, I think many times. When you say referral marketing, someone’s mind goes immediately to like either the extreme of like just an affiliate program where, okay, we’re gonna have these affiliates out here just sharing links off a blog or shoots over to influencers. Okay. There’s are there people on TikTok or Instagram or talk about me or it goes to this other far extreme. On the other side, that would be like MLM, right? Like multi-level marketing, network marketing. A lot of those words are party plan marketing of okay, do we create some kind of a downline program where we’re not only incentivizing selling products, but we’re also incentivizing recruiting others to sell products? And what you have to realize is referral marketing can look like a lot of different things to a lot of different people.
So instead of thinking about the mode of how you compensate or why you compensate. There’s usually two reasons you’re compensating referral marketing. You’re either looking for introductions that become customers or introductions that become resellers. Right. And there’s a spectrum of different types of referral marketing programs. None of them are bad or evil, right? If they are, don’t do it. Right. Don’t do the evil bad ones. Don’t go to jail. That’s a horrible idea in business, right? Do things that honor God and do good things in your world. So there’s this spectrum. First of what you want to reward. Are you gathering customers first or are you gathering salespeople for us? And that’s the difference between an affiliate program that might pay one level that has zero incentives to refer other affiliates versus like a network marketing concept where, hey, you earn the majority of money if you’re the one making the sales, but hey, you can earn an override if you refer someone else. If you think about traditional bigger businesses here in town, Keller Williams Real Estate is a seven-level multi-level marketing program, Exit Realty, here in town.
The Canadian company is a two-level affiliate program. Basically. Hey, you make the majority of commissions yourself and you get a 10% override if you refer someone else who’s a realtor in our group. Right. So traditional businesses do multiple level multi-level marketing to all the time in the area. But the bigger part to think about referral marketing, I think most people miss to your question, Jeremy, is this is right for whom. Right. So you might think of your retail customers and you might have an incentive. If you have a subscription of hey, refer three of your friends and yours is free, right? Well, that’s referral marketing, right? Some of you. The answer to what referral marketing channels should we have in our life is we should tell our customers that subscribe for chiropractic adjustments a month that refer three friends who are also getting chiropractic adjustments a month.
And we and we just stopped billing your credit card for every month, three of your friends pay for their adjustments for a month. We don’t bill your credit card for the following month, and as long as they keep doing that and three of your friends do it, you get free adjustments for life. Okay, that’s one model. That’s customer rewards programs. And there’s a whole science to different customer rewards programs. And what gets wild about this and fun is you can stack these things right. You may in your business. We could go down the line of we were joking about weight loss earlier, but if you’re if you have a weight loss program that works for people, maybe you do a nutritional cleanse. I have a couple clients doing these nutritional cleanse programs, right. Their customers can refer other customers, and they can get their box of product for free next month because they did that. But they also have affiliates, right?
They pay commissions. So if someone’s a super fan, they might become an affiliate at that nutritional plan company and earn commissions for referring other people to their program. That’s traditional. But then there’s a non-traditional approach that a lot of people miss today that’s very popular. The fastest-growing niche in America today is the professional business opportunity space. And a lot of people don’t realize this. The pain in America is underemployed. Business professionals, you’re missing a lot of people miss this. There is a lot of business professionals, millions who want to earn more money but don’t want to build a new network, and they miss out on this. This is the big niche is we call them certified reseller programs. But if you have a physical product or distribution, you can go sign up for one of these programs and be and take a course and be trained. It’s usually 100 bucks, 200 bucks, and you’re now a certified reseller for that brand, and you’re likely onboarding businesses to that brand.
So if we go back to the weight loss example, maybe you’re now selling not to humans, your weight loss product, maybe you’re selling to chiropractors and they’re buying it wholesale and they’re selling to the humans or med spas and such. And so what’s funny about these different referral channels is and what’s cool about them is we have clients who do three, sometimes four of these different channels all in the same SaaS stack, like all in the exact same enterprise software platform. So within the same infrastructure, you might have retail customers referring friends for three minutes free. You might have affiliates earning commissions throughout their shared on TikTok and Instagram, and then you might have a training course for the super passionate superfans who want to sell the businesses that are certified resellers that are out there onboarding businesses who are buying wholesale inside of a wholesale shopping cart.
And so you can actually stack multiple referral marketing channels. And they’re not right for everybody. But this one is really right for this niche of people who talk to people this way. And this one’s really good for professional business opportunity, folks who are looking to partner with us in this different way. But instead of it being discombobulated and, you know, you’re trying to track all these three separate CRMs or three separate plugins to your Shopify store on these, all these other platforms. Why not have them all in one, one enterprise system? And that’s really where Naxum.com has evolved to today. And it didn’t start there. But that’s where we’ve come to Jeremy is solving that unique problem has been where we win the most.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 33:02
And I’d love to hear some of your favorite examples. And it could be companies you work with for referral programs, could be companies you work with or just ones you’ve seen in the wild. I mean, you’re exactly right. You know, we use gusto as our kind of like payment platform to staff. And, you know, they actually make it easy, you know, like, oh, I forgot what it is. It’s maybe a couple hundred dollars, you know, to refer someone. I mean, we often refer because we like it, but, you know, it’s an extra incentive if you’re like, okay, I’ll make a couple dollars doing it. What are some of your favorite examples that you work with or that you’ve just seen out in the wild?
Ben Dixon: 33:42
I’ll give you a good one from to. I’m going to rewind nine years. We’ll go 2016. This was a cool one, just because they were a four-year-old referral marketing company. They had an MLM-style pay plan and they were selling education on how to trade the markets. So they had these live trainers. You could subscribe and you could watch people trade euros for US dollars. It wasn’t crypto or anything. It was all US dollar-like trading yen, euros, US dollar stuff. And they were a tiny company. They were doing under six figures a month in revenue. Four years old. And what they did that was so cool when we onboarded them in August of 2016, is we ended up building two key things we did a refer to in its free program.
They were just a simple $150 a month style subscription, and so people would subscribe to their education and go trade. But they told those retail customers, hey, if you like this education, share it with your friends. And if two of them subscribe, yours is free, right? And we built the billing system for that. Where hey, if Jeremy’s referred to waive Jeremy’s bill next month, and then if those people pay again, waive it again. If they pay it again, waive it again. Oh, one of them misses a payment bill. Jeremy’s card. Right. And we just automatically did that right, which was really cool. But what was neat is they had then a referral program where if you had referred a third person, you now made money. So it was this really natural lead-in as someone was a fan of the brand. Like if you were a fan of the brand, of course you’re going to refer to your friends, but then you realize once you’ve referred to this notification of, oh, would you like to become one of our brand ambassadors and earn money.
And what do I owe? Well, what do I have to do to do that? Oh, refer one more. Well, you’ve already referred to so. And there were people who ended up referring thousands. That group in just two years grew to over 200,000 members of that network. And they went from under $100,000 a month to under $1 million a year to 10 million a month at the end of that first year. And they grew by 10 million a month per year for six years in a row. It’s a wild story. And so I it it’s those types of projects where I say they did a really good job of allowing someone to experience their products and their brand, and if they were a fan, get it for free. And then if they were a super fan, hey, come earn money with us as a brand ambassador. And it built an amazing channel for that education company. And I can talk about in the wild I’ll pick on Code Cloud is an interesting example.
So Code Cloud one of my clients runs the group Bright Marketer. Org. If you check out Bright Marketer org, it’s like educational courses for people who want to sell, like SEO or pay per click or freelance like different freelance marketing skills to local businesses. Right? And Matt Guevara, who owns that, is someone I’ve known my whole life. He’s my client there. And what Matt used to run the email marketing for Code Cloud. So Code Cloud was not one of my clients. They teach DevOps programming courses. Is this and this is a brand marketer.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 36:30
Okay. Gotcha.
Ben Dixon: 36:31
That’s his company today. That’s Matt’s hand. There you go. That’s back of Matt’s head. There you go. He’s this great guy here out of Rockford, Illinois. I’ve known Matt since we were little kids. Really good guy. And their organization does a referral marketing program for their students to refer other customers inside of their space. But what Matt did at Code Cloud, I thought was so interesting, is when people would finish courses at Code Cloud. Code cloud was not SaaS. It was like a pay ten bucks for this course, pay 15 bucks for that course type setup where bright marketers, more people spending 200, 150 bucks a month to kind of all you can eat, you know, courses. But at Code Cloud what they did is they did certifications Fortifications with a platform called Credly and its out of Pearson Education. And what’s so cool about it is people would take classes, they would earn these certifications and they would earn them. It would share them on their LinkedIn profiles.
And so their viral growth that they would track is like a key performance indicator of how they’re growing their business. And bright does the same thing. They’re partnered with Credly as well. But what both of these brands do is people end up earning these badges for finishing courses, and they share them on LinkedIn, and their friends are like, oh, that’s cool. And then some of their friends are like, oh, I want to get that badge too. And so they go sign up for their education programs and take the course. And so it’s like referral virally on LinkedIn for badges, right. Of all the things, Jeremy. And so I just want to encourage people referral marketing can look way different than many of us think right is. I mean, Code Cloud grew to over 400,000 members of badges being shared on LinkedIn and other engineers seeing their engineer friends learning DevOps basics 201 and then saying, oh, I want to learn that too. And then signing up for iCloud and paying ten bucks and taking the course and doing it. So once again, I think a lot of us prejudge what referral marketing can look like.
And if you want to explore referral marketing for a channel, I just meet with people who have built a lot of them, you know, and I’m humbled by the projects I’ve been invited to participate in. And it’s amazing to see what’s possible. And a lot of times you’re facing something as a business owner that you think is only you. And yet there’s dozens of people who have faced it before. And so I would encourage your listeners to never be in despair, always be curious and go be willing to learn about a niche, because it may just have exactly what you were missing to accelerate what you’re wanting to go.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 38:49
Yeah. And, Ben, thanks for bringing this to light. You know, when I was checking out your LinkedIn, your website, this stuck out to me. If people are looking at this as we love to inspire and reward billions of businesses souls to gamify. But what sticks out with that story is the gamify part, right? Really what they did with the badges is they really gamified, created a gamification of the action that they wanted people to do, which is to finish the course and get the badge right.
Ben Dixon: 39:18
Yep, that’s exactly it.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 39:20
What else in there in this as are maybe me missed the first time around. Just seeing this on your LinkedIn profile or on your website.
Ben Dixon: 39:28
Sure.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 39:30
Talk about this image that we’re looking at here.
Ben Dixon: 39:33
The biggest. Yeah. The biggest part of the why is understanding why you do it. This actually came from my own story. Selling real estate seminars. Right, is I love the idea that someone can be passionate about something. So I was a little kid. I was really passionate about real estate. But you can be passionate about something, and referral marketing allows you to be a super fan and actually earn an income from referring whatever it is you’re passionate about. So whether you’re passionate about cooking and you’re promoting Pampered Chef out of Addison, Illinois, you know, and you’re selling, you know, pizza, stones and knives to your friends or Cutco, right? Aldi Leonardo CEO Unesco spoke on my show. Nevada, who’s the CEO of pampered, has spoken on my show. In the DSF. Right. What referral marketing does is it allows you to it allows you to share products you care about and earn from it. And that’s what the magic power of referral marketing is, is you didn’t invent it, you didn’t ship it, you didn’t manufacture it.
Whether it was a product or a service, you just shared something you had a great experience with, with somebody else, and you earned from that. That’s really special. And it was a big part of our story. Like, if I didn’t have those four years as a referral marketer before getting into the vendor side of the space, I want to be here like I’m here because of how it changed my family’s life. We were just young kids from a farm community south of Rockford, you know, outside of kind of middle of nowhere Ville, Illinois. There were 200 people in our town growing up. Jeremy, like, I didn’t know any of this stuff was possible as a young kid. And if you would ask me, what is God’s plan in your life, I would have no idea. This would be the direction of the last three decades, right? In my world. And I was blown away by what was possible and how fast it was possible. And so it all takes hard work and you got to still show up and do the work. But it’s a powerful vehicle to allow your fans to promote you in a special way. That’s what I think a lot of people should look at.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 41:24
I want to dig into the weeds a little bit about some use cases and how people are actually using Knac.com. I don’t know which one you want to start with. I know we talked about Pampered Chef John Hancock. You know, the.
Ben Dixon: 41:41
Oh, the life.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 41:41
Life insurance. And then I markets live. Which one do you think would be good to highlight.
Ben Dixon: 41:47
Well so earlier we talked about the referral marketing that was I markets life was the education company with the two for free. So and we’ve briefly spoke about Pampered Chef as a model to think about. So let’s think about John Hancock Insurance. I think this is a good unique one. Insurance companies historically are very conservative about what can be posted on social media to promote. So if you’re someone who’s a trained person in real estate or trained in insurance, right, you may be in a, you may be selling in a very highly regulated world. And one of the things we did for their brand, they have a brand called FinFET life down at Madison, 500 down at the Accenture Tower here downtown where?
Where Jeremy and I live. Right. And what they did is they created a predictive mobile app with our technology where they gave done-for-you social media content to all their agents. But what they did that was unique is we’re not just having them post, you know, corporate videos that are not going to engage anyone. But you’ve probably seen this on your own Instagram feed or LinkedIn, all these reaction videos, right. And the people reacting. Well, the other videos over here. Well, the reason we do that is because the social networks ghost us if we don’t. So I’ll give you an example. One of my clients for years is a company called Tastefully Simple out of Minnesota. They sell spices and jams and jellies, and we sell hundreds of millions of dollars of them each year. And we would share recipes on social media, and people would buy our jams and jellies.
But if we had 10,000 women share the same recipe card on the same day, it would all get ghosted and no one would see it. And so we needed a way to co-create on social media, but yet stay compliant. And so what we did at the insurance company is that’s so smart, is you end up creating videos about how to be your own bank with whole life insurance that are compliant, right? Not just your salespeople making them up, but you load them into your predictive engine and then you have your sales reps react to them. And so your sales reps are out there just saying next to your compliant content. And now with 10,000 agents, share the same video on the same day. TikTok, LinkedIn, Facebook all say, oh well, that one’s unique, that one has Jeremy’s face and that one has Ben’s face. And oh wow, That one’s different than the other one, even though you’re reacting to the same video.
And so it’s been really cool stuff like that. And then we get all the data on the back end of exactly which social posts people shared, which ones they didn’t, which ones got people to leave social and come to the website which ones didn’t. And that’s where predictive stuff just helps you make better decisions at the end of the day. And running one of these channels and doing it efficiently.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 44:19
No, I love that. Those are I mean, I watch those on YouTube anyways. You’re like, they could be the same click of Bill Burr’s comedy. And I may watch like two different it’s the same comedy but two different people commenting. It is interesting how people take on it. So. Yeah, totally. Yeah. You know, thanks for sharing that.
Ben Dixon: 44:40
You got it.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 44:41
Ideal clients for you who are ideal customers for you.
Ben Dixon: 44:45
It’s the people. Yeah. An ideal customers are people who want an army of ten, 99 people promoting their offers. And so when I say an army there’s a ton of solutions. If you’re going to have ten salespeople sitting in your office or ten independent folks, you’re probably not the right fit for an action as a platform. We’re not built for those smaller groups, but if you plan to have 1000, ten, 99 people and up in your world, and you might have zero today, and that’s okay if you have zero today. But if you know that, like you want to have a thousand, right? You’re zero today and you want to have a thousand, then talk to us because we’d be the right fit.
Then if groups who want to have 10 to 20 salespeople, there’s a gazillion solutions from go high level to Salesforce.com to all kinds of other platforms, you can grab for small sales teams, and you get into a lot of really dynamic challenges as soon as you get to hundreds and thousands of salespeople. Some of our clients have as many as 700,000 salespeople promoting a product. So you have to think about that for a second. You’re like, oh my gosh, there are 50 countries and all that. Yes. And so it gets pretty complicated, right, of what to do to support that.
But if you’re like, yeah, for our brand, we could see having a thousand referral partners and up. Yeah, it’s worth meeting with our team, going through discovery session, exploring what types of solutions are right for you. And we’re very hands-on as a group. We host clients here in Chicago all the time for their production. We know that software projects can be tough. And so we’re super hands on in how we help and how we host workshops and how we make sure people execute well. And so that’s part’s exciting, but.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 46:17
Sounds like.
Ben Dixon: 46:17
It could be.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 46:19
It could be. Axiom. Sorry, Maxim, you said it sounds like it could be B2B. There’s B2B companies. There’s also B2C companies as well.
Ben Dixon: 46:31
There is. Yeah, we serve both.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 46:33
Got it. I have one last question, Ben. First of all, thanks for walking through the journey. This has been really instructive. You got it. One last question is your favorite resources. And now it could be books. It could be software. I know you mentioned The SPEED of Trust. I know you mentioned sure. Base camp, I know I’ve heard you talk in videos about loving the book Traction with Gino Wickman. What are some of your favorite other books and software that people should check out?
Ben Dixon: 47:06
Yeah. So today if you’re selling solutions, so if you already mentioned Gino Wickman, if you’re running operations of a company and you’re under 40 million a year in sales, check out Gino Wickman’s work with Traction. It’s a book I hand out to business owners at church and friends and everyone in the community. I think it’s a great place to start if you are selling. We talked about the selling stuff earlier today. The problem solution selling that we were all taught years ago is not resonating today at all in enterprise sales. If you’re in selling two great books, you can check out our Matt Dixon’s work. So same last name as me.
He’s not my cousin, not my brother. But Matthew Dixon runs The Challenger Sale and The Challenger Customer. It’s about 28 hours long of audio books, but he will help you create a playbook with key insights to engage and sell your target audience that I believe is very valuable. So if I wanted to share kind of a recent one, I get to 3 or 4 books a month. But Matt Dickson’s work is what I would invite you guys to dig into deep. If you haven’t yet, Challenger Sale and Challenger Customer read both. Okay. In order and do that and you’ll be blessed. But, Jeremy, I want to say thank you so much for having me out here today. It was a total treat to be on the show and looking forward to our relationship and getting a chance to meet you more. It’s good to connect.
Dr. Jeremy Weisz: 48:23
Love it. I want to encourage everyone to check out naxum.com you can check out Naxum.com and more episodes of the podcast and we’ll see everyone next time. Ben, thanks so much.
